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mouse aches...

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  • Harold Kyle
    This is more of a computer issue than a polymer plate issue, but in the course of preparing polymer plates I have a problem... Does anyone on the list have a
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 23, 2002
      This is more of a computer issue than a polymer plate issue, but in the
      course of preparing polymer plates I have a problem...

      Does anyone on the list have a solution to the wrist pain that accompanies
      hours of using a computer's mouse? Most of the time I feel the pain when I'm
      retouching scans, but also when I'm noodling in Illustrator and
      Quark/Indesign. I wonder if a pressure sensitive tablet might help my wrist
      out. Does anyone have a recommendation for an ergonomic method for design
      work? I have a G4 Powermac running OS X, and currently use a Microsoft
      Optical mouse on the desk to the right of my keyboard.

      Thanks for any input!

      Harold

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
      Boxcar Press
      Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
      640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
      315-473-0930 ~ phone and fax
      www.boxcarpress.com
      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    • esslemont@aol.com
      Harold - What you need is a wrist rest or wrist pillow . Take a look at you computer supplier s office ergonmics/sundries pages. I don t use one regularly
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 23, 2002
        Harold - What you need is a 'wrist rest' or 'wrist pillow'. Take a look at
        you computer supplier's office ergonmics/sundries pages.
        I don't use one regularly but have been forced to improvise during long
        stints.
        DAvid
      • ScottB9411@aol.com
        I recommend a tablet, it s much easier on your hand and wrist for prolonged use.
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 23, 2002
          I recommend a tablet, it's much easier on your hand and wrist for prolonged
          use.
        • Susan Angebranndt
          I have the same wrist problems. First, my chair makes a huge difference -- get one with adjustable arms (in, out as well as up and down). I also tried a track
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 23, 2002
            I have the same wrist problems. First, my chair makes a huge
            difference -- get one with adjustable arms (in, out as well as up and
            down). I also tried a track ball, which helped, but got dirty all the
            time and finally I broke it trying to get the gunk out of the little
            rollers.

            Then I got a Wacom tablet with mouse and stylus and an "articulated"
            arm to mount it on
            (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh1.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___5186___BO2935___REG___CatID=0___SID=F148688D0C0)
            I mounted the arm under my desk, to the right of my
            computer/keyboard. Then I attached a metal plate to the top of the
            arm and attached the tablet using velcro. So the tablet is now about
            the same height as the keyboard (it's resting directly below the
            number pad, in the space between my keyboard and chair arm). So
            instead of reaching up for the mouse, my arm, wrist & hand now rest
            on the arm of my chair. This setup has eliminated all my wrist
            problems.

            >This is more of a computer issue than a polymer plate issue, but in the
            >course of preparing polymer plates I have a problem...
            >
            >Does anyone on the list have a solution to the wrist pain that accompanies
            >hours of using a computer's mouse? Most of the time I feel the pain when I'm
            >retouching scans, but also when I'm noodling in Illustrator and
            >Quark/Indesign. I wonder if a pressure sensitive tablet might help my wrist
            >out. Does anyone have a recommendation for an ergonomic method for design
            >work? I have a G4 Powermac running OS X, and currently use a Microsoft
            >Optical mouse on the desk to the right of my keyboard.
            >
            >Thanks for any input!
            >
            >Harold
            >
            >~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
            >Boxcar Press
            >Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
            >640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
            >315-473-0930 ~ phone and fax
            >www.boxcarpress.com
            >~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
            >
            >
            >
            >ï To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
            >PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            >ï Encountering problems? contact:
            >PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
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            >PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

            --
            ----------------

            Not very anxious
            to bloom,
            my plum tree.
            -- Issa
          • Bryce Erickson
            Does anyone on the list have a solution to the wrist pain that accompanies hours of using a computer s mouse? Harold, Another option for incipient Carpal
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 23, 2002
              Does anyone on the list have a solution to the wrist
              pain that accompanies
              hours of using a computer's mouse?

              Harold,
              Another option for incipient Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (CTS) is a
              trackball. The one on my desk is a Kensington TurboBall. My wrist
              rests, relaxed, on a gel-filled support while my fingers move the ball
              and click the appropriate buttons. After using several trackballs, my
              preference is for one that has a 'pool cue ball' sized ball in it. I
              avoid the ones that have a ball that looks like a deodorant applicator.
              I was well along the road to surgery for CTS but avoided that
              unpleasantness when I started using a trackball.

              Regards,
              Bryce Erickson
              Saskatoon SK Canada
            • Tom Moertel
              ... Harold, First, take these symptoms seriously; don t ignore them. Your body is telling you something. Small changes in the way use your computer now can
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 23, 2002
                Harold Kyle wrote:
                >
                > Does anyone on the list have a solution to the wrist pain that accompanies
                > hours of using a computer's mouse? Most of the time I feel the pain when I'm
                > retouching scans, but also when I'm noodling in Illustrator and
                > Quark/Indesign. [...]

                Harold,

                First, take these symptoms seriously; don't ignore them. Your body is
                telling you something. Small changes in the way use your computer now
                can avoid much pain and suffering later. (I write software for a
                living, and other programmers have told me horror stories about what
                happened to them when they ignored the pain for too long.)

                Second, get this book, read it, and keep it near your computer:

                Zap! How Your Computer Can Hurt You --
                and What You Can Do About It
                Don Sellers, Stephen F. Roth (editor)
                ISBN 1-56609-021-0

                You can pick up a used copy for about $3.50:

                http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1566090210

                For immediate information, Cornell University provides a list of
                guidelines for arranging a computer workstation:

                http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/ergoguide.html

                Also, the Cornell University Ergonomics Web lists a number of other
                sites that provide helpful ergonomics information:

                http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/cuinterest.html

                Cheers,
                Tom
              • Katie Harper
                Thanks for posting that URL below. I found it very useful, and I agree: don t take symptoms of Carpal Tunnel lightly! We can t afford to lose you, Harold! I
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 23, 2002
                  Thanks for posting that URL below. I found it very useful, and I agree:
                  don't take symptoms of Carpal Tunnel lightly! We can't afford to lose you,
                  Harold! I think the best advice is to stop what you are doing or do it
                  another way (via tablet or trackball; I personally prefer the tablet). There
                  are also some exercises that I was given once for this problem, involving
                  putting your hands together (sort of shaking hands with yourself) and trying
                  to pull them apart (tug of war with yourself). After you get to know
                  yourself better, you can move on to other things....



                  Katie Harper
                  Ars Brevis Press
                  Cincinnati, OH
                  513-233-9588
                  http://www.arsbrevispress.com





                  > From: Tom Moertel <tom-lists-ppletterpress@...>
                  > Organization: Moertel Consulting
                  > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:30:15 -0400
                  > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] mouse aches...
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Harold Kyle wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Does anyone on the list have a solution to the wrist pain that accompanies
                  >> hours of using a computer's mouse? Most of the time I feel the pain when I'm
                  >> retouching scans, but also when I'm noodling in Illustrator and
                  >> Quark/Indesign. [...]
                  >
                  > Harold,
                  >
                  > First, take these symptoms seriously; don't ignore them. Your body is
                  > telling you something. Small changes in the way use your computer now
                  > can avoid much pain and suffering later. (I write software for a
                  > living, and other programmers have told me horror stories about what
                  > happened to them when they ignored the pain for too long.)
                  >
                  > Second, get this book, read it, and keep it near your computer:
                  >
                  > Zap! How Your Computer Can Hurt You --
                  > and What You Can Do About It
                  > Don Sellers, Stephen F. Roth (editor)
                  > ISBN 1-56609-021-0
                  >
                  > You can pick up a used copy for about $3.50:
                  >
                  > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1566090210
                  >
                  > For immediate information, Cornell University provides a list of
                  > guidelines for arranging a computer workstation:
                  >
                  > http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/ergoguide.html
                  >
                  > Also, the Cornell University Ergonomics Web lists a number of other
                  > sites that provide helpful ergonomics information:
                  >
                  > http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/cuinterest.html
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  > Tom
                  >
                  >
                  > ? To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                  > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  > ? Encountering problems? contact:
                  > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                  > ? To unsubscribe:
                  > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Katie Harper
                  I need to buy a new laser printer and am looking for recommendations from the list. Specifically, I d like to find a machine that will give me fairly accurate
                  Message 8 of 16 , Oct 24, 2002
                    I need to buy a new laser printer and am looking for recommendations from
                    the list. Specifically, I'd like to find a machine that will give me fairly
                    accurate proofs as far as polymer plates are concerned (assuming that I get
                    them done professionally).

                    I realize that most laser printers are 1200 dpi, and that service bureau
                    output is higher, so it won't be entirely possible to get a dead on accurate
                    proof. (I recently read that with line out, you don't get higher than 1200
                    output even on a high resolution imagesetter.) Letterpress printing factors
                    also will change things so that a laser print may not match the final
                    letterpress printed piece. Right now, I'm working with a 600 dpi printer,
                    which in many cases works okay, but in others is not accurate enough for me
                    to tell exactly what the plate will look like when I get it back. Is getting
                    accurate proofs simply a matter of going to a 1200 dpi printer, or are other
                    factors involved? Thanks for any advice/recommendations.

                    Katie Harper
                    Ars Brevis Press
                    Cincinnati, OH
                    513-233-9588
                    http://www.arsbrevispress.com
                  • Harold Kyle
                    Thanks for all the advice, everyone. The Cornell site was very helpful. I think I can trace my problems to violating all 10 of the mouse tips. Each and every
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 24, 2002
                      Thanks for all the advice, everyone. The Cornell site was very helpful. I
                      think I can trace my problems to violating all 10 of the mouse tips. Each
                      and every one. Sitting with poor posture in a cheap, armless chair can't
                      help either.

                      I think I might try out a trackball before I drop the money for a tablet.
                      But has anyone on the list who's bought a tablet had a negative experience
                      with it? Tablets sound universally loved.

                      Thanks!
                      Harold


                      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                      Boxcar Press
                      Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
                      640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
                      315-473-0930 ~ phone and fax
                      www.boxcarpress.com
                      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                    • The Indian Hill Press
                      Harold: Quit stalling and buy the darn tablet, already! I tried a trackball and now it s collecting dust. My Wacom tablet, however, gets constant use.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 24, 2002
                        Harold:

                        Quit stalling and buy the darn tablet, already!

                        I tried a trackball and now it's collecting dust. My Wacom tablet,
                        however, gets constant use. Trackballs can't draw worth beans.

                        Dan Waters
                        Indian Hill Press

                        >Thanks for all the advice, everyone. The Cornell site was very helpful. I
                        >think I can trace my problems to violating all 10 of the mouse tips. Each
                        >and every one. Sitting with poor posture in a cheap, armless chair can't
                        >help either.
                        >
                        >I think I might try out a trackball before I drop the money for a tablet.
                        >But has anyone on the list who's bought a tablet had a negative experience
                        >with it? Tablets sound universally loved.
                        >
                        >Thanks!
                        >Harold
                      • Robert McGonigle
                        HP is the way as far as I m concerned. Do not even look at Brother. I purchased a Brother a few years ago only to have the drum wear out with in a year and
                        Message 11 of 16 , Oct 25, 2002
                          HP is the way as far as I'm concerned. Do not even
                          look at "Brother." I purchased a Brother a few years
                          ago only to have the drum wear out with in a year and
                          to replace it was very expensive. A repair guy told
                          me that my model was specifically built for quick
                          sales because it was inexpensive. Never again will I
                          buy from that company.

                          Bob McGonigle


                          --- Katie Harper <knharper@...> wrote:
                          > I need to buy a new laser printer and am looking for
                          > recommendations from
                          > the list. Specifically, I'd like to find a machine
                          > that will give me fairly
                          > accurate proofs as far as polymer plates are
                          > concerned (assuming that I get
                          > them done professionally).
                          >
                          > I realize that most laser printers are 1200 dpi, and
                          > that service bureau
                          > output is higher, so it won't be entirely possible
                          > to get a dead on accurate
                          > proof. (I recently read that with line out, you
                          > don't get higher than 1200
                          > output even on a high resolution imagesetter.)
                          > Letterpress printing factors
                          > also will change things so that a laser print may
                          > not match the final
                          > letterpress printed piece. Right now, I'm working
                          > with a 600 dpi printer,
                          > which in many cases works okay, but in others is not
                          > accurate enough for me
                          > to tell exactly what the plate will look like when I
                          > get it back. Is getting
                          > accurate proofs simply a matter of going to a 1200
                          > dpi printer, or are other
                          > factors involved? Thanks for any
                          > advice/recommendations.
                          >
                          > Katie Harper
                          > Ars Brevis Press
                          > Cincinnati, OH
                          > 513-233-9588
                          > http://www.arsbrevispress.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


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                        • Gerald Lange
                          ... from ... fairly ... that I get ... accurate ... than 1200 ... factors ... printer, ... for me ... getting ... are other ... Hi Katie I ve always bought
                          Message 12 of 16 , Oct 25, 2002
                            --- In PPLetterpress@y..., Katie Harper <knharper@f...> wrote:
                            > I need to buy a new laser printer and am looking for recommendations
                            from
                            > the list. Specifically, I'd like to find a machine that will give me
                            fairly
                            > accurate proofs as far as polymer plates are concerned (assuming
                            that I get
                            > them done professionally).
                            >
                            > I realize that most laser printers are 1200 dpi, and that service bureau
                            > output is higher, so it won't be entirely possible to get a dead on
                            accurate
                            > proof. (I recently read that with line out, you don't get higher
                            than 1200
                            > output even on a high resolution imagesetter.) Letterpress printing
                            factors
                            > also will change things so that a laser print may not match the final
                            > letterpress printed piece. Right now, I'm working with a 600 dpi
                            printer,
                            > which in many cases works okay, but in others is not accurate enough
                            for me
                            > to tell exactly what the plate will look like when I get it back. Is
                            getting
                            > accurate proofs simply a matter of going to a 1200 dpi printer, or
                            are other
                            > factors involved? Thanks for any advice/recommendations.
                            >
                            > Katie Harper
                            > Ars Brevis Press
                            > Cincinnati, OH
                            > 513-233-9588
                            > http://www.arsbrevispress.com

                            Hi Katie

                            I've always bought HP's and have been quite satisfied. I run a 5000N
                            (1200dpi) right now (think it has recently been discontinued) and
                            before that a 4M (600dpi) which was great. Before that one of the
                            first HP deskjets at 600dpi. I think that for kerning it really
                            doesn't matter, each will give you the relative spatial value (and
                            that won't change when you go to imagesetter). I think letterpress
                            visually turns it back into a similar 600dpi but since most printers
                            are now at 1200dpi, why not get the best printer you can afford at
                            that? The best thing about 1200dpi is that it is camera-ready so that
                            you can do production work right from the printer.

                            Gerald
                          • caldrich45
                            I have been working as a graphic designer for many years and use a 600 dpi laser printer to proof all my work that is to be output to a high resolution
                            Message 13 of 16 , Oct 31, 2002
                              I have been working as a graphic designer for many years and use a 600 dpi
                              laser printer to proof all my work that is to be output to a high resolution
                              imagesetter and there is no discrepancy in output other than resolution. I see
                              no reason why this is not adequate for proofing files destined for letterpress.
                              The key is to use a Postscript printer, since the programs that most use to
                              create their files produce Postscript. They will not image properly to a
                              non-postcript printer no matter what the resolution.

                              The workaround is to use pdf files. They will image correctly to a
                              non-postscript printer.

                              Although I am new to letterpress, I have been creating files for many years
                              that image at high resolution. Unless one of the letterpress pros out there
                              has a different experience, I believe that this is correct.
                            • Katie Harper
                              Thanks for the response. I have to report that I have found a very distinct difference in line art output between 600 dpi and 1200 or higher. The lines get
                              Message 14 of 16 , Oct 31, 2002
                                Thanks for the response. I have to report that I have found a very distinct
                                difference in line art output between 600 dpi and 1200 or higher. The lines
                                get thinner at the higher resolution, for example. Some have argued that
                                therefore the 600 dpi output, which spreads a bit, is actually closer to
                                what the letterpress printing will be like. So in that sense, perhaps it is
                                a good tool for evaluating artwork prior to sending it to a service bureau.
                                Normally, I want to keep the lines in line art trim, to accommodate the
                                inevitable spread of letterpress printing, especially with uncoated papers.
                                However, I have had occasions where the artwork came back to me too reduced
                                in body, causing it to print somewhat thin and weak, something I had not
                                noticed in the 600 dpi output.

                                I have other reasons for wanting/needing to replace my old workhorse
                                printer. Fortunately, most of today's new models are all 1200 dpi.

                                Here's another question: According to Robin Williams' book on scanning, when
                                line art is output to an imagesetter, anything over 1200 dpi is lost. Is
                                that true?


                                Katie Harper
                                Ars Brevis Press
                                Cincinnati, OH
                                513-233-9588
                                http://www.arsbrevispress.com





                                > From: "caldrich45" <carolealdrich@...>
                                > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:17:16 -0000
                                > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Laser Proofs?
                                >
                                > I have been working as a graphic designer for many years and use a 600 dpi
                                > laser printer to proof all my work that is to be output to a high resolution
                                > imagesetter and there is no discrepancy in output other than resolution. I see
                                > no reason why this is not adequate for proofing files destined for
                                > letterpress.
                                > The key is to use a Postscript printer, since the programs that most use to
                                > create their files produce Postscript. They will not image properly to a
                                > non-postcript printer no matter what the resolution.
                                >
                                > The workaround is to use pdf files. They will image correctly to a
                                > non-postscript printer.
                                >
                                > Although I am new to letterpress, I have been creating files for many years
                                > that image at high resolution. Unless one of the letterpress pros out there
                                > has a different experience, I believe that this is correct.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > • To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                                > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                > • Encountering problems? contact:
                                > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                > • To unsubscribe:
                                > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                                >
                              • caldrich45
                                Which Robin Williams book are you referring to? Adobe Press s Adobe Photoshop 7.0 Studio Techniques by Ben Willmore has an excellent section on page 150 on
                                Message 15 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
                                  Which Robin Williams book are you referring to? Adobe Press's "Adobe
                                  Photoshop 7.0 Studio Techniques" by Ben Willmore has an excellent section
                                  on page 150 on producing line art from scans. He also mentions the 1200 dpi
                                  limit.
                                • Peter Fraterdeus
                                  Also, highly recommended is Robert Bringhurst s _Elements of Typographical Style_ PF -- - AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa& @ Peter
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
                                    Also, highly recommended is Robert Bringhurst's _Elements of Typographical Style_

                                    PF
                                    --
                                    -
                                    AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa& @

                                    Peter Fraterdeus http://www.midsummernightstamps.com
                                    www.semiotx.com Magical Images from the Moon's Garden!

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