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Re: AN2.1.1 Vajja Sutta (1/1)

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  • rjkjp1
    -Dear Yong Peng I see. Unfortunately I think you are veering in a dangerous direction. WE are lost in view, hence the Dhamma is not about about interpreting
    Message 1 of 49 , Mar 5, 2007
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      -Dear Yong Peng
      I see. Unfortunately I think you are veering in a dangerous
      direction.
      WE are lost in view, hence the Dhamma is not about about interpreting
      suttas depending on our feeling about what they mean, if we do so we
      are giving full rein to deeply held wrong views that are innate to
      all worldlings.
      Even scholars in the PTS understand the neccessity of relying on
      Atthakathaa.
      IB Horner writes
      ""The prime object of every Commentary is to make the meanings of the
      words and
      phrases in the canonical passages it is elucidating abundantly clear,
      definite, definitive even....This is to preserve the Teachings of the
      Buddha as nearly as possible in the sense intended, and as conveyed
      by the succession of teachers, acariyaparama. Always there were
      detractors, always there were and still are "improvers" ready with
      their own notions. Through friends and enemies alike deleterous
      change and deterioration in the word of the Buddha might intervene
      for an indefinite length of time. The Commentaries are the armour and
      protection against such an eventuality. AS they hold a unique
      position as preservers and interpreters of true Dhamma, it is
      essential not only to follow them carefully and adopt the meaning
      they ascribe to a word or phrase each time they commnet on it. They
      are as closed now as is the Pali canon. No aditions to their corpus
      or subtractions from it are to contemplated, and no commentary
      written in later days could be included in it.""endquote Horner.
      pxiii Clarifier of the Sweet Meaning" PAli Text Society 1978.

      As for the Kalama sutta note what the Kalamas said after the Buddha
      finished his discourse:

      @@@Magnificent, lord! Magnificent! Just as if he were to place
      upright what was overturned, to reveal what was hidden, to show the
      way to one who was lost, or to carry a lamp into the dark so that
      those with eyes could see forms, in the same way has the Blessed One —
      through many lines of reasoning — made the Dhamma clear. We go to
      the Blessed One for refuge, to the Dhamma, and to the Sangha of
      monks. May the Blessed One remember us as lay followers who have gone
      to him for refuge, from this day forward, for life."
      I think you will find no references to these same kalamas doubting
      or disagreeing with the Dhamma after this first meeting.
      Robert



      In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng" <pali.smith@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Robert,
      >
      > thanks. There are two points I like to raise here.
      >
      > 1. As Buddha mentioned in the Kalama sutta on how we should exercise
      > proper examination on the suttas ourselves, the commentary can be
      > taken as the result of that exercise by someone before us. Of
      course,
      > we can always use it as a guide or reference, but ultimately the
      > understanding of the Buddha's teachings depends on ourselves.
      >
      > 2. The commentary explains the teachings. It may use a phrase for a
      > word, a sentence for a phrase, a paragraph for a sentence, to
      achieve
      > that. Or, it may omit a section of the text completely, as it sees
      > fit. Therefore, incorporating the commentary into a translation is
      not
      > advisable. Furthermore, by changing a word, a translator may have to
      > change a sentence; by changing a sentence, he may have to alter a
      > paragraph; by altering a paragraph, he may have to rewrite the
      sutta.
      >
      > We have to remember that we are translating the sutta, not writing
      > what we think the sutta is about. Both have their own merits, but
      are
      > completely different.
      >
      > metta,
      > Yong Peng.
      >
      >
      > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, rjkjp1 wrote:
      >
      > I see, I thought your earlier meant we don't need to take account
      of
      > the Commentaries explanation of the meaning, now I understand.
      >
      > > Allow me to explain my position by replying to your first
      > > two sentences.
      >
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear friends, according to our plans, we will be having a sutta translation exercise next weekend. The exercise will go on as planned. We will be working
      Message 49 of 49 , Jun 30, 2007
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        Dear friends,

        according to our plans, we will be having a sutta translation exercise
        next weekend. The exercise will go on as planned. We will be working
        through three suttas from AN2, namely,

        AN2.1.2 Padhaana Sutta
        AN2.1.3 Tapaniiya Sutta
        AN2.1.4 Atapaniiya Sutta

        Since these are three individual suttas, I will be posting them in
        three separate mails, rather than one. I shall look forward to your
        participation then.

        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ong Yong Peng wrote:

        as planned, we begin with our translation exercise of AN2.
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