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Origin of Pali and mother tongue of lord Budha

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  • rasoolpuri
    What is origin of Pali Is its origin is Magadhi or it is a pidgen language which was create by Budh scholars for writing of Lord Budha s education What was
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 16, 2006
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      What is origin of Pali
      Is its origin is Magadhi or it is a pidgen language which was create
      by Budh scholars for writing of Lord Budha's education

      What was the mother tongue of lord Budha
    • johnny pruitt
      I have always heard that it was a pigeon language put together by Buddhist scholars. I also have wondered how the accentuation sounded. Since some words look
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 17, 2006
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        I have always heard that it was a pigeon language put together by Buddhist scholars. I also have wondered how the accentuation sounded. Since some words look identical or very similar I wonder if the language had a pitch accent.
        rasoolpuri <rasoolpuri@...> wrote:
        What is origin of Pali
        Is its origin is Magadhi or it is a pidgen language which was create
        by Budh scholars for writing of Lord Budha's education

        What was the mother tongue of lord Budha





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      • Gunnar Gällmo
        ... You mean pidgin language, don t you? Pigeons don t speak pidgin. Anyhow, I think the term is not correct here. I think pidgin languages are generally not
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 18, 2006
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          --- johnny pruitt <mahasacham@...> skrev:

          > I have always heard that it was a pigeon language
          > put together by Buddhist scholars.

          You mean pidgin language, don't you? Pigeons don't
          speak pidgin.

          Anyhow, I think the term is not correct here. I think
          pidgin languages are generally not made by scholars,
          but appear more or less spontaneously when needed, and
          primarily not for the sake of philosophical
          discussions but for more practical purposes.

          An example is South Chinese English Pidgin, mainly
          used for commercial purpuses, which I think consisted
          of English words put together according to Chinese
          syntax, as the South Chinese dialects were too
          different to be mutually understandable.

          Another example is "Russenorsk", used during contacts
          between Norwegian and Russian fishermen; the
          Norwegians thought they were speaking Russian, the
          Russians thought they were speaking Norwegian, but
          actually it was about half of each.

          When a pidgin language becomes established, such as
          Tok Pisin ("Talk Pidgin") in New Guinea, it is not
          called a pidgin language any more, but a creole
          language.

          If Pali was actually put together by scholars, it
          would be better to call it a planned language than a
          pidgin language. Actually, any written language with
          some kind of grammatical norms is more or less
          planned.

          In Europe, there have been some ideas to create a
          perfectly logical language for philosophical purpuses,
          a so called "a-priorical planned language", where all
          categories of human thought are put in a kind of
          logical grid. These plans have failed, for two
          reasons: human thought is not very logical, and no one
          ever managed to memorise those vocabularies.

          There has been better success for som "a-posteriorical
          planned languages", such as Esperanto, where grammar
          is made as logical as humanly possible (which is not
          100%), while the vocabulary is taken from the dominant
          languages, especially words that are common to them -
          meaning quite a lot of Latin.

          According to some theories, Pali was constructed in a
          way somewhat similar to Esperanto, which may be an
          exaggeration. For one thing, Esperanto was initiated
          to serve all purposes of a human language, while Pali
          is used "only" for the Dhamma - there is no secular
          use of Pali to speak of.

          And for another, the base for Pali seems to have been
          only one or a few contemporary variants of Prakrit.
          Forms from Sanskrit, which was much more standardized
          than Prakrit, were avoided.

          Gunnar







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        • johnny pruitt
          Whoops meant to say pidgen language rasoolpuri wrote: What is origin of Pali Is its origin is Magadhi or it is a pidgen
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 18, 2006
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            Whoops meant to say pidgen language

            rasoolpuri <rasoolpuri@...> wrote: What is origin of Pali
            Is its origin is Magadhi or it is a pidgen language which was create
            by Budh scholars for writing of Lord Budha's education

            What was the mother tongue of lord Budha





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          • Dmytro O. Ivakhnenko
            Hello, ... It s origin is Magadhi. Not Magadhi of Asokan edicts (third century b.c.), but the earlier Ardha-Magadhi. See:
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 18, 2006
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              Hello,

              > What is origin of Pali
              > Is its origin is Magadhi

              It's origin is Magadhi. Not Magadhi of Asokan edicts (third century
              b.c.), but the earlier Ardha-Magadhi.

              See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magadhi_Prakrit

              You can find an interesting discussion at:
              http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=21867

              > or it is a pidgen language which was create
              > by Budh scholars for writing of Lord Budha's education

              Pali evolved with time, and one can find in the Pali Canon the early
              stratas with archaic word forms, and the later stratas with stylized
              grammar. So scholars contributed to the evolution of Pali.

              It's interesting that the word forms that evolved later did not find
              their way in the earlier texts. For example, the later evolved form
              'kilesa' is not found in the Sutta-pitaka. In Sutta one can find only
              the early form 'upakkilesa'.

              > What was the mother tongue of lord Budha

              It was a language very similar to Pali.

              The language preserved in Jain texts, Aredha-Magadhi
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_Prakrit
              which was spoken in about the same area at the same time, is very
              similar to Pali.

              Metta, Dmytro
            • thomaslaw03
              ... I heard in Japan that a similar form of Pali is spoken in some area of India, but I am not sure whether it is true. Also, a group of people in Nepal claims
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 18, 2006
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                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Gunnar Gällmo <gunnargallmo@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > ... there is no secular use of Pali to speak of.
                >

                I heard in Japan that a similar form of Pali is spoken in some area of
                India, but I am not sure whether it is true.

                Also, a group of people in Nepal claims that they belong to the same
                clan of the Buddha. I know this from the Buddhist Channel. Maybe their
                language is the same language of the Buddha.

                Thomas Law
              • Jacques Huynen
                There are 2 ethnic groups claiming descendance from the Buddha in Nepal: the Newars and a subgroup from them, namely the Sakyas; both speak - beside Nepali
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 19, 2006
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                  There are 2 ethnic groups claiming descendance from
                  the Buddha in Nepal: the Newars and a subgroup from
                  them, namely the Sakyas; both speak - beside Nepali
                  that is related to other contemporary Indian prakrits
                  like Hindi - a sino-tibetan tonal language.

                  With Metta


                  --- thomaslaw03 <thomaslaw03@...> wrote:

                  > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Gunnar Gällmo
                  > <gunnargallmo@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ... there is no secular use of Pali to speak of.
                  > >
                  >
                  > I heard in Japan that a similar form of Pali is
                  > spoken in some area of
                  > India, but I am not sure whether it is true.
                  >
                  > Also, a group of people in Nepal claims that they
                  > belong to the same
                  > clan of the Buddha. I know this from the Buddhist
                  > Channel. Maybe their
                  > language is the same language of the Buddha.
                  >
                  > Thomas Law
                  >
                  >
                  >


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                • Dmytro O. Ivakhnenko
                  Hello Thomas, ... You probably mean the article http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=39,3056,0,0,1,0 There s also a Newar Shakya (goldsmith) caste.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 20, 2006
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                    Hello Thomas,

                    > Also, a group of people in Nepal claims that they belong to the same
                    > clan of the Buddha. I know this from the Buddhist Channel. Maybe their
                    > language is the same language of the Buddha.

                    You probably mean the article
                    http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=39,3056,0,0,1,0

                    There's also a Newar Shakya (goldsmith) caste.
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newar_Caste

                    Metta, Dmytro
                  • rasoolpuri
                    Thanks all freinds for your help about origin of Pali and language ofLord Budha. ... Buddhist scholars. I also have wondered how the accentuation sounded.
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 20, 2006
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                      Thanks all freinds for your help about origin of Pali and language
                      ofLord Budha.



                      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, johnny pruitt <mahasacham@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I have always heard that it was a pigeon language put together by
                      Buddhist scholars. I also have wondered how the accentuation sounded.
                      Since some words look identical or very similar I wonder if the
                      language had a pitch accent.
                      > rasoolpuri <rasoolpuri@...> wrote:
                      > What is origin of Pali
                      > Is its origin is Magadhi or it is a pidgen language which was create
                      > by Budh scholars for writing of Lord Budha's education
                      >
                      > What was the mother tongue of lord Budha
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
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