Re: Thai: samnak song
- Dear Sritantra,
> I am a first time poster here.Welcome!
> The Thai expression is "samnak song", or 'religious hermitage'. ThisWell, not quite. What distinguishes a samnak song from a wat is that
> normally indicates a monastic organization that falls outside the
> greater centrally regulated Sangha - that is, a 'retreat centre' that
> does not have [often in the sense of 'lacking'] a consecrated area
> or "main hall" (Thai: bot) or sIma 'boundary' for conducting formal
> ecclesiastical/legal acts, etc.
the latter has established a visu`ngaamasiimaa with official approval,
while the former hasn't. But it really has nothing to do with the
presence or absence of a bot. For example, my teacher's monastery in
Lamphun had had a bot built for many decades and yet was only classed
as a samnak song because none of the preceding abbots had bothered to
do the paperwork to get the siimaa registered. On the other hand, there
are some forest monasteries that are recognized as wats even though
they haven't got around to building a bot.
> Now as for "song", according to at least one monastic Thai-speaker itYes, that is certainly correct and can be seen from the Thai spelling
> is a colloquialization (or linguistic alteration) of Sk/P sangha. I
> would appreciate any verification or refutation of this.
of the word.
> In brief, does anybody have any clear idea as to the derivationFrom the spelling I should think it is most likely a loanword from
> of "samnak"? Being of two syllables, my instincts tell me that it
> must be Sanskrit/Pali in origin.
classical Khmer. If it were from Pali or Sanskrit we should expect to
see the syllable "am" spelled "sara aa (or sara a), mor maa" as in such
words as saamakkhii (Pali, saamaggii) and saamanen (saama.nera);
instead, it is spelled with the am ligature, in common with such words
as samdaeng, samnao, samneuk, samret, samruad etc. etc. -- all from
Cambodian. Further evidence in support of a Khmer origin is the
prominence of "samnak" in royal Thai and civil service jargon.
- I am very thankful to Nina Van Gorkom and Venerable Dhammanando for
their kind assistance. Dhammanando particularly reflects in his post an
exquisitely heuristic range of research interests. Might the two of you
only indulge me further
1. Assuming samnak is indeed a loan word from Classical Khmer, how might
we ascertain the term's true sense? In other words, what might be the
Sk/P word from which samnak is derived? Goggle brings up Khmer samnag.
Parsing this word as sam + nag provides some pretty clear Sanskritic
intimation. However Monier-Williams has nil.
2. How about this? Could a reconstructed meaning be drawn from sam +
nak/nag? Thus nak becomes a Thai modification of the Classical Khmer
nag, as derived from the Sanskrit naga (no long vowels). Naga would
signify/imply and transfer the meaning(s) of 'mountain & tree' - hence
'fixity and firmness'. In a similar way (if I'm not mistaken), Pali na +
gacchati also means 'immovable' ('like a mountain').
3. To shepherd my question in another direction, may I assume the Thai
samnak to be a 'purely secular' term? That is, minus any qualifier -
e.g. song, patibat, yokha, et al - does samnak ('centre, union') aver to
anything more than a social organization, association, society, club,
institute, etc? Is samnak ever a stand-alone word?
--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, nina van gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
> Venerable Sritantra,
> op 01-04-2006 05:57 schreef sritantra op sritantra@...:
> > Now as for "song", according to at least one monastic Thai-speaker
> > is a colloquialization (or linguistic alteration) of Sk/P sangha. I
> > would appreciate any verification or refutation of this.
> > In brief, does anybody have any clear idea as to the derivation
> > of "samnak"? Being of two syllables, my instincts tell me that it
> > must be Sanskrit/Pali in origin.
> N: yes, song is sangha, community.
> samnak I recall: a center. Samnak patibat, a meditation center.
> With respect,
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- Venerable Sritantra,
I heard in Thai: the Buddha's Samnak.
Perhaps where the Buddha dwelt.
It may not be just secular.
op 02-04-2006 11:31 schreef sritantra op sritantra@...:
> To shepherd my question in another direction, may I assume the Thai
> samnak to be a 'purely secular' term? That is, minus any qualifier -
> e.g. song, patibat, yokha, et al - does samnak ('centre, union') aver to
> anything more than a social organization, association, society, club,
> institute, etc? Is samnak ever a stand-alone word?