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Re: AN1.18.1-181 Aparaaccharaasa`nghaata Vagga (3/4)

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Dear Nina and Dmytro, thanks for the interesting discussion on kasi.na . The word kasi.na as an adjective means whole or entire. However, in this case, in
    Message 1 of 366 , Jul 8, 2006
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      Dear Nina and Dmytro,

      thanks for the interesting discussion on 'kasi.na'. The
      word 'kasi.na' as an adjective means whole or entire. However, in
      this case, in meditation practice, it does not mean anything close
      to a 'totality-dimension' as Ven. Thanissaro translated. 'Kasi.na'
      is, in this case, the name of a meditation subject or method. And,
      using this method, a meditator has the choice of one of ten objects:
      earth, water, fire, etc. The idea then is to focus the mind
      _entirely_ (i.e. kasi.na) on the object to achieve one-pointedness.

      Therefore, considering the suggestions you have made, I would
      suggest as follow:

      pathaviikasi.na (n) kasina (object) of earth.
      - pathavii (f) earth.
      - kasi.na (n) a method of meditation.

      aapokasi.na (n) kasina (object) of water. ... etc.

      What do you think?

      Another thing that I have been thinking about is the color 'niila'.
      The PED has niila as blue-green, in Japanese, the color aoi [Çत]
      has similar meaning. The same goes for the Chinese colors bi [±Ì],
      cang [²Ô], and even qing [Çà], which is usually translated as green
      but can also means blue or black (as in yuqing [ðöÇà]). I wonder if
      there are any such resemblance in other Indoeuropean or Asian
      languages.

      Nina, thanks also for the other corrections and suggestions. Yahoo!
      Groups has recently made some modifications such that the messages
      are no longer presented and ordered in the way they were before.
      The "Up Thread" function is no longer available. The messages are
      now collected as 'topics', and linking all the messages would create
      a large 'topic', making it messy and possibly unmanageable. Hence, I
      would be starting a new 'topic' (as Y! Groups call it) for each
      logical unit of the AN.

      metta,
      Yong Peng.

      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, nina van gorkom wrote:

      It actually means: all encompassing. That is why the device that is
      prepared in the case of earth, is a circle of earth. Everything is
      earth. We fight for it, want to have things, but in fact, they are
      only earth. This leads to less clinging to sense objects, the aim of
      samatha. When we translate with totality, I am not sure whether this
      is generally clear to people.

      I looked in Netti Pakara.na, 89: ten bases of wholeness:
      kasi.naayatana. Footnote says: whole, entire. This is about what you
      mean by totality.

      Some texts leave kasi.na untranslated. It is to be preferred to
      leave kasi.na in brackets. Or the word *device* is used. Perhaps it
      depends on one's personal preference. If one uses totality, it may
      not be clear that it is a specific meditation subject.

      > op 14-06-2006 14:14 schreef Dmytro O. Ivakhnenko op aavuso@...:
      >
      > In Sutta 'kasina' does not mean a circular device. I like the
      Thanissaro Bhikkhu's translation 'totality'.
      >
      > [4] "There are these ten totality-dimensions. Which ten? One
      perceives the earth-totality above, below, all-around: non-dual,
      unlimited.
    • nina van gorkom
      Dear Yong Peng, I found this in my concepts file not sent. So, I send it now, though belated (29 July). I cannot remember whether I sent it, but I do not see
      Message 366 of 366 , Aug 17, 2006
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        Dear Yong Peng,

        I found this in my concepts file not sent. So, I send it now, though
        belated (29 July). I cannot remember whether I sent it, but I do not
        see it in the messages.

        Nina.
        op 07-06-2006 08:45 schreef Ong Yong Peng op pali.smith@...:

        please advise on the word: aruupasa~n~nii

        21-25. Saddhindriya.m bhaaveti... viiriyindriya.m bhaaveti...
        satindriya.m bhaaveti... samaadhindriya.m bhaaveti...
        pa~n~nindriya.m bhaaveti....



        ----------------------------------------------------------

        21-25. Saddhindriya.m bhaaveti... viiriyindriya.m bhaaveti...
        satindriya.m bhaaveti... samaadhindriya.m bhaaveti...
        pa~n~nindriya.m bhaaveti....
        ["O monks, if a monk] developed the faculty of faith (faculty of
        energy, faculty of mindfulness, faculty of concentration, faculty of
        wisdom), [even for the duration of a finger-snap, monks, such is
        said...]
        ------
        N: such a one is said...
        --------
        ----------------------------------------------------------

        31-37. Satisambojjha`nga.m bhaaveti... dhammavicayasambojjha`nga.m
        bhaaveti... viiriyasambojjha`nga.m bhaaveti... piitisambojjha`nga.m
        bhaaveti... passaddhisambojjha`nga.m bhaaveti...
        samaadhisambojjha`nga.m bhaaveti... upekkhaasambojjha`nga.m
        bhaaveti....

        ["O monks, if a monk] developed the mindfulness (doctrinal
        investigation,
        ------
        N: Investigation of Dhamma.
        -------

        38-45. Sammaadi.t.thi.m bhaaveti... sammaasa`nkappa.m bhaaveti...
        sammaavaaca.m bhaaveti... sammaakammanta.m bhaaveti... sammaa-
        aajiiva.m bhaaveti... sammaavaayaama.m bhaaveti... sammaasati.m
        bhaaveti... sammaasamaadhi.m bhaaveti....
        ["O monks, if a monk] developed right view (right intention, right
        speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right
        mindfulness, right concentration), [even for the duration of a
        finger-snap, monks, such is said...]
        -------
        N: sammaasa`nkappa.m: instead of right intention: right thinking.

        Intention is usually reserved for the term cetanaa, volition or kamma
        which
        is not a factor of the eightfold Path.
        Sammaadi.t.thi and sammaasa`nkappa are together called the wisdom of the
        eightfold Path. Sammaasa`nkappa is vitakka cetasika and it assists
        paññaa in
        'touching' or striking the object of understanding so that paññaa can
        know
        it.

        ----------------------------------------------------------

        46-53. Ajjhatta.m ruupasa~n~nii bahiddhaa ruupaani passati
        parittaani suva.n.nadubba.n.naani. 'Taani abhibhuyya jaanaami
        passaamii'ti -- eva.msa~n~nii hoti...
        ["O monks, if a monk, even for the duration of a finger-snap,]
        conscious of material forms arising from within,
        -------
        N: ajjhatta: I would eliminate arising, thus: within himself.
        I think materiality of his own body.
        He can develop kasinas taking as subject parts of his own body or
        external
        objects and then attain ruupa-jhaana.
        --------

        * appamaa.na (adj) endless, immeasurable, boundless, unlimited.
        ------
        N: here is allusion to the immaterial jhaanas, and here is the
        connection
        with the term aruupasa~n~nin.
        I consulted Dhammasangani Pali, 225: this has aruupasa~n~na. This is
        translated by PTS as: unconscious of any part of his corporeal self..

        The *a* is a negation of ruupasa~n~nin, not of ruupa, thus, not
        perceiving
        ruupa, materiality, of his own body. (See below the Atthasaalinii).
        The word unconscious seems misleading.
        ---------
        Ajjhatta.m aruupasa~n~nii bahiddhaa ruupaani passati parittaani
        suva.n.nadubba.n.naani. 'Taani abhibhuyya jaanaami passaamii'ti --
        eva.msa~n~nii hoti...

        ["O monks, if a monk, even for the duration of a finger-snap,]
        conscious of immaterial forms arising from within,
        ------
        N: immaterial forms: this is a contradiction.
        It could be: not conscious of material forms of his own body...
        This could be applied of all the following paras. These paras seem to
        refer
        to the colour kasinas of ruupa-jhaana.

        The Atthasaalinii, Co. to the Dhammasangani, explains (188) these
        'positions
        of mastery'.
        <'Not perceiving material quality in himself' means devoid of the
        perception
        of the preamble in his own bodily frame, either from not getting it,
        or from
        not wishing it.
        'Sees material qualities external to himself' means, from having
        performed
        the preamble externally in the eight devices, he sees with jhaana-
        eyes the
        external objects of these eight devices by virtue of the preamble and
        the
        extasy.
        'Limited' means not growing....
        Beautiful or ugly means pure or impure colours...>

        It is asked why it is said, Not perceiving material quality in
        himself, this
        is because his own body is not to be mastered, only external objects...
        *****
        Nina.






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