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Re: Further plate concerns....

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  • Gerald Lange
    Peter You might want to go here and read the information about setting exposure using the Stouffer Scale http://bielerpressxi.blogspot.com/ read the book I
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 7, 2008
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      Peter

      You might want to go here and read the information about setting
      exposure using the Stouffer Scale

      http://bielerpressxi.blogspot.com/

      read the book I sent you

      and go to the reference files here and download the PDF on Toyobo
      instructions for processing their plates.

      I suspect this information will save you a lot of grief.

      There is no magic to photopolymer processing, just follow the
      procedures as laid out by the industry. You really should not be
      experiencing all these problems.

      Gerald
      http://BielerPress.blogspot.com






      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
      >
      > Peter
      >
      > Well, the washout is way too long with this brand and size of plate (I
      > think I have mentioned this to you previously) but you are kidding
      > with this, aren't you? Imaging moving around on the plate!!!
      >
      > Gerald
      > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
      >
      >
      > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "pfraterdeus" <peterf@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Would excessive washout cause 'i-dots' and apostrophes to actually
      > move around on the
      > > plate??
      > >
      > > This is with K95 on Interflex A4
      > >
      > > 3.5 minute exposure
      > > 5 min wash
      > >
      > > It's very odd. The dot over one 'i' will move while another in the
      > same line stays where it
      > > should be.
      > >
      > > ???
      > >
      > > thx
      > > p
      > >
      >
    • Harold Kyle
      Your exposure is probably too short. What happens when you try a 5 minute exposure? As others have said a Stouffer gauge would help. Harold -- . . . . . . . .
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 8, 2008
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        Your exposure is probably too short. What happens when you try a 5
        minute exposure? As others have said a Stouffer gauge would help.

        Harold

        --
        . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
        Boxcar Press: Letterpress for the 21st Century
        501 West Fayette Street, Studio 222
        Syracuse, New York 13204
        (315) 473-0930 phone
        (315) 473-0967 fax
        http://www.boxcarpress.com
        . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
      • letterpress_man
        First thing you need to do is get the manufactures spec s on the plate and follow it as written except for exposure time, you need to get a Stouffer gauge and
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 8, 2008
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          First thing you need to do is get the manufactures spec's on the
          plate and follow it as written except for exposure time, you need to
          get a Stouffer gauge and use it to gauge your exposure and not a time
          limit. The manufacture should have this on there sheet. Once you
          get that right, expose your plates to that time and not to the time
          on the sheet as different machines will be different and bulb life
          makes a great differance. You also need to check this from time to
          time as bulbs decrease in output with age. The Stoufer Gauge will be
          well worth the investment and will eliminate a lot of problems.




          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "pfraterdeus" <peterf@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Would excessive washout cause 'i-dots' and apostrophes to actually
          move around on the
          > plate??
          >
          > This is with K95 on Interflex A4
          >
          > 3.5 minute exposure
          > 5 min wash
          >
          > It's very odd. The dot over one 'i' will move while another in the
          same line stays where it
          > should be.
          >
          > ???
          >
          > thx
          > p
          >
        • Peter Fraterdeus
          Gerald Many thanks for the info. Indeed, I was working off the info provided apocryphally with the plate maker, and the anonymous bits of polymer which came
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 8, 2008
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            Gerald

            Many thanks for the info.
            Indeed, I was working off the info provided apocryphally with the plate maker, and the anonymous bits of polymer which came along with it. Which, it will be apparent, are not the same type (mfr, scale, whatever) as the K95, et al.

            Must have just been lucky with the first handful I made in Dec and January, as all this trouble began in the past couple weeks.

            Practice makes perfect...
            Or as my musician friends say "Perfect practice makes perfect. If you practice the wrong things you just learn how to do it wrong"

            P

            At 6:19 AM +0000 8 02 08, Gerald Lange wrote:
            >Peter
            >
            >You might want to go here and read the information about setting
            >exposure using the Stouffer Scale
            >
            >http://bielerpressxi.blogspot.com/
            >
            >read the book I sent you
            >
            >and go to the reference files here and download the PDF on Toyobo
            >instructions for processing their plates.
            >
            >I suspect this information will save you a lot of grief.
            >
            >There is no magic to photopolymer processing, just follow the
            >procedures as laid out by the industry. You really should not be
            >experiencing all these problems.
            >
            >Gerald
            >http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
            >

            --
            AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
            {ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!}

            ExquisiteLetterpress http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com

            -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*
            Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
            Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood Type
            Dubuque, Iowa http://www.fraterdeus.com
            Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
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            http://youtube.com/user/pfraterdeus
          • Peter Fraterdeus
            Thanks All for the tips. I have a Stouffer gauge, will try it again to see what the issue is. Cheers pf ... -- AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 8, 2008
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              Thanks All for the tips.
              I have a Stouffer gauge, will try it again to see what the issue is.

              Cheers
              pf


              >First thing you need to do is get the manufactures spec's on the
              >plate and follow it as written except for exposure time, you need to
              >get a Stouffer gauge and use it to gauge your exposure and not a time
              >limit. The manufacture should have this on there sheet. Once you
              >get that right, expose your plates to that time and not to the time
              >on the sheet as different machines will be different and bulb life
              >makes a great differance. You also need to check this from time to
              >time as bulbs decrease in output with age. The Stoufer Gauge will be
              >well worth the investment and will eliminate a lot of problems.

              --
              AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
              {ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!}

              ExquisiteLetterpress http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com

              -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*
              Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
              Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood Type
              Dubuque, Iowa http://www.fraterdeus.com
              Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
              http://flickr.com/photos/pfraterdeus
              http://youtube.com/user/pfraterdeus
            • Peter Fraterdeus
              Hi Harold, et list Yep, 5 minutes give 14-15 on the Sto. scale. I think my post-exposure was therefore short also. (maybe 7-9 minutes?) Is there a pdf of the
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 8, 2008
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                Hi Harold, et list

                Yep, 5 minutes give 14-15 on the Sto. scale.
                I think my post-exposure was therefore short also. (maybe 7-9 minutes?)

                Is there a pdf of the Toyobo KF95 "TIPS FOR PRINTIGHT" which they refer to on their site?

                I sure can't find the specifics for exposure etc on the site for this material!

                Thanks a million!
                Peter

                >Your exposure is probably too short. What happens when you try a 5
                >minute exposure? As others have said a Stouffer gauge would help.
                >
                >Harold

                --
                AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
                {ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!}

                ExquisiteLetterpress http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com

                -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*
                Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
                Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood Type
                Dubuque, Iowa http://www.fraterdeus.com
                Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
                http://flickr.com/photos/pfraterdeus
                http://youtube.com/user/pfraterdeus
              • Gerald Lange
                Peter As I mentioned not more that three posts earlier, the Toyobo PDF is on site here (here meaning the PPLetterpress group site). Not sure how much more
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 8, 2008
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                  Peter

                  As I mentioned not more that three posts earlier, the Toyobo PDF is on
                  site here (here meaning the PPLetterpress group site). Not sure how
                  much more clearer I can make this. Go to the Files section.
                  Files>Reference materials>Toyobo Tips for Printight.pdf. Click on the
                  file and it will open.

                  Gerald
                  http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Harold, et list
                  >
                  > Yep, 5 minutes give 14-15 on the Sto. scale.
                  > I think my post-exposure was therefore short also. (maybe 7-9 minutes?)
                  >
                  > Is there a pdf of the Toyobo KF95 "TIPS FOR PRINTIGHT" which they
                  refer to on their site?
                  >
                  > I sure can't find the specifics for exposure etc on the site for
                  this material!
                  >
                  > Thanks a million!
                  > Peter
                  >
                  > >Your exposure is probably too short. What happens when you try a 5
                  > >minute exposure? As others have said a Stouffer gauge would help.
                  > >
                  > >Harold
                  >
                  > --
                  > AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
                  > {ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!}
                  >
                  > ExquisiteLetterpress http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com
                  >
                  >
                  -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*
                  > Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
                  > Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood Type
                  > Dubuque, Iowa http://www.fraterdeus.com
                  > Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
                  > http://flickr.com/photos/pfraterdeus
                  > http://youtube.com/user/pfraterdeus
                  >
                • Peter Fraterdeus
                  Ah, THERE it is. Thanks Gerald. I was looking in Links. Ciao P ... -- AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@ {ARTQ: Help stop in-box
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 8, 2008
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                    Ah, THERE it is.
                    Thanks Gerald.

                    I was looking in Links.

                    Ciao
                    P

                    At 9:47 PM +0000 8 02 08, Gerald Lange wrote:
                    >Peter
                    >
                    >As I mentioned not more that three posts earlier, the Toyobo PDF is on
                    >site here (here meaning the PPLetterpress group site). Not sure how
                    >much more clearer I can make this. Go to the Files section.
                    >Files>Reference materials>Toyobo Tips for Printight.pdf. Click on the
                    >file and it will open.
                    >
                    >Gerald
                    >http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                    --
                    AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
                    {ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!}

                    ExquisiteLetterpress http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com

                    -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*
                    Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
                    Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood Type
                    Dubuque, Iowa http://www.fraterdeus.com
                    Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
                    http://flickr.com/photos/pfraterdeus
                    http://youtube.com/user/pfraterdeus
                  • Peter Fraterdeus
                    Following up here. It finally occurred to me to check some of the negatives I received before all the problems started. Of course, the recent ones are half the
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 8, 2008
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                      Following up here.
                      It finally occurred to me to check some of the negatives I received before all the problems started.
                      Of course, the recent ones are half the density.
                      I'm going to have a little chat with my local film bureau.
                      Thanks to all for the tips all around.
                      Cheers
                      Peter


                      At 9:10 AM -0500 8 02 08, Harold Kyle wrote:
                      >Your exposure is probably too short. What happens when you try a 5
                      >minute exposure? As others have said a Stouffer gauge would help.
                      >
                      >Harold
                      --
                      AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
                      {ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!}

                      ExquisiteLetterpress http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com

                      -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*
                      Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
                      Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood Type
                      Dubuque, Iowa http://www.fraterdeus.com
                      Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
                      http://flickr.com/photos/pfraterdeus
                      http://youtube.com/user/pfraterdeus
                    • Lisa Davidson
                      Still, why do you get the grid pattern? I don t understand that part. Lisa ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 9, 2008
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                        Still, why do you get the grid pattern? I don't understand that part.
                        Lisa


                        On Feb 8, 2008, at 4:52 PM, Peter Fraterdeus wrote:

                        > Following up here.
                        > It finally occurred to me to check some of the negatives I received
                        > before all the problems started.
                        > Of course, the recent ones are half the density.
                        > I'm going to have a little chat with my local film bureau.
                        > Thanks to all for the tips all around.
                        > Cheers
                        > Peter
                        >
                        > At 9:10 AM -0500 8 02 08, Harold Kyle wrote:
                        > >Your exposure is probably too short. What happens when you try a 5
                        > >minute exposure? As others have said a Stouffer gauge would help.
                        > >
                        > >Harold
                        > --
                        > AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
                        > {ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!}
                        >
                        > ExquisiteLetterpresshttp://www.exquisiteletterpress.com
                        >
                        > -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-
                        > *-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*
                        > Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
                        > Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood
                        > Type
                        > Dubuque, Iowa http://www.fraterdeus.com
                        > Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
                        > http://flickr.com/photos/pfraterdeus
                        > http://youtube.com/user/pfraterdeus
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Peter Fraterdeus
                        ... Hi Lisa I think what s happening is that the negative is at the very very edge of blocking the UV, so, much of the floor (unexposed areas) of the plate is
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 9, 2008
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                          On 9 Feb 2008, at 4:10 PM, Lisa Davidson wrote:

                          > Still, why do you get the grid pattern? I don't understand that part.
                          > Lisa



                          Hi Lisa

                          I think what's happening is that the negative is at the very very edge
                          of blocking the UV, so, much of the floor (unexposed areas) of the
                          plate is in fact removed in the washout. However, there's some
                          interaction between the film and the 'creases' in the kreene (I don't
                          know what it could be, but it's gotta be there) which correspond to
                          where the grid is below. This interaction -- perhaps the kreene is
                          slightly thinner there, or slightly stretched or the creases act as a
                          UV lens and focus it just enough(???) -- creates an optical path which
                          is enough less opaque to the UV that the polymer reaches the exposure
                          threshold.

                          Other than that thought experiment, ya got me.

                          It's a head scratcher. I ordered some negs from Boxcar, which should
                          put at least that part of the question to rest ;-)
                          I also ordered some fresh kreene (straight from the Kow, I expect).
                          We shall see... I'll be back from the Chicago area toward the end of
                          the week, and will post results then.

                          Peter Fraterdeus
                          http://ExquisiteLetterpress.com
                          http://dubuquebookarts.com
                          >
                        • Lisa Davidson
                          Peter -- Wow. I guess you could use glass instead of kreene. It would lengthen your exposure times but not crease anyway. Lisa ... [Non-text portions of this
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 9, 2008
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                            Peter -- Wow. I guess you could use glass instead of kreene. It
                            would lengthen your exposure times but not crease anyway.

                            Lisa


                            On Feb 9, 2008, at 3:46 PM, Peter Fraterdeus wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > On 9 Feb 2008, at 4:10 PM, Lisa Davidson wrote:
                            >
                            > > Still, why do you get the grid pattern? I don't understand that
                            > part.
                            > > Lisa
                            >
                            > Hi Lisa
                            >
                            > I think what's happening is that the negative is at the very very edge
                            > of blocking the UV, so, much of the floor (unexposed areas) of the
                            > plate is in fact removed in the washout. However, there's some
                            > interaction between the film and the 'creases' in the kreene (I don't
                            > know what it could be, but it's gotta be there) which correspond to
                            > where the grid is below. This interaction -- perhaps the kreene is
                            > slightly thinner there, or slightly stretched or the creases act as a
                            > UV lens and focus it just enough(???) -- creates an optical path which
                            > is enough less opaque to the UV that the polymer reaches the exposure
                            > threshold.
                            >
                            > Other than that thought experiment, ya got me.
                            >
                            > It's a head scratcher. I ordered some negs from Boxcar, which should
                            > put at least that part of the question to rest ;-)
                            > I also ordered some fresh kreene (straight from the Kow, I expect).
                            > We shall see... I'll be back from the Chicago area toward the end of
                            > the week, and will post results then.
                            >
                            > Peter Fraterdeus
                            > http://ExquisiteLetterpress.com
                            > http://dubuquebookarts.com
                            > >
                            >
                            >



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