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Varnish problem

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  • Katie Harper
    I m printing a plate using only clear overprint varnish on a dark, brick red cover stock, and am finding that the usual deep impression that the clients so
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 24, 2002
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      I'm printing a plate using only clear overprint varnish on a dark, brick red
      cover stock, and am finding that the usual deep impression that the clients
      so love is causing the varnish to apparently bleed through to the back of
      the paper. This is on my C&P Craftsman, by the way I have not had this
      happen before with varnish, but have not used this paper before, either. I
      tried letting the paper dry, and this seems to help, but the ghost never
      quite goes away.

      Has anyone ever had this happen and do you know if it can be remedied?


      Katie Harper
      Ars Brevis Press
      Cincinnati, OH
      513-233-9588
      http://www.arsbrevispress.com
    • typetom@aol.com
      HI Katie, You don t say what kind of paper it is, so it s hard to evaluate what s happening. Seems to me it would have to be a very porous paper for the
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 24, 2002
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        HI Katie,
        You don't say what kind of paper it is, so it's hard to evaluate what's
        happening. Seems to me it would have to be a very porous paper for the
        varnish to go through the sheet. (Or way too much pressure and maybe too much
        varnish). Are you sure you are not just getting an off-print from the sheet
        below it in the pile?

        Only other solution that comes to mind would be to use less varnish. Probably
        less would be just about as effective for coating the image area since you
        are not trying to cover the paper color like ink, only putting a sheen on it.

        Tom Parson
        Now It's Up To You Publications
        157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
        (303) 777-8951
        http://members.aol.com/typetom
      • Katie Harper
        Well, I have discovered that it was not the varnish after all, but rather it was coming from the tympan paper, which is rather old, I suspect (it came with my
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 24, 2002
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          Well, I have discovered that it was not the varnish after all, but rather it
          was coming from the tympan paper, which is rather old, I suspect (it came
          with my equipment so is of unknown age and quality). I was able to fix the
          problem by a draw sheet from under the tympan and putting it on top to
          absorb any leaking oil. I would have to change that after about 40
          impressions or so, however. I have not had this particular problem before,
          but it doesn't surprise me. If the tympan paper is old, perhaps the oil or
          wax in it starts to leech out or something. I should probably use mylar or
          acetate, but this is so much more economical...


          Katie Harper
          Ars Brevis Press
          Cincinnati, OH
          513-233-9588
          http://www.arsbrevispress.com





          > From: typetom@...
          > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:34:54 EDT
          > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Varnish problem
          >
          > HI Katie,
          > You don't say what kind of paper it is, so it's hard to evaluate what's
          > happening. Seems to me it would have to be a very porous paper for the
          > varnish to go through the sheet. (Or way too much pressure and maybe too much
          > varnish). Are you sure you are not just getting an off-print from the sheet
          > below it in the pile?
          >
          > Only other solution that comes to mind would be to use less varnish. Probably
          > less would be just about as effective for coating the image area since you
          > are not trying to cover the paper color like ink, only putting a sheen on it.
          >
          > Tom Parson
          > Now It's Up To You Publications
          > 157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
          > (303) 777-8951
          > http://members.aol.com/typetom
          >
          >
          > ? To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
          > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > ? Encountering problems? contact:
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          > ? To unsubscribe:
          > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • Gerald Lange
          ... new version was announced at the ATypI typography conference just concluded i= n ... Brian Thanks for letting us know about this. The new Sabon looks
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 14, 2002
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            > You can see photos of a specimen of a new version of Sabon being printed
            > from photopolymer plates at this site:
            > http://www.porcheztypo.com/atypi/cpbook.html
            > The type design work has been done by Jean-François Porchez, a well known=

            > French designer, for Linotype. (The site's text is also in French). This =
            new
            > version was announced at the ATypI typography conference just concluded i=
            n
            > Rome.
            > Brian Allen
            > Mountain View, California

            Brian

            Thanks for letting us know about this. The new Sabon looks great.

            What do you know about the new Optima? Do you have any information as
            to when will that be issued? Will this be a Linotype Library release
            or through another foundry?

            I've a project using the old Optima which I had to rework the hell
            out of to make it work well letterpress. And then. afterward, I saw a
            notice somewhere on the new issue!

            Gerald
          • Gerald Lange
            Brian Another quick question somewhat related to my very recent post. I received the Indie Fonts specimen catalog from P22 and in reading the info in the back
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 14, 2002
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              Brian

              Another quick question somewhat related to my very recent post. I
              received the Indie Fonts specimen catalog from P22 and in reading the
              info in the back about Use of Fonts I was surprised to see a note
              that reworking (altering) a font is illegal. I wasn't aware of this
              previously and have never seen it stated before.

              So, if, for letterpress printing, I rework a font like the Optima in
              FOG and redo sizing and scaling weights etc am I actually in violation
              of the law?

              Gerald
            • Fontdr@aol.com
              You are not in violation of any law if you don t sell your modifications under the original name. Bob Trogman Facsimile Fonts
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 14, 2002
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                You are not in violation of any law if you don't sell your modifications
                under the original name.

                Bob Trogman
                Facsimile Fonts
              • Brian Allen
                Gerald - Yes, there is a reworked version of Optima in the works from Linotype. It has been shown at 2 type conferences now, and I thought I d see it at their
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 15, 2002
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                  Gerald -
                  Yes, there is a reworked version of Optima in the works from Linotype. It
                  has been shown at 2 type conferences now, and I thought I'd see it at their
                  web site: www.fontexplorer.com now, but don't. I don't know when it will be
                  available for sale. There are new weights and styles, including a true
                  italic (not obliqued roman) and a titling font. Type people have mixed
                  reactions to it, but Hermann Zapf was sitting next to Akira Kobayashi at the
                  computer terminal directing the changes, so it is blessed by HZ. It is a
                  Linotype exclusive, highly unlikely to be offered through any other
                  distributor.

                  While at the Linotype site, check out the newly released fonts of Adrian
                  Frutiger - Icone, Iridium, and Breughal, only now converted to Type One
                  format, 20+ years since they were available in phototype/CRT forms. They are
                  part of the "Frutiger's Life" sets. These 3 were written about by Chuck
                  Bigelow in "Fine Print on Type".

                  Re: altering fonts. Not only can you not resell the font under its own name,
                  you may not resell it at all. Modifying the data is called a "derivative
                  work", which I'm sure is covered by the license agreement. The fine points
                  of copyright/trademark issues are complicated and I am loathe to make
                  blanket statements about things I don't fully understand. To strictly follow
                  the rules, I believe you need permission to alter a font. In practical
                  terms, I think you are OK if it's for personal use only; do not under any
                  circumstance give away or sell the altered data. But I know you wouldn't do
                  that anyway.
                  The AIGA has a pamphlet on font usage and copyright, and while it is still
                  too legalistic in tone for me, may help clarify matters. It was sent to
                  members last year, but maybe it's available at their web site - aiga.org.

                  Regards,
                  Brian Allen
                  Mountain View, CA
                  Agfa Monotype employee


                  on 10/14/02 1:49 PM, Gerald Lange at bieler@... wrote:

                  >
                  >> You can see photos of a specimen of a new version of Sabon being printed
                  >> from photopolymer plates at this site:
                  >> http://www.porcheztypo.com/atypi/cpbook.html
                  >> The type design work has been done by Jean-François Porchez, a well known=
                  >
                  >
                  >> French designer, for Linotype. (The site's text is also in French). This =
                  >
                  > new
                  >> version was announced at the ATypI typography conference just concluded i=
                  >
                  > n
                  >> Rome.
                  >> Brian Allen
                  >> Mountain View, California
                  >
                  > Brian
                  >
                  > Thanks for letting us know about this. The new Sabon looks great.
                  >
                  > What do you know about the new Optima? Do you have any information as
                  > to when will that be issued? Will this be a Linotype Library release
                  > or through another foundry?
                  >
                  > I've a project using the old Optima which I had to rework the hell
                  > out of to make it work well letterpress. And then. afterward, I saw a
                  > notice somewhere on the new issue!
                  >
                  > Gerald
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > • To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                  > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  > • Encountering problems? contact:
                  > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                  > • To unsubscribe:
                  > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                • Fontdr@aol.com
                  Question: Is the use of Fontographer illegal? Many modifications are possible and are they illegal? The laws of governing modifying fonts are different in the
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 16, 2002
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                    Question: Is the use of Fontographer illegal? Many modifications are possible
                    and are they illegal? The laws of governing modifying fonts are different in
                    the US than in Europe.
                    Congress a one time considered the alphabet in the public domain and only
                    the name could be protected. When it comes to software, then the legal
                    battles will never cease. Incidentially, Compugraphic at one time was one of
                    the biggest offenders of type theft by altering the name.
                    Bob Trogman
                    Facsimile Fonts
                  • Gerald Lange
                    ... I m not sure how much Congress was involved with the alphabet and copyright issues. But type design has been long considered an industrial practice rather
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 16, 2002
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                      > Question: Is the use of Fontographer illegal? Many modifications are possible
                      > and are they illegal? The laws of governing modifying fonts are different in
                      > the US than in Europe.
                      > Congress a one time considered the alphabet in the public domain and only
                      > the name could be protected. When it comes to software, then the legal
                      > battles will never cease. Incidentially, Compugraphic at one time was one of
                      > the biggest offenders of type theft by altering the name.
                      > Bob Trogman
                      > Facsimile Fonts


                      I'm not sure how much Congress was involved with the alphabet and
                      copyright issues. But type design has been long considered an
                      industrial practice rather than a product and I believe not
                      copyrightable under US law because of this consideration and maybe as
                      well by the possible restrictions that might impinge upon the user in
                      consideration with the idea of freedom of speech. Well, it sounds
                      reasonable! Afterall, in the US, metal type is duty free as a result.

                      I think the issue is less one of copyright than breach of contract.
                      When you buy the software you are entering into a contract with the
                      manufacturer. I assume the wording regarding modification was
                      initially intended to prevent unlawful copying or distribution: a
                      slight altering of points and a change of name and off the thief
                      goes. Standing alone it seems a bit odd since typeface designs are
                      themselves derivative by nature.

                      The long history of type foundry theft, e.g. your mention of
                      Compugraphic, and there many other notorious incidents, ATF,
                      Hamilton, etc, does put a shadow on all of this. I've always gotten
                      the silent treatment from digital type designers when I mention that
                      when Adobe unlicensed its PS font format it gave birth to the growth
                      of the indy foundries, none of whom have ever paid a cent to Adobe
                      for the privilege of using the formatting. So, theoretically, I guess
                      I am amazed at the clamor over copying issues given the
                      uncontrollable nature of digital intercourse and, especially, since
                      the unlicensing of format encouraged this is the first place. The
                      gift horse is a gread ride but the flies are so annoying!!!

                      Never mentioned is the fact that user copying can easily be
                      preventable by doing exactly what they did in the pre-digital analog
                      days. Sell proprietary software and proprietary typefaces. That won't
                      stop the other foundries (those that can afford to operate in such an
                      environment) from stealing your stuff though...

                      Gerald
                    • Katie Harper
                      All this talk about copyright of fonts and how broad or narrow the protections, brings up another aspect. What about type designers and what happens to their
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 17, 2002
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                        All this talk about copyright of fonts and how broad or narrow the
                        protections, brings up another aspect. What about type designers and what
                        happens to their copyrighted artwork?

                        A serious problem that also was not a factor in the analog days is the
                        ability of the digital font user to actually change the way the type looks.
                        I'm not talking here about the incremental changes to a font that make it
                        print better on letterpress, but what is far more common: the great unwashed
                        out there taking a well designed letterform and squeezing it, squashing it,
                        smashing it, stretching it, pulling its legs and arms off without mercy...
                        etc., all because the computer lets them do it and no one is telling them
                        that maybe it's not okay... As a teacher, I spend a lot of time trying to
                        instill in my students a respect for the type designer's product, but most
                        people are using computers without any such guidance.

                        This to me is a far greater crime. I think back to the days when Fred Goudy
                        would design a font that was distributed to printers around the land,
                        sleeping well at night because he could know with a reasonable certainty
                        that anyone who used his fonts would produce the letterforms that he
                        designed. A digital type designer sends his or her children off to a very
                        cruel world. Do they just grit their teeth and wave good-by to the kids? It
                        would be interesting to know if there is any legal protection for the
                        designs and their integrity.


                        Katie Harper
                        Ars Brevis Press
                        Cincinnati, OH
                        513-233-9588
                        http://www.arsbrevispress.com
                      • Peter Fraterdeus
                        Katie Good questions all! I ve been in the digital type biz since 1987, when I released Prospera and started my Alphabets, Inc. (www.alphabets.com) Prospera
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 17, 2002
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                          Katie

                          Good questions all!
                          I've been in the digital type biz since 1987, when I released Prospera and started my "Alphabets, Inc." (www.alphabets.com)

                          Prospera was the result (partially) of work I'd done under a NEA Design Project Grant, which included some study with Hermann Zapf at RIT, and research in Europe, as well as plenty of toner run through the LaserWriter ;-)

                          In a word : yes.
                          We must 'grit [our] teeth and wave good-by to the kids' as you put it.

                          There is simply no way to sell a digital type product that can't be treated like a Doberman's favorite sock toy. Moreover, it's not only the unwashed that partake in this ;-)

                          Nonetheless, I personally believe that the fine people who actually PURCHASE fonts (as opposed to the art and design students who generally "inherit" huge libraries from their educational institutions) DO respect the designers.

                          Also, modern type design should, clearly, take into account the, 'plastic' nature of the instant repro technology, and be, at minimum, forgiving, or better, designed for adaptation of this nature... Of course, such efforts are easily defeated, in any case...

                          At 9:02 AM -0400 2002-10-17, Katie Harper wrote:
                          >All this talk about copyright of fonts and how broad or narrow the
                          >protections, brings up another aspect. What about type designers and what
                          >happens to their copyrighted artwork?
                          >
                          >A serious problem that also was not a factor in the analog days is the
                          >ability of the digital font user to actually change the way the type looks.
                          >I'm not talking here about the incremental changes to a font that make it
                          >print better on letterpress, but what is far more common: the great unwashed
                          >out there taking a well designed letterform and squeezing it, squashing it,
                          >smashing it, stretching it, pulling its legs and arms off without mercy...
                          >etc., all because the computer lets them do it and no one is telling them
                          >that maybe it's not okay... As a teacher, I spend a lot of time trying to
                          >instill in my students a respect for the type designer's product, but most
                          >people are using computers without any such guidance.

                          A crime, indeed, yet, in the overall perspective of real life, a petty misdemeanor.
                          Would we rather have graphical computers only available to the professional, registered typographic communicator???

                          No. The display of bad typography is a great boon to the exchange of ideas.
                          Also, it makes our meticulous work look even better than it deserves l;-)

                          While the majority will continue to use dtp software with results that make us queasy, there are those that have begun on the path to enlightenment, sometimes through the gentle prodding of teachers like yourself, other times, simply by coming to the realization that there's something that designers do that seems to make a positive difference in how well that message is received.

                          >
                          >This to me is a far greater crime. I think back to the days when Fred Goudy
                          >would design a font that was distributed to printers around the land,
                          >sleeping well at night because he could know with a reasonable certainty
                          >that anyone who used his fonts would produce the letterforms that he

                          Fred Goudy lost plenty of sleep, precisely because many of those printers were using his letterforms from foundries that blatantly stole and reproduced them!

                          >designed. A digital type designer sends his or her children off to a very
                          >cruel world. Do they just grit their teeth and wave good-by to the kids? It
                          >would be interesting to know if there is any legal protection for the
                          >designs and their integrity.

                          Not in the US, other than design patents, which are harder to enforce, due to need to prove 'uniqueness'. Design patents are given for furniture lines, table ware, etc...

                          In Europe there are far stronger protections on the actual shapes of the letters. Here, the only thing that CAN be copyrighted is the SOFTWARE that produces the outlines! (and thus the data points and any derivatives thereof.)

                          >Katie Harper
                          >Ars Brevis Press
                          >Cincinnati, OH
                          >513-233-9588
                          http://www.arsbrevispress.com

                          Nonetheless, as I mentioned, those that BUY fonts are not usually the ones that worry them.
                          Also, some of the high end boutique 'foundries' charge enormous prices and include extra goodies (letterpress booklets among them if I recall) to provide their users with an 'incentive', if you will, to, first, not give the font away to all their friends, and second, to use it with knowledge and respect...

                          In any case, I've come a long way from my early typographic conservatism (I'm still a social liberal ;-) and I now feel that freedom to communicate is far more important than fussy, possibly elitist notions about OTHER people's use of type. This (I hope) clearly doesn't mean that >>I<< would abuse a beautiful design for shock value ;-)

                          Cheers!

                          Peter

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                          www.semiotx.com Magical Images from the Moon's Garden!

                          Save Our Congress from Moralistic Right-Wing Rubberstamp-ism.
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                        • caldrich45
                          As long as the font is for your own use and you don t sell or give the altered font away, you can do what you want with it. I believe that is fair use. You
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 31, 2002
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                            As long as the font is for your own use and you don't sell or give the altered
                            font away, you can do what you want with it. I believe that is "fair use." You
                            can tear pages out of a book and highlight and cross out passages if you so
                            desire. you can paint over someone else's canvas if you have purchased a
                            painting. To me, this is no different. I belieive that legally, fonts are not
                            copyrighted, only the name. Once you alter it, you should rename it, it then
                            becomes a different font.
                          • Gerald Lange
                            Hi Yes, I think there is a legal simularity between the physical object that one is in possession of versus the intellectual effort of the creator... But when
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 31, 2002
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                              Hi

                              Yes, I think there is a legal simularity between the physical object
                              that one is in possession of versus the intellectual effort of the
                              creator...

                              But when you rename a font as far as I know the code name, the FOND
                              identification, is not altered. Could be wrong about that but I thought
                              both FOG and FL don't alter this. Maybe I'm confused about this?

                              Gerald

                              caldrich45 wrote:

                              >As long as the font is for your own use and you don't sell or give the altered
                              >font away, you can do what you want with it. I believe that is "fair use." You
                              >can tear pages out of a book and highlight and cross out passages if you so
                              >desire. you can paint over someone else's canvas if you have purchased a
                              >painting. To me, this is no different. I belieive that legally, fonts are not
                              >copyrighted, only the name. Once you alter it, you should rename it, it then
                              >becomes a different font.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Brian Allen
                              RE: regenerating font files in Fontographer (version 4+ for the Mac) - one can change the FOND ID number when making Macintosh PostScript fonts. When you get
                              Message 14 of 18 , Nov 3, 2002
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                                RE: regenerating font files in Fontographer (version 4+ for the Mac) - one
                                can change the FOND ID number when making Macintosh PostScript fonts.
                                When you get to the "Generate Font Files" dialog and ask for a Macintosh
                                font, you'll see on the right side of the dialog: "Bitmap font to output"
                                "Format: NFNT, ID:xxxxx" (some number will be here)
                                This is the FOND ID number to change (use one less than 15,000)
                                When altering a font for personal use, one should both alter the name AND
                                the FOND ID number, to be sure ATM, application, and printer driver aren't
                                confused. And further, it's best to reboot your machine and printer to clear
                                cached memory of font ID numbers before installing the new font.
                                Brian Allen
                                who works in font production for Agfa Monotype
                                Mountain View, California
                                -----------
                                on 10/31/02 8:43 AM, Gerald Lange at bieler@... wrote:

                                > Hi
                                >
                                > Yes, I think there is a legal simularity between the physical object
                                > that one is in possession of versus the intellectual effort of the
                                > creator...
                                >
                                > But when you rename a font as far as I know the code name, the FOND
                                > identification, is not altered. Could be wrong about that but I thought
                                > both FOG and FL don't alter this. Maybe I'm confused about this?
                                >
                                > Gerald
                                >
                                > caldrich45 wrote:
                                >
                                >> As long as the font is for your own use and you don't sell or give the
                                >> altered
                                >> font away, you can do what you want with it. I believe that is "fair use."
                                >> You
                                >> can tear pages out of a book and highlight and cross out passages if you so
                                >> desire. you can paint over someone else's canvas if you have purchased a
                                >> painting. To me, this is no different. I belieive that legally, fonts are not
                                >> copyrighted, only the name. Once you alter it, you should rename it, it then
                                >> becomes a different font.
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ? To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                                > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                > ? Encountering problems? contact:
                                > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                > ? To unsubscribe:
                                > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                              • Gerald Lange
                                ... Brian Thanks. I ve never done this and thus far neither my laser printer or any imagesetter that has been used has been confused. (?) Am I just lucky? I ve
                                Message 15 of 18 , Nov 3, 2002
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                                  Brian Allen wrote:

                                  >RE: regenerating font files in Fontographer (version 4+ for the Mac) - one
                                  >can change the FOND ID number when making Macintosh PostScript fonts.
                                  >When you get to the "Generate Font Files" dialog and ask for a Macintosh
                                  >font, you'll see on the right side of the dialog: "Bitmap font to output"
                                  >"Format: NFNT, ID:xxxxx" (some number will be here)
                                  >This is the FOND ID number to change (use one less than 15,000)
                                  >When altering a font for personal use, one should both alter the name AND
                                  >the FOND ID number, to be sure ATM, application, and printer driver aren't
                                  >confused. And further, it's best to reboot your machine and printer to clear
                                  >cached memory of font ID numbers before installing the new font.
                                  >Brian Allen
                                  >who works in font production for Agfa Monotype
                                  >Mountain View, California
                                  >
                                  >

                                  Brian

                                  Thanks. I've never done this and thus far neither my laser printer or
                                  any imagesetter that has been used has been confused. (?) Am I just lucky?

                                  I've been trying to put together a cheat sheet on FL like I did for FOG.
                                  I see no real controls to recalc bitmaps or import metric info from the
                                  original font like one would do in FOG. I've talked to an FL tech and he
                                  says you don't have to, FL does it automatically. Well not from the
                                  looks of the fonts I've generated. Spacing attributes are not correct at
                                  all. Any tips and tricks? The manual is a complete nightmare, though I
                                  must say I do like the Transformation Range capabilities.

                                  Gerald

                                  >
                                  >
                                • Brian Allen
                                  Gerald - I expect you ve been a little lucky. When you open the printer font file in Fontographer the first time and then generate a new Mac font + bitmap
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Nov 3, 2002
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                                    Gerald -
                                    I expect you've been a little lucky. When you open the printer font file in
                                    Fontographer the first time and then generate a new Mac font + bitmap
                                    suitcase, a new FOND number is randomly generated. If you reopen that FOG
                                    database file to make further alterations, Fontographer keeps that same FOND
                                    ID when generating the new font files. This is where you might get fooled
                                    and not see a change you thought you made.
                                    Generally speaking, when a font is downloaded to an output device, the font
                                    ID is checked. If a laser printer, say, already has something with that
                                    number, theoretically it won't download a new font with the same ID and will
                                    use the font data it had already cached. But with the level of complexity
                                    now between operating systems, ATM, printer drivers, etc., it's hard to know
                                    what goes on!
                                    At work when I'm testing changes to PostScript fonts I reboot everything
                                    between new installations, to be confident I am seeing the latest. (And I'm
                                    using a specific FOND ID throughout the production cycle, so that's a reason
                                    for continual rebooting.)
                                    Brian Allen
                                    Mountain View, CA

                                    on 11/3/02 8:24 PM, Gerald Lange at bieler@... wrote:
                                    > Brian
                                    >
                                    > Thanks. I've never done this and thus far neither my laser printer or
                                    > any imagesetter that has been used has been confused. (?) Am I just lucky?
                                    >
                                    > I've been trying to put together a cheat sheet on FL like I did for FOG.
                                    > I see no real controls to recalc bitmaps or import metric info from the
                                    > original font like one would do in FOG. I've talked to an FL tech and he
                                    > says you don't have to, FL does it automatically. Well not from the
                                    > looks of the fonts I've generated. Spacing attributes are not correct at
                                    > all. Any tips and tricks? The manual is a complete nightmare, though I
                                    > must say I do like the Transformation Range capabilities.
                                    >
                                    > Gerald

                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Brian Allen wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> RE: regenerating font files in Fontographer (version 4+ for the Mac) - one
                                    >> can change the FOND ID number when making Macintosh PostScript fonts.
                                    >> When you get to the "Generate Font Files" dialog and ask for a Macintosh
                                    >> font, you'll see on the right side of the dialog: "Bitmap font to output"
                                    >> "Format: NFNT, ID:xxxxx" (some number will be here)
                                    >> This is the FOND ID number to change (use one less than 15,000)
                                    >> When altering a font for personal use, one should both alter the name AND
                                    >> the FOND ID number, to be sure ATM, application, and printer driver aren't
                                    >> confused. And further, it's best to reboot your machine and printer to clear
                                    >> cached memory of font ID numbers before installing the new font.
                                    >> Brian Allen
                                    >> who works in font production for Agfa Monotype
                                    >> Mountain View, California
                                    >>
                                    >
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                                  • Gerald Lange
                                    ... file in ... that FOG ... same FOND ... fooled ... the font ... and will ... complexity ... to know ... (And I m ... a reason ... A long, long time ago a
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Nov 3, 2002
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      --- In PPLetterpress@y..., Brian Allen <allenprinter@y...> wrote:
                                      > Gerald -
                                      > I expect you've been a little lucky. When you open the printer font
                                      file in
                                      > Fontographer the first time and then generate a new Mac font + bitmap
                                      > suitcase, a new FOND number is randomly generated. If you reopen
                                      that FOG
                                      > database file to make further alterations, Fontographer keeps that
                                      same FOND
                                      > ID when generating the new font files. This is where you might get
                                      fooled
                                      > and not see a change you thought you made.
                                      > Generally speaking, when a font is downloaded to an output device,
                                      the font
                                      > ID is checked. If a laser printer, say, already has something with that
                                      > number, theoretically it won't download a new font with the same ID
                                      and will
                                      > use the font data it had already cached. But with the level of
                                      complexity
                                      > now between operating systems, ATM, printer drivers, etc., it's hard
                                      to know
                                      > what goes on!
                                      > At work when I'm testing changes to PostScript fonts I reboot everything
                                      > between new installations, to be confident I am seeing the latest.
                                      (And I'm
                                      > using a specific FOND ID throughout the production cycle, so that's
                                      a reason
                                      > for continual rebooting.)
                                      > Brian Allen


                                      A long, long time ago a tech at Altsys told me never to regenerate
                                      from one of their database files so I've always just tossed them.
                                      Guess that was good advice.

                                      I note that FontLab constructs a ghost font during the entire process,
                                      somehow linking this with ATM (for the previews), and then dumps it
                                      when the font is saved.. I've been tossing their database files as
                                      well. Though I suspect one should start saving the AFM files as we
                                      move ever closer to current and forthcoming technologies. (?).

                                      Gerald

                                      Gerald
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