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Mounting bases and halftones

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  • Bryan Hutcheson
    Thanks to everyone who gave me feedback on the mounting base questions I posted last week.!!!!!!!!! Also thanks to everyone who gave me info on the halftone
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 7, 2000
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      Thanks to everyone who gave me feedback on the mounting base questions I
      posted last week.!!!!!!!!!

      Also thanks to everyone who gave me info on the halftone question I posted.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Brian Molanphy
      I m not sure that you would want to attempt to replicate the kind of work that is done from a computer in offset printing as letterpress. More that you can
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 3, 2002
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        'I'm not sure that you would want to attempt to replicate the kind
        of work that is done "from a computer in offset printing" as
        letterpress. More that you can supplement your letterpress needs with
        the computer. I only got involved with photopolymer because it
        allowed me certain advantages in my letterpress work. What you do not
        want to do, is assume you must change the way you envision the page,
        simply because of this differing technology. What is unique about
        digital technology is that it is essentially a simulator of the tools
        of previous technologies, not a tool itself, and that is where it can
        be taken advantage of. I've gone on and on about this previously and
        elsewhere but I believe it constantly bears repeating. The computer
        doesn't have a material basis, you must supply this. In this regard,
        believe it or not, you actually have the advantage over the computer
        design folks because you know what physical spacing and physical
        leading and physical type and physical etc is. In a differing
        context, Eric Gill said, "Letters are things, not pictures of
        things," but, what the hey, I'll use it.' (g. lange)

        gerald, thanks for this. i'll show your quote to students to explain what
        we're up to here. -brian molanphy
      • Peter Fraterdeus
        Brian Are you working at Prof. Trissel s Press at Colorado College? I m very glad to hear that the Press survives! I knew Jim in the early 90 s, he invited me
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 3, 2002
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          Brian

          Are you working at Prof. Trissel's Press at Colorado College? I'm very glad to hear that the Press survives!

          I knew Jim in the early 90's, he invited me to teach a course on Book Structure. I also designed a bookplate for the press for him...

          He was, of course, very enthusiastic about photo-poly, even then...

          Regarding Gerald's statement below, I hope you'll also consider my thoughts in the "materiality" thread. I am a firm believer in the work of the hand (including letter carving!), but also that the computer should not be dismissed as merely a 'simulator' of 'real' techniques! If one is going to use photons to make an image, it is surely "un-natural" to force them to behave according to the laws of lead, thus belying the 'materials' involved!

          None-the-less, I would also point out that the best typographers, whether in lead or light have also learned to write with a broad pen. The 'rules' of typography which we are 'simulating' on the computer were, of course, first organized by the ancients, in particular Alcuin of York, chief of Charlemagne's scriptorium in Tours (9th C.)... If my Mac is simulating my composing stone, then the stone is a simulation of the writing desk!

          And will leave it at that, not to ruin the prior impression with offsetting ;-)

          Best to you and the Press!

          Peter

          At 9:27 AM -0600 2002-09-03, Brian Molanphy wrote:
          >'I'm not sure that you would want to attempt to replicate the kind
          >of work that is done "from a computer in offset printing" as
          >letterpress. More that you can supplement your letterpress needs with
          >the computer. I only got involved with photopolymer because it
          >allowed me certain advantages in my letterpress work. What you do not
          >want to do, is assume you must change the way you envision the page,
          >simply because of this differing technology. What is unique about
          >digital technology is that it is essentially a simulator of the tools
          >of previous technologies, not a tool itself, and that is where it can
          >be taken advantage of. I've gone on and on about this previously and
          >elsewhere but I believe it constantly bears repeating. The computer
          >doesn't have a material basis, you must supply this. In this regard,
          >believe it or not, you actually have the advantage over the computer
          >design folks because you know what physical spacing and physical
          >leading and physical type and physical etc is. In a differing
          >context, Eric Gill said, "Letters are things, not pictures of
          >things," but, what the hey, I'll use it.' (g. lange)
          >
          >gerald, thanks for this. i'll show your quote to students to explain what
          >we're up to here. -brian molanphy
          >

          --
          -
          AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa& @

          Peter Fraterdeus http://www.midsummernightstamps.com
          www.semiotx.com Magical Images from the Moon's Garden!

          Whatever happened to the War Against Injustice and Poverty!
          End Terrorism? End Poverty!
        • David Goodrich
          This discussion has been most interesting and I would like to expand it a little further. Whenever a new technology has been introduced, the first instinct has
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 3, 2002
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            This discussion has been most interesting and I would like to expand it a
            little further.

            Whenever a new technology has been introduced, the first instinct has been
            to apply it so as to mimic the processes already in use. Only after time do
            the possibilities of the new technology become apparent and entirely new
            processes and uses emerge.

            When the industrial revolution first started applying power (water and later
            steam) to perform tasks, the initial devices employed closely imitated the
            hand processes that had been used. Some of the contraptions first devised
            seem pretty ludicrous today. Only after inventors realized that the rotary
            nature of the power drive called for a totally different approach to
            designing machinery did the real benefit appear.

            Similarly, when people first started conceiving robots in the 1930's they
            were little metal men with hands and legs who performed tasks just as people
            would. They were a joke. But today computer driven robots perform all
            sorts of precision tasks in the manufacturing process and they look nothing
            like any human counterpart.

            As Gerald pointed out, computers are simply big adding machines. When IBM
            first applied them to business record keeping, they "emulated" the manual
            bookkeeping procedures that had been developed by large corporations for
            handling thousands of transactions: they sorted, added up and summarized
            individual records and transferred the totals to larger and larger summary
            files of data. It was only when programmers took advantage of the
            computer's capabilities to work with random access memory that the ability
            to manage and use information created a revolution in how business itself is
            conducted.

            In our own narrow field, Gutenberg created a technology that attempted to
            mimic handwritten manuscripts. It took Aldus to recognize that the new
            technology created possibilities for the widespread diffusion of inexpensive
            and easily portable books and he created a new typography suitable to its
            purpose.

            There is no question in my mind that the application of computers and
            digitalization to the graphic arts is in its infancy. Although imitating
            little lead castings is one possibility, the ultimate use of this technology
            has not yet even been imagined.
          • bielerpr
            ... ogy ... HI David Well thought out, but I just have a guestion or two I d like to pose in regard to your last statement here. Perhaps this needs to be
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 3, 2002
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              > There is no question in my mind that the application of computers and
              > digitalization to the graphic arts is in its infancy. Although imitating=
              > little lead castings is one possibility, the ultimate use of this technol=ogy
              > has not yet even been imagined.

              HI David

              Well thought out, but I just have a guestion or two I'd like to pose
              in regard to your last statement here. Perhaps this needs to be
              considered?

              I recently read on that statistical page in Harper's that the
              majority of humans living on the planet have never used a telephone.
              This is an interesting statistic don't you think? What does that say
              for the notion of unimpeded progress for digital technology in a
              world where most folks don't participate? Especially considering that
              our material resources are not infinite and economic decline is
              almost inevitable? (In eight years we will reach the half way point
              in exploiting the earth's "possible" bio mass—another debatable
              statistic but this revealed from the oil industry itself). So,
              perhaps digital technology is not in its infancy, but already in its
              middle age???

              I suppose I sound like a Luddite. I'd like to think I'm not. But to
              put our faith in a continuous technological progress (in which very
              few of us, or any of us, actually play a part) may not exactly be a
              desirable, or realizable, goal.

              I suspect what I have said here would then tend to diminish the value
              of our letterpress work here and now... perhaps. Perhaps not. We do
              live in the here and now. And what we do here and now is what we have
              to offer the future. Just as we were informed by the past, that is also
              what we have to give over. We worked with our hands, and our minds, and
              our hearts. Is that too small a message to send to the future?

              Gerald
            • Sue Clancy
              Hi all, As a former digital addict (I ve a BFA in fine art with an emphasis in graphic design) - I gotta admit I ve fallen back in love with the human touch
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 4, 2002
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                Hi all,

                As a former digital addict (I've a BFA in fine art with an emphasis in graphic
                design) - I gotta admit I've fallen back in love with 'the human touch' after years
                of work as a 'graphics' person. So much so that some 5 years back I decided that I
                could no longer stomach my job as a graphic designer/pre-press person at a local
                printing press. (I couldn't contribute to the landfill by creating slick coated
                mass-produced things that had a very very short shelf life - things like media
                guides for sporting events etc.)
                I quit and went to work for myself - making hand made stuff. I won't go into the
                long-winded list of what all I'm doing now, but I LOVE seeing other artists
                letterpress work! I LOVE seeing original pen and ink illustrations. I LOVE doing
                pen and ink illustrations and 're-producing' them via woodcuts or linocuts!
                There's nothing better than getting your hands dirty and making something with a
                personal flavor (both in the creation of, and the reading/looking.)
                There's also nothing better than looking at something someone made with the sweat
                of their brow.
                And there's no better feeling - for me anyway - than after having worked a hard
                days work, settling down in my easy chair with a cold beer knowing that I exerted
                myself body, mind and spirit and that I gave it my all!

                Sue


                bielerpr wrote:

                > > There is no question in my mind that the application of computers and
                > > digitalization to the graphic arts is in its infancy. Although imitating=
                > > little lead castings is one possibility, the ultimate use of this technol=ogy
                > > has not yet even been imagined.
                >
                > HI David
                >
                > Well thought out, but I just have a guestion or two I'd like to pose
                > in regard to your last statement here. Perhaps this needs to be
                > considered?
                >
                > I recently read on that statistical page in Harper's that the
                > majority of humans living on the planet have never used a telephone.
                > This is an interesting statistic don't you think? What does that say
                > for the notion of unimpeded progress for digital technology in a
                > world where most folks don't participate? Especially considering that
                > our material resources are not infinite and economic decline is
                > almost inevitable? (In eight years we will reach the half way point
                > in exploiting the earth's "possible" bio mass—another debatable
                > statistic but this revealed from the oil industry itself). So,
                > perhaps digital technology is not in its infancy, but already in its
                > middle age???
                >
                > I suppose I sound like a Luddite. I'd like to think I'm not. But to
                > put our faith in a continuous technological progress (in which very
                > few of us, or any of us, actually play a part) may not exactly be a
                > desirable, or realizable, goal.
                >
                > I suspect what I have said here would then tend to diminish the value
                > of our letterpress work here and now... perhaps. Perhaps not. We do
                > live in the here and now. And what we do here and now is what we have
                > to offer the future. Just as we were informed by the past, that is also
                > what we have to give over. We worked with our hands, and our minds, and
                > our hearts. Is that too small a message to send to the future?
                >
                > Gerald
                >
                >
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              • Katie Harper
                A while back, there was a discussion on this list about scanning either grayscale or color artwork and using Photoshop tools to turn the image into really
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 4, 2002
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                  A while back, there was a discussion on this list about scanning either
                  grayscale or color artwork and using Photoshop tools to turn the image into
                  really nice, clean line art. At least I think that was what we read about. I
                  can't seem to find those messages now. Can someone refresh my memory about
                  the technique involved? I have an old Victorian print that a customer wants
                  me to turn into line art for a letterpress plate. My thinking right now is
                  that the most successful method will be to simply redraw the image, tracing
                  over it. However, I'm stumped as to what to do with the subtle tonalities of
                  grays. Perhaps doing a sort of wood cut effect to render the gray tones
                  would be an option.

                  Any other suggestions? If you email me offlist, I can send you a PDF of the
                  scanned artwork, if that will help.

                  Thanks.


                  Katie Harper
                  Ars Brevis Press
                  Cincinnati, OH
                  513-233-9588
                  http://www.arsbrevispress.com
                • Gerald Lange
                  ... Katie The thread ran in and out from message 775 into the early 800s with a follow up or two. I believe what you are inquiring about was Mark Attwood s
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 4, 2002
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                    > A while back, there was a discussion on this list about scanning either
                    > grayscale or color artwork and using Photoshop tools to turn the image into
                    > really nice, clean line art. At least I think that was what we read about. I
                    > can't seem to find those messages now. Can someone refresh my memory about
                    > the technique involved?
                    >

                    ....

                    > Katie Harper
                    > Ars Brevis Press
                    > Cincinnati, OH
                    > 513-233-9588
                    > http://www.arsbrevispress.com

                    Katie

                    The thread ran in and out from message 775 into the early 800s with a
                    follow up or two.

                    I believe what you are inquiring about was Mark Attwood's recipe for
                    reworking color scans into line work. It works quite well in that
                    regard but I have not had similar results with grayscales of line
                    art. I've found the "unsharp" feature he discussed seems to
                    "splinter" the line work if there is not enough tonal gradation to
                    begin with. I've found a reverse procedure, slight application of
                    blurring filters, works better in that regard.

                    Gerald
                  • Gerald Lange
                    Katie A bit further comment on this: I don t trust in the notion that a high resolution scanner alone will do the job for you, the higher the better, etc., and
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 4, 2002
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                      Katie

                      A bit further comment on this:

                      I don't trust in the notion that a high resolution scanner alone will
                      do the job for you, the higher the better, etc., and that's that.
                      Certainly hi-rez will help but not if you rely solely on it. If you
                      are going to print the image letterpress you have to get it to a
                      state where it will replicate exactingly despite all the additional
                      problems associated with presswork; ink gain, impression.

                      This requires a bit of handwork; thinning the weighty strokes,
                      rebuilding the thin strokes, incorporating ink traps (breaking
                      curves, bracketing tight angles, etc), and when possible, the
                      construction of inking supports and drains. If you do it right and
                      enlarge the piece at all, it will look a bit odd. But the proof is in
                      the printing. I find this to be a very intuitive process and relying on
                      mathematics and exact pixel configuration isn't actually going to get
                      you to where you need to be.

                      Gerald
                    • cmcgarr1957
                      I use Photoshop to scan in images either b/w or grayscale. Then I use Adobe Streamline to turn it into line art. I ve been using Streamline for about 10 years
                      Message 10 of 10 , Nov 1, 2002
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                        I use Photoshop to scan in images either b/w or grayscale. Then I use Adobe
                        Streamline to turn it into line art. I've been using Streamline for about 10 years
                        and it's wonderful. If you need help with correct setting in Streamline please
                        reply. Oh, when scanning in b/w art you must scan in at 1200 resolution to
                        keep the integrity of the line, when it is turned into vector art the line remains
                        smooth.

                        Casey McGarr


                        --- In PPLetterpress@y..., "Gerald Lange" <bieler@w...> wrote:
                        > > A while back, there was a discussion on this list about scanning either
                        > > grayscale or color artwork and using Photoshop tools to turn the image
                        into
                        > > really nice, clean line art. At least I think that was what we read about. I
                        > > can't seem to find those messages now. Can someone refresh my
                        memory about
                        > > the technique involved?
                        > >
                        >
                        > ....
                        >
                        > > Katie Harper
                        > > Ars Brevis Press
                        > > Cincinnati, OH
                        > > 513-233-9588
                        > > http://www.arsbrevispress.com
                        >
                        > Katie
                        >
                        > The thread ran in and out from message 775 into the early 800s with a
                        > follow up or two.
                        >
                        > I believe what you are inquiring about was Mark Attwood's recipe for
                        > reworking color scans into line work. It works quite well in that
                        > regard but I have not had similar results with grayscales of line
                        > art. I've found the "unsharp" feature he discussed seems to
                        > "splinter" the line work if there is not enough tonal gradation to
                        > begin with. I've found a reverse procedure, slight application of
                        > blurring filters, works better in that regard.
                        >
                        > Gerald
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