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Re: Choosing a typeface

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  • Brandt K.
    After further review the joking iconoclast ( JI ) has decided that the corrected correct answer is Justin Howes Founder s Caslon (complete package). The
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 5, 2008
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      After further review the joking iconoclast ("JI") has decided that the
      corrected correct answer is Justin Howes' Founder's Caslon (complete
      package).

      The advantage Centaur has over Garamond is precisely that it is more
      nervous and beautiful, and therefore harder to use. It makes it more
      difficult for the beginner to make sloppiness invisible to himself.

      The JI has yet to develop a taste for modern renditions of
      Baskerville. He will confess, when sober, that the Didones don't
      appeal to him in general, and may reveal that his idea of progress
      from Bulmer is foundry Walbaum (not omitting the italic) and,
      sometimes, Perpetua.

      Not having experience with polymer, your joker can have no opinion of
      the merits of dftype's Rialto Pressa.

      with a wink (and another wink),

      Brandt

      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Incline Press
      <books.inclinepress@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > There is always a place for the iconoclast, but the joking
      iconoclast? I
      > > think not ­ it¹s too much all at once.
      > > So let¹s take this suggestion seriously, and at the same time ask,
      Brandt is
      > > the justification more than just ³because I like it².
      > >
      > > So long as we¹re not talking about designing straight
      advertisments, for which
      > > a different sense of display is required; although I do like
      Centuar, at the
      > > same time I think it¹s a bit too quirky to be the starting face.
      Why not go
      > > for Garamond which is so easy not to look foolish using, or
      Baskerville for
      > > the same reason, before heading for the Didones, if at all,
      through Bulmer and
      > > experience. (All Monotype)
    • Scott Rubel
      People who use high-end graphics programs aren t by definition so hot, either. If you don t have the eye for it, the most expensive tools will either make no
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 5, 2008
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        People who use high-end graphics programs aren't by definition so hot,
        either. If you don't have the eye for it, the most expensive tools will
        either make no difference, or make things worse.

        --Scott

        Julie Larson wrote:
        > For the record, I was being sarcastic about what I tend to see created using MS Publisher. Most often it is stuff that will make the eyes recoil in horror. Many people that use low end desktop publishing programs have no education or training in layout and don't seem to look at the whole of their design. This results in clashing elements and many examples of inappropriate typography. Color usage is also often horrid, at least to my taste.
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: "david@..." <david@...>
        >
        > Don't give the modern world too much credit--I see a lot of work that appears to be designed in Word, let alone MS Publisher... .
        >
        > On Tue 03/ 4/08 9:41 AM , Julie Larson entdesign@sbcglobal .net sent:
        >
        >> For what it's worth, I chose a typeface based on my perception of
        >> the "mood" it conveys. I view printed work as having a communication
        >> goal, and the typeface is a major factor in setting the stage for the
        >> viewer's mind before the words are even read. When I look through
        >> collections of typefaces, I see "personalities" and I use these to
        >> suit the content of the printed piece. The actual image of the letter
        >> shapes are a form of nonverbal communication.
        >> For example, Old English looks very formal and would not convey
        >> lighthearted party-going ideas. Matise (named after the artist's
        >> handwriting, don't know if it was ever a hot metal face) gives a sense
        >> of frentic energy. Certain scripts such as Palace Script convey
        >> elegance while others like Kaufmann convey casual feelings.
        >> When more than one typeface is used, the typefaces should, of
        >> course, work together. It is amazing (or not) in our modern world of
        >> MS P
      • david@sunnyoutside.com
        Julie, I was fully agreeing with you, and just taking the sarcasm a bit further. And Scott s point is spot-on, too. In some sort of reductive way I think maybe
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 5, 2008
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          Julie, I was fully agreeing with you, and just taking the sarcasm a bit further. And Scott's point is spot-on, too.

          In some sort of reductive way I think maybe that's why some people use Publisher instead of bothering with Quark or PageMaker or InDesign--they take a look at any of the latter and it seems too complicated. And, I suppose, the programs *are* daunting, at least if you're unfamiliar with terms and techniques.

          Some reciprocal cause and effect, then, between good layout and good layout programs, which folds right into Scott's point, I think.
          __

          David



          On Wed 03/ 5/08 9:01 AM , Julie Larson entdesign@... sent:
          > For the record, I was being sarcastic about what I tend to see
          > created using MS Publisher. Most often it is stuff that will make the
          > eyes recoil in horror. Many people that use low end desktop publishing
          > programs have no education or training in layout and don't seem to
          > look at the whole of their design. This results in clashing elements
          > and many examples of inappropriate typography. Color usage is also
          > often horrid, at least to my taste.
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: "david@... [1]"
          > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com [3]
          > Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2008 11:05:52 AM
          > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Choosing a typeface
          > Don't give the modern world too much credit--I see a lot of work
          > that appears to be designed in Word, let alone MS Publisher... .
          > On Tue 03/ 4/08 9:41 AM , Julie Larson entdesign@sbcglobal .net
          > sent:
          > > For what it's worth, I chose a typeface based on my perception of
          > > the "mood" it conveys. I view printed work as having a
          > communication
          > > goal, and the typeface is a major factor in setting the stage for
          > the
          > > viewer's mind before the words are even read. When I look through
          > > collections of typefaces, I see "personalities" and I use these to
          > > suit the content of the printed piece. The actual image of the
          > letter
          > > shapes are a form of nonverbal communication.
          > > For example, Old English looks very formal and would not convey
          > > lighthearted party-going ideas. Matise (named after the artist's
          > > handwriting, don't know if it was ever a hot metal face) gives a
          > sense
          > > of frentic energy. Certain scripts such as Palace Script convey
          > > elegance while others like Kaufmann convey casual feelings.
          > > When more than one typeface is used, the typefaces should, of
          > > course, work together. It is amazing (or not) in our modern world
          > of
          > > MS Publisher how often this is not true.
          > > ----- Original Message ----
          > > From: filmaker0012001
          > > To: PPLetterpress@ yahoogroups. com [2]
          > > Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 11:58:42 PM
          > > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Choosing a typeface
          > > I've read a couple of books on begining printing (letterpress) and
          > > the
          > > authors usually make a point of saying how they often picked the
          > > wrong
          > > typeface to begin with. I was wondering how other people choose a
          > > typeface for their work, or if there is a book on such.
          > > Respectfully
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > > Links:
          > > ------
          > > [1]
          > > http://www.aplusweb [4] mail.com/ javascript:
          > top.opencompose('fsmith01@rcn. com'
          > > ,'','', '')[2]
          > > http://www.aplusweb [5] mail.com/ javascript:
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          > > http://groups. [6] yahoo.com/ group/PPLetterpr ess/message/
          > 9437;_ylc= X3oDMTM0c2Q1a
          > > HY3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0 BGdycElkAzM4MDAx ODEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMx
          > NzA1Nzk4Nzc3BG1z Z0lkAzk0
          > > MzkEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGs DdnRwYwRzdGltZQM xMjA0NjQxNjg4BHR
          > wY0lkAzk0Mzc- [4]
          > > http://groups. [7] yahoo.com/ group/PPLetterpr ess/post;
          > _ylc=X3oDMTJwZ2p 0OTN1BF9TA
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          > Nzc3BG1zZ0lkAzk0 MzkEc2Vj
          > > A2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQR zdGltZQMxMjA0NjQ xNjg4?act= reply&messageNum
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          > > http://groups. [8] yahoo.com/ group/PPLetterpr ess/post;
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          > Nzc3BHNlYwNmdHIE c2xrA250
          > > cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIwNDY 0MTY4OA-- [6]
          > > http://groups. [9] yahoo.com/ group/PPLetterpr ess/messages;
          > _ylc=X3oDMTJldTM zNHBvB
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          > > A21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI wNDY0MTY4OA- -[7]
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          > 4Nzc3BHNlYwNmdHI Ec2xrA2Z
          > > pbGVzBHN0aW1lAzEyMD Q2NDE2ODg- [8]
          > > http://groups. [11] yahoo.com/ group/PPLetterpr ess/photos;
          > _ylc=X3oDMTJlZDd kbnBsBF9
          > > TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycE lkAzM4MDAxODEEZ3 Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nz
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          > > http://groups. [13] yahoo.com/ group/PPLetterpr ess/database;
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          > > A2RiBHN0aW1lAzEyMDQ 2NDE2ODg- [11]
          > > http://groups. [14] yahoo.com/ group/PPLetterpr ess/calendar;
          > _ylc=X3oDMTJkZWc 2cDFkB
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          > > A2NhbARzdGltZQMxMjA 0NjQxNjg4[ 12]
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          > cARzdGltZQMxMjA0 NjQxNjg4[ 13]
          > > http://groups. [16] yahoo.com/ group/PPLetterpr ess/join;
          > _ylc=X3oDMTJmbm8 2OWM3BF9TA
          > > zk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElk AzM4MDAxODEEZ3Jw c3BJZAMxNzA1Nzk4
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          > > http://www.aplusweb [17] mail.com/ javascript:
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          > X3oDMTJkYm5wcmpv BF9TAzk3Mz
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          > HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA 2hwZgRzd
          > > GltZQMxMjA0NjQxNjg4 [16] http://docs. [19] yahoo.com/ info/terms/
          > > [17]
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          > > 9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdyc ElkAzM4MDAxODEEZ 3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1N
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          > yahoo.com/ Women_Of_
          > > Curves_Everywhere
          > >
          > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
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          > Links:
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        • nagraph1
          It is sometimes interesting to see what noted type designers used for their own personal work. W.A. Dwiggins for his private press used 5 sizes of Bulmer and
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 5, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            It is sometimes interesting to see what noted type designers used for
            their own personal work. W.A. Dwiggins for his private press used 5
            sizes of Bulmer and his own 12 pt. Winchester. The later face was cut
            by Linotype as an experimental face and Dwiggins had 185 lbs of it cast
            as individual type from the Linotype matrices.

            Fritz

            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Julie Larson <entdesign@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > For the record, I was being sarcastic about what I tend to see
            created using MS Publisher. Most often it is stuff that will make the
            eyes recoil in horror. Many people that use low end desktop publishing
            programs have no education or training in layout and don't seem to look
            at the whole of their design. This results in clashing elements and
            many examples of inappropriate typography. Color usage is also often
            horrid, at least to my taste.
            >
          • Richard Wilson
            Hey Gang, This topic has been debated since desktop publishing became affordable in the late 1980s. As a design educator, I have heard the pros and cons of the
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 5, 2008
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              Hey Gang,
              This topic has been debated since desktop publishing became affordable in
              the late 1980s. As a design educator, I have heard the pros and cons of the
              trained vs untrained designer (obviously I lean towards the trained.) My
              feeling is that as letterpress continues to grow in popularity for
              practicing designers around the country, the quality of the design will
              improve.

              Occasionally, clients will use untrained designers to save some money, but
              they usually get what they pay for. In terms of books on type, I would
              recommend ³Typographic Design: Form and Communication² by Carter, Day &
              Meggs or ³Thinking with Type: A Critical Guide for Designers, Writers,
              Editors, & Students² (Design Briefs) by Ellen Lupton. We use both books for
              our intro classes.
              Ric



              On 3/5/08 4:20 PM, "Austin Jones" <austin@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The software package is a tool. It is no better than the person using it.
              >
              > I see this type of situation all the time. A person will buy the most
              > expensive printer, or software and expect it to be "plug & play". Plug it in
              > and work miracles. These people call me all the time. I bought the best I
              > could find. It doesn't do all these wornerful things. Why?.
              >
              > The problem is the nut at the keyboard not the printer or software.
              >
              > Austin Jones
              > prints by AJ
              > austin@... <mailto:austin%40printsbyaj.com>
              > http://printsbyaj.com
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Scott Rubel" <scott@... <mailto:scott%40invitesite.com> >
              > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com> >
              > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:50 AM
              > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Choosing a typeface
              >
              >> > People who use high-end graphics programs aren't by definition so hot,
              >> > either. If you don't have the eye for it, the most expensive tools will
              >> > either make no difference, or make things worse.
              >> >
              >> > --Scott
              >> >
              >> > Julie Larson wrote:
              >>> >> For the record, I was being sarcastic about what I tend to see created
              >>> >> using MS Publisher. Most often it is stuff that will make the eyes recoil
              >>> >> in horror. Many people that use low end desktop publishing programs have
              >>> >> no education or training in layout and don't seem to look at the whole of
              >>> >> their design. This results in clashing elements and many examples of
              >>> >> inappropriate typography. Color usage is also often horrid, at least to
              >>> >> my taste.
              >>> >>
              >
              >
              >


              Ric Wilson
              Assistant Professor of Art
              University of Missouri Columbia
              A126 Fine Arts Building
              Columbia, MO 65211-6090
              573.882.4076



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Austin Jones
              The software package is a tool. It is no better than the person using it. I see this type of situation all the time. A person will buy the most expensive
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 5, 2008
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                The software package is a tool. It is no better than the person using it.

                I see this type of situation all the time. A person will buy the most
                expensive printer, or software and expect it to be "plug & play". Plug it in
                and work miracles. These people call me all the time. I bought the best I
                could find. It doesn't do all these wornerful things. Why?.

                The problem is the nut at the keyboard not the printer or software.

                Austin Jones
                prints by AJ
                austin@...
                http://printsbyaj.com
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Scott Rubel" <scott@...>
                To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:50 AM
                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Choosing a typeface


                > People who use high-end graphics programs aren't by definition so hot,
                > either. If you don't have the eye for it, the most expensive tools will
                > either make no difference, or make things worse.
                >
                > --Scott
                >
                > Julie Larson wrote:
                >> For the record, I was being sarcastic about what I tend to see created
                >> using MS Publisher. Most often it is stuff that will make the eyes recoil
                >> in horror. Many people that use low end desktop publishing programs have
                >> no education or training in layout and don't seem to look at the whole of
                >> their design. This results in clashing elements and many examples of
                >> inappropriate typography. Color usage is also often horrid, at least to
                >> my taste.
                >>
              • Peter Fraterdeus
                It ain t the camera, it s the eye behind it ;-) However, having said that, there s a BIG difference between setting digital type with a professional app like
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 5, 2008
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                  It ain't the camera, it's the eye behind it ;-)

                  However, having said that, there's a BIG difference between setting
                  digital type with a professional app like InDesign or Illustrator
                  versus Publisher, et al.

                  Fractional line and letterspacing for example, hanging punctuation,
                  style sheet management, etc.

                  All of these are useless unless one knows why they are there, of
                  course, but even a great craftsman can be hobbled by lousy chisels.
                  Er, how many metaphors have I mixed here anyway!?


                  Peter Fraterdeus
                  http://ExquisiteLetterpress.com
                  http://dubuquebookarts.com


                  On 5 Mar 2008, at 4:20 PM, Austin Jones wrote:

                  > The software package is a tool. It is no better than the person
                  > using it.
                  >
                  > I see this type of situation all the time. A person will buy the most
                  > expensive printer, or software and expect it to be "plug & play".
                  > Plug it in
                  > and work miracles. These people call me all the time. I bought the
                  > best I
                  > could find. It doesn't do all these wornerful things. Why?.
                  >
                  > The problem is the nut at the keyboard not the printer or software.
                  >
                • filmaker0012001
                  Thanks for all the suggestions, I plan to start looking at some speciman books. ... the ... wrong
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 12, 2008
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                    Thanks for all the suggestions, I plan to start looking at some
                    speciman books.



                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "filmaker0012001" <fsmith01@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > I've read a couple of books on begining printing (letterpress) and
                    the
                    > authors usually make a point of saying how they often picked the
                    wrong
                    > typeface to begin with. I was wondering how other people choose a
                    > typeface for their work, or if there is a book on such.
                    >
                    > Respectfully
                    >
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