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Re: Why?

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  • Vicky
    Dear Lord Wicca, Who says all pagans are wiccans? Wicca is but one of the many pagan religions out there, and as such you can keep your 161 laws! They are not
    Message 1 of 35 , Apr 15 5:42 PM
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      Dear Lord Wicca,

      Who says all pagans are wiccans? Wicca is but one of the many pagan
      religions out there, and as such you can keep your 161 laws! They are
      not just fighting for the pentagram, but for all pagan symbols - it's
      easier to begin with the pentagram is it's the most recognizable pagan
      symbol out there and the way I see it, it belongs to all pagans.
      Weather you like it or not, Gardner did adopt the pentagram and
      manipulated it into his gardnerian version, thus paving the way for
      all wiccans, whatever flavor, to adopt it, but seeing as it's
      solomonic in origin many pagan traditions can and do identify with it,
      each person relating to it differently as each individual should.
      There is no abuse of the symbol here!
      Gardner may or may not have wanted to keep the religion a secret, but
      keep in mind there was no freedom of religion back then, so there was
      not much of a choice. Gardner did many a strange thing : the 3-fold
      law being one. Did you know that was based on one of his sex fetishes?
      Don't believe me? It's published in a popular book by one of his
      founding cronies. I see it as a reason for guilt and to keep wiccans
      in line - damn, you may as well go back to the church. Is that some
      fine law or what? Not all laws are good laws and if you stick with the
      old, there is no room for evolution or improvement. Sticking with
      arcane laws doesn't necessarily make for a good wiccan, it takes much
      more work than that. Anyone can follow a bunch of laws if they cared
      to. Keeping religions (wicca) a secret in my humble opinion is based
      on fear, and I many other pagans are sick of hiding! I'm also sick to
      death of the wiccan snobbery that is abounding. I don't intend to
      sound harsh but in my experience most wiccans who scream for secrecy
      are the ones least educated.

      Why campaign? Because these military pagans fought for the rights you
      now enjoy and as such they should be afforded any pagan symbol they
      wish for on their tombstone! They are not fighting of equality after
      death but for their constitutional right!!! Not many people enjoy
      being buried under a blank or atheist tombstone, and if these vets
      wish for a pagan symbol of their choice, be it pentagram, chaos star,
      unicursal hexagram or whatever, then so be it. Why should they be
      denied their constitutional right?

      I personally find your words deplorable, but I guess it's within your
      constitutional right to say what you wish to say and to bash the vets
      that not only gave you freedom or religion but freedom of speech. So
      what you're really saying is that it was okay for these people to
      fight for your freedoms but damn them if they dare to fight for
      something that doesn't affect you? I can hear it now... how dare you
      fight for something that only military pagans will benefit from...the

      Why don't you do us all a favor and get off this list, you had your
      say, sadly, none of it constructive or positive. Pagans as it is have
      to fight for much of what is given to other citizens and it's a shame
      to see one of their own giving them the boot as well.

      ammo troop wife
      occult shop co-owner

      lord_wica wrote:

      First off, why even campaign for this? Pentacles on headstones... I
      think real Wiccans wouldn't bother to break one of the 161 Laws of
      Wicca just to recieve religious equality after death.
      blah blah zzzzzzzzz
    • Rosemary Kooiman
      Tantra, your style is magnificant, your points well thought out and your choice of words is a pleasure to read. Welcome. What part off the US do you call
      Message 35 of 35 , Apr 17 11:47 AM
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        Tantra, your style is magnificant, your points well thought out and your choice of words is a pleasure to read.  Welcome. What part  off the US do you call home?  rk
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 10:04 AM
        Subject: [Pagan-Headstone-Campaign] Re: Why?

        I am not Wiccan, due to the fact I study a much older tradition and
        in turn Im also eclectic...But for my own personal expression of my
        belief in the craft I have always worn the Pentacle/Pentagram....As
        you will see in this group,  there are followers of many traditions
        here  and we need to start somewhere for the rights of Pagans and
        using the Pentagram is a start.  Many traditions wear this symbol, 
        not  just  Wiccans....Also you might want to check your history a
        little more on Gerald Gardner and the man he was and what he hoped
        for the furture of Wiccan....First of all, Crowley was a student of
        Gardners, who in turn used the Craft/Wicca for his own
        gain....Gardner was not one to be totally secret...He and his coven
        did not want the craft in any way to be exploted  in any
        way...Gardner was a great teacher and through his associates helped
        to developed many a coven through out England and the world.......As
        to why this group should be here,,Because Im a Pagan Veteran  and it
        should be my right to have any Pagan symbol I choose to be on my
        headstone....whether its a Pentagram or a Ankh....Its all the Pagans
        on this list right..There are groups listed who have not been around
        as long as Wicca or  Paganism who have the right for their
        symbol....With the name Lord Wicca,  you look like a  person who was
        like Aleister Crowley,  a  man whos on a  ego trip and cares not for
        the welfare of all Pagans, but just your Wiccan self.  Please
        Wiccans, this comment was not directed towards you....Just this man
        who has no idea of what we are fighting for....Religious Rights and

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