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Re: The Meaning of dhamma 11.

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  • Jim Anderson
    My previous reply wasn t the one I thought I d posted to the group. This is my second attempt. --Jim ... Dear Nina, The sata.m in sata~nca is not an
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 9 7:44 AM
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      My previous reply wasn't the one I thought I'd posted to the group.
      This is my second attempt. --Jim

      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

      > <"Sata~nca dhammo na jara.m upetii"ti ettha nibbaane vattati.
      > In the passage "And true dhamma is not susceptible to decay", here
      > dhamma means nibbaana...>

      Dear Nina,

      The "sata.m" in "sata~nca" is not an adjective in the same case
      as "dhammo". It is a genitive plural noun form of "sant" and should
      be translated as "of the true ones". So, "true dhamma" should be "the
      dhamma of the true ones" or the "the true ones' dhamma. This is made
      clear with "santaana.m" in the commentary below on Dhp 151:

      "Sata~ncaati buddhaadiina.m pana santaana.m navavidho lokuttaradhammo
      ca kiñci upaghaata.m na upetiiti na jara.m upeti naama."
      --Dhp-a III 123

      Best wishes,
      Jim
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Dear Jim, thank you very much. I shall make another corrected post of meaning of dhamma, no 11. I had some trouble with sata.m and thought of neutre: the
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 9 11:19 AM
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        Dear Jim,
        thank you very much. I shall make another corrected post of meaning
        of dhamma, no 11.
        I had some trouble with sata.m and thought of neutre: the truth. But
        the co. says: it means santaana.m. I looked up Warder, p. 169.
        gacha.m , partic. in -ant. Still, the form is rather strange: sata.m
        =santaana.m
        Nina.

        Op 9-jul-2006, om 16:44 heeft Jim Anderson het volgende geschreven:
        >
        > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
        >
        > > <"Sata~nca dhammo na jara.m upetii"ti ettha nibbaane vattati.
        > > In the passage "And true dhamma is not susceptible to decay", here
        > > dhamma means nibbaana...>
        >
        > Dear Nina,
        >
        > The "sata.m" in "sata~nca" is not an adjective in the same case
        > as "dhammo". It is a genitive plural noun form of "sant" and should
        > be translated as "of the true ones". So, "true dhamma" should be "the
        > dhamma of the true ones" or the "the true ones' dhamma. This is made
        > clear with "santaana.m" in the commentary below on Dhp 151:
        >
        > "Sata~ncaati buddhaadiina.m pana santaana.m navavidho lokuttaradhammo
        > ca kiñci upaghaata.m na upetiiti na jara.m upeti naama."
        > --Dhp-a III 123
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Khemaramsi
        Dear friends Following is a important passage for vipassana practice. I was confused by the compound bahiddhaabhaavasaama~n~nato . If you would help to
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 17 3:00 AM
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          Dear friends

          Following is a important passage for vipassana practice. I was confused by the compound 'bahiddhaabhaavasaama~n~nato '. If you would help to translate this difficult passage, it will be very much appreciated.

          Tasmaa sasantaanagate sabbadhamme parasantaanagate ca tesa.m santaanavibhaaga.m akatvaa bahiddhaabhaavasaama~n~nato sammasana.m, aya.m saavakaana.m sammasanacaaro.

          Majjhimanikyaya-tika II 274 (CSCD)

          with much metta

          Tzungkuen


          Sotthi te hotu sabbadaa 願幸福永遠伴隨您May there always be happiness for you
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        • Nina van Gorkom
          Dear Tzungkuen, please could you give the Majjh text of the sutta itself? Then I can look at the Co. in Thai, Nina. ... [Non-text portions of this message have
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 18 5:56 AM
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            Dear Tzungkuen,
            please could you give the Majjh text of the sutta itself? Then I can
            look at the Co. in Thai,
            Nina.
            Op 17-jul-2006, om 12:00 heeft Khemaramsi het volgende geschreven:

            > Dear friends
            >
            > Following is a important passage for vipassana practice. I was
            > confused by the compound 'bahiddhaabhaavasaama~n~nato '. If you
            > would help to translate this difficult passage, it will be very
            > much appreciated.
            >
            >
            > .
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Khemaramsi
            Dear Nina Many thanks for your kind help. The tika passage in question is to explain the word ¡¥ekadesameva¡¦ in Uparipannasa-atthakatha (about Thai
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 18 8:16 AM
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              Dear Nina

              Many thanks for your kind help.
              The tika passage in question is to explain the word ‘ekadesameva’ in Uparipannasa-atthakatha (about Thai edition vol.3 p.494, I guess) . And the whole Atthakatha passage where ‘ekadesameva’ appears is to explain the word ‘anupadadhammavipassanaa’ in Anupadasutta.

              Actually yesterday I got Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi’s translation. I am now trying to understand it . Please let me know your comment after you read the thai translation.


              Tika passage

              Tasmaa sasantaanagate sabbadhamme parasantaanagate ca tesa.m santaanavibhaaga.m akatvaa bahiddhaabhaavasaama~n~nato sammasana.m, aya.m saavakaana.m sammasanacaaro.

              Following is Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi’s reply to me.
              ----------------------
              I admit I find the passage somewhat unclear. This is how I take the passage:

              "… Therefore, this is the sphere of comprehension for disciples: all dhammas that come within their own [personal life] continuity and [the personal life] continuities of others, comprehension of them not involving a distinction between them by way of [personal life] continuity because of the similarity of those [marked by] externality."

              Comment: The point seems to be that disciples comprehend all dhammas (five aggregates)--their own and those of others--together without distinguishing whether they are their own or those of others. "bahiddhàbhàva" is "externality" or "external nature" rather than "external existence." The suffix "-bhàva" is somewhat like English "-ness" or "-ship," the state or character implied by the previous term of the compound, in this case "bahiddhà" = external; hence "externality" or "external-ness." The "dhammas" are said to be similar with regard to their externality. I think the point is that the external dhammas, that is, the aggregates occurring in the continuities of others as well as inanimate objects, are similar to those occurring in one's own continuity, and so one does not have to make a detailed comprehension of them. One only has to comprehend in detail the aggregates occurring in one's own continuity.
              ------------------

              with metta

              tzungkuen




              ___._,___with






              Sotthi te hotu sabbadaa 願幸福永遠伴隨您May there always be happiness for you
              ___________________________________________________
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