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When the battle starts again, will you support it?

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  • Christopher Blackwell
    At some point I would imagine that we will lose a Heathen or a Druid soldier. When that happens the grieving family will then be allowed to petition the VA for
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 9, 2010
      At some point I would imagine that we will
      lose a Heathen or a Druid soldier. When
      that happens the grieving family will then be
      allowed to petition the VA for the Thor's
      Hammer or an Awen.

      As of right now there is no evidence that either
      is going to be any easier to get than the original
      battle for the Pentacle. As of right now, the number
      of Heathens and Druids is smaller than Wiccans,
      they are going to need a lot of support from us,
      just as they gave support for the fight for the
      Pentacle.

      They face some of the same problems as both
      Heathens and Druids are highly independent and
      not often united about anything. I would imagine
      the VA remains the VA, and relatively unchanged
      since the battle of the Pentacle.

      So my question remains, when the battle starts
      will you be supporting the Heathens and the Druids.

      The long silence on this issue is disturbing to me.
      I hope this is not the we got ours, and the hell for
      anyone else.

      As fir my part, I will write up the battle in ACTION
      and will personally help in whatever ways that I am
      capable.

      Meanwhile I hope the scheduled eye operation gives
      me some reading ability with my right eye, because the
      left eye continues to fade.

      Blessed Be,

      Christopher
    • charlesparnold
      ... Christopher, when Rosemary and I started this group I made a blood oath that I would follow it through, not just for Wiccans but for Heathens and Druids as
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 10, 2010
        "Christopher Blackwell" <myrddin@...> wrote:
        >
        > At some point I would imagine that we will lose a Heathen or a Druid soldier. When that happens the grieving family will then be allowed to petition the VA for the Thor's Hammer or an Awen.
        >
        > As of right now there is no evidence that either is going to be any easier to get than the original battle for the Pentacle. As of right now, the number of Heathens and Druids is smaller than Wiccans, they are going to need a lot of support from us, just as they gave support for the fight for the Pentacle.
        >
        > They face some of the same problems as both Heathens and Druids are highly independent and not often united about anything. I would imagine the VA remains the VA, and relatively unchanged since the battle of the Pentacle.
        >
        > So my question remains, when the battle starts will you be supporting the Heathens and the Druids.
        >
        > The long silence on this issue is disturbing to me. I hope this is not the we got ours, and the hell for anyone else.
        >
        > As for my part, I will write up the battle in ACTION and will personally help in whatever ways that I am capable.


        Christopher, when Rosemary and I started this group I made a blood oath that I would follow it through, not just for Wiccans but for Heathens and Druids as well. I will stand firm in that oath, willing to go to any lengths to see that they are afforded the same rights we have won. And this time I we won't have to go through all the phases we did last time, phases that many or us knew were going to accomplish nothing with the government but were necessary in order to educate and inform the Pagan populace.

        Charles Arnold
        >
      • wolf_kells
        ABSOLUTELY, Christopher. The only reason that there has been a lack of action on my part at the moment is because of the V.A. s stance on the fact that a
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 10, 2010
          ABSOLUTELY, Christopher.

          The only reason that there has been a lack of action on my part at the moment is because of the V.A.'s stance on the fact that a soldier has to die first (which I personally think is a B*LLSHIT excuse to delay the approval of ANY religious symbol).

          Other than that, I remain on standby.

          Peace,
          Heather Fairfield
        • Pete Barrington
          Ok, I m with you. Count me in. But, I remind you,... our LAST victory came while we had Democratic Congress, albeit with a Republican president. Will  it be
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 10, 2010
            Ok, I'm with you. Count me in.
            But, I remind you,...
            our LAST victory came while we had Democratic Congress, albeit with a Republican president.
            Will  it be so easy now, with a soon to be Republican Congress?
            Either way, I'm ready to fight the good fight.

            Tracker

            --- On Fri, 12/10/10, charlesparnold <charlesparnold@...> wrote:

            From: charlesparnold <charlesparnold@...>
            Subject: [Pagan-Headstone-Campaign] Re: When the battle starts again, will you support it?
            To: Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, December 10, 2010, 2:52 PM

            "Christopher Blackwell" <myrddin@...> wrote:
            >
            > At some point I would imagine that we will lose a Heathen or a Druid soldier. When that happens the grieving family will then be allowed to petition the VA for the Thor's Hammer or an Awen.
            >
            > As of right now there is no evidence that either is going to be any easier to get than the original battle for the Pentacle. As of right now, the number of Heathens and Druids is smaller than Wiccans, they are going to need a lot of support from us, just as they gave support for the fight for the Pentacle.
            >
            > They face some of the same problems as both Heathens and Druids are highly independent and not often united about anything. I would imagine the VA remains the VA, and relatively unchanged since the battle of the Pentacle.
            >
            > So my question remains, when the battle starts will you be supporting the Heathens and the Druids.
            >
            > The long silence on this issue is disturbing to me. I hope this is not the we got ours, and the hell for anyone else.
            >
            > As for my part, I will write up the battle in ACTION and will personally help in whatever ways that I am capable.


            Christopher, when Rosemary and I started this group I made a blood oath that I would follow it through, not just for Wiccans but for Heathens and Druids as well. I will stand firm in that oath, willing to go to any lengths to see that they are afforded the same rights we have won. And this time I we won't have to go through all the phases we did last time, phases that many or us knew were going to accomplish nothing with the government but were necessary in order to educate and inform the Pagan populace.

            Charles Arnold
            >




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          • Christopher Blackwell
            Tracker, Remember that neither the President nor Congress helped last time. We were forced to use the courts. I suspect we will have to use the courts again.
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 11, 2010
              Tracker,

              Remember that neither the President nor
              Congress helped last time. We were forced
              to use the courts. I suspect we will have to
              use the courts again.

              Blessed Be,

              Christopher
            • Christopher Blackwell
              Heather, There I agree with you. The last thing a grieving family of a veteran should have to do is then fight the VA over what symbol goes on his grave stone.
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 11, 2010
                Heather,

                There I agree with you. The last thing a grieving
                family of a veteran should have to do is then fight
                the VA over what symbol goes on his grave stone.

                So the three of you have shown we still have some
                people at the ready. That is good. Now we are going
                to have to spread the message around so that we
                don't have to rebuild a group to fight when it happens.

                Remember how long it took just to get the Wiccan
                community involved in the fight for the pentacle, or
                even decide which symbol to fight for.

                The Heathen and Druid communities are having much
                the same problem getting their act together and for the
                same reasons. They are no more united than the Wiccan
                community was. So everyone that played a part in the
                Pentacle battle could become an important resources in
                the next one for either the Awen or the Thor's Hammer.

                If the Wiccans can be their for the Heathens and the Druid,
                we might well improve the relationship between
                communities as well. At least with those in those
                communities that see a value in communities working
                together. I know from personal experience that there are
                people of each community that do see a value in working
                together.

                There are other people in the fight that helped before,
                including the atheists, the ACLU and People for the Separation
                of Church and State. We have had friend of court briefs from
                religious groups like Buddhists, Hindus, Jewish groups. Some
                of them are also involved in other Pagan rights issues such
                as prisoner rights, such as the case in the California prisons
                system that only honors five religions right now, Catholic,
                Protestant, Jew, Muslim and American Indian.

                There are allies among the liberal Christian groups as well.
                By the way there is a Heathen idea called a gift for a gift.
                It is how they see their relationship with the gods. To get
                something from the gods, you have to give something back.
                It works with allies as well.

                You don't even have to like all the allies. But work with the
                ones you can deal with and it helps us all. This is the reason
                why we have to have ties with the larger communities.

                Of course it also helps if we can do this with members of
                our own community who we may have differences with as well.
                There is a right time and a wrong time to disagree, there are
                right things and wrong things to disagree about. Our mutual
                survival depends on knowing the difference.

                It is like how I do interviews. My opinion is not important.
                I help the person tell their story about what they think is
                important and I leave it to my readers to make up their mind
                what is important and what is true. My job is to get the
                greatest variety of people interviewed so that others will know
                about them and make their own opinions. Networking is my
                service to the gods, and encouragement.

                Each of us has something we can do, something we can give.
                That ability may be far more important then we will ever know
                and may influence far more people than we will ever know
                about. We are each part of the over all pattern, act or not act
                and the pattern changes.

                As I believe in reincarnation, I remind myself each day, I am
                creating the world I will next be born into . Will it be better, or
                worse or much the same as the one I live in today.


                Blessed Be,

                Christopher
                Meanwhile fighting a cold, trying to get my Yule issue out before,
                I head off for the much delayed eye surgery, next week. So off to bed.

                --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "wolf_kells" <heather.greywolf@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > ABSOLUTELY, Christopher.
                >
                > The only reason that there has been a lack of action on my part at the moment is because of the V.A.'s stance on the fact that a soldier has to die first (which I personally think is a B*LLSHIT excuse to delay the approval of ANY religious symbol).
                >
                > Other than that, I remain on standby.
                >
                > Peace,
                > Heather Fairfield
                >
              • charlesparnold
                I m hoping we don t have to go through that again. I really do think that adequate publicity of the issue would do the job.
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 13, 2010
                  I'm hoping we don't have to go through that again. I really do think that adequate publicity of the issue would do the job.

                  --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Blackwell" <myrddin@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Tracker,
                  >
                  > Remember that neither the President nor
                  > Congress helped last time. We were forced
                  > to use the courts. I suspect we will have to
                  > use the courts again.
                  >
                  > Blessed Be,
                  >
                  > Christopher
                  >
                • Christopher Blackwell
                  Charles, Gee I do hope that you are right. But as I deal with the VA many times a year, i tend to be skeptical abut any improvement in the VA handling
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 14, 2010
                    Charles,

                    Gee I do hope that you are right. But as I deal
                    with the VA many times a year, i tend to be
                    skeptical abut any improvement in the VA
                    handling anything.

                    I am heading in for my fifth eye operation on
                    my right eye this week and then next week
                    another long distance trip in the opposite direction
                    to fight for better benefits. Ironically everything I
                    am claiming is in my VA medical records but they
                    want to send me to see new doctors that never
                    met me to see if my reasons are real. Meanwhile
                    sight in my left eye is fading.

                    I am getting too old for these five hundred mile,
                    two or three day round trips by bus. Then there is
                    geting my walker loaded and unloaded.


                    Blessed Be,

                    Christopher



                    --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "charlesparnold" <charlesparnold@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm hoping we don't have to go through that again. I really do think that adequate publicity of the issue would do the job.
                    >
                  • charlesparnold
                    ... handling anything. ... Trust me, Chris, I do understand. I am still, 16 years later, still trying to get the VA to recognize my disability claim. So far,
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 17, 2010
                      --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Blackwell" <myrddin@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Charles,
                      > Gee I do hope that you are right. But as I deal with the VA many times a year, i tend to be skeptical abut any improvement in the VA
                      handling anything.
                      >
                      > I am heading in for my fifth eye operation on my right eye this week and then next week another long distance trip in the opposite direction to fight for better benefits. Ironically everything I am claiming is in my VA medical records but they want to send me to see new doctors that never met me to see if my reasons are real. Meanwhile sight in my left eye is fading.
                      >
                      > I am getting too old for these five hundred mile, two or three day round trips by bus. Then there is geting my walker loaded and unloaded.
                      >
                      > Blessed Be,
                      > Christopher

                      Trust me, Chris, I do understand. I am still, 16 years later, still trying to get the VA to recognize my disability claim. So far, as far as they are concerned, I am in perfect health and they still deny my skin condition is a result of Agent Orange, that I do not have PTSD, that the cyst still wrapped around my tailbone doesn't exist, etc.

                      All that being said I will stick to my position that if the VA puts up any fight against Druid or Heathen insignias, at least while we still have this President in office, they will be a pushover. After all, Barack Obama does NOT want his administration seen as being prejudiced against and group, especially a group that is a religious minority, a group that is made up of veterans - some of which HE ordered to Iraq and Afghanistan.

                      As of 2013, if a new President is elected, the situation may shift but I still think we can create such a PR firestorm that no administration can stand against us. And yes, I am still willing to go to DC and get my butt arrested if necessary to get the publicity that the issue may require - and so too are a few others here.

                      Bright and Blessed Yule to All
                      Charles
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "charlesparnold" <charlesparnold@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I'm hoping we don't have to go through that again. I really do think that adequate publicity of the issue would do the job.
                      > >
                      >
                    • Christopher Blackwell
                      Charles, Just got back from my operation. Back from surgery. It seems to have gone fairly well as far as the operation. A far as getting around, I can see
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 18, 2010
                        Charles,

                        Just got back from my operation.

                        Back from surgery. It seems to have gone
                        fairly well as far as the operation. A far as
                        getting around, I can see better. However
                        I will have to await further healing to discover
                        if I am going to be able to read with this
                        right eye. Things remain rather distorted
                        and that may or may stay that way as things
                        have been distorted several operations back.

                        I see to read much the same with my left eye
                        but it gets a little confusing looking at my
                        keyboard portion my computer as both eyes
                        don't see the same direction or the same way.
                        So far it has not bothered me on book reading.
                        Now I am just learning about how it affects my
                        monitor reading. If worse comes to worse though,
                        I can just close my right eye.

                        Meanwhile next week I start out again just time
                        trying to convince some new doctors how more
                        benefits I am going to need as I can see less than
                        I did a couple of years ago.

                        As to getting your butt busted again. Have you
                        developed any reliable people in the media to
                        report on what you do. You have to be your own
                        PR man, and that includes all the information in
                        convenient sound bites if need be. But certainly
                        press releases easy enough for the dumbest media
                        person.

                        Very few media people seem to know how, or to bother,
                        to research on the story they are writing. So if the
                        press release is short and sweet, it just might get
                        published as it or repeated as it. You probably know
                        all that stuff, as we Pagans have to be just as good at
                        handling the media as everyone else is.

                        I noticed a few years back the Cherry Hill Seminary
                        already sponsored a class in it taught by an old Pagan
                        media person.

                        But if the media ignores you, no one hear a about what
                        you and I as Pagans do, even less likely that the national
                        media picks it up. It is one skill that I know is weak in the
                        Wiccan community in general through we do have a few
                        that are good at making use of the media.

                        Every group that hopes to make use of the media needs
                        at least one person who is skilled at it and that all media
                        is directed to for any questions. This includes giving the
                        media a very "guided tour" of what is happening and who
                        is doing what.

                        Meanwhile if you are going to do something, let me know
                        so I can interview you about it. We can at least get it around
                        some of the Pagan community here, in Canada, Europe, even
                        Russia. Some of those groups might be able to pass it around.
                        Networking is part of what i dod, within what readers that I have.


                        Blessed Be,

                        Christopher


                        --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "charlesparnold" <charlesparnold@...> wrote:
                        > Trust me, Chris, I do understand. I am still, 16 years later, still trying to get the VA to recognize my disability claim. So far, as far as they are concerned, I am in perfect health and they still deny my skin condition is a result of Agent Orange, that I do not have PTSD, that the cyst still wrapped around my tailbone doesn't exist, etc.
                        >
                        > All that being said I will stick to my position that if the VA puts up any fight against Druid or Heathen insignias, at least while we still have this President in office, they will be a pushover. After all, Barack Obama does NOT want his administration seen as being prejudiced against and group, especially a group that is a religious minority, a group that is made up of veterans - some of which HE ordered to Iraq and Afghanistan.
                        >
                        > As of 2013, if a new President is elected, the situation may shift but I still think we can create such a PR firestorm that no administration can stand against us. And yes, I am still willing to go to DC and get my butt arrested if necessary to get the publicity that the issue may require - and so too are a few others here.
                        >
                        > Bright and Blessed Yule to All
                        > Charles
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