Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

The Meaning of dhamma 11.

Expand Messages
  • Nina van Gorkom
    The Meaning of dhamma 11. words: sata.m: existing, being, true (from sant). upeti: approach, obtain. icceva.m: iti+eva.m: thus indeed koci: someone (pl: keci)
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 7, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      The Meaning of dhamma 11.

      words:
      sata.m: existing, being, true (from sant).
      upeti: approach, obtain.
      icceva.m: iti+eva.m: thus indeed
      koci: someone (pl: keci)
      vattati: turn, proceed, take place.
      pariccheda (m); measure, division, classification.
      vatthu (n): ground, object, thing.
      *****
      The Saddaniti explains dhamma as nibbaana:

      <"Sata~nca dhammo na jara.m upetii"ti ettha nibbaane vattati.
      In the passage �And true dhamma is not susceptible to decay�, here
      dhamma means nibbaana...>

      We read about dhamma as anattaa:
      <Tatra yaa nissattataa, saa eva nijjiivataa.
      Here what is devoid of a living being, that is indeed without a soul.>

      We read about dhamma as cause:

      <Yo ca hetu, so eva paccayo.
      What is a cause, that is indeed a condition.>

      N: The terms hetu and paccaya are often used together, for example in
      the �Kindred Sayings�(IV, XXXV, � 93, Duality: yo pi hetu, yo pi
      paccaya...so pi hetu, so pi paccaya.. : that condition, that relation...

      The Saddaniti ends with a summary in verse:

      Icceva.m-
      Thus indeed the word dhamma occurs with reference to the following
      words:

      Pariyattipaccayesu, gu.ne nissattataaya ca;
      scriptures and conditions, virtue and what is devoid of a
      living being;

      sabhaave ceva pa~n~naaya.m, pu~n~ne pa~n~nattiyampi ca.
      what has its own characteristic and wisdom, merit and also
      concept.
      Aapattiya.m vikaare ca, paccayuppannakepi ca;
      disciplinary offense and alteration, and also what is
      conditioned;

      saccasamaadhipakati-~neyyesu yuttiyampi ca;
      truth, concentration and nature, what is to be known and
      also what is
      suitable;

      visaye ceva nibbaane, dhammasaddo pavattati.
      object and nibbaana, thus the word dhamma occurs.


      Keci pana dhammasaddassa pavattivisayaana.m dasadhaava pariccheda.m
      vadanti.
      Some teachers, however, indicate the classification of the
      applications of the word dhamma as tenfold:

      Neyyamagge ca nibbaane, sabhaave atha jaatiya.m;
      What is to be known, the Path, nibbaana, what has its own
      nature, and
      also birth;

      mane visayapu~n~nesu, bhaave paavacanepi ca;
      mind, object and merit, nature and also the scriptures;

      imesu dasavatthesu, dhammasaddo pavattati.
      in these ten applications the word dhamma occurs.

      ***********
      Nina.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jim Anderson
      ... soul. ... in ... relation... ... following ... a ... also ... and ... pariccheda.m ... own
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 8, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
        >
        > The Meaning of dhamma 11.
        >
        > words:
        > sata.m: existing, being, true (from sant).
        > upeti: approach, obtain.
        > icceva.m: iti+eva.m: thus indeed
        > koci: someone (pl: keci)
        > vattati: turn, proceed, take place.
        > pariccheda (m); measure, division, classification.
        > vatthu (n): ground, object, thing.
        > *****
        > The Saddaniti explains dhamma as nibbaana:
        >
        > <"Sata~nca dhammo na jara.m upetii"ti ettha nibbaane vattati.
        > In the passage "And true dhamma is not susceptible to decay", here
        > dhamma means nibbaana...>
        >
        > We read about dhamma as anattaa:
        > <Tatra yaa nissattataa, saa eva nijjiivataa.
        > Here what is devoid of a living being, that is indeed without a
        soul.>
        >
        > We read about dhamma as cause:
        >
        > <Yo ca hetu, so eva paccayo.
        > What is a cause, that is indeed a condition.>
        >
        > N: The terms hetu and paccaya are often used together, for example
        in
        > the "Kindred Sayings"(IV, XXXV, § 93, Duality: yo pi hetu, yo pi
        > paccaya...so pi hetu, so pi paccaya.. : that condition, that
        relation...
        >
        > The Saddaniti ends with a summary in verse:
        >
        > Icceva.m-
        > Thus indeed the word dhamma occurs with reference to the
        following
        > words:
        >
        > Pariyattipaccayesu, gu.ne nissattataaya ca;
        > scriptures and conditions, virtue and what is devoid of
        a
        > living being;
        >
        > sabhaave ceva pa~n~naaya.m, pu~n~ne pa~n~nattiyampi ca.
        > what has its own characteristic and wisdom, merit and
        also
        > concept.
        > Aapattiya.m vikaare ca, paccayuppannakepi ca;
        > disciplinary offense and alteration, and also what is
        > conditioned;
        >
        > saccasamaadhipakati-~neyyesu yuttiyampi ca;
        > truth, concentration and nature, what is to be known
        and
        > also what is
        > suitable;
        >
        > visaye ceva nibbaane, dhammasaddo pavattati.
        > object and nibbaana, thus the word dhamma occurs.
        >
        >
        > Keci pana dhammasaddassa pavattivisayaana.m dasadhaava
        pariccheda.m
        > vadanti.
        > Some teachers, however, indicate the classification of the
        > applications of the word dhamma as tenfold:
        >
        > Neyyamagge ca nibbaane, sabhaave atha jaatiya.m;
        > What is to be known, the Path, nibbaana, what has its
        own
        > nature, and
        > also birth;
        >
        > mane visayapu~n~nesu, bhaave paavacanepi ca;
        > mind, object and merit, nature and also the scriptures;
        >
        > imesu dasavatthesu, dhammasaddo pavattati.
        > in these ten applications the word dhamma occurs.
        >
        > ***********
        > Nina.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Jim Anderson
        My previous reply wasn t the one I thought I d posted to the group. This is my second attempt. --Jim ... Dear Nina, The sata.m in sata~nca is not an
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 9, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          My previous reply wasn't the one I thought I'd posted to the group.
          This is my second attempt. --Jim

          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

          > <"Sata~nca dhammo na jara.m upetii"ti ettha nibbaane vattati.
          > In the passage "And true dhamma is not susceptible to decay", here
          > dhamma means nibbaana...>

          Dear Nina,

          The "sata.m" in "sata~nca" is not an adjective in the same case
          as "dhammo". It is a genitive plural noun form of "sant" and should
          be translated as "of the true ones". So, "true dhamma" should be "the
          dhamma of the true ones" or the "the true ones' dhamma. This is made
          clear with "santaana.m" in the commentary below on Dhp 151:

          "Sata~ncaati buddhaadiina.m pana santaana.m navavidho lokuttaradhammo
          ca kiñci upaghaata.m na upetiiti na jara.m upeti naama."
          --Dhp-a III 123

          Best wishes,
          Jim
        • Nina van Gorkom
          Dear Jim, thank you very much. I shall make another corrected post of meaning of dhamma, no 11. I had some trouble with sata.m and thought of neutre: the
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 9, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Jim,
            thank you very much. I shall make another corrected post of meaning
            of dhamma, no 11.
            I had some trouble with sata.m and thought of neutre: the truth. But
            the co. says: it means santaana.m. I looked up Warder, p. 169.
            gacha.m , partic. in -ant. Still, the form is rather strange: sata.m
            =santaana.m
            Nina.

            Op 9-jul-2006, om 16:44 heeft Jim Anderson het volgende geschreven:
            >
            > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
            >
            > > <"Sata~nca dhammo na jara.m upetii"ti ettha nibbaane vattati.
            > > In the passage "And true dhamma is not susceptible to decay", here
            > > dhamma means nibbaana...>
            >
            > Dear Nina,
            >
            > The "sata.m" in "sata~nca" is not an adjective in the same case
            > as "dhammo". It is a genitive plural noun form of "sant" and should
            > be translated as "of the true ones". So, "true dhamma" should be "the
            > dhamma of the true ones" or the "the true ones' dhamma. This is made
            > clear with "santaana.m" in the commentary below on Dhp 151:
            >
            > "Sata~ncaati buddhaadiina.m pana santaana.m navavidho lokuttaradhammo
            > ca kiñci upaghaata.m na upetiiti na jara.m upeti naama."
            > --Dhp-a III 123
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Khemaramsi
            Dear friends Following is a important passage for vipassana practice. I was confused by the compound bahiddhaabhaavasaama~n~nato . If you would help to
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 17, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear friends

              Following is a important passage for vipassana practice. I was confused by the compound 'bahiddhaabhaavasaama~n~nato '. If you would help to translate this difficult passage, it will be very much appreciated.

              Tasmaa sasantaanagate sabbadhamme parasantaanagate ca tesa.m santaanavibhaaga.m akatvaa bahiddhaabhaavasaama~n~nato sammasana.m, aya.m saavakaana.m sammasanacaaro.

              Majjhimanikyaya-tika II 274 (CSCD)

              with much metta

              Tzungkuen


              Sotthi te hotu sabbadaa 願幸福永遠伴隨您May there always be happiness for you
              ___________________________________________________
              最新版 Yahoo!奇摩即時通訊 7.0,免費網路電話任你打!
              http://messenger.yahoo.com.tw/

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nina van Gorkom
              Dear Tzungkuen, please could you give the Majjh text of the sutta itself? Then I can look at the Co. in Thai, Nina. ... [Non-text portions of this message have
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 18, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Tzungkuen,
                please could you give the Majjh text of the sutta itself? Then I can
                look at the Co. in Thai,
                Nina.
                Op 17-jul-2006, om 12:00 heeft Khemaramsi het volgende geschreven:

                > Dear friends
                >
                > Following is a important passage for vipassana practice. I was
                > confused by the compound 'bahiddhaabhaavasaama~n~nato '. If you
                > would help to translate this difficult passage, it will be very
                > much appreciated.
                >
                >
                > .
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Khemaramsi
                Dear Nina Many thanks for your kind help. The tika passage in question is to explain the word ¡¥ekadesameva¡¦ in Uparipannasa-atthakatha (about Thai
                Message 7 of 7 , Jul 18, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Nina

                  Many thanks for your kind help.
                  The tika passage in question is to explain the word ‘ekadesameva’ in Uparipannasa-atthakatha (about Thai edition vol.3 p.494, I guess) . And the whole Atthakatha passage where ‘ekadesameva’ appears is to explain the word ‘anupadadhammavipassanaa’ in Anupadasutta.

                  Actually yesterday I got Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi’s translation. I am now trying to understand it . Please let me know your comment after you read the thai translation.


                  Tika passage

                  Tasmaa sasantaanagate sabbadhamme parasantaanagate ca tesa.m santaanavibhaaga.m akatvaa bahiddhaabhaavasaama~n~nato sammasana.m, aya.m saavakaana.m sammasanacaaro.

                  Following is Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi’s reply to me.
                  ----------------------
                  I admit I find the passage somewhat unclear. This is how I take the passage:

                  "… Therefore, this is the sphere of comprehension for disciples: all dhammas that come within their own [personal life] continuity and [the personal life] continuities of others, comprehension of them not involving a distinction between them by way of [personal life] continuity because of the similarity of those [marked by] externality."

                  Comment: The point seems to be that disciples comprehend all dhammas (five aggregates)--their own and those of others--together without distinguishing whether they are their own or those of others. "bahiddhàbhàva" is "externality" or "external nature" rather than "external existence." The suffix "-bhàva" is somewhat like English "-ness" or "-ship," the state or character implied by the previous term of the compound, in this case "bahiddhà" = external; hence "externality" or "external-ness." The "dhammas" are said to be similar with regard to their externality. I think the point is that the external dhammas, that is, the aggregates occurring in the continuities of others as well as inanimate objects, are similar to those occurring in one's own continuity, and so one does not have to make a detailed comprehension of them. One only has to comprehend in detail the aggregates occurring in one's own continuity.
                  ------------------

                  with metta

                  tzungkuen




                  ___._,___with






                  Sotthi te hotu sabbadaa 願幸福永遠伴隨您May there always be happiness for you
                  ___________________________________________________
                  最新版 Yahoo!奇摩即時通訊 7.0,免費網路電話任你打!
                  http://messenger.yahoo.com.tw/

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.