Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Curious, anyone interested in going back to the original purpose of this site.

Expand Messages
  • Christopher Blackwell
    It was once said that our purpose here is to fight for religious rights of our service men and women and vets with the VA. Well as the Heathens get on with
    Message 1 of 20 , May 1, 2009
      It was once said that our purpose here is to fight
      for religious rights of our service men and women
      and vets with the VA.

      Well as the Heathens get on with their Hammer Project
      is anyone interested, or did we lose interest once the
      Pentacle was won. Some Heathens helped with that.

      Just curious.

      Blessed Be,

      Christopher
    • Eric Roberts
      Already there ;-) Eric
      Message 2 of 20 , May 1, 2009
        Already there ;-)
         
        Eric

        On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 9:51 PM, Christopher Blackwell <myrddin@...> wrote:


        It was once said that our purpose here is to fight
        for religious rights of our service men and women
        and vets with the VA.

        Well as the Heathens get on with their Hammer Project
        is anyone interested, or did we lose interest once the
        Pentacle was won. Some Heathens helped with that.

        Just curious.

        Blessed Be,

        Christopher


      • Christopher Blackwell
        Eric, Glad to hear that. It looks like the VA has not learned much from the Pentacle quest. They still have not implemented the new rules, which I believe was
        Message 3 of 20 , May 2, 2009
          Eric,

          Glad to hear that. It looks like the VA has not learned
          much from the Pentacle quest. They still have not implemented
          the new rules, which I believe was required within six
          months by that court order.

          Also the same excuse of not being able to do anything
          about making a decision until a vet dies. No one should
          have to fight the VA while grieving the death of a loved one.

          Now I am hearing that the new rules, may allow any non
          profit religious organization to request an emblem. I hope so.

          I have not heard of new progress from the Druid in getting
          their Awen symbol approved. Though I am going to have to ask
          some of the few Druid that I know about that.

          I intend to do articles on both as they develop. Seems like the
          least that I can do. Once each religion has one emblem then
          the way for variations, such as the Christians have may open.

          Blessed Be,

          Christopher


          --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote:
          >
          > Already there ;-)
          >
          > Eric
          >
        • gypsy
          ... spoke with congressman Phil Roe yesterday... he has someone that is going to get back with me. He was speaking at a dinner the salvation army gave. The
          Message 4 of 20 , May 3, 2009
            --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote:
            >
            > Already there ;-)
            >
            > Eric
            >
            > On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 9:51 PM, Christopher Blackwell <myrddin@...>wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > It was once said that our purpose here is to fight
            > > for religious rights of our service men and women
            > > and vets with the VA.
            > >
            > > Well as the Heathens get on with their Hammer Project
            > > is anyone interested, or did we lose interest once the
            > > Pentacle was won. Some Heathens helped with that.
            > >
            > > Just curious.
            > >
            > > Blessed Be,
            > >
            > > Christopher
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            spoke with congressman Phil Roe yesterday... he has someone that is going to get back with me. He was speaking at a dinner the salvation army gave. The dinner was for our chapter 979 of the veitnam veterans association and the homeless vets staying there. My question to him was why cant the veterans plan ahead by telling what they want before something happens to them. Also asked why we just couldnt put what ever symble we choose for ourselves. Also mentioned a little of the story of the hammer and the pentacle. And of course the pagan headstone campaign. Although it was a question answer section so there was not a lot of time for details. They did talk with me after the meeting and got my name and number... So send good energy and lets see where it leads.

            sending good energy to all of you
            gypsy
          • Eric Roberts
            great job gypsy!
            Message 5 of 20 , May 3, 2009
              great job gypsy!

              On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 7:31 AM, gypsy <gypsyroserebel@...> wrote:


              --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote:
              >
              > Already there ;-)
              >
              > Eric
              >
              > On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 9:51 PM, Christopher Blackwell <myrddin@...>wrote:

              >
              > >
              > >
              > > It was once said that our purpose here is to fight
              > > for religious rights of our service men and women
              > > and vets with the VA.
              > >
              > > Well as the Heathens get on with their Hammer Project
              > > is anyone interested, or did we lose interest once the
              > > Pentacle was won. Some Heathens helped with that.
              > >
              > > Just curious.
              > >
              > > Blessed Be,
              > >
              > > Christopher
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              spoke with congressman Phil Roe yesterday... he has someone that is going to get back with me. He was speaking at a dinner the salvation army gave. The dinner was for our chapter 979 of the veitnam veterans association and the homeless vets staying there. My question to him was why cant the veterans plan ahead by telling what they want before something happens to them. Also asked why we just couldnt put what ever symble we choose for ourselves. Also mentioned a little of the story of the hammer and the pentacle. And of course the pagan headstone campaign. Although it was a question answer section so there was not a lot of time for details. They did talk with me after the meeting and got my name and number... So send good energy and lets see where it leads.

              sending good energy to all of you
              gypsy


            • Heather
              Not only have I already signed the Hammer Project s petition, I have already forwarded the information on to 2 other yahoo groups I m involved in, as well as
              Message 6 of 20 , May 3, 2009
                Not only have I already signed the Hammer Project's petition, I have already forwarded the information on to 2 other yahoo groups I'm involved in, as well as all of my Pagan friends and acquaintances. The information is also being published on The Pagan Institute's website, as far as I know.
              • Christopher Blackwell
                Gypsy, Thanks for the effort. Getting the hammer will be much the same as getting the pentacle. It will be a lot of people trying and doing a lot of different
                Message 7 of 20 , May 3, 2009
                  Gypsy,

                  Thanks for the effort. Getting the hammer will be much
                  the same as getting the pentacle. It will be a lot of people
                  trying and doing a lot of different things, until we find what
                  works and brings results.

                  My little bit is my newsletter. I happen to have people over in
                  Pagan Federation International who are eager to get this out to
                  their Heathen members. So in Europe and other parts of the world
                  they will be following this battle, as earlier Wiccans world wide
                  watched the pentacle battle.. Who knows might inspire the same
                  fights for vets elsewhere.

                  The more people we can get to do a little the less we will have of
                  people doing so much they burn out. Good going on taking action.

                  Blessed Be,

                  Christopher

                  --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "gypsy" <gypsyroserebel@...> wrote:

                  > spoke with congressman Phil Roe yesterday... he has someone that is going to get back with me. He was speaking at a dinner the salvation army gave. The dinner was for our chapter 979 of the veitnam veterans association and the homeless vets staying there. My question to him was why cant the veterans plan ahead by telling what they want before something happens to them. Also asked why we just couldnt put what ever symble we choose for ourselves. Also mentioned a little of the story of the hammer and the pentacle. And of course the pagan headstone campaign. Although it was a question answer section so there was not a lot of time for details. They did talk with me after the meeting and got my name and number... So send good energy and lets see where it leads.
                  >
                  > sending good energy to all of you
                  > gypsy
                  >
                • Christopher Blackwell
                  Heather, Way to go. networking information is something that we all can do. Lets face it we all have different forums we like so if each can forward to their
                  Message 8 of 20 , May 3, 2009
                    Heather,

                    Way to go. networking information is
                    something that we all can do. Lets face
                    it we all have different forums we like
                    so if each can forward to their forums
                    we will cover a lot.

                    I haven't checked in a couple of days,
                    but I recall the petition was nearing a
                    thousand signatures last I looked. I was
                    signature number 9. I even beat Judy
                    Floyd who has been busy getting things
                    organized. I am hoping to have an
                    interview with their group in the Litha
                    issue of ACTION.

                    By the way any of the articles in ACTION
                    can be republished where people think
                    they might do the most good. I have
                    already told Judy that I am willing
                    to publish as many articles on the
                    Hammer Project as I did for the
                    earlier Pentacle Quest.

                    I want to send copies of them to the Druids
                    to see if that may help them in their task of
                    getting more organized for their Awen project,
                    unnamed as of now. As with the pentacle quest,
                    getting the start on getting organized is just as
                    difficult for other groups for the same reasons.

                    So they too need to know that there are others
                    willing to back them to the hilt. There are going to
                    be frustrations and mistakes even as there were
                    in the fight for the pentacle. So other communities
                    will need the same encouraegment Wiccans needed.

                    Heathens and Druids worked on the fight for the pentacle,
                    so as a Wiccan I have an personal honor debt to pay back..

                    So thank you for networking out the information. That
                    is how a grass roots movement gets launched. Food going.

                    Blessed Be,
                    Christopher

                    --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "Heather" <heather.greywolf@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Not only have I already signed the Hammer Project's petition, I have already forwarded the information on to 2 other yahoo groups I'm involved in, as well as all of my Pagan friends and acquaintances. The information is also being published on The Pagan Institute's website, as far as I know.
                    >
                  • Eric Roberts
                    I agree...they are a bit thick headed. Maybe they need another ass whooping in the courts ;-) It makes no sense to have to wait till someone dies. Why not
                    Message 9 of 20 , May 3, 2009
                      I agree...they are a bit thick headed.  Maybe they need another ass whooping in the courts ;-)  It makes no sense to have to wait till someone dies.  Why not get it approved (not that it should have to be approved...I think they forgot about the whole 1st amendment thing) before hand so the family only has to deal with buring thier loved one?  I still have major issues with them saying they have the right to determine oif a religion is frivolous.  I must have missed that day in Constitution clas that said the 1st Amendment guarantees freedom of religion, unless it is a frivolous one...
                       
                      Hailisa!
                      Eric

                      On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Christopher Blackwell <myrddin@...> wrote:


                      Eric,

                      Glad to hear that. It looks like the VA has not learned
                      much from the Pentacle quest. They still have not implemented
                      the new rules, which I believe was required within six
                      months by that court order.

                      Also the same excuse of not being able to do anything
                      about making a decision until a vet dies. No one should
                      have to fight the VA while grieving the death of a loved one.

                      Now I am hearing that the new rules, may allow any non
                      profit religious organization to request an emblem. I hope so.

                      I have not heard of new progress from the Druid in getting
                      their Awen symbol approved. Though I am going to have to ask
                      some of the few Druid that I know about that.

                      I intend to do articles on both as they develop. Seems like the
                      least that I can do. Once each religion has one emblem then
                      the way for variations, such as the Christians have may open.

                      Blessed Be,

                      Christopher

                      --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, Eric Roberts <woad@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Already there ;-)
                      >
                      > Eric
                      >


                    • Charles P. Arnold
                      ... Chris, you know where I stand. The thing is, the VA changed the rules, mostly because of us and the furor we created. What needs to be done now is for a
                      Message 10 of 20 , May 6, 2009
                        --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Blackwell" <myrddin@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > It was once said that our purpose here is to fight
                        > for religious rights of our service men and women
                        > and vets with the VA.
                        >
                        > Well as the Heathens get on with their Hammer Project
                        > is anyone interested, or did we lose interest once the
                        > Pentacle was won. Some Heathens helped with that.
                        >
                        > Just curious.
                        >
                        > Blessed Be,
                        >
                        > Christopher
                        >
                        Chris, you know where I stand. The thing is, the VA changed the rules, mostly because of us and the furor we created. What needs to be done now is for a Heathen veteran to die and have his legal representative apply for a hammer (a design the most Heathens agree upon) and then see what happens. If such an application is made and rejected, this group, as well as the now forming Pagan Veterans of the United States of America will definitely get involved.

                        Charles Arnold
                      • Charles P. Arnold
                        ... But those are exactly the rules that are now in effect. ... But that is exactly what the new rules say. They also state that a fight is not required,
                        Message 11 of 20 , May 6, 2009
                          --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Blackwell" <myrddin@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Eric,
                          >
                          > Glad to hear that. It looks like the VA has not learned
                          > much from the Pentacle quest. They still have not implemented
                          > the new rules, which I believe was required within six
                          > months by that court order.


                          But those are exactly the rules that are now in effect.


                          > Also the same excuse of not being able to do anything
                          > about making a decision until a vet dies. No one should
                          > have to fight the VA while grieving the death of a loved one.


                          But that is exactly what the new rules say. They also state that a fight is not required, merely an application. But if they do want to make a fight of it, we are perfectly prepared to grind them into the dust.


                          > Now I am hearing that the new rules, may allow any non
                          > profit religious organization to request an emblem. I hope so.


                          Then that is a change to the rules that I have not heard about.


                          > I have not heard of new progress from the Druid in getting
                          > their Awen symbol approved. Though I am going to have to ask
                          > some of the few Druid that I know about that.


                          To the best of my knowledge they do not have a deceased Druid veteran for whom a request may be made. I don't keep up with all the groups but Isaac Bonewits and I are pretty close.


                          > I intend to do articles on both as they develop. Seems like the
                          > least that I can do. Once each religion has one emblem then
                          > the way for variations, such as the Christians have may open.


                          Remember, those variations that the Christians have are for different organized denomination. Are there different ORGANIZED denominations of Wiccans? Heathens? Druids? Or aree there just different social groups - which the VA will refuse to recognize in accordance with their regulations.

                          Charles
                        • David
                          ... Charles, Could you provide a copy or link to the rules now in effect? I ve checked the VA s web site and don t see any instructions on how to request a
                          Message 12 of 20 , May 6, 2009
                            --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "Charles P. Arnold" <charlesparnold@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Blackwell" <myrddin@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Eric,
                            > >
                            > > Glad to hear that. It looks like the VA has not learned
                            > > much from the Pentacle quest. They still have not implemented
                            > > the new rules, which I believe was required within six
                            > > months by that court order.
                            >
                            >
                            > But those are exactly the rules that are now in effect.
                            >

                            Charles,

                            Could you provide a copy or link to the rules now in effect? I've checked the VA's web site and don't see any instructions on how to request a new emblem. They have bold notes regarding the eligibility of a marker, headstone or one of the new medallions but nothing obvious about asking for an emblem to be requested that's not on the list.

                            As I understand, the new rules which were posted for public review in 2007 have not yet been approved & adopted with the changes resulting in the public review.

                            Please share if you have info regarding any new rules on requesting a new emblem.

                            Thanks.
                          • Christopher Blackwell
                            Charles, No there are no Druid vets yet, nor Heathens, Interesting to hear that these are the very rules that were supposed to take place after the court
                            Message 13 of 20 , May 6, 2009
                              Charles,

                              No there are no Druid vets yet, nor Heathens,
                              Interesting to hear that these are the very rules
                              that were supposed to take place after the court
                              order, one gets so many different stories. There
                              is one story that Heathens and Druids might be
                              required to pay for their symbols. I wish I could
                              verify or disprove that story.

                              We need a good centraL source of information to
                              cut down on the confusion. It would help me and
                              other report to their members

                              I would rather like to see any recognised non profit
                              relious group to be able to arrange this in advance of
                              the vet dying. I would like to see this work smoothly
                              without any legal fight. Save wear and tear and cost
                              and future bad relations with the VA. So far it looks
                              like wait and see.

                              Blessed Be,

                              Christopher

                              --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "Charles P. Arnold" <charlesparnold@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Blackwell" <myrddin@> wrote:
                              > >

                              > But those are exactly the rules that are now in effect.
                              >

                              >
                              > But that is exactly what the new rules say. They also state that a fight is not required, merely an application. But if they do want to make a fight of it, we are perfectly prepared to grind them into the dust.

                              > Then that is a change to the rules that I have not heard about.
                              >
                              >
                              > > I have not heard of new progress from the Druid in getting
                              > > their Awen symbol approved. Though I am going to have to ask
                              > > some of the few Druid that I know about that.
                              >
                              >
                              > To the best of my knowledge they do not have a deceased Druid veteran for whom a request may be made. I don't keep up with all the groups but Isaac Bonewits and I are pretty close.

                              >
                              > Remember, those variations that the Christians have are for different organized denomination. Are there different ORGANIZED denominations of Wiccans? Heathens? Druids? Or aree there just different social groups - which the VA will refuse to recognize in accordance with their regulations.
                              >
                              > Charles
                              >
                            • Charles P. Arnold
                              ... Important Notice - New Law Concerning Eligibility for Headstones and Markers - Public Law 110-157, signed on Dec. 26, 2007, allows the Department of
                              Message 14 of 20 , May 7, 2009
                                --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "David" <celt3067@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Charles,
                                >
                                > Could you provide a copy or link to the rules now in effect? I've checked the VA's web site and don't see any instructions on how to request a new emblem.

                                "Important Notice - New Law Concerning Eligibility for Headstones and Markers - Public Law 110-157, signed on Dec. 26, 2007, allows the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) to furnish a Government headstone or marker for the graves of eligible veterans who died on or after Nov. 1, 1990, regardless of whether the grave is already marked with a privately purchased headstone or marker. Under the previous law, when the grave was already marked, only veterans who died on or after Sept. 11, 2001 were eligible. Public Law 110-157, also gives VA authority to "furnish, upon request, a medallion or other device of a design determined by the Secretary to signify the deceased's status as a veteran, to be attached to a headstone or marker furnished at private expense." This benefit will be available in lieu of a Government furnished headstone or marker, for veterans in privately marked graves who died on or after Nov. 1, 1990. We currently estimate the medallion will be available in summer 2009. Please continue to monitor the new medallion web page for updated information regarding this new benefit. Important: Eligible veterans are entitled to either a Government-furnished headstone or marker, or the new device, but not both. If you think you may be interested in submitting a claim for the new medallion, we will begin accepting claims once a contract has been awarded for the manufacture of this new product. Claim instructions will be posted on this website. If, after seeing the final new medallion design, you change your mind, you will still have the option to apply for a traditional Government-furnished headstone or marker. There is no change in eligibility for veterans in unmarked graves: Regardless of the date of death, VA will furnish, at no charge to the applicant, a Government headstone or marker for the unmarked grave of any eligible veteran in any cemetery around the world. Note: There is no charge for the headstone or marker itself, however arrangements for placing it in a private cemetery are the applicant's responsibility and all setting fees are at private expense.


                                > They have bold notes regarding the eligibility of a marker, headstone or one of the new medallions but nothing obvious about asking for an emblem to be requested that's not on the list.


                                Will post more soonest.


                                > As I understand, the new rules which were posted for public review in 2007 have not yet been approved & adopted with the changes resulting in the public review.
                                >
                                > Please share if you have info regarding any new rules on requesting a new emblem.
                                >
                                > Thanks.
                                >
                              • Charles P. Arnold
                                ... http://www.cem.va.gov/hm/hmemb.asp
                                Message 15 of 20 , May 7, 2009
                                  --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "David" <celt3067@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Charles,
                                  >
                                  > Could you provide a copy or link to the rules now in effect? I've checked the VA's web site and don't see any instructions on how to request a new emblem. They have bold notes regarding the eligibility of a marker, headstone or one of the new medallions but nothing obvious about asking for an emblem to be requested that's not on the list.
                                  >
                                  > As I understand, the new rules which were posted for public review in 2007 have not yet been approved & adopted with the changes resulting in the public review.
                                  >
                                  > Please share if you have info regarding any new rules on requesting a new emblem.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks.
                                  >
                                  http://www.cem.va.gov/hm/hmemb.asp
                                • Charles P. Arnold
                                  ... How to Complete VA Form 40-1330, Application for Standard Government Headstone or Marker Important Notice - New Law Concerning Eligibility for Headstones
                                  Message 16 of 20 , May 7, 2009
                                    --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "David" <celt3067@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Charles,
                                    >
                                    > Could you provide a copy or link to the rules now in effect? I've checked the VA's web site and don't see any instructions on how to request a new emblem. They have bold notes regarding the eligibility of a marker, headstone or one of the new medallions but nothing obvious about asking for an emblem to be requested that's not on the list.
                                    >
                                    > As I understand, the new rules which were posted for public review in 2007 have not yet been approved & adopted with the changes resulting in the public review.
                                    >
                                    > Please share if you have info regarding any new rules on requesting a new emblem.


                                    " How to Complete VA Form 40-1330, Application for Standard Government Headstone or Marker

                                    Important Notice - New Law Concerning Eligibility for Headstones and Markers

                                    "Block 12 indicates the emblem of belief desired. If not desired, please check "None". The approved emblems of belief are listed on the back of the form with a picture of those most frequently requested; pictures of all others may be viewed on our website at www.cem.va.gov."

                                    Block 13, 14, 15, and 16 identify the person who is assisting the next of kin with preparing the claim. This information must be provided. In case there is any illegible, missing or conflicting information on the claim, we will need to contact you to obtain complete and correct information. The headstone or marker request will be delayed or suspended if we cannot reach you by telephone, fax, or e-mail.

                                    Block 17 is for the signature of the person listed in block 13a, certifying the information about the deceased veteran is correct. This signature also certifies that the next of kin, or the claimant, is aware that the Government is not authorized to pay the cost of installing the marker in private cemeteries.
                                  • Charles P. Arnold
                                    ... Another urban myth and absolutely not true and can not happen for two simple reasons. You can t put items on VA headstones and the VA can t charge for
                                    Message 17 of 20 , May 7, 2009
                                      --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Blackwell" <myrddin@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Charles,
                                      >
                                      > No there are no Druid vets yet, nor Heathens, Interesting to hear that these are the very rules that were supposed to take place after the court order, one gets so many different stories. There is one story that Heathens and Druids might be required to pay for their symbols. I wish I could verify or disprove that story.


                                      Another urban myth and absolutely not true and can not happen for two simple reasons. You can't put items on VA headstones and the VA can't charge for headstones.


                                      > We need a good centraL source of information to cut down on the confusion. It would help me and other report to their members.


                                      Well, there are a few choices. You can ask here or you can ask Selena.


                                      > I would rather like to see any recognised non profit relious group to be able to arrange this in advance of the vet dying.


                                      Believe it or not, a vet can arrange this in advance of their death but, under the new laws, it is all arranged by individuals rather than organizations; which may cuase problems in the future. What I ask is that if anyone has applied for either a hemmer (or whatever) or an awen and they have had problems, post the information here so that it can be sorted out.


                                      > I would like to see this work smoothly without any legal fight. Save wear and tear and cost and future bad relations with the VA. So far it looks like wait and see.


                                      Yep.

                                      Charles
                                    • Christopher Blackwell
                                      charles, thanks for the information. I thought the idea of charging people was wrong, but it is sincerely believed by one of the people pushing for the hammer
                                      Message 18 of 20 , May 8, 2009
                                        charles,

                                        thanks for the information. I thought the idea of charging people was wrong, but it is sincerely believed by one of the people pushing for the hammer symbol and she gets quite upset when I say other wise.

                                        I will like to see how the VA actually handles the first case of eathr a heaten or a Druid. That will be the test of the reality.

                                        Blessed Be,

                                        Christopher

                                        --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "Charles P. Arnold" <charlesparnold@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        > Another urban myth and absolutely not true and can not happen for two simple reasons. You can't put items on VA headstones and the VA can't charge for headstones.
                                        >

                                        >
                                        > Believe it or not, a vet can arrange this in advance of their death but, under the new laws, it is all arranged by individuals rather than organizations; which may cuase problems in the future. What I ask is that if anyone has applied for either a hemmer (or whatever) or an awen and they have had problems, post the information here so that it can be sorted out.

                                        > Charles
                                        >
                                      • David
                                        ( Block 12 indicates the emblem of belief desired. If not desired, please check None . The approved emblems of belief are listed on the back of the form with
                                        Message 19 of 20 , May 12, 2009
                                          ("Block 12 indicates the emblem of belief desired. If not desired, please check "None". The approved emblems of belief are listed on the back of the form with a picture of those most frequently requested; pictures of all others may be viewed on our website at www.cem.va.gov.").

                                          To be clear, those instructions are on how to complete the form for a headstone/marker, etc. As you quoted, if a symbol is not on the list, check "None" This does not say anything about how to request a NEW emblem be added to the list. Only what to check to get a marker with no symbol if yours is not on the list.

                                          That instruction to request a new emblem be added to the list is still on hold at the VA. Until they approve the new instruction for adding emblems to the list, everybody is on hold irregardless of the emblem in question. When they put the process to add emblems on hold, there were two other groups awaiting approval - both Christian groups.

                                          My question might not have been clear enough. Not trying to be contrary - just wanting to make sure we all understand the accurate status of the process to add new emblems.

                                          Thanks,
                                          David



                                          --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "Charles P. Arnold" <charlesparnold@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "David" <celt3067@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Charles,
                                          > >
                                          > > Could you provide a copy or link to the rules now in effect? I've checked the VA's web site and don't see any instructions on how to request a new emblem. They have bold notes regarding the eligibility of a marker, headstone or one of the new medallions but nothing obvious about asking for an emblem to be requested that's not on the list.
                                          > >
                                          > > As I understand, the new rules which were posted for public review in 2007 have not yet been approved & adopted with the changes resulting in the public review.
                                          > >
                                          > > Please share if you have info regarding any new rules on requesting a new emblem.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > " How to Complete VA Form 40-1330, Application for Standard Government Headstone or Marker
                                          >
                                          > Important Notice - New Law Concerning Eligibility for Headstones and Markers
                                          >
                                          > "Block 12 indicates the emblem of belief desired. If not desired, please check "None". The approved emblems of belief are listed on the back of the form with a picture of those most frequently requested; pictures of all others may be viewed on our website at www.cem.va.gov."
                                          >
                                          > Block 13, 14, 15, and 16 identify the person who is assisting the next of kin with preparing the claim. This information must be provided. In case there is any illegible, missing or conflicting information on the claim, we will need to contact you to obtain complete and correct information. The headstone or marker request will be delayed or suspended if we cannot reach you by telephone, fax, or e-mail.
                                          >
                                          > Block 17 is for the signature of the person listed in block 13a, certifying the information about the deceased veteran is correct. This signature also certifies that the next of kin, or the claimant, is aware that the Government is not authorized to pay the cost of installing the marker in private cemeteries.
                                          >
                                        • Charles P. Arnold
                                          ... Suggest to her that she take the time to ask the VA directly. A headstone is a guaranteed benefit and it is free. If you want to use a symbol already
                                          Message 20 of 20 , May 13, 2009
                                            --- In Pagan-Headstone-Campaign@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Blackwell" <myrddin@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > charles,
                                            >
                                            > thanks for the information. I thought the idea of charging people was wrong, but it is sincerely believed by one of the people pushing for the hammer symbol and she gets quite upset when I say other wise.


                                            Suggest to her that she take the time to ask the VA directly. A headstone is a guaranteed benefit and it is free. If you want to use a symbol already approved, that, too, is free. If you want to include a symbol that is not approved there is only one consequence, the VA will not supply such a headstone. And if the grave is in a federal or most state veterans cemeteries, such a stone will not be allowed to be placed.


                                            > I will like to see how the VA actually handles the first case of eathr a heaten or a Druid. That will be the test of the reality.


                                            That is exactly what it will be and we are ALL waiting to see if they will follow through as promised. And if they don't, I, for one, do not plan to start at the beginning all over again but to take this struggle up exactly where I left off with the opening salvo being public protests and demonstrations at the VA, action brought through my local VFW Post and LOTS more.

                                            Charles
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.