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Re: Miehle Vertical Paper compatibility (was: C&P makeready)

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  • Lance Williams
    Lisa, From my personal experience, I have run paper as light as 16# bond up to .023 chipboard, but the heavier stocks do require that the grain of the paper
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 1, 2007
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      Lisa,

      From my personal experience, I have run paper as light as 16# bond up to
      .023" chipboard, but the heavier stocks do require that the grain of the
      paper be parallel to the cylinder to allow the paper to curl around the
      cylinder on impression. I have spent most of my printing career printing
      on commodity grades of paper, but I have run papers like Neenah Cover
      (110#) and Crane's Lettra (110#) on our V-50's many times... And, of
      course, the .023" chipboard was a special project, and I don't know if I
      would want to do it again, but I do know it can be done, at least..

      - Lance Williams
      Williams Stationery Co.
      Camden, New York
      APA #785



      > [Original Message]
      > From: Lisa Davidson <lisaxdavidson@...>
      > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
      > Date: 12/1/2007 2:47:40 PM
      > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] C&P makeready
      >
      >
      > Hi, Scott,
      >
      > Can you tell me off-hand in gsm, etc., the outer and inner limits of
      > Miehle paper compatibility -- how thick is too thick, etc.? or just
      > brands of paper that work or don't work in it?
      >
      > Thank you,
      >
      > Lisa
      >
      >
      > On Nov 30, 2007, at 6:37 PM, Scott Rubel wrote:
      >
      > > Miehle is a really solid press and looks scary at first, but, like
      > > anything, you can do it once you learn and it will keep on going
      > > without a hitch.
      > >
      > > Remember, though, that it uses a cylinder. My got rid of my V36
      > > because I was doing more and more work on very thick paper and extra
      > > thin paper. The thick paper cannot flex around the cylinder and the
      > > tissue thin paper can actually distort, even with a light impression,
      > > on any cylinder press. Best to print these on a flat bed.
      > >
      > > Everyone has given good advice on the C&P. You can assume any flat
      > > bed press you get, if it has never been re-adjusted, will be parallel
      > > at the expected impression depth. Adjustment is easy in principal,
      > > but can be frustrating to get it just right. At first you will
      > > overestimate how much you need to turn each nut. It helps to have a
      > > friend with you so to turn the wheel for each test so you never have
      > > to put down the wrench.
      > >
      > > Keep asking questions. You have an admirable deficiency of
      > > trepidation.
      > >
      > > --Scott
      > >
      > > On Nov 30, 2007, at 10:07 AM, Lisa Davidson wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > > > Hi, Ph.D.,
      > > >
      > > > I forgot -- I also inquired about Miehle verticals and platinum
      > > > printing. I have been messing around with Pt for at least four or
      > > > five years, reading, experimenting, etc., and thought she had
      > > > something I didn't know about. But Miehle is something else.
      > > >
      > > > Lisa
      > > >
      > > > On Nov 30, 2007, at 6:54 AM, Ph. D. wrote:
      > > >
      > > >> lisaxdavidson skribis:
      > > >>>
      > > >>> Hi everyone -- I've never used a C&P, but
      > > >>> someone told me that since the two platen halves
      > > >>> are not strictly parallel (closer at the hinge), there
      > > >>> is some way that you have to make up for this in
      > > >>> makeready. How do you do it?
      > > >>
      > > >> C&P presses have adjusting bolts below the platen
      > > >> to make it parallel when touching the type. The
      > > >> table-top Pilot press is hinged, so if you're printing
      > > >> really thick stock, you may need to adjust the bolts.
      > > >> The floor model C&P presses have a platen which
      > > >> rotates as it moves toward the type, so it stays
      > > >> parallel through a much greater range of stock
      > > >> thicknesses. Once the platen is adjusted to be
      > > >> parallel, you should not need to adjust it again.
      > > >>
      > > >> You've asked about getting a Ludlow, a Heidelberg,
      > > >> and other equipment. It might be helpful to tell us
      > > >> exactly what experience in letterpress you have.
      > > >> What equipment do you own? What have you used?
      > > >> Have you taken any letterpress classes? Have you
      > > >> read any letterpress instruction books?
      > > >>
      > > >> (Note that the "half" where the paper goes is called
      > > >> the platen. The "half" where the type goes is called
      > > >> the bed.")
      > > >>
      > > >> --Ph. D.
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Scott Rubel
      I m glad Lance answered before I did. Without being so scientific about it, I would just answer, take your piece of paper and curled it up and, if it can curl
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 1, 2007
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        I'm glad Lance answered before I did. Without being so scientific
        about it, I would just answer, take your piece of paper and curled it
        up and, if it can curl into something like a nine inch diameter roll
        without cracking, and if it uncurls back into acceptable flatness for
        your purposes, then you can probably run it on a cylinder. So, you
        cannot describe the application purely in terms of thicknessā€¦it's
        also stiffness, which I don't know how to put a number to. Getting
        the grain right is good advice, but you don't always have control of
        grain when you're being economical and getting the most pieces out of
        a parent sheet.

        --Scott

        On Dec 1, 2007, at 12:12 PM, Lance Williams wrote:

        > Lisa,
        >
        > From my personal experience, I have run paper as light as 16# bond
        > up to
        > .023" chipboard, but the heavier stocks do require that the grain
        > of the
        > paper be parallel to the cylinder to allow the paper to curl around
        > the
        > cylinder on impression. I have spent most of my printing career
        > printing
        > on commodity grades of paper, but I have run papers like Neenah Cover
        > (110#) and Crane's Lettra (110#) on our V-50's many times... And, of
        > course, the .023" chipboard was a special project, and I don't know
        > if I
        > would want to do it again, but I do know it can be done, at least..
        >
        > - Lance Williams
        > Williams Stationery Co.
        > Camden, New York
        > APA #785
        >
        >
        >> [Original Message]
        >> From: Lisa Davidson <lisaxdavidson@...>
        >>
        >> Hi, Scott,
        >>
        >> Can you tell me off-hand in gsm, etc., the outer and inner limits of
        >> Miehle paper compatibility -- how thick is too thick, etc.? or just
        >> brands of paper that work or don't work in it?
        >>
        >> Thank you,
        >>
        >> Lisa
        >>
        >>
        >> On Nov 30, 2007, at 6:37 PM, Scott Rubel wrote:
        >>
        >>> Miehle is a really solid press and looks scary at first, but, like
        >>> anything, you can do it once you learn and it will keep on going
        >>> without a hitch.
        >>>
        >>> Remember, though, that it uses a cylinder. My got rid of my V36
        >>> because I was doing more and more work on very thick paper and extra
        >>> thin paper. The thick paper cannot flex around the cylinder and the
        >>> tissue thin paper can actually distort, even with a light
        >>> impression,
        >>> on any cylinder press. Best to print these on a flat bed.
        >>>
        >>> Everyone has given good advice on the C&P. You can assume any flat
        >>> bed press you get, if it has never been re-adjusted, will be
        >>> parallel
        >>> at the expected impression depth. Adjustment is easy in principal,
        >>> but can be frustrating to get it just right. At first you will
        >>> overestimate how much you need to turn each nut. It helps to have a
        >>> friend with you so to turn the wheel for each test so you never have
        >>> to put down the wrench.
        >>>
        >>> Keep asking questions. You have an admirable deficiency of
        >>> trepidation.
        >>>
        >>> --Scott
        >>>
        >>> On Nov 30, 2007, at 10:07 AM, Lisa Davidson wrote:
        >>>
        >>>>
        >>>> Hi, Ph.D.,
        >>>>
        >>>> I forgot -- I also inquired about Miehle verticals and platinum
        >>>> printing. I have been messing around with Pt for at least four or
        >>>> five years, reading, experimenting, etc., and thought she had
        >>>> something I didn't know about. But Miehle is something else.
        >>>>
        >>>> Lisa
        >>>>
        >>>> On Nov 30, 2007, at 6:54 AM, Ph. D. wrote:
        >>>>
        >>>>> lisaxdavidson skribis:
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>> Hi everyone -- I've never used a C&P, but
        >>>>>> someone told me that since the two platen halves
        >>>>>> are not strictly parallel (closer at the hinge), there
        >>>>>> is some way that you have to make up for this in
        >>>>>> makeready. How do you do it?
        >>>>>
        >>>>> C&P presses have adjusting bolts below the platen
        >>>>> to make it parallel when touching the type. The
        >>>>> table-top Pilot press is hinged, so if you're printing
        >>>>> really thick stock, you may need to adjust the bolts.
        >>>>> The floor model C&P presses have a platen which
        >>>>> rotates as it moves toward the type, so it stays
        >>>>> parallel through a much greater range of stock
        >>>>> thicknesses. Once the platen is adjusted to be
        >>>>> parallel, you should not need to adjust it again.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> You've asked about getting a Ludlow, a Heidelberg,
        >>>>> and other equipment. It might be helpful to tell us
        >>>>> exactly what experience in letterpress you have.
        >>>>> What equipment do you own? What have you used?
        >>>>> Have you taken any letterpress classes? Have you
        >>>>> read any letterpress instruction books?
        >>>>>
        >>>>> (Note that the "half" where the paper goes is called
        >>>>> the platen. The "half" where the type goes is called
        >>>>> the bed.")
        >>>>>
        >>>>> --Ph. D.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Lisa Davidson
        Thank you both -- sounds very good. And, plus, you don t have to make an ICC profile for it. I still can t get used to the idea -- such luxury, just to pick
        Message 3 of 3 , Dec 1, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Thank you both -- sounds very good. And, plus, you don't have to
          make an ICC profile for it. I still can't get used to the idea --
          such luxury, just to pick it up and stick it in a press. obviously
          there are other things to do, but at least they're not on a
          computer . . . .

          On Dec 1, 2007, at 1:06 PM, Scott Rubel wrote:

          > I'm glad Lance answered before I did. Without being so scientific
          > about it, I would just answer, take your piece of paper and curled it
          > up and, if it can curl into something like a nine inch diameter roll
          > without cracking, and if it uncurls back into acceptable flatness for
          > your purposes, then you can probably run it on a cylinder. So, you
          > cannot describe the application purely in terms of thicknessā€¦it's
          > also stiffness, which I don't know how to put a number to. Getting
          > the grain right is good advice, but you don't always have control of
          > grain when you're being economical and getting the most pieces out of
          > a parent sheet.
          >
          > --Scott
          >
          > On Dec 1, 2007, at 12:12 PM, Lance Williams wrote:
          >
          >> Lisa,
          >>
          >> From my personal experience, I have run paper as light as 16# bond
          >> up to
          >> .023" chipboard, but the heavier stocks do require that the grain
          >> of the
          >> paper be parallel to the cylinder to allow the paper to curl around
          >> the
          >> cylinder on impression. I have spent most of my printing career
          >> printing
          >> on commodity grades of paper, but I have run papers like Neenah Cover
          >> (110#) and Crane's Lettra (110#) on our V-50's many times... And, of
          >> course, the .023" chipboard was a special project, and I don't know
          >> if I
          >> would want to do it again, but I do know it can be done, at least..
          >>
          >> - Lance Williams
          >> Williams Stationery Co.
          >> Camden, New York
          >> APA #785
          >>
          >>
          >>> [Original Message]
          >>> From: Lisa Davidson <lisaxdavidson@...>
          >>>
          >>> Hi, Scott,
          >>>
          >>> Can you tell me off-hand in gsm, etc., the outer and inner limits of
          >>> Miehle paper compatibility -- how thick is too thick, etc.? or just
          >>> brands of paper that work or don't work in it?
          >>>
          >>> Thank you,
          >>>
          >>> Lisa
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> On Nov 30, 2007, at 6:37 PM, Scott Rubel wrote:
          >>>
          >>>> Miehle is a really solid press and looks scary at first, but, like
          >>>> anything, you can do it once you learn and it will keep on going
          >>>> without a hitch.
          >>>>
          >>>> Remember, though, that it uses a cylinder. My got rid of my V36
          >>>> because I was doing more and more work on very thick paper and
          >>>> extra
          >>>> thin paper. The thick paper cannot flex around the cylinder and the
          >>>> tissue thin paper can actually distort, even with a light
          >>>> impression,
          >>>> on any cylinder press. Best to print these on a flat bed.
          >>>>
          >>>> Everyone has given good advice on the C&P. You can assume any flat
          >>>> bed press you get, if it has never been re-adjusted, will be
          >>>> parallel
          >>>> at the expected impression depth. Adjustment is easy in principal,
          >>>> but can be frustrating to get it just right. At first you will
          >>>> overestimate how much you need to turn each nut. It helps to have a
          >>>> friend with you so to turn the wheel for each test so you never
          >>>> have
          >>>> to put down the wrench.
          >>>>
          >>>> Keep asking questions. You have an admirable deficiency of
          >>>> trepidation.
          >>>>
          >>>> --Scott
          >>>>
          >>>> On Nov 30, 2007, at 10:07 AM, Lisa Davidson wrote:
          >>>>
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Hi, Ph.D.,
          >>>>>
          >>>>> I forgot -- I also inquired about Miehle verticals and platinum
          >>>>> printing. I have been messing around with Pt for at least four or
          >>>>> five years, reading, experimenting, etc., and thought she had
          >>>>> something I didn't know about. But Miehle is something else.
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Lisa
          >>>>>
          >>>>> On Nov 30, 2007, at 6:54 AM, Ph. D. wrote:
          >>>>>
          >>>>>> lisaxdavidson skribis:
          >>>>>>>
          >>>>>>> Hi everyone -- I've never used a C&P, but
          >>>>>>> someone told me that since the two platen halves
          >>>>>>> are not strictly parallel (closer at the hinge), there
          >>>>>>> is some way that you have to make up for this in
          >>>>>>> makeready. How do you do it?
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> C&P presses have adjusting bolts below the platen
          >>>>>> to make it parallel when touching the type. The
          >>>>>> table-top Pilot press is hinged, so if you're printing
          >>>>>> really thick stock, you may need to adjust the bolts.
          >>>>>> The floor model C&P presses have a platen which
          >>>>>> rotates as it moves toward the type, so it stays
          >>>>>> parallel through a much greater range of stock
          >>>>>> thicknesses. Once the platen is adjusted to be
          >>>>>> parallel, you should not need to adjust it again.
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> You've asked about getting a Ludlow, a Heidelberg,
          >>>>>> and other equipment. It might be helpful to tell us
          >>>>>> exactly what experience in letterpress you have.
          >>>>>> What equipment do you own? What have you used?
          >>>>>> Have you taken any letterpress classes? Have you
          >>>>>> read any letterpress instruction books?
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> (Note that the "half" where the paper goes is called
          >>>>>> the platen. The "half" where the type goes is called
          >>>>>> the bed.")
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>> --Ph. D.
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>>
          >>
          >>
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
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