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[Pali] Re: hi! I'm new here. some basic questions..

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  • rett
    Hi Thomas and group, ... My impression is close to yours, that khaadati is more like chewing , and is more likely to be used of an animal devouring prey, as
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 1, 2006
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      Hi Thomas and group,

      >
      >
      >bhuñjati/khaadati - both mean "to eat". I got the impression that
      >bhuñjati means having a meal, while khaadati refers to devouring (like
      >predator eating prey). is this close?

      My impression is close to yours, that khaadati is more like 'chewing', and is more likely to be used of an animal devouring prey, as you say.

      The rest of the questions you ask are not easy or obvious questions to answer. Perhaps someone here has looked into them and can answer, or has developed a feeling for the distinctions in their reading, but generally you'd need to do a corpus search and examine how the words are used in various contexts and see if you can detect patterns. We don't have the advantage of being able to quiz native speakers.

      The Pali corpus isn't fully digitalized and searchable in the same way as, for instance, the Anglo-Saxon corpus is. There are also several strata or levels of Pali. One way to start would be to try to answer these questions just within the stratum of commentarial narrative Pali prose. (jaataka and dhammapada commentaries, rasavaahini, thuupava.msa etc). Maybe include epic writing like the mahaava.msa. Pali as 'standardized' in Sri Lanka.

      Another issue is that you get into a certain amount of comparison with other prakrits, with Vedic and with Sanskrit. To really answer some of these questions you'd want wider knowledge of early and middle Indic, though personally I feel there would be a lot of value in just working within the commentarial Pali mentioned above and see how far you could go with exactly mapping the semantic fields of key 'everyday item' words. Technical vocabulary pertaining to Buddhism is a whole nother story.

      best regards,

      /Rett
    • Jacques Huynen
      Hello Rett, I would like to know why you advise starting looking in the commentarial litterature rather than in the canonic one ? Is it for statistical reason
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 1, 2006
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        Hello Rett,

        I would like to know why you advise starting looking
        in the commentarial litterature rather than in the
        canonic one ? Is it for statistical reason - because
        commentaries would be more bulky ? Or for some other
        reason ?

        Thanks

        With Metta

        Jacques Huynen

        --- rett <rett@...> wrote:

        > Hi Thomas and group,
        >
        > >
        > >
        > >bhuñjati/khaadati - both mean "to eat". I got the
        > impression that
        > >bhuñjati means having a meal, while khaadati refers
        > to devouring (like
        > >predator eating prey). is this close?
        >
        > My impression is close to yours, that khaadati is
        > more like 'chewing', and is more likely to be used
        > of an animal devouring prey, as you say.
        >
        > The rest of the questions you ask are not easy or
        > obvious questions to answer. Perhaps someone here
        > has looked into them and can answer, or has
        > developed a feeling for the distinctions in their
        > reading, but generally you'd need to do a corpus
        > search and examine how the words are used in various
        > contexts and see if you can detect patterns. We
        > don't have the advantage of being able to quiz
        > native speakers.
        >
        > The Pali corpus isn't fully digitalized and
        > searchable in the same way as, for instance, the
        > Anglo-Saxon corpus is. There are also several strata
        > or levels of Pali. One way to start would be to try
        > to answer these questions just within the stratum of
        > commentarial narrative Pali prose. (jaataka and
        > dhammapada commentaries, rasavaahini, thuupava.msa
        > etc). Maybe include epic writing like the
        > mahaava.msa. Pali as 'standardized' in Sri Lanka.
        >
        > Another issue is that you get into a certain amount
        > of comparison with other prakrits, with Vedic and
        > with Sanskrit. To really answer some of these
        > questions you'd want wider knowledge of early and
        > middle Indic, though personally I feel there would
        > be a lot of value in just working within the
        > commentarial Pali mentioned above and see how far
        > you could go with exactly mapping the semantic
        > fields of key 'everyday item' words. Technical
        > vocabulary pertaining to Buddhism is a whole nother
        > story.
        >
        > best regards,
        >
        > /Rett
        >


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      • nina van gorkom
        Dear Hjor, Sorry, too difficult. Rett answered khaadati. The word bhuñjati I would use for a bhikkhu, more polite and dignified. as to:suukara/varaaha - any
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 1, 2006
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          Dear Hjor,
          Sorry, too difficult. Rett answered khaadati. The word bhuñjati I would use
          for a bhikkhu, more polite and dignified.
          as to:suukara/varaaha - any difference between the pigs,
          In the Co. to the Mahaaparinibbaanasutta, the Buddha's last meal,
          suukaramaddava is used: pork stew, of a a pig. I know that different
          interpretations are given.
          Perhaps varaaha is not used of flesh of a pig.

          Nina.
          op 01-04-2006 08:24 schreef hjor9 op hjor9@...:

          > bhuñjati/khaadati - both mean "to eat". I got the impression that
          > bhuñjati means having a meal, while khaadati refers to devouring (like
          > predator eating prey). is this close?
        • rett
          Hi Jacques and group, ... It s just one possible way to focus a study to make it more manageable. The commentarial narrative prose has the following features
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 1, 2006
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            Hi Jacques and group,

            >
            >I would like to know why you advise starting looking
            >in the commentarial litterature rather than in the
            >canonic one ? Is it for statistical reason - because
            >commentaries would be more bulky ? Or for some other
            >reason ?

            It's just one possible way to focus a study to make it more manageable. The commentarial narrative prose has the following features that appeal to me:

            It's extensive.

            Has folklore from all walks of life, including many descriptions of secular life.

            The language is relatively standardized.

            The style is explicitly that of a written, literary language.

            My impression so far, though I can't back it up with proof, is that the canonical prose has somewhat less wide-reaching story material, has a greater variety of odd and problematic forms and has more of an oral recitation style (cadenced prose, repetitions, and different ways of handling paragraphs, topicalization, transitions, the pronominal marking of retention or change of grammatical agent, anaphora etc). This doesn't mean I don't think it's worth studying. On the contrary, the canonical Pali prose is the most beautiful and profound literature I've ever read. It's just that there might be some value in doing separate studies of different strata, and the commentarial prose strikes me as a bit easier to start out with.

            I'm also a believer in learning ancient languages in the same sequence that a child learns to read. Stories > simple non-fiction > advanced technical writing and literature. The commentarial prose has a lot to offer in the way of simpler stories, and because of its standardization it's a realistic goal to get to where you can read Jaataka prose and Dhp-a like a bedside novel: extensively, quickly and with little or no reference to the dictionary.

            best regards,

            /Rett
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