15631Re: asatthikaa caravan or armed?
- Dec 1, 2011Friends,
Just some thoughts on this strange argument; obvious it is pretty silly to think of Bhikkhunis going around carrying weapons :)
First, the formation satthika is not used anywhere to mean "with a weapon" - it is used to mean "of the caravan", i.e. caravaners (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caravanner), in the PÄyÄsi Sutta.
Second, nowhere is a sattha allowed, so it seems incongruous to suggest that bhikkhunis go around carrying one - a satthaka is explicitly allowed for bhikkhus cutting robes (Cv 5); ostensibly this refers to a miniature (-ka) knife (sattha).
Third, the anÄpatti clause, "anÄpatti satthena saha gacchati" isn't what one would expect if the meaning were "carrying a knife"; it's not a common expression, but it is used elsewhere, e.g. pÄcittiya 67:
âesÄyyo, pabbajitena saha gacchatÄ«ââti.
One would expect something like the common "cÄ«varaá¹ dhÄreti" if the meaning were "carrying a knife".
Fourth, weapons in general are considered "untouchable" by the commentary, touching which is subject to a dukkaá¹a... can't find the canonical basis for it, but here's the passage in the commentary (to pÄrÄjika #2):
sabbaÃ±ca Ävudhabhaá¹á¸Ädiá¹ Ämasantassa dukkaá¹aá¹ vuttaá¹, idaá¹ anÄmÄsadukkaá¹aá¹ nÄma.
Hope this is welcome. Sorry that the DPR can't figure out asatthika yet :)
--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
> Dear Bryan and Sister Dipa,
> thank you. The life of a bhikkhu and bhikkhuni is a life with non-
> violence. Think of the Parable of the Saw: even if robbers would saw
> off your limbs, you still should have mettaa. It is not in the spirit
> of the teachings to carry weapons. Caravan would be the only
> possibility I would think.
> Op 1-dec-2011, om 4:34 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:
> > Presumably the sentence could mean either nuns shouldn't wander
> > without weapons in dangerous places and/or a nun shouldn't wander
> > without companions in such places, both of which things we might
> > say to our own children if they were travelling to an unsafe
> > location (stay with your friends, and keep a pepper spray in your
> > purse); so in the end I'm not sure if both meanings were meant,
> > although the "travel in a caravan" definition seems the most
> > logical if we have to pick one.
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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