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Trip mechanism on Vandercook 325A

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  • Eileen Madden
    Hello again List - I have a Vandercook 325A press. I ve had it for about 6 months now. The trip mechanism has stopped working. The trip on this Vandercook is
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 30, 2008
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      Hello again List -

      I have a Vandercook 325A press. I've had it for about 6 months now.
      The trip mechanism has stopped working. The trip on this Vandercook
      is a handle that gets pulled out, and connects by a chain to the trip
      on the other side of the machine. When I first got it, the handle
      stayed out until I pushed it back in. After a little while, it
      started sliding back by itself, and now it won't stay out at all. The
      press is very large, so holding the trip lever out while inking takes
      a longer arm span than life has handed me. . . .

      Any suggestions? This press has not been used hard, nothing is on the
      floor around it that looks like it's fallen off. I have a manual, but
      it's mostly schematics that are not particularly helpful to me.

      Thanks in advance.

      Eileen
    • parallel_imp
      ... Eileen, I have the 325G, but its trip mechanism is different. The handle moves left and right, moving a rod that connects to linkages on the far side,
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 30, 2008
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        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Eileen Madden <emadden1@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello again List -
        >
        > I have a Vandercook 325A press. I've had it for about 6 months now.
        > The trip mechanism has stopped working. The trip on this Vandercook
        > is a handle that gets pulled out, and connects by a chain to the trip
        > on the other side of the machine. When I first got it, the handle
        > stayed out until I pushed it back in. After a little while, it
        > started sliding back by itself, and now it won't stay out at all.

        Eileen, I have the 325G, but its trip mechanism is different. The
        handle moves left and right, moving a rod that connects to linkages on
        the far side, controlling the flipper that actually moves the cylinder
        up and down. On/off position of the flipper seems to rely on tension
        of a spring mid-linkage. (Maybe yours is more like the No. 4, which
        requires that the pivot-bolt is tight.)
        All I can suggest is follow the linkages, make sure they are tight,
        look for loose pins or screws or nuts, and look for a spring. If one
        came loose, it wouldn't necessarily fall straight down.
        --Eric Holub, SF
      • russwiecking
        Eileen, Until Eric suggested that your trip was broken, I just thought it might have been gummy and just loosened up with use. I have 315 with what sounds like
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 31, 2008
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          Eileen,

          Until Eric suggested that your trip was broken, I just thought it might
          have been gummy and just loosened up with use. I have 315 with what
          sounds like the same mechanism/linkage. I did a complete
          disassembly/cleanup when I got the press and never noticed any sign of
          features that would hold the trip.

          BUT, thanks for bringing it up! Looking at my press today I see that
          there is a chamfered, unthreaded hole to the right of the trip handle.
          Trip handle
          <http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Russ_Wiecking/Tripmechanism900\
          .jpg> . The hole is drilled at an angle towards the handle shaft. When
          I poked a drill bit down there it hit the shaft. If the handle was in
          trip when I did it it seemed to wedge the handle in position. I am
          missing the necessary part to lock in trip. Perhaps you are, too. Thanks
          for the help!

          Russ



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • parallel_imp
          ... Russ, I ve never seen a 315 so I can t even guess what how your trip mechanism works. But that hole rather looks like a oil hole --something often
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 31, 2008
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            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "russwiecking" <russ@...> wrote:

            > Looking at my press today I see that there is a chamfered,
            > unthreaded hole to the right of the trip handle.

            Russ, I've never seen a 315 so I can't even guess what how your trip
            mechanism works. But that hole rather looks like a oil hole
            --something often overlooked on Vandercooks!

            Eric Holub, SF
          • russwiecking
            ... Eric, You are right. I was going to say that a horizontal oil hole was pretty poor. What was I supposed to do, turn the press on its side to lube the trip
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 1, 2008
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              > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "russwiecking" russ@ wrote:
              >
              > > Looking at my press today I see that there is a chamfered,
              > > unthreaded hole to the right of the trip handle.
              >
              > Russ, I've never seen a 315 so I can't even guess what how your trip
              > mechanism works. But that hole rather looks like a oil hole
              > --something often overlooked on Vandercooks!
              >
              > Eric Holub, SF
              >
              Eric,

              You are right. I was going to say that a horizontal oil hole was pretty
              poor. What was I supposed to do, turn the press on its side to lube the
              trip lever? Ah, well, on closer examination the hole, which is 3/32
              diameter, is angled slightly downward as well as into the trip lever
              shaft bore. So, again, I think you are right. Other oil holes on the
              press are chamfered the same as this one.

              Schematic
              <http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Russ_Wiecking/Vandermanualtrip\
              linkagetcm.jpg> (Eileen. Does this schematic represent your 325 A's
              trip mechanism?)

              On my press, which uses an inking plate, distribution of the ink is
              accomplished by running the carriage back and forth on the bed. During
              this operation the rollers must be in print position in order for them
              to contact the ink plate as well as for the pinions to engage the rack
              (Which, BTW, is the same rack that the cylinder engages. There is no
              rack dedicated to the rollers as would be found on an SP-15, for
              instance). This means there can be no matter on the bed during ink
              distribution which, in turn, means that there is no need to put the
              cylinder in trip for this operation. In fact, it would seem slightly
              undesirable to run the carriage in trip position due to the wear caused
              by poor cylinder-to-rack engagement. Anyway, it seems that this press
              may have had no need for anything more than a "one time" manual trip
              and, hence, no lock.

              What do you think? If there is a missing lock mechanism it would almost
              certainly be located in the vicinity of the block that houses the trip
              lever as shown in the schematic, perhaps mounted to a plate that would
              be sandwiched between the under side of the press bed and the block.

              Russ, S?



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • parallel_imp
              ...
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 2, 2008
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                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "russwiecking" <russ@...> wrote:
                >
                > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "russwiecking" russ@ wrote:
                >
                > Schematic
                >
                <http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Russ_Wiecking/Vandermanualtrip\
                > linkagetcm.jpg> (Eileen. Does this schematic represent your 325 A's
                > trip mechanism?)
                >
                Russ, that's an unusual design--when there's a linkage across the
                press in most cases Vandercook uses a rod. A chain needs tension at
                both ends to work (you can't push a chain), say by springs or weight.
                You've got a spring on the handle end, but what is the source of
                tension on the flipper end? Again, a missing spring would cause problems.

                > On my press, which uses an inking plate, distribution of the ink is
                > accomplished by running the carriage back and forth on the bed. During
                > this operation the rollers must be in print position in order for them
                > to contact the ink plate as well as for the pinions to engage the rack
                > (Which, BTW, is the same rack that the cylinder engages. There is no
                > rack dedicated to the rollers as would be found on an SP-15, for
                > instance). This means there can be no matter on the bed during ink
                > distribution which, in turn, means that there is no need to put the
                > cylinder in trip for this operation. In fact, it would seem slightly
                > undesirable to run the carriage in trip position due to the wear caused
                > by poor cylinder-to-rack engagement. Anyway, it seems that this press
                > may have had no need for anything more than a "one time" manual trip
                > and, hence, no lock.
                >
                Does the mechanism automatically go back to print after a cycle on
                trip? Some designs do that. If I recall correctly, your press is
                galley-height, and moving galley forms in and out was normal use.
                My 325G also has plate inking and needs to cranked for distribution
                (it can help to brayer ink on the plate as well). But it inks the form
                whether on trip or print; the roller supports are attached to the side
                frame of the cylinder carriage, which only changes height slightly
                between trip and print; the roller gears have their own rack, and
                rather coarse long teeth, so they engage in both positions.
                The 325 also has the rollers behind the cylinder, so you need to
                ink on trip for the first sheet. Are your rollers toward the form or
                behind the cylinder, relative to print direction?
                --Eric Holub, SF
              • russwiecking
                Eric, The spring was missing only in my schematic (but no longer). I
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 2, 2008
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                  Eric,

                  The spring was missing only in my schematic
                  <http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Russ_Wiecking/Vandermanualtrip\
                  linkagetcm.jpg> (but no longer). I have to agree that it is a strange
                  design considering the mentality that provided of an oil hole to
                  lubricate a simple sliding fit rod that can be pulled out and oiled
                  directly --but not so "perfectly" as with the oil hole. Use of a chain
                  does not seem to be of the usual "official" quality of design that makes
                  Vandercooks so satisfying. But it works and my guess is that it was not
                  intended to lock for reasons described earlier. Do you know of any
                  presses that do not lock in trip?

                  Russ



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Eileen Madden
                  Russ - This does, indeed represent my trip mechanism. If I understand you correctly, and from working with the press it makes some sense, tripping the press
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 2, 2008
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                    Russ -

                    This does, indeed represent my trip mechanism. If I understand you
                    correctly, and from working with the press it makes some sense,
                    tripping the press isn't really necessary since the paper precedes the
                    rollers? One would have it in print mode to ink the type, and since
                    the tympan is in front, there's no need for tripping to ink? I'm not
                    sure if that's accurate. All I know is that chain has come is not at
                    tight as it was when I first got it (nine months or so ago. . . .)

                    We had a snow day here in Evanston, so I've not had a chance to get
                    under it and look for the oil holes you mention. Your drawing was
                    easier for me to follow than the schematics in the manual I have.

                    I'm afraid I don't know what "chamfered" means?

                    Thanks.

                    Eileen


                    On Feb 1, 2008, at 8:15 PM, russwiecking wrote:

                    > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "russwiecking" russ@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > Looking at my press today I see that there is a chamfered,
                    > > > unthreaded hole to the right of the trip handle.
                    > >
                    > > Russ, I've never seen a 315 so I can't even guess what how your trip
                    > > mechanism works. But that hole rather looks like a oil hole
                    > > --something often overlooked on Vandercooks!
                    > >
                    > > Eric Holub, SF
                    > >
                    > Eric,
                    >
                    > You are right. I was going to say that a horizontal oil hole was
                    > pretty
                    > poor. What was I supposed to do, turn the press on its side to lube
                    > the
                    > trip lever? Ah, well, on closer examination the hole, which is 3/32
                    > diameter, is angled slightly downward as well as into the trip lever
                    > shaft bore. So, again, I think you are right. Other oil holes on the
                    > press are chamfered the same as this one.
                    >
                    > Schematic
                    > <http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff181/Russ_Wiecking/Vandermanualtrip
                    > \
                    > linkagetcm.jpg> (Eileen. Does this schematic represent your 325 A's
                    > trip mechanism?)
                    >
                    > On my press, which uses an inking plate, distribution of the ink is
                    > accomplished by running the carriage back and forth on the bed. During
                    > this operation the rollers must be in print position in order for them
                    > to contact the ink plate as well as for the pinions to engage the rack
                    > (Which, BTW, is the same rack that the cylinder engages. There is no
                    > rack dedicated to the rollers as would be found on an SP-15, for
                    > instance). This means there can be no matter on the bed during ink
                    > distribution which, in turn, means that there is no need to put the
                    > cylinder in trip for this operation. In fact, it would seem slightly
                    > undesirable to run the carriage in trip position due to the wear
                    > caused
                    > by poor cylinder-to-rack engagement. Anyway, it seems that this press
                    > may have had no need for anything more than a "one time" manual trip
                    > and, hence, no lock.
                    >
                    > What do you think? If there is a missing lock mechanism it would
                    > almost
                    > certainly be located in the vicinity of the block that houses the trip
                    > lever as shown in the schematic, perhaps mounted to a plate that would
                    > be sandwiched between the under side of the press bed and the block.
                    >
                    > Russ, S?
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • russwiecking
                    Eileen, I am only familiar with 325A thanks to the picture on Moxon s site. Comparing the pictures (http://vandercookpress.info/images/325AH.jpg and
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 2, 2008
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                      Eileen,

                      I am only familiar with 325A thanks to the picture on Moxon's site.
                      Comparing the pictures (http://vandercookpress.info/images/325AH.jpg
                      and http://vandercookpress.info/images/315.jpg). Though I can't see
                      how your rollers work, it looks like the 315 is almost a functional
                      mirror image of the 325A. So my question is, does the form have to be
                      off of the press bed when you ink the rollers? If so, then maybe you
                      do not need a trip lock. I'm sure someone who knows presses better
                      than I, can correct or confirm.

                      Russ
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