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Re: Composing program?

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  • caldrich45
    Any professional program is going to be expensive. I would also look at Adobe s InDesign. Its multi-line composing feature sets type much more elegantly than
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 30, 2002
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      Any professional program is going to be expensive. I would also look at
      Adobe's InDesign. Its multi-line composing feature sets type much more
      elegantly than Quark with less manual fiddling. It will also hang punctuation
      and optically align type. If you have any background in quality typesetting,
      you will appreciate these features.
    • Roberta Lavadour
      I ve had good luck with Microsoft Publisher - a program that usually comes bundled with the other free software on most PC s. While not Quark, it works on the
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 30, 2002
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        I've had good luck with Microsoft Publisher - a program that usually comes
        bundled with the other free software on most PC's. While not Quark, it works
        on the same principle - text boxes and images boxes that can be layered,
        angled, and otherwise tweeked to create your layout and allows for kearning
        of text by hand. It also makes booklet layout and printing easy.

        Roberta

        Pendleton, Oregon
        paper@...
        http://www.missioncreekpress.com
      • Harold Kyle
        ... However Publisher reflows the text depending on the output device. Your service bureau doesn t output film on a laser printer but on an imagesetter, so the
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 30, 2002
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          On 10/30/02 4:19 PM, "Roberta Lavadour" <lavadour@...> wrote:
          > I've had good luck with Microsoft Publisher - a program that usually comes
          > bundled with the other free software on most PC's. While not Quark, it works
          > on the same principle - text boxes and images boxes that can be layered,
          > angled, and otherwise tweeked to create your layout and allows for kearning
          > of text by hand. It also makes booklet layout and printing easy.

          However Publisher reflows the text depending on the output device. Your
          service bureau doesn't output film on a laser printer but on an imagesetter,
          so the negatives that result from a Publisher file will not necessarily
          match what you see on the screen or on your hard copy. Publisher should only
          be used for output from your own computer.

          I vote InDesign for ease of use and control over text. Thanks to Quark 5, I
          think InDesign is finally catching on.

          Harold

          ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
          Boxcar Press
          Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
          640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
          315-473-0930 ~ phone and fax
          www.boxcarpress.com
          ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
        • Dan Franklin
          I use both Adobe InDesign and Quark XPress. A few points: (1) InDesign is superior to Quark in number and usefulness of typographic features. I think it is not
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 30, 2002
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            I use both Adobe InDesign and Quark XPress. A few points:

            (1) InDesign is superior to Quark in number and usefulness of
            typographic features. I think it is not too much to say that Indy is
            for the typographer's typographer. However,

            (2) Indy's multiline composer feature is slightly overrated; with a
            decently kerned OpenType font, I can usually set a better paragraph
            with the composer feature off. Your experience may differ from mine,
            of course, depending on how you like to do H&J (hyphenation and
            justification).

            (3) One Indy feature not supported in Quark is the ability to use all
            the functionality of OpenType fonts, like automatic substitution of
            all ligatures and automatic insertion of old-style figures and true
            small caps. The potential of this feature has been largely
            unrealized, however, since there are relatively few OpenType fonts
            available that support these features (and very few that aren't
            available as Postscript fonts). That having been said,

            (3) Most of my work is in Quark because our two main publishers
            insist on Quark files from us (so they can make last-minute and
            future-edition changes in house on the Quark systems they already
            have installed). Still,

            (4) I haven't upgraded to 5.0 from Quark 4.1, even though I regularly
            get cards from Quark offering to knock $100 off the upgrade fee. (I
            have received cards offering users of 4.0X an upgrade to 4.1 for
            $99--even as they're trying to sell them an upgrade to 5.0 for $199.
            This tells me that 5.0 is not flying off the shelves.) All this
            notwithstanding,

            (5) Most probably either of these programs will let (help?) you
            create whatever you want, as long as you know the rudiments of
            typography (i.e., have set type before on any kind of system,
            including handsetting) and are willing to spend some time with the
            program. On the other hand,

            (6) If you know very little about typography (or if you won't use the
            program very much and don't intend to create "fancy" or complex
            output), use software that is simpler and less expensive. Roberta
            Lavadour's suggestion of Microsoft Publisher is sound (like all of
            her advice); I assume that there is a way for a prepress operation to
            output film from a Publisher file (as a step before making
            photopolymer plates).

            Dan Franklin, who is now working on his fourth font library
            (Mergenthaler V-I-P film fonts, Linotronic digital fonts, Postscript
            fonts, and now OpenType fonts--not including some odd metal fonts and
            a goodly run of Kennerley foundry type (I guess that makes five!))
          • Bryan Hutcheson
            Quark is the ultimate program for layout and imposition. I¹ve been working with it extensively since version 2.12 . Depending on the length of your document
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 30, 2002
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              Quark is the ultimate program for layout and imposition. I¹ve been working
              with it extensively since version 2.12 . Depending on the length of your
              document and the style of your design, others include PageMaker (I call it
              RageMaker) Illustrator, Freehand, InDesign etc.

              If you are doing multipage layouts, especially long books, Quark is the
              ultimate. I recommend it to anyone just getting stated. I believe there are
              cheaper versions of Quark available through education. I know schools get it
              for a much cheaper price. If you are affiliated with any type of teaching
              you may be able to get it at a discounted price. Quark is expensive, but I
              assure you, once you¹ve suffered with Ragemaker you¹ll agree it¹s worth
              every penny they charge.


              Are you on a Mac or PC?


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            • Fontdr@aol.com
              I have been working with Quark for over 5 years and have gotten used some of the weakness such as saving to a pdf file. I gotten bitten by the InDesign bug and
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 30, 2002
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                I have been working with Quark for over 5 years and have gotten used some of
                the weakness such as saving to a pdf file. I gotten bitten by the InDesign
                bug and bought the 1.0, 1.5 and now 2.0. I still can't send a fax from that
                program . I have to make a pdf and send it by email.
                With all the considerations, I have just purchased Quark 5.0.
                I like the familiar Adobe tools with InDesign and have tried to send file to
                the service bureau. They do not have InDesign and have asked for Quark files.
                I think Adobe wanted to get away from Pagemaker 6.5; therefore, InDesign.
                The experiment wasn't that much of a success--the result was marketing
                Pagemaker 7.0 in order to appease the Pagemaker users.
                Bob Trogman
                Palm Springs, CA
              • Carole Aldrich
                Hi Bob From the bulletin board sites I have frequented, you can indeed send files to your printer from InDesign, You can either do it the old way, that is get
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 30, 2002
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                  Hi Bob

                  From the bulletin board sites I have frequented, you can indeed send
                  files to your printer from InDesign, You can either do it the old
                  way, that is get his printer driver and print to disk (i.e. create a
                  postcript file using his printer driver and the setup that he
                  specifies) or create a pdf file from InDesign. The trick to the pdf
                  file is that you have to create it for output to press and imbed all
                  fonts and images and keep the resolution of your images.

                  From what I have read, if you know what needs to be done, you can
                  easily educate your printer. I have worked in prepress and my printer
                  sometimes prefers a postscript file. The downside is that if they
                  need to modify it they can't. You will need to modify it and resend a
                  new postscript file. The upside is that the printer can't inadvertly
                  alter your file.

                  I hope this helps.

                  Carole A.
                  --
                  Carole M Aldrich
                  Voice 909.625.7722
                  Fax 909.625.9822
                  carolealdrich@...

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                • Fontdr@aol.com
                  I m operating with postscript printers and I had to find the proper driver for InDesign, but I still can t fax from the program. thanks for the advice, Bob
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 30, 2002
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                    I'm operating with postscript printers and I had to find the proper driver
                    for InDesign, but I still can't fax from the program.
                    thanks for the advice,
                    Bob Trogman
                  • Harold Kyle
                    ... Yes, I have the same problem. InDesign hasn t seem to have caught on among service bureaus here in Syracuse because most are running older rips. My
                    Message 9 of 14 , Oct 31, 2002
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                      On 10/30/02 9:58 PM, "Fontdr@..." <Fontdr@...> wrote:
                      > They do not have InDesign and have asked for Quark files.
                      Yes, I have the same problem. InDesign hasn't seem to have caught on among
                      service bureaus here in Syracuse because most are running older rips.

                      My solution which has worked 100% of the time from 2.0 is to export an eps
                      file and include the fonts with the outgoing file. The service bureau then
                      drops the eps in Quark for output. In ID 1.0 (and sometimes in 1.5) expert
                      font sets and/or kerning would not always survive this process (they were
                      both buggy programs IMHO). With this method in 2.0 you don't have to worry
                      about pdf profiles; however, as Carole mentioned, exporting a pdf is a
                      successful workaround as well, and the simpler approach for a document with
                      dozens of pages.

                      Prepress guys should be familiar with these workarounds and I wonder why
                      they don't do this for you. That's part of their job, after all. I assume
                      they're avoiding the liability of any mistakes, but this method has been
                      foolproof for me.

                      Assuming service bureaus can update their rip software, they will be able to
                      handle native InDesign files eventually.

                      On 10/30/02 6:05 PM, "Dan Franklin" <dan@...> wrote:
                      > I assume that there is a way for a prepress operation to
                      > output film from a Publisher file (as a step before making
                      > photopolymer plates)

                      Yes, possibly by exporting a pdf you could accomplish this, in which case
                      you'll need to factor in the cost of Acrobat as well. Perhaps also there is
                      a way to set up the imagesetter's ppd on the designer's computer, so that
                      he/she can see exactly what the service bureau will output? Would this work?

                      I've had some bad experiences with Publisher files that clients have
                      supplied, so I may be biased; however it seems to me that line breaks and
                      page breaks are an important part of a publication's design, and should be
                      integral a file saved in whatever design program you plan to use. Publisher
                      does not allow this to my knowledge.

                      Harold

                      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                      Boxcar Press
                      Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
                      640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
                      315-473-0930 ~ phone and fax
                      www.boxcarpress.com
                      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                    • caldrich45
                      I have also worked prepress, and don t get me on my soapbox, but Microsoft Publisher is not a professional program and most prepress people with groan with
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 31, 2002
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                        I have also worked prepress, and don't get me on my soapbox, but Microsoft
                        Publisher is not a professional program and most prepress people with groan
                        with agony at having to deal with those files. Although I sympathize with your
                        predicament regarding cost, you are about to embark on a hobby that has a
                        long history of fine craft associated with it. If you aren't willing to do what it
                        takes to use professional tools, please, just use lead type and the old tools.

                        The one program that you can afford, I believe is Adobe Photoshop Elements.
                        It is primarily a photo editing tool, but has text tools that I believe will keep
                        the type on a vector editable layer as the full version of Photoshop 7 does.
                        You would not want to publish a book with this tool, but it will be adequate
                        for notes, invitations, letterheads etc. and greeting cards. It costs $99 and is
                        available for the Mac and PC platforms. Your service bureau will thank you.
                      • Roberta Lavadour
                        ... groan ... In an off-list message to the original poster, I noted that Publisher is a great tool if you *don t* plan to have service bureau negs made (and
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 31, 2002
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                          > I have also worked prepress, and don't get me on my soapbox, but Microsoft
                          > Publisher is not a professional program and most prepress people with
                          groan
                          > with agony at having to deal with those files

                          In an off-list message to the original poster, I noted that Publisher is a
                          great tool if you *don't* plan to have service bureau negs made (and should
                          have mentioned that in my other post).

                          My experience has been with creating negatives on acetate with a high
                          resolution laser printer - something that isn't suitable for most text but
                          sometimes more than adequate for images and/or bolder, rustic text that can
                          absorb the inconsistencies. (used for artist's books which I wouldn't try to
                          pass if off as "fine press" work)

                          with best wishes,
                          Roberta

                          Pendleton, Oregon
                          paper@...
                          http://www.missioncreekpress.com
                        • Katie Harper
                          I am working on a translation of one of my letterpress books into French, and am wondering if there is anyone on this list who can help. Please contact me
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 5, 2002
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                            I am working on a translation of one of my letterpress books into French,
                            and am wondering if there is anyone on this list who can help. Please
                            contact me offlist. Thanks.


                            Katie Harper
                            Ars Brevis Press
                            Cincinnati, OH
                            513-233-9588
                            http://www.arsbrevispress.com
                          • ANDREAS PRIVE
                            ... Hi Katie I speak french and live in Geneva Andreas Schweizer 8, rue de la Puiserande 1205 Genève- Switzerland T: + 41 22 320 56 28 F: + 41 22 320 56 28
                            Message 13 of 14 , Nov 11, 2002
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                              Le 5.11.2002 19:44, « Katie Harper » <knharper@...> a écrit :

                              > I am working on a translation of one of my letterpress books into French,
                              > and am wondering if there is anyone on this list who can help. Please
                              > contact me offlist. Thanks.
                              >
                              >
                              > Katie Harper
                              > Ars Brevis Press
                              > Cincinnati, OH
                              > 513-233-9588
                              > http://www.arsbrevispress.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                              Hi Katie I speak french and live in Geneva
                              Andreas Schweizer
                              8, rue de la Puiserande
                              1205 Genève- Switzerland
                              T: + 41 22 320 56 28
                              F: + 41 22 320 56 28
                              P: + 41 79 304 14 64
                              URL: http://www.letterpress.ch
                              Work mail: andreas.schweizer@...
                              Private mail: andreasschweizer@...




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