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Onderwerp: [Pali] AN2.1.1 Vajja Sutta (1/1)

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear Yong Peng, this is part 2. ... Katama~nca, bhikkhave, di.t.thadhammika.m vajja.m? which-and / monks / belonging to this world / fault And, monks, which is
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 22, 2007
      Dear Yong Peng,
      this is part 2.
      --------
      Katama~nca, bhikkhave, di.t.thadhammika.m vajja.m?
      which-and / monks / belonging to this world / fault
      And, monks, which is the fault associating with this world?
      --------

      N: affecting the present life?

      ----------

      Idha, bhikkhave, ekacco passati cora.m aagucaari.m raajaano gahetvaa
      vividhaa kammakaara.naa kaarente;
      here / monks / one / sees / robber / commiting offence / rulers /
      having held / several / punishments / imposing
      Here, monks, one sees the rulers, having held a robber commiting
      offence, imposing several punishments:

      ----------

      N: PTS has: rulers, without article, seems better.

      ----------


      hatthampi chindante, paadampi chindante, hatthapaadampi chindante,
      ka.n.nampi chindante, naasampi chindante, ka.n.nanaasampi chindante,
      hand and / cutting / foot and / cutting / hand and foot and / cutting
      / ear and / cutting / nose and / cutting / ear and nose and / cutting
      cutting hand, cutting foot, cutting hand and foot, cutting ear,
      cutting nose, cutting ear and nose

      ------
      N: using the possessive seems better: his hand, his foot, etc.

      ----------

      bila`ngathaalikampi karonte, sa`nkhamu.n.dikampi karonte,
      raahumukhampi karonte, jotimaalikampi karonte, hatthapajjotikampi
      karonte, erakavattikampi karonte, ciirakavaasikampi karonte,
      'gruel pot' (torture) and / executing / 'shell tonsure' (torture) and
      / executing / 'mouth of Rahu' (torture) and / executing / 'fiery
      garland' (torture) and / executing / 'torching hand' (torture) and /
      executing / 'hay twist' (torture) and / executing / 'bark dress'
      (torture) and / executing
      executing the 'gruel pot' torture, executing the 'shell tonsure'
      torture, executing the 'mouth of Rahu' torture, executing the 'fiery
      garland' torture, executing the 'torching hand' torture, executing the
      'hay twist' torture, executing the 'bark dress' torture,

      * bila`ngathaalikaa (f) 'gruel pot' torture.

      -------

      N: PTS in footnote: Co explains that the top of the skull is cut off
      and that theyput in a red hot iron ball.

      ------------
      * sa`nkhamu.n.dika (?) 'shell tonsure' torture.
      - sa`nkha (m) shell, conch.
      - mu.n.dika (adj) bare.

      --------

      N: mu.n.da is bald, shaven. Footnote: sandpapering the scalp with
      gravel until it is as smooth as a seasshell (sa�nkha).

      --------------
      * raahumukha (n) 'mouth of Rahu' torture.
      - raahu (name) Raahu.

      -------

      N: Raahu swallowed the moon. They opened the mouth and put in oil and
      a wick and lit it.

      ----------
      * jotimaalika (?) 'fiery garland' torture.

      --------

      N: maala is garland. the -ika endings make it into an adjective.
      These describe the kinds of punishments.

      Co: the body was smeared with oil and set afire.

      -----------
      * hatthapajjotika (?) 'torching hand' torture.

      --------

      N: the hand was made into a torch and set afire.

      ---------
      * erakavattika (n) 'hay twist' torture [PTS].
      - eraka (adj) driving away, moving.
      - vatta (n) mouth.

      --------

      N: vatta is unsure. Co: the skin was flayed from the neck downwards
      and tied into a band by which he was hung up.

      -----------
      * ciirakavaasika (?) 'bark dress' torture [PTS].
      - ciiraka (m) bark.
      - vaasika (adj) living in.
      -------

      N: Here: vaasa is clothing.

      ---------
      e.neyyakampi karonte, ba.lisama.msikampi karonte, kahaapa.nikampi
      karonte, khaaraapatacchikampi karonte, palighaparivattikampi karonte,
      palaalapii.thakampi karonte,
      'antelope' (torture) and / executing / 'flesh hooking' (torture) and /
      executing / 'disc-slice' (torture) and / executing / 'pickling
      process' (torture) and / executing / 'circling the pin' (torture) and
      / executing / 'straw mattress' (torture) and / executing
      executing the 'antelope' torture, executing the 'flesh hooking'
      torture, executing the 'disc-slice' torture, executing the 'pickling
      process' torture, executing the 'cicling the pin' torture, executing
      the 'straw mattress' torture,

      -------

      N: typo: circling the pin

      --------

      * e.neyyaka (n) 'antelope' torture [PTS].
      * ba.lisama.msika (m) 'flesh hooking' torture [PTS].
      - ba.lisa (n) fish-hook.
      - ma.msika (m) meat-vendor.
      * kahaapa.nika (?) 'disc-slice' torture [PTS].

      ---------

      N: kahaapa.na is a coin. Co: discs of flesh of the size of a coin
      were cut off him.

      ----------

      * khaaraapatacchika (?) 'pickling process' torture [PTS].
      - khaara (m) alkaline substance.
      - aapatacchika ???

      ---------

      N: PED: apatacchika: a kind of torture. Also pa.ticchaka is mentioned
      under khaara: receiving. It is unclear.
      ---------

      * palighaparivattika (?) 'circling the pin' torture [PTS].
      - paligha (m) crossbar.
      - parivatta (adj) twisting, turning.

      ----------

      N: PED: turning round of the bar, a spike driven from ear to ear and
      then he is pinned to the ground.

      -----------
      * palaalapii.thaka (m) 'straw mattress' torture [PTS].
      - palaala (m/n) straw.
      - pii.thaka (m) chair, stool.

      -------

      N: pii.thaka. The body was beaten until it was as limp as a
      strawmattress.

      ----------

      tattenapi telena osi~ncante, sunakhehipi khaadaapente, jiivantampi
      suule uttaasente, asinaapi siisa.m chindante.
      by heated and / by oil / pouring over / dogs (caus.) and / making ...
      eat / living and / on stake / terrifying / with sword and / head /
      cutting
      pouring heated oil over (him), making dogs eat (him), terrifying (him)
      on the stake (while) living, and cutting (his) head with a sword.

      ----------

      N: Pouring also...(pi)

      uttaasita: impaled. Impaling him alive on a stake

      *********

      Nina.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Dear Yong Peng, this is part 3. ... Katama~nca, bhikkhave, samparaayika.m vajja.m? which / monks / belonging to the next world / fault Which is the fault
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 6, 2007
        Dear Yong Peng,
        this is part 3.

        ----------------------------------------------------------

        "Katama~nca, bhikkhave, samparaayika.m vajja.m?
        which / monks / belonging to the next world / fault
        "Which is the fault associating to the next world, monks?

        ------

        N: For the English, I think: which is a fault...

        --------



        'kaayaduccaritassa kho pana paapako dukkho vipaako abhisamparaaya.m,
        vaciiduccaritassa paapako dukkho vipaako abhisamparaaya.m,
        manoduccaritassa paapako dukkho vipaako abhisamparaaya.m.
        'The effect of unwholesome bodily action in the future (is) bad and
        unpleasant, the effect of unwholesome verbal action in the future (is)
        bad and unpleasant, the effect of unwholesome mental action in the
        future (is) bad and unpleasant.

        ----------

        N: In connection with kamma, vipaako can be translated as result.

        -------

        Aha~nceva kho pana kaayena duccarita.m careyya.m, vaacaaya duccarita.m
        careyya.m, manasaa duccarita.m careyya.m.
        Indeed, even if I would do unwholesome action with the body myself, if
        I would do unwholesome action with words myself, if I would do
        unwholesome with the mind myself.

        Ki~nca ta.m yaaha.m na kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa apaaya.m
        duggati.m vinipaata.m niraya.m upapajjeyyan'ti.
        And what (is) that which I myself would not be reborn in a state of
        woe, a realm of misery, a place of suffering, a hell, after the
        dissolution of the body and after death?'

        * ki~nca = ki.m ca.
        - ki.m (pron) what?

        ---------

        N: Warder, p. 74: ki.m is used as indeclinable, to make the sentence
        interrogative. Would I myself not be reborn...?

        * yaaha.m = ya aha.m.

        ta.m ya aha.m: in PED ta.m can be used adverbially (under ta): then,
        therefore.

        ya, in PED: emphatic use is possible.

        ---------

        Nina.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Nina van Gorkom
        Dear Yong Peng, this is part 4. ... In the Thai Pali version, there is: for; Ki~nca ta.m yenaaha.m instead of yaaha.m. the Co suggests: yena aha.m. by which
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 15, 2007
          Dear Yong Peng,
          this is part 4.
          ----------
          In the Thai Pali version, there is: for; Ki~nca ta.m yenaaha.m
          instead of yaaha.m.

          the Co suggests: yena aha.m. by which I...

          There are different manuscripts and once Jim suggested to compare
          different manuscripts, at least five, when undertaking a translation.

          ----------
          So samparaayikassa vajjassa bhiito kaayaduccarita.m pahaaya
          kaayasucarita.m bhaaveti, vaciiduccarita.m pahaaya vaciisucarita.m
          bhaaveti, manoduccarita.m pahaaya manosucarita.m bhaaveti, suddha.m
          attaana.m pariharati.

          Y.P.: Frightened of the fault associating with the next world, he
          abandons
          unwholesome bodily action and pursues wholesome bodily action,
          abandons unwholesome verbal action and pursues wholesome verbal
          action, abandons unwholesome mental action and pursues wholesome
          mental action, (and) maintains himself purified.

          -------

          N: Suggestion: Frightened of the wrongs affecting life in the
          future... he maintains a purified conduct.

          -------


          Ida.m vuccati, bhikkhave, samparaayika.m vajja.m.
          this / is called / monks / belong to the next world / fault
          Monks, this is called the fault associating with the next world.

          "Imaani kho, bhikkhave, dve vajjaani.
          these / indeed / monks / two / faults
          "Indeed, these (are) the two faults, monks.

          Tasmaatiha, bhikkhave, eva.m sikkhitabba.m�
          from him-here / monks / thus / should be learned
          Monks, here, (it) should be learned from him thus:

          ------

          N: Therefore , monks, you should train yourself thus:

          ----------
          Y.P.:'di.t.thadhammikassa vajjassa bhaayissaama, samparaayikassa
          vajjassa
          bhaayissaama, vajjabhiiruno bhavissaama vajjabhayadassaavino'ti.
          of belonging to this world / of fault / (we) should be afraid / of
          belonging to the next world / of fault / (we) should be afraid / ??? /
          (we) should become / those who know fear of faults
          'We should fear fault associating with this world, we should fear
          fault associating with the next world, (as) those who know fear of
          faults we should become ???.'

          -------

          N: We should fear wrongs affecting this life, affecting a future
          life, we should become those who fear wrongs and see the danger of
          wrongs.

          (should become, bhaavissaama, is omitted here)


          Eva~nhi vo, bhikkhave, sikkhitabba.m.
          thus-surely / by you / monks / should be learned
          Surely, monks, (it) should be learned by you thus.

          --------

          Vajjabhiiruno, bhikkhave, vajjabhayadassaavino eta.m paa.tika`nkha.m
          ya.m parimuccissati sabbavajjehii"ti.
          ??? / monks / those who know fear of faults / this / is expected /
          which / will be released / from all faults
          Monks, it is expected that (as) those who know fear of faults, ???
          will be released from all faults."

          --------

          N: vajjabhayadassaavino: a bahubbiihi, with suffix -in, in the dative
          (Warder: p 122).

          For the person who fears wrongs, who sees the danger of wrongs, it is
          expected that he will be released from all faults.

          (eta.m...ya.m: .literally: this is expected which.) The Co. suggests
          that ya.m is a nipaata: an indeclinable (Warder: p. 355). Merely
          emphatic or with vague meaning.

          -----------

          Remark: the Co. elaborates on purity of conduct: the ariyan disciple
          takes refuge (in the Triple Gem), observes five or ten precepts,
          observes the four purities of siila (parisuddhisiila: restraint
          according to the pa.timokkha, restraint of the sense faculties,
          purity of livelihood, siila regarding the four requisites). Further
          by the attainment of the ruupa-jhaanas and aruupa-jhaanas, by the the
          attainment of the four Paths.

          The noble disicple is free from faults by the four Paths and the four
          Fruitions.

          -----------
          Nina.




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