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Re: [PPLetterpress] PPWeirdness

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  • Peter Fraterdeus
    Harold Thanks very much for the thoughts on this. Well, the same film had been used for plates which were aok earlier. However they do seem a bit light to me,
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 2, 2008
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      Harold
      Thanks very much for the thoughts on this.
      Well, the same film had been used for plates which were aok earlier.
      However they do seem a bit light to me, but then I'm in a very bright room, which leads to...

      How much ambient light is too much?
      I'm in a shop which is "well" lit (if any such adjective can be applied to 16 banks of 4 florescent bulbs)

      I suppose it's very possible that the small pieces I've been using are the ends of larger pieces which have been pulled out of the bag a number of times. I will review my handling procedures!

      However, I still don't understand the grid marks from the vacuum frame!

      Thanks very much for your thoughts!

      peter


      At 10:58 AM -0500 2 02 08, Harold Kyle wrote:
      >Peter:
      >
      >This happens when either the film you're using doesn't have enough
      >density or else the plate was exposed to too much ambient light prior to
      >exposure.
      >
      >I don't think it's the film because the unwashed areas are different on
      >each plate. To test the film, hold the black part of the film over your
      >eyes and look toward a light bulb. If the film has enough density,
      >chances are you won't be able to see the light bulb through the film.
      >
      >Could you have left your black bag unsealed, or left the plate on a
      >light table or in ambient light for fifteen minutes or more? This would
      >result. If you feel the plates arrived in this condition, and we
      >supplied these to you, you should speak with Cathy on Monday to discuss
      >replacement plates. All our stock is arrives fresh every quarter and is
      >a newer formulation of KF95 material. Although unusual, if there was any
      >mis-handling on our end, we will certainly replace your plates.
      >
      >Thanks,
      >Harold
      >
      >
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >


      --
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      ExquisiteLetterpress http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com

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      Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
      Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood Type
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    • Peter Fraterdeus
      ... Eric Thanks for the observations. I will talk to my film processor, although, as noted, previous plates from the same film were ok Fogging makes sense,
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 2, 2008
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        >...
        > But it still depends on stray light getting into the non-image area,
        >and the other problems do look a bit like either fogging or thin
        >negatives. Either condition causes overexposure of non-image area.
        > --Eric Holub, SF


        Eric

        Thanks for the observations.
        I will talk to my film processor, although, as noted, previous plates from the same film were ok

        Fogging makes sense, although I was (incorrectly, I see) under the impression that since the polymer requires high intensity short UV (the dangerous kind, no?) that typical ambient light during handling, ie, removal from the bag to cut to size, wouldn't be a problem.
        Hmm.

        Just a lazy question: where can one find data sheets on the photopolymers, ie handling policies, exposure, etc?

        p


        --
        AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
        {ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!}

        ExquisiteLetterpress http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com

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        Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
        Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood Type
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        Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
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        http://youtube.com/user/pfraterdeus
      • Lisa Davidson
        Peter, As you probably know, fluorescent light bulbs put out a lot of UV, so much that you can make a perfectly good contact print onto a platinum emulsion
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 2, 2008
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          Peter,

          As you probably know, fluorescent light bulbs put out a lot of UV,
          so much that you can make a perfectly good contact print onto a
          platinum emulsion from a close-up bank of fluorescent bulbs in 24
          hours. If you change them all to tungsten, it will cost more in
          electricity, but the light will be safer.

          Lisa


          On Feb 2, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Peter Fraterdeus wrote:

          > >...
          > > But it still depends on stray light getting into the non-image area,
          > >and the other problems do look a bit like either fogging or thin
          > >negatives. Either condition causes overexposure of non-image area.
          > > --Eric Holub, SF
          >
          > Eric
          >
          > Thanks for the observations.
          > I will talk to my film processor, although, as noted, previous
          > plates from the same film were ok
          >
          > Fogging makes sense, although I was (incorrectly, I see) under the
          > impression that since the polymer requires high intensity short UV
          > (the dangerous kind, no?) that typical ambient light during
          > handling, ie, removal from the bag to cut to size, wouldn't be a
          > problem.
          > Hmm.
          >
          > Just a lazy question: where can one find data sheets on the
          > photopolymers, ie handling policies, exposure, etc?
          >
          > p
          >
          > --
          > AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
          > {ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!}
          >
          > ExquisiteLetterpresshttp://www.exquisiteletterpress.com
          >
          > -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-
          > *-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*
          > Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
          > Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood
          > Type
          > Dubuque, Iowa http://www.fraterdeus.com
          > Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
          > http://flickr.com/photos/pfraterdeus
          > http://youtube.com/user/pfraterdeus
          >
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Peter Fraterdeus
          ... Hi Lisa Yes, safer... Sadly, it s not really an option as these are in drop ceiling installed fixtures. I m trying to come up with some kind of options,
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 2, 2008
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            On 2 Feb 2008, at 2:36 PM, Lisa Davidson wrote:
            > Peter,
            >
            > As you probably know, fluorescent light bulbs put out a lot of UV,
            > so much that you can make a perfectly good contact print onto a
            > platinum emulsion from a close-up bank of fluorescent bulbs in 24
            > hours. If you change them all to tungsten, it will cost more in
            > electricity, but the light will be safer.
            >
            > Lisa


            Hi Lisa

            Yes, safer... Sadly, it's not really an option as these are in 'drop
            ceiling' installed fixtures. I'm trying to come up with some kind of
            options, but not much comes to mind...

            Wish I could just jump all the way to LEDs ;-)

            Ciao
            p


            Peter Fraterdeus
            http://ExquisiteLetterpress.com
            http://dubuquebookarts.com
          • lokkenprint
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 3, 2008
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              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote: > > On 2 Feb 2008, at 2:36 PM, Lisa Davidson wrote: > > Peter, > > > > As you probably know, fluorescent light bulbs put out a lot of UV, > > so much that you can make a perfectly good contact print onto a > > platinum emulsion from a close-up bank of fluorescent bulbs in 24 > > hours. If you change them all to tungsten, it will cost more in > > electricity, but the light will be safer. > > > > Lisa > > > Hi Lisa > > Yes, safer... Sadly, it's not really an option as these are in 'drop > ceiling' installed fixtures. I'm trying to come up with some kind of > options, but not much comes to mind... > > Wish I could just jump all the way to LEDs ;-) > > Ciao > p > > > Peter Fraterdeus > http://ExquisiteLetterpress.com > http://dubuquebookarts.com > In my platemaking area, I have amber tubes that cover my flourescent bulbs. They block the UV spectrum. They should still be available through Xpedx or Valley Litho. I would not recommend these tubes in a press area as they would affect color perception. Sumner
            • Russ Wiecking - Wood and Metal Craft
              It might be useful to keep in mind that the amount of light on the plate is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source. This benefits
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 4, 2008
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                It might be useful to keep in mind that the amount of light on the
                plate is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the
                source. This benefits in that doubling the distance from plate to light
                source decreases the light to 1/4 of the original, quadrupling the
                distance decreases it to 1/16 of the original, and so on. What might
                currently be a 24 hour exposure time, would become a 96 hour exposure
                time if the distance is doubled. You may only need bulb covers in the
                immediate vicinity so that the remaining bulbs are an acceptable
                distance. Maybe there could be a horizontal shade just below a few
                lights that you could pull when you handle film. Or re-wire to switch
                them off...It would be good to know the distance and number of bulbs
                referenced in Lisa's note so you can get a feel for how likely it is
                that your lights are really an issue.

                Russ


                On Feb 3, 2008, at 9:42 AM, lokkenprint wrote:

                > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...>
                > wrote: > > On 2 Feb 2008, at 2:36 PM, Lisa Davidson
                > wrote: > > Peter, > > > > As you probably
                > know, fluorescent light bulbs put out a lot of UV, > > so
                > much that you can make a perfectly good contact print onto
                > a > > platinum emulsion from a close-up bank of fluorescent
                > bulbs in 24 > > hours. If you change them all to tungsten, it
                > will cost more in > > electricity, but the light will be
                > safer. > > > > Lisa > >
                > > Hi Lisa > > Yes, safer... Sadly, it's
                > not really an option as these are in 'drop > ceiling'
                > installed fixtures. I'm trying to come up with some kind of
                > > options, but not much comes to mind... >
                > > Wish I could just jump all the way to LEDs ;-) >
                > > Ciao > p > > > Peter
                > Fraterdeus > http://ExquisiteLetterpress.com >
                > http://dubuquebookarts.com > In my
                > platemaking area, I have amber tubes that cover my
                > flourescent bulbs. They block the UV spectrum. They should
                > still be available through Xpedx or Valley Litho. I would not
                > recommend these tubes in a press area as they would affect
                > color perception. Sumner
                >
                >
                >
              • Peter Fraterdeus
                Hi Russ The room is about 15x35 with an eight foot drop-ceiling in which are 16 four-tube fixtures, each lamp being, what, 25W so 100W in each fixture? pretty
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 4, 2008
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                  Hi Russ

                  The room is about 15x35 with an eight foot drop-ceiling in which are 16 four-tube fixtures, each lamp being, what, 25W so 100W in each fixture?
                  pretty much anywhere in the room will be within 10 feet line-of-sight from a bulb.
                  Your suggestion confirms what I was thinking which is to put the filters on the fixtures in the immediate vicinity of the platemaker, and where I'm cutting the material.

                  Regards
                  P


                  At 8:53 AM -0800 4 02 08, Russ Wiecking - Wood and Metal Craft wrote:
                  >.... You may only need bulb covers in the
                  >immediate vicinity so that the remaining bulbs are an acceptable
                  >distance. Maybe there could be a horizontal shade just below a few
                  >lights that you could pull when you handle film. Or re-wire to switch
                  >them off...It would be good to know the distance and number of bulbs
                  >referenced in Lisa's note so you can get a feel for how likely it is
                  >that your lights are really an issue.
                  >
                  >Russ

                  --
                  AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
                  {ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!}

                  ExquisiteLetterpress http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com

                  -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*
                  Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
                  Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood Type
                  Dubuque, Iowa http://www.fraterdeus.com
                  Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
                  http://flickr.com/photos/pfraterdeus
                  http://youtube.com/user/pfraterdeus
                • John G. Henry
                  I d have to think that there is not enough density in the negatives you are using. There should be no way that exposure occurs in the non- image areas of the
                  Message 8 of 23 , Feb 5, 2008
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                    I'd have to think that there is not enough density in the negatives
                    you are using. There should be no way that exposure occurs in the non-
                    image areas of the plate (evidenced by the reprodcution of the vaccum
                    channels, and long wash-out times). The image of the vacuum channels
                    is most likely produced by reflection of the channels into the plate
                    from the back. You will probably notice that the milled channels are
                    shiny metal while the bed is more matte or subdued. I have not seen
                    this happen in my own plates, but is simply conjecture on my part.

                    If you hold the negative up to a bright light source (bare bulb), and
                    pass something behind the film, can you detect the object moving and
                    see an outline of it in the dark negative areas? If so, you probably
                    do not have high enough density in the film. Check some other
                    negatives which have worked well for you and see if there appears to
                    be a difference in density.

                    Density in negatives can vary a bit, but the whole process depends on
                    the contrast between the dark and clear areas on the film. Another
                    potential problem can be that there is some denisty in the clear
                    areas which can cause your exposures to increase, which increases the
                    likelihood that variance in black density can be a problem.

                    John Henry
                    Cedar Creek Press
                  • Peter Fraterdeus
                    Hi John Thanks for the thoughts. I m investigating a number of concerns with this issue. I do think the negs are a little thin, but they are from a loca offset
                    Message 9 of 23 , Feb 5, 2008
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                      Hi John

                      Thanks for the thoughts.
                      I'm investigating a number of concerns with this issue.
                      I do think the negs are a little thin, but they are from a loca offset printer who uses the same machine for his negatives. So, not likely to change, anyway.
                      However, I've had perfect results with the same negatives, so I don't think that's the problem

                      The vacuum grid is the weirdest thing, since the "exposure" passes right through both clear and black areas on the negative. It's as if it's exposed from underneath. Yet, the channels themselves are black, not metallic...

                      Anyway, it does seem the most likely culprit is fogging, which I put down to the excessively bright florescent lighting in the shop. I'm looking into options to manage that a bit...

                      Best
                      Peter


                      >I'd have to think that there is not enough density in the negatives
                      >you are using. There should be no way that exposure occurs in the non-
                      >image areas of the plate (evidenced by the reprodcution of the vaccum
                      >channels, and long wash-out times). The image of the vacuum channels
                      >is most likely produced by reflection of the channels into the plate
                      >from the back. You will probably notice that the milled channels are
                      >shiny metal while the bed is more matte or subdued. I have not seen
                      >this happen in my own plates, but is simply conjecture on my part.
                      >
                      >If you hold the negative up to a bright light source (bare bulb), and
                      >pass something behind the film, can you detect the object moving and
                      >see an outline of it in the dark negative areas? If so, you probably
                      >do not have high enough density in the film. Check some other
                      >negatives which have worked well for you and see if there appears to
                      >be a difference in density.
                      >
                      >Density in negatives can vary a bit, but the whole process depends on
                      >the contrast between the dark and clear areas on the film. Another
                      >potential problem can be that there is some denisty in the clear
                      >areas which can cause your exposures to increase, which increases the
                      >likelihood that variance in black density can be a problem.
                      >
                      >John Henry
                      >Cedar Creek Press
                      >
                      >


                      --
                      AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
                      {ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!}

                      ExquisiteLetterpress http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com

                      -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*
                      Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
                      Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood Type
                      Dubuque, Iowa http://www.fraterdeus.com
                      Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
                      http://flickr.com/photos/pfraterdeus
                      http://youtube.com/user/pfraterdeus
                    • kringds
                      Hi Gerald, I was browsing the archives on dampening paper and came across your post below in which you seem suprised at the dampening of Lettra. Could you tell
                      Message 10 of 23 , May 8, 2008
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                        Hi Gerald,

                        I was browsing the archives on dampening paper and came across your post below in
                        which you seem suprised at the dampening of Lettra. Could you tell me why you were
                        supprised?

                        I am getting ready to print a job on 32# lettra and am debating if I should dampen the
                        paper. I will be printing on polymer plates with primarily line art with black ink.

                        I have dampened heavier weight paper before with good results but I am wondering if it
                        makes sense for a lighter weight paper. I assume it does. Could you or anyone with
                        experience let me know their opinion on this?

                        As always, thanks for the help and advice.

                        bryan kring



                        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Probably. I still have demon catchers hanging from the ceiling, though
                        > I have taken down all the tribute images of Moloch.
                        >
                        > Dampened Lettra!!! Interesting.
                        >
                        > Gerald
                        > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                        >
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Yes. As noted I've had plenty of good luck before Mercury retrograde
                        > started ;-)
                        > > These little 'antelope' greeting cards were done with the 'old'
                        > yellow pp... ( dampened Lettra on the V219)
                        > >
                        > http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com/cards/exquisitegreetingcards/archive/samples/
                        unique-invitation-designs-by-kf/P1020933.JPG
                        > >
                        > > Maybe it's the wrong Moon sign for platemaking?
                        > >
                        > > Ciao
                        > > p
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Gerald Lange
                        Hi Bryan My thinking is that commercial grade papers tend not to respond well to dampening. Primarily because of dominant grain direction and external sizing.
                        Message 11 of 23 , May 9, 2008
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                          Hi Bryan

                          My thinking is that commercial grade papers tend not to respond well to
                          dampening. Primarily because of dominant grain direction and external
                          sizing.

                          I think the only commercial grade that I dampen is Curtis Flannel but my
                          suspicion, is that it might actually have been a mouldmade, coming from
                          the Scottish mills that Curtis owned. We had it tested once and the
                          report came back that it consisted of tobacco leaves. I believe it was
                          engine sized. Great printing paper no longer with us.

                          One of my students had some double ply Lettra last semester. A very
                          thick sheet that she was attempting to print on the Vandercook. Not only
                          did the layers split apart but the entire back ply was warped throughout
                          the heap. Might have been a bad lot or badly stored. Not a big fan.

                          I don't know that you need to dampen on thinner stock. Most of the text
                          weight mouldmades print well without dampening, though they do respond
                          well when dampened. I guess I'd suggest dampening only when you really
                          need to do it.

                          An aside, but it does relate to the old thread you encountered. I
                          believe some was asking about the bulging between letters that they were
                          experiencing when printing on Cranes Lettra with the "deep relief"
                          plate. I occurred to me the other day that the problem arises from
                          relief depth. Subtract the relief thickness of a plate from the plate
                          thickness and you get its relief depth. A Toyobo 95 mm K series plate
                          has a 65 mm relief thickness. A Toyobo 1.52 mm K series plate has a 1.22
                          mm relief thickness. Thus, surprise, surprise, they both have a relief
                          depth of .30 mm. While the 152 is deeper (thicker) from surface to
                          floor, material in close proximity at the surface (small text,
                          letterform counters, etc) however, is limited to the relief depth.
                          That's just the way the formation process works. Any other ratio in
                          regard to relief depth would make the plate unstable. Thus you will get
                          the bulging effect when you over impress as you are extending beyond the
                          capability of the plate. The paper has to do something under the forced
                          pressure so it bulges out where it can or even cracks. This would also
                          account for the loss of isolated dots, fine lines, etc, on these plates
                          under severe impression as they simply have no support.

                          Gerald
                          http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                          kringds wrote:
                          > Hi Gerald,
                          >
                          > I was browsing the archives on dampening paper and came across your post below in
                          > which you seem suprised at the dampening of Lettra. Could you tell me why you were
                          > supprised?
                          >
                          > I am getting ready to print a job on 32# lettra and am debating if I should dampen the
                          > paper. I will be printing on polymer plates with primarily line art with black ink.
                          >
                          > I have dampened heavier weight paper before with good results but I am wondering if it
                          > makes sense for a lighter weight paper. I assume it does. Could you or anyone with
                          > experience let me know their opinion on this?
                          >
                          > As always, thanks for the help and advice.
                          >
                          > bryan kring
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >> Probably. I still have demon catchers hanging from the ceiling, though
                          >> I have taken down all the tribute images of Moloch.
                          >>
                          >> Dampened Lettra!!! Interesting.
                          >>
                          >> Gerald
                          >> http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>> Yes. As noted I've had plenty of good luck before Mercury retrograde
                          >>>
                          >> started ;-)
                          >>
                          >>> These little 'antelope' greeting cards were done with the 'old'
                          >>>
                          >> yellow pp... ( dampened Lettra on the V219)
                          >>
                          >> http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com/cards/exquisitegreetingcards/archive/samples/
                          >>
                          > unique-invitation-designs-by-kf/P1020933.JPG
                          >
                          >>> Maybe it's the wrong Moon sign for platemaking?
                          >>>
                          >>> Ciao
                          >>> p
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >
                        • Peter Fraterdeus
                          Bryan, Gerald, Dampening worked well on the 300gsm Lettra Assuming one is doing single color work, variation in grain doesn t really come into it. Also, even
                          Message 12 of 23 , May 9, 2008
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                            Bryan, Gerald,

                            Dampening worked well on the 300gsm Lettra
                            Assuming one is doing single color work, variation in grain doesn't
                            really come into it.
                            Also, even with multiple colors, keeping the stock lightly wrapped
                            between impressions will minimize dimensional variation.

                            Double ply, 600gsm, I can imagine may be a problem on the cylinder,
                            yes...

                            As far as the other concern that Gerald alludes to, the plate in
                            question was neither of the Toyobos, but a leftover that was acquired
                            previously. I've had none of these problems with the Toyobo 152. One
                            thing is that I've found that keeping the washout to the absolute
                            minimum is critical, and often pull the plate while there are still
                            small amounts of material adhering to the backing. (about 4.5 minutes)
                            With this, I get lovely shoulders on even isolated thin rules and
                            dots...

                            My concern had nothing to do with "bulging" between the letters, but
                            the fact that there was so little definition between the letters, so
                            that the whole line of type appeared to be surrounded by a slight
                            depression caused by very shallow shoulders. With the Toyobo (either
                            95 or 152) I've not had this problem. While the impression was not
                            wimpy, neither was it excessive. There is never embossing on the verso.

                            Cheers
                            P


                            On 8 May 2008, at 6:43 PM, kringds wrote:
                            > Hi Gerald,
                            >
                            > I was browsing the archives on dampening paper and came across your
                            > post below in
                            > which you seem suprised at the dampening of Lettra. Could you tell
                            > me why you were
                            > supprised?
                            >
                            > I am getting ready to print a job on 32# lettra and am debating if I
                            > should dampen the
                            > paper. I will be printing on polymer plates with primarily line art
                            > with black ink.
                            >
                            > I have dampened heavier weight paper before with good results but I
                            > am wondering if it
                            > makes sense for a lighter weight paper. I assume it does. Could you
                            > or anyone with
                            > experience let me know their opinion on this?
                            >
                            > As always, thanks for the help and advice.
                            >
                            > bryan kring

                            Peter Fraterdeus
                            Exquisite Letterpress
                            http://slowprint.com
                          • Gerald Lange
                            Peter Don t know that the other concern was in reference to you, but you might even want to back down to 4 minutes on washout for the Toyobo 152s. It ll leave
                            Message 13 of 23 , May 9, 2008
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                              Peter

                              Don't know that the other concern was in reference to you, but you
                              might even want to back down to 4 minutes on washout for the Toyobo
                              152s. It 'll leave a bit of residue and not look as nice as one might
                              hope, but it will definitely prevent undercutting and ensure support.
                              These are steel-backs. Don't know about the polyester-backed 152s.

                              The Toybobo 95s are a dream plate. Perfectly clean at 3.5 minute
                              washout, no residue, no undercutting, steel- or polyester-backed.

                              Gerald
                              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Bryan, Gerald,
                              >
                              > Dampening worked well on the 300gsm Lettra
                              > Assuming one is doing single color work, variation in grain doesn't
                              > really come into it.
                              > Also, even with multiple colors, keeping the stock lightly wrapped
                              > between impressions will minimize dimensional variation.
                              >
                              > Double ply, 600gsm, I can imagine may be a problem on the cylinder,
                              > yes...
                              >
                              > As far as the other concern that Gerald alludes to, the plate in
                              > question was neither of the Toyobos, but a leftover that was acquired
                              > previously. I've had none of these problems with the Toyobo 152. One
                              > thing is that I've found that keeping the washout to the absolute
                              > minimum is critical, and often pull the plate while there are still
                              > small amounts of material adhering to the backing. (about 4.5 minutes)
                              > With this, I get lovely shoulders on even isolated thin rules and
                              > dots...
                              >
                              > My concern had nothing to do with "bulging" between the letters, but
                              > the fact that there was so little definition between the letters, so
                              > that the whole line of type appeared to be surrounded by a slight
                              > depression caused by very shallow shoulders. With the Toyobo (either
                              > 95 or 152) I've not had this problem. While the impression was not
                              > wimpy, neither was it excessive. There is never embossing on the verso.
                              >
                              > Cheers
                              > P
                              >
                              >
                              > On 8 May 2008, at 6:43 PM, kringds wrote:
                              > > Hi Gerald,
                              > >
                              > > I was browsing the archives on dampening paper and came across your
                              > > post below in
                              > > which you seem suprised at the dampening of Lettra. Could you tell
                              > > me why you were
                              > > supprised?
                              > >
                              > > I am getting ready to print a job on 32# lettra and am debating if I
                              > > should dampen the
                              > > paper. I will be printing on polymer plates with primarily line art
                              > > with black ink.
                              > >
                              > > I have dampened heavier weight paper before with good results but I
                              > > am wondering if it
                              > > makes sense for a lighter weight paper. I assume it does. Could you
                              > > or anyone with
                              > > experience let me know their opinion on this?
                              > >
                              > > As always, thanks for the help and advice.
                              > >
                              > > bryan kring
                              >
                              > Peter Fraterdeus
                              > Exquisite Letterpress
                              > http://slowprint.com
                              >
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