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Garudhammas, the "eight heavy duties"

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  • Sumana
    I asked my teacher, Bhante Gunaratana, about the eight heavy duties , the special restrictions on Bhikkhunis. His answer was unequivocal. The rules were
    Message 1 of 3 , May 30 3:14 PM
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      I asked my teacher, Bhante Gunaratana, about the
      "eight heavy duties", the special restrictions on
      Bhikkhunis.
      His answer was unequivocal. The rules were added to
      the Canon after the Parinibbana by some woman-hating
      person.
      What bothered him most was what he refered to as the
      "insult to the Buddha", the author(s) of the
      garudhammas make Ananda more compassionate than the
      Buddha himself.
      Furthermore, if the garudhammas were real they would
      be part of the Bhikkhuni training rules which of
      course they are not.
      What kind of strategy can we have to combat sexism in
      Theravada Buddhism?

      Sumana

      The Eight Heavy Duties are:

      1. A nun, even if she has been ordained for 100 years,
      must respect, greet and bow in reverence to the feet
      of a monk, even if he has just been ordained that day.
      (Monks pay respect to each other according to their
      seniority, or the number of years they have been
      ordained.)

      2. A nun is not to stay in a residence where there is
      no monk. (A monk may take an independent residence.)

      3. A nun is to look forward to two duties: asking for
      the fortnightly Uposatha (meeting day), and receiving
      instructions by a monk every fortnight. (Monks do not
      depend on nuns for this obligatory rite, nor are they
      required to receive any instruction.)

      4. A nun who has completed her rains-retreat must
      offer herself for instruction to both the community of
      monks and to the community of nuns, based on what is
      seen, what is heard and what is doubted. (Monks only
      offer themselves to the community of monks.)

      5. A nun who is put on probation for violating a
      monastic rule of Sanghadisesa must serve a 15-day
      minimum probation, with reinstatement requiring
      approval from both the monk and nun communities. (The
      minimum for monks is a five-day probation with no
      approval by the nuns required for reinstatement.)

      6. A woman must be ordained by both monks and nuns and
      may be ordained only after a two-year postulancy, or
      training in six precepts. (Men have no mandatory
      postulancy and their ordination is performed by monks
      only.)

      7. A nun may not reprimand a monk. (A monk may
      reprimand a monk, and any monk may reprimand a nun.)

      8. From today onwards, no nun shall ever teach a monk.
      However, monks may teach nuns. (There are no
      restrictions on whom a monk may teach.)

      rules summarized By METTANANDO BHIKKHU
      http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=8,2666,0,0,1,0

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    • John Green
      Hi, you have posed a question of great importance here Sumana: What kind of strategy can we have to combat sexism in Theravada Buddhism? I think it is
      Message 2 of 3 , Jun 1, 2006
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        Hi,
        you have posed a question of great importance here Sumana:
        "What kind of strategy can we have to combat sexism in Theravada Buddhism?"

        I think it is important to show two things:

        1. Sexism does not have much support in the canoical texts.
        I can't myself refer to any sources right now but I have as well several
        times realized that many of the rules are post-parinibbana.

        2. Sexism does not have a place to fulfill in modern times.
        Some claim that some of the extra-rules and duties for nuns were impossed by
        Buddha as an understanding
        and compassionate human. Nuns should for instance be more aware of the
        sexual side of life. They can't sleep by themselfes,
        they shouldn't go alone in the dark etc.
        At the time and place of the Buddha women were easy targets. Much easier
        than they are today in many countries. Today
        women do have more rights in many parts of the world.
        With this knowledge I guess modern teachers full of wisdom and insight
        should be able to abolish as many of the different trainings
        as possible. If they do not have the same relevance anymore. And if there
        are training rules that should be imposed on women out of
        neccesity; then let's work toghether as much as possible to able to take
        them away as well.

        This is of course my personal view based on my experinces as a yogi rather
        than as a bhikku.

        I read somewhere, can't remember though, that in the time of Gotama
        meditators were refered to as "Bhikkuni" no matter the gender;
        someone else who can remember such a thing?

        May all of you be well,
        John


        -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
        Från: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] För Sumana
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        Ämne: [Pali] Garudhammas, the "eight heavy duties"

        I asked my teacher, Bhante Gunaratana, about the "eight heavy duties", the
        special restrictions on Bhikkhunis.
        His answer was unequivocal. The rules were added to the Canon after the
        Parinibbana by some woman-hating person.
        What bothered him most was what he refered to as the "insult to the Buddha",
        the author(s) of the garudhammas make Ananda more compassionate than the
        Buddha himself.
        Furthermore, if the garudhammas were real they would be part of the
        Bhikkhuni training rules which of course they are not.
        What kind of strategy can we have to combat sexism in Theravada Buddhism?

        Sumana

        The Eight Heavy Duties are:

        1. A nun, even if she has been ordained for 100 years, must respect, greet
        and bow in reverence to the feet of a monk, even if he has just been
        ordained that day.
        (Monks pay respect to each other according to their seniority, or the number
        of years they have been
        ordained.)

        2. A nun is not to stay in a residence where there is no monk. (A monk may
        take an independent residence.)

        3. A nun is to look forward to two duties: asking for the fortnightly
        Uposatha (meeting day), and receiving instructions by a monk every
        fortnight. (Monks do not depend on nuns for this obligatory rite, nor are
        they required to receive any instruction.)

        4. A nun who has completed her rains-retreat must offer herself for
        instruction to both the community of monks and to the community of nuns,
        based on what is seen, what is heard and what is doubted. (Monks only offer
        themselves to the community of monks.)

        5. A nun who is put on probation for violating a monastic rule of
        Sanghadisesa must serve a 15-day minimum probation, with reinstatement
        requiring approval from both the monk and nun communities. (The minimum for
        monks is a five-day probation with no approval by the nuns required for
        reinstatement.)

        6. A woman must be ordained by both monks and nuns and may be ordained only
        after a two-year postulancy, or training in six precepts. (Men have no
        mandatory postulancy and their ordination is performed by monks
        only.)

        7. A nun may not reprimand a monk. (A monk may reprimand a monk, and any
        monk may reprimand a nun.)

        8. From today onwards, no nun shall ever teach a monk.
        However, monks may teach nuns. (There are no restrictions on whom a monk may
        teach.)

        rules summarized By METTANANDO BHIKKHU
        http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=8,2666,0,0,1,0

        __________________________________________________
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        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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      • rjkjp1
        Dear Sumana, I an curious how your venerable teacher knows this. When did the women hating monk add this in to the Tipitaka? I wonder why other monks didn t
        Message 3 of 3 , Jun 1, 2006
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          Dear Sumana,
          I an curious how your venerable teacher knows this. When did the
          women hating monk add this in to the Tipitaka?
          I wonder why other monks didn't say anything.
          Robert

          In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Sumana <paulocuana@...> wrote:
          >
          > I asked my teacher, Bhante Gunaratana, about the
          > "eight heavy duties", the special restrictions on
          > Bhikkhunis.
          > His answer was unequivocal. The rules were added to
          > the Canon after the Parinibbana by some woman-hating
          > person.
          > What bothered him most was what he refered to as the
          > "insult to the Buddha", the author(s) of the
          > garudhammas make Ananda more compassionate than the
          > Buddha himself.
          > Furthermore, if the garudhammas were real they would
          > be part of the Bhikkhuni training rules which of
          > course they are not.
          > What kind of strategy can we have to combat sexism in
          > Theravada Buddhism?
          >
          > Sumana
          >
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