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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Material to make large printing blocks

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  • Erik Desmyter
    Barbara, The answer is that this block in beech-wood was only a test on speeds, etc... to learn what the possibilities and limitations are of the beech-wood
    Message 1 of 24 , May 4, 2008
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      Barbara,

      The answer is that this block in beech-wood was only a test on speeds,
      etc... to learn what the possibilities and limitations are of the beech-wood
      and to check the design and translation of every letter through the
      3-dimensional CNC software and how every letter survives the routing.

      Regards,
      Erik

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Barbara Hauser" <BarbHauser@...>
      To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 2:50 AM
      Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Material to make large printing blocks


      Wow, Erik, I'm impressed! I need to ask what I'm sure will turn out to
      be a dumb question, though: if the block is to be used for printing,
      why is it right-reading?

      Thanks,
      Barbara


      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Erik Desmyter"
      <erik.desmyter@...> wrote:

      I have also been experimenting with a CNC-router to make large size
      blocks or plates to print from on on my traditional iron handpresses.
      . . I have just made a small movie and some photos on an experiment in
      beech, see links below.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk4QmaU4JIg

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/desmyter1856/sets/72157604867473339/



      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • briannqueen
      Erik, Thank you for posting that video. Do you use the v-bit for all your cutting or do you start with end mills? Also what programs are you using? I have a
      Message 2 of 24 , May 4, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Erik,
        Thank you for posting that video. Do you use the v-bit for all
        your cutting or do you start with end mills? Also what programs are
        you using? I have a friend that makes brass dies for foil printing
        and he uses ArtCAM. I've watched him program images and text a number
        of times and it seemed fairly simple. The cost of ArtCAM of course is
        a problem.
        I just acquired a piece of Corian after hearing from another
        artist that it prints well. Other than its cost it seems to be the
        perfect candidate since it's designed to be machinable. Here in North
        America it's only sold to authorized fabricators who don't normally
        sell it in sheet form. A laminate of 6mm Corian and MDF planed to
        type high could be the perfect match combined with CNC technology, no
        variation in qualities or grain to worry about. I see on Wikipedia
        that Corian has several competitors, who I'm guessing may be cheaper.
        I'm also experimenting with 3mm white styrene sheet laminated to MDF
        which is considerably less expensive.
        Keep us posted on your progress and thank you for the pictures and
        video, they have inspired me!

        Brian

        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Erik Desmyter"
        <erik.desmyter@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have also been experimenting with a CNC-router to make large size
        blocks
        > or plates to print from on on my traditional iron handpresses. I
        can say
        > that this computer to plate technology has some potential &
        limitations and
        > there are many variables & tolerances in tools, software, material
        & machine
        > which make everything rather complex. The X, Y, Z axis feed speeds,
        the
        > router speed, the flatness of the material (no bowing allowed), the
        angle &
        > sharpness of the routing bits and the 3-dimensional software
        working from 3D
        > vectors isn't easy in combination with the specifics of letterpress
        type &
        > inking.
        >
        > I experimented with different materials and had the best results
        with
        > expensive materials like Corian (acrylic stone) but working in wood
        is fun
        > but challenging as every kind of wood has different
        characteristics. Routing
        > speeds should be lower to avoid heating up or burning the wood but
        avoiding
        > a burr or damaged edges isn't always easy because high routing
        speeds just
        > give the best sharp edges. Similar story on the X, Y & Z speeds,
        when you go
        > too fast quality goes down and when you go to slow the wood gets
        dark and
        > starts to heat up. And making a large plate with slow speeds takes
        hours...
        > I have just made a small movie and some photos on an experiment in
        beech,
        > see links below.
        >
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk4QmaU4JIg
        >
        > http://www.flickr.com/photos/desmyter1856/sets/72157604867473339/
        >
        > For very large plates I guess a good quality MDF would be good but
        I haven't
        > tested this yet. I am always interested in experiences from other
        folks
        > working in this direction with CNC technology.
        >
        > Best regards,
        > Erik Desmyter
        > Gent, Belgium
        > erik.desmyter@...
      • Lisa Davidson
        I can t believe all these printers using steamrollers! When did that start happening? Lisa ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 24 , May 4, 2008
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          I can't believe all these printers using steamrollers! When did that
          start happening?

          Lisa


          On May 4, 2008, at 9:20 AM, briannqueen wrote:

          > Erik,
          > Thank you for posting that video. Do you use the v-bit for all
          > your cutting or do you start with end mills? Also what programs are
          > you using? I have a friend that makes brass dies for foil printing
          > and he uses ArtCAM. I've watched him program images and text a number
          > of times and it seemed fairly simple. The cost of ArtCAM of course is
          > a problem.
          > I just acquired a piece of Corian after hearing from another
          > artist that it prints well. Other than its cost it seems to be the
          > perfect candidate since it's designed to be machinable. Here in North
          > America it's only sold to authorized fabricators who don't normally
          > sell it in sheet form. A laminate of 6mm Corian and MDF planed to
          > type high could be the perfect match combined with CNC technology, no
          > variation in qualities or grain to worry about. I see on Wikipedia
          > that Corian has several competitors, who I'm guessing may be cheaper.
          > I'm also experimenting with 3mm white styrene sheet laminated to MDF
          > which is considerably less expensive.
          > Keep us posted on your progress and thank you for the pictures and
          > video, they have inspired me!
          >
          > Brian
          >
          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Erik Desmyter"
          > <erik.desmyter@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > I have also been experimenting with a CNC-router to make large size
          > blocks
          > > or plates to print from on on my traditional iron handpresses. I
          > can say
          > > that this computer to plate technology has some potential &
          > limitations and
          > > there are many variables & tolerances in tools, software, material
          > & machine
          > > which make everything rather complex. The X, Y, Z axis feed speeds,
          > the
          > > router speed, the flatness of the material (no bowing allowed), the
          > angle &
          > > sharpness of the routing bits and the 3-dimensional software
          > working from 3D
          > > vectors isn't easy in combination with the specifics of letterpress
          > type &
          > > inking.
          > >
          > > I experimented with different materials and had the best results
          > with
          > > expensive materials like Corian (acrylic stone) but working in wood
          > is fun
          > > but challenging as every kind of wood has different
          > characteristics. Routing
          > > speeds should be lower to avoid heating up or burning the wood but
          > avoiding
          > > a burr or damaged edges isn't always easy because high routing
          > speeds just
          > > give the best sharp edges. Similar story on the X, Y & Z speeds,
          > when you go
          > > too fast quality goes down and when you go to slow the wood gets
          > dark and
          > > starts to heat up. And making a large plate with slow speeds takes
          > hours...
          > > I have just made a small movie and some photos on an experiment in
          > beech,
          > > see links below.
          > >
          > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk4QmaU4JIg
          > >
          > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/desmyter1856/sets/72157604867473339/
          > >
          > > For very large plates I guess a good quality MDF would be good but
          > I haven't
          > > tested this yet. I am always interested in experiences from other
          > folks
          > > working in this direction with CNC technology.
          > >
          > > Best regards,
          > > Erik Desmyter
          > > Gent, Belgium
          > > erik.desmyter@...
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Erik Desmyter
          Brian, I normally start with an end mill which works only in X & Y on a depth of for example 5mm and this one takes away most material and does first the rough
          Message 4 of 24 , May 4, 2008
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            Brian,

            I normally start with an end mill which works only in X & Y on a depth of
            for example 5mm and this one takes away most material and does first the
            rough work. In the last finishing step I use a 60 degree V-bits for all the
            edges and fine details and this one goes three dimensional X, Y & Z because
            you need the fragile sharp top of the V-bit to cut out the sharp edges and
            small details. I use several softwares including signmaking software very
            similar to ArtCam to finally come to a WinPC-NC file on which this
            CNC-router runs.

            Buying large panels of new Corian is indeed a problem but some authorized
            fabricators are selling their scrap on eBay at reduced prices and some less
            popular colors can go really cheap. In Europe there are some companies where
            you can order cut to size panels in all the different colors but this is
            still expensive. Another possibility could be 1 ¼" thick PVC which is used
            as a replacement for wood like this AZEK To Mill (ATM) which is made in
            sheet sizes of 4 ft x 8 ft:
            http://www.azek.com/viewProduct.php?id=12
            I don't know this ATM material here in Europe and haven't tested it but it
            looks interesting at first sight and is probably cheaper than Corian.

            Regards,
            Erik

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "briannqueen" <BQueen@...>
            To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 6:20 PM
            Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Material to make large printing blocks


            Erik,
            Thank you for posting that video. Do you use the v-bit for all
            your cutting or do you start with end mills? Also what programs are
            you using? I have a friend that makes brass dies for foil printing
            and he uses ArtCAM. I've watched him program images and text a number
            of times and it seemed fairly simple. The cost of ArtCAM of course is
            a problem.
            I just acquired a piece of Corian after hearing from another
            artist that it prints well. Other than its cost it seems to be the
            perfect candidate since it's designed to be machinable. Here in North
            America it's only sold to authorized fabricators who don't normally
            sell it in sheet form. A laminate of 6mm Corian and MDF planed to
            type high could be the perfect match combined with CNC technology, no
            variation in qualities or grain to worry about. I see on Wikipedia
            that Corian has several competitors, who I'm guessing may be cheaper.
            I'm also experimenting with 3mm white styrene sheet laminated to MDF
            which is considerably less expensive.
            Keep us posted on your progress and thank you for the pictures and
            video, they have inspired me!

            Brian
          • Joe Freedman
            I ve used a program called V-Carve to cut wood on a CNC. Its a great program: easy to use and pretty inexpensive. I can import eps files made on a mac and
            Message 5 of 24 , May 4, 2008
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              I've used a program called V-Carve to cut wood on a CNC. Its a great
              program: easy to use and pretty inexpensive. I can import eps files
              made on a mac and easily set the parameters in V-Carve. It drives my
              little Roland engraver directly with no post processor or dxf
              conversion.

              Website is http://www.vectric.com/

              I still haven't committed it for use on any projects but it seems to
              do a really nice job.

              Joe
            • Lamsland
              I ve been looking into CO2 laser engraving systems. Looks to be a great solution. You could make wood or metal plates. Very precise, lots of control and
              Message 6 of 24 , May 5, 2008
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                I've been looking into CO2 laser engraving systems. Looks to be a
                great solution. You could make wood or metal plates. Very precise,
                lots of control and horribly expensive. The company that makes an
                affordable smaller laser engraver will have a whole market to
                themselves I think.


                Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae

                On May 3, 2008, at 6:33 PM, Erik Desmyter wrote:

                > I have also been experimenting with a CNC-router to make large size
                > blocks
                > or plates to print from on on my traditional iron handpresses. I
                > can say
                > that this computer to plate technology has some potential &
                > limitations and
                > there are many variables & tolerances in tools, software, material
                > & machine
                > which make everything rather complex. The X, Y, Z axis feed speeds,
                > the
                > router speed, the flatness of the material (no bowing allowed), the
                > angle &
                > sharpness of the routing bits and the 3-dimensional software
                > working from 3D
                > vectors isn't easy in combination with the specifics of letterpress
                > type &
                > inking.
                >
                > I experimented with different materials and had the best results with
                > expensive materials like Corian (acrylic stone) but working in wood
                > is fun
                > but challenging as every kind of wood has different
                > characteristics. Routing
                > speeds should be lower to avoid heating up or burning the wood but
                > avoiding
                > a burr or damaged edges isn't always easy because high routing
                > speeds just
                > give the best sharp edges. Similar story on the X, Y & Z speeds,
                > when you go
                > too fast quality goes down and when you go to slow the wood gets
                > dark and
                > starts to heat up. And making a large plate with slow speeds takes
                > hours...
                > I have just made a small movie and some photos on an experiment in
                > beech,
                > see links below.
                >
                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk4QmaU4JIg
                >
                > http://www.flickr.com/photos/desmyter1856/sets/72157604867473339/
                >
                > For very large plates I guess a good quality MDF would be good but
                > I haven't
                > tested this yet. I am always interested in experiences from other
                > folks
                > working in this direction with CNC technology.
                >
                > Best regards,
                > Erik Desmyter
                > Gent, Belgium
                > erik.desmyter@...
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "briannqueen" <BQueen@...>
                > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 3:35 PM
                > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Material to make large printing blocks
                >
                > I own a CNC router (computer numerical control) which simply put is a
                > router controlled by a computer. I plan on using my machine to make
                > large wood blocks, as large as four feet by eight feet and smaller
                > ones
                > for my Vandercook SP15 press. We plan on printing the 4' x 8' prints
                > using a steam roller at a public event. I'm looking for help in
                > determining the best wood or printing surface for this purpose. I
                > could
                > use ordinary plywood of course, but it has a grain and leaves a burr.
                > Can anyone recommend a plastic that may be suitable? Detail on the
                > very
                > largest blocks is less of a concern but I want fine detail on the
                > smaller blocks. I'm aware of Resingrave which would be perfect except
                > that it would be much too expensive for the size of quantity I will be
                > using. I considered acrylic but it's kind of brittle and a pain to
                > machine. I figure there must be some kind of polymer out there that
                > will do the trick and not dissolve during cleanup. Any help would be
                > appreciated!
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • briannqueen
                Erik, I was excited to see your post about this new material that was thick enough to be planed down to type high. The website showed what appeared to be a
                Message 7 of 24 , May 8, 2008
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                  Erik,
                  I was excited to see your post about this new material that was
                  thick enough to be planed down to type high. The website showed what
                  appeared to be a solid dense plastic, so I quickly found the
                  distributor and then a store that sold the product, but unfortunately
                  it's not suitable for printing. It's most common use is as a
                  replacement for lumber to make decks, one side is smooth while the
                  other side has a faux wood grain finish, however even the smooth side
                  is covered with very fine pits. It appears as though it's a mixture
                  of plastic and sawdust or some kind of filler to reduce costs, but it
                  was worth a try!

                  Brian


                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Erik Desmyter"
                  <erik.desmyter@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Brian,
                  >
                  > I normally start with an end mill which works only in X & Y on a
                  depth of
                  > for example 5mm and this one takes away most material and does
                  first the
                  > rough work. In the last finishing step I use a 60 degree V-bits for
                  all the
                  > edges and fine details and this one goes three dimensional X, Y &
                  Z because
                  > you need the fragile sharp top of the V-bit to cut out the sharp
                  edges and
                  > small details. I use several softwares including signmaking
                  software very
                  > similar to ArtCam to finally come to a WinPC-NC file on which this
                  > CNC-router runs.
                  >
                  > Buying large panels of new Corian is indeed a problem but some
                  authorized
                  > fabricators are selling their scrap on eBay at reduced prices and
                  some less
                  > popular colors can go really cheap. In Europe there are some
                  companies where
                  > you can order cut to size panels in all the different colors but
                  this is
                  > still expensive. Another possibility could be 1 ¼" thick PVC which
                  is used
                  > as a replacement for wood like this AZEK To Mill (ATM) which is
                  made in
                  > sheet sizes of 4 ft x 8 ft:
                  > http://www.azek.com/viewProduct.php?id=12
                  > I don't know this ATM material here in Europe and haven't tested it
                  but it
                  > looks interesting at first sight and is probably cheaper than
                  Corian.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > Erik
                • lamsland1@comcast.net
                  Just had a wild thought, What about Delrin? Plastic metal substitute. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene check out the part about machining. It may
                  Message 8 of 24 , May 9, 2008
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                    Just had a wild thought, What about Delrin? Plastic metal substitute.

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene

                    check out the part about machining.

                    It may be on the pricey side for large sheets though.



                    -------------- Original message ----------------------
                    From: "briannqueen" <BQueen@...>
                    > Erik,
                    > I was excited to see your post about this new material that was
                    > thick enough to be planed down to type high. The website showed what
                    > appeared to be a solid dense plastic, so I quickly found the
                    > distributor and then a store that sold the product, but unfortunately
                    > it's not suitable for printing. It's most common use is as a
                    > replacement for lumber to make decks, one side is smooth while the
                    > other side has a faux wood grain finish, however even the smooth side
                    > is covered with very fine pits. It appears as though it's a mixture
                    > of plastic and sawdust or some kind of filler to reduce costs, but it
                    > was worth a try!
                    >
                    > Brian
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Erik Desmyter"
                    > <erik.desmyter@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Brian,
                    > >
                    > > I normally start with an end mill which works only in X & Y on a
                    > depth of
                    > > for example 5mm and this one takes away most material and does
                    > first the
                    > > rough work. In the last finishing step I use a 60 degree V-bits for
                    > all the
                    > > edges and fine details and this one goes three dimensional X, Y &
                    > Z because
                    > > you need the fragile sharp top of the V-bit to cut out the sharp
                    > edges and
                    > > small details. I use several softwares including signmaking
                    > software very
                    > > similar to ArtCam to finally come to a WinPC-NC file on which this
                    > > CNC-router runs.
                    > >
                    > > Buying large panels of new Corian is indeed a problem but some
                    > authorized
                    > > fabricators are selling their scrap on eBay at reduced prices and
                    > some less
                    > > popular colors can go really cheap. In Europe there are some
                    > companies where
                    > > you can order cut to size panels in all the different colors but
                    > this is
                    > > still expensive. Another possibility could be 1 �" thick PVC which
                    > is used
                    > > as a replacement for wood like this AZEK To Mill (ATM) which is
                    > made in
                    > > sheet sizes of 4 ft x 8 ft:
                    > > http://www.azek.com/viewProduct.php?id=12
                    > > I don't know this ATM material here in Europe and haven't tested it
                    > but it
                    > > looks interesting at first sight and is probably cheaper than
                    > Corian.
                    > >
                    > > Regards,
                    > > Erik
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >




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