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Re: [PPLetterpress] Mounting base questions

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  • Bryan Hutcheson
    Harold and James; The base will be milled fairly precisely. The manufacturer said he can mill it to 2/10-of-a-thousand-of-an-inch...which seems pretty precise.
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 2, 2000
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      Harold and James;

      The base will be milled fairly precisely. The manufacturer said he can mill
      it to 2/10-of-a-thousand-of-an-inch...which seems pretty precise. I am
      having some holes tapped into the side which will allow me to screw in
      handles to remove it from the bed. The base manufacturer didn¹t want to use
      aluminum for this first base but is open to using it later. He ordered a
      piece of no2 steel and he is charging me just for materials

      Anyway, given the wrong set of circumstances, and depending on how much
      coffee, I have had ...there can sometimes be quoins and keys flying around
      my shop anyway. Sometimes there are pink elephants with green stripes...and
      once in awhile, I am pretty sure, the ghosts of the past operators of my C&P
      fly in for a visit.

      The 219 (formerly James Shanley¹s) is itchin¹ for some serious action. I
      will most likely use Harold¹s plastic backed plates for the huge halftone I
      am running...You ready for that Harold?...dust isn¹t to critical of an
      issue...the client is looking for a rough and industrial look.


      Thanx for the info,


      Bryan



      €‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹€
      Bryan Hutcheson
      Manifesto LetterPress
      116 Pleasant St. #2245
      Easthampton, MA 01027

      p/f: 413.529.0009
      http://www.manifestopress.com
      €‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹€



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    • Gerald Lange
      Dana I don t know. The catalog I have just lists the various double coated and adhesive transfer tapes and describes their properties. Doesn t list the product
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 31 3:52 AM
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        Dana

        I don't know. The catalog I have just lists the various double coated and
        adhesive transfer tapes and describes their properties. Doesn't list the
        product applications. I got this when I went and visited the 3M center in St
        Paul a few years back.

        They gave me some samples (I wasn't looking for a plate mounting film at the
        time) but I haven't had much use for them as I still have a huge roll of this
        German made adhesive transfer tape I bought from AWT a while back. And that
        serves well for various applications but I have never used it for mounting plates.

        Might be best to call tech support up and ask for a recommendation. The old
        number I have is 612-733-3300. Industrial Specialties Division/3M, 220-7E, 3M
        Center, St Paul, MN 55144.

        Gerald

        > I went to the 3M site and found lots, actually too much. This was the
        > choice I found for tapes. They each seem to have a catalog. Which one
        > where you referring too?
        >
        > Dana
        >
        > This is the list I found.
        >
        > Specialty Tapes & Products
        > Accentrim Products
        > Bumpon Protective Products
        > Cathodic Protection
        > Duct Tapes
        > Flexo Tapes
        > Foam Tapes
        > Masking Products
        > Metal Foil Tapes
        > Polyester Film
        > Polyethelene Tapes
        > Polyurethane Protective Tapes
        > PTFE Film Tapes
        > Repulpable Tapes
        > Sandblast Stencil
        > Tape Dispensing Equipment
        > Vinyl TapesX
      • HaikuBooks@aol.com
        ... Gerald, I went to the 3M site and found lots, actually too much. This was the choice I found for tapes. They each seem to have a catalog. Which one where
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 31 8:24 AM
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          >I'd say you were using the wrong kind of mounting tape. 3M makes a
          >number of industrial/specialty tapes that resist shear forces yet
          >allow for easy release. They have a catalog available.

          Gerald,

          I went to the 3M site and found lots, actually too much. This was the
          choice I found for tapes. They each seem to have a catalog. Which one
          where you referring too?

          Dana

          This is the list I found.

          Specialty Tapes & Products
          Accentrim Products
          Bumpon Protective Products
          Cathodic Protection
          Duct Tapes
          Flexo Tapes
          Foam Tapes
          Masking Products
          Metal Foil Tapes
          Polyester Film
          Polyethelene Tapes
          Polyurethane Protective Tapes
          PTFE Film Tapes
          Repulpable Tapes
          Sandblast Stencil
          Tape Dispensing Equipment
          Vinyl Tapes
        • bielerpr
          ... Dana I went through the catalog looking for specific characteristics: 1) high or excellent shear strength and 2) easy release. These are the tapes I found
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 31 2:23 PM
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            > I went to the 3M site and found lots, actually too much. This was the
            > choice I found for tapes. They each seem to have a catalog. Which one
            > where you referring too?
            >
            > Dana
            >

            Dana

            I went through the catalog looking for specific characteristics: 1)
            high or excellent shear strength and 2) easy release. These are the
            tapes I found (though there may be newer tapes and transfer adhesives
            on the market):

            400 Double-coated tissue tape. 50 oz/in adhesion. .13 mm thick
            404 Double-coated tissue tape. 55 oz/in adhesion. .13 mm thick
            410 Double-coated tissue tape. 50 oz/in adhesion. .11 mm thick
            442 Double-coated film tape. 50 oz/in adhesion. .09 mm thick
            947 Double-coated tape. 50 oz/in adhesion. .11 mm thick

            I don't have the specs on the adhesive Boxcar is selling but
            from my experience with it, I would certainly say it does the job.


            To que in here on Bryon's question:

            I wouldn't recommend these tapes or adhesives with steel-backed plates.
            I assume the steel-backs were developed for magnetic plates? But I'd
            also fear they would not release well without damaging the steel backing
            (bending, kinks etc), but I'm just suspecting this as I've never used
            steel-backs with film or transfer adhesives.

            Gerald
          • Bryan Hutcheson
            I just recently purchased an Anderson & Vreeland Orbital 8 size A3. The building I am in is amazing. In the basement there is a metal company, Mountain Base. I
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 31 2:52 PM
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              I just recently purchased an Anderson & Vreeland Orbital 8 size A3.

              The building I am in is amazing. In the basement there is a metal company,
              Mountain Base. I was down speaking with them yesterday and they are
              manufacturing a solid steel base I can use on My Vandercook 219. Because
              they are willing to make these bases for me at cost I need to find a way to
              use them.

              I have generally been using .057 steel back plates. Since there is no way to
              make it a magnetic base, I will be forced to use film to mount my plates.
              Does the film work well with steel back plates? I will soon be printing a
              long run of record sleeves with a 12.5²x12.5² halftone. Boxcar Press is
              going to make me a set of A2 plates. The base will weigh a fair amount so
              once it goes down on the vandercook, it¹s there for a while.

              I am having 3 bases milled a 3²x5², 10²x13², and a 18²x24²

              Obviously the cost of these bases is significantly less than a Bunting base
              (10²x13² is $123)....But is it going to cause me expensive headaches in the
              long-run?


              B


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mats Broberg
              ... Correct - using an adhesive tape with steel-backed photopolymer plates does bend and kink the plate. I had some problems with that myself when switching
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 1, 2002
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                > I wouldn't recommend these tapes or adhesives with
                > steel-backed plates.
                > I assume the steel-backs were developed for magnetic plates? But I'd
                > also fear they would not release well without damaging the
                > steel backing
                > (bending, kinks etc), but I'm just suspecting this as I've
                > never used steel-backs with film or transfer adhesives.

                Correct - using an adhesive tape with steel-backed photopolymer plates
                does bend and kink the plate. I had some problems with that myself when
                switching from magnetic bases to aluminium bases until Harold Kyle (of
                Boxcar Press) recommended me to switch from steel-backed plates to
                polyester-backed plates at the same time.

                When it comes to adhesive tapes, I have have had successful results with
                Tesa's specialty tape TESAPRINT 53210:

                http://www.tesatape.com/professional/industry/detail2/0,1024,4587,00.htm
                l

                Harold also sells a very good adhesive tape.

                Best regards,
                Mats Broberg
              • Harold Kyle
                ... Thanks Mats. I have spent over two years sampling dozens of different manufacturers products, including those by 3M and Tesa, and am confident that I
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 2, 2002
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                  On 9/1/02 3:39 AM, "Mats Broberg" <mats.broberg@...> wrote:
                  > Harold also sells a very good adhesive tape.

                  Thanks Mats. I have spent over two years sampling dozens of different
                  manufacturers' products, including those by 3M and Tesa, and am confident
                  that I stock the adhesive best suited for flatbed letterpress printing.
                  Beyond its shear and peel strength this product has many other desirable
                  qualities. I sell this adhesive film in rolls (12"x27yd and 18"x27yd) at the
                  actual retail price, which, compared to many of its competitive products, is
                  quite reasonable.

                  Harold



                  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                  Boxcar Press
                  Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
                  640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
                  315-473-0930 ~ phone and fax
                  www.boxcarpress.com
                  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                • Harold Kyle
                  ... It depends on how well the bases are machined and how effective your mounting system is. Although steel shouldn t cause too many headaches in the
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 2, 2002
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                    On 8/31/02 5:52 PM, "Bryan Hutcheson" <bryan@...> wrote:
                    > ....But is it going to cause me expensive headaches in the
                    > long-run?

                    It depends on how well the bases are machined and how effective your
                    mounting system is. Although steel shouldn't cause too many headaches in the
                    machining, its weight (105 lbs on that 18x24 versus 36 lbs in aluminum)
                    might lead to a backache.

                    I'm not sure how you will mount steel-backed plates your steel base. Perhaps
                    you could wire an electro-magnet?! I can see it now... Plate drift? Just
                    turn up the voltage. After printing, the plate releases from the base at the
                    flip of a switch. How convenient! You can scrap metal on the side! Let us
                    know what you find.

                    Harold

                    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                    Boxcar Press
                    Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
                    640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
                    315-473-0930 ~ phone and fax
                    www.boxcarpress.com
                    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                  • thronobulx@aol.com
                    Harold & Brian: Wouldn t turning the steel base into an electro magnet, over time, magnetize the whole press? My mind s eye sees pica rulers, quoin keys, paper
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 2, 2002
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                      Harold & Brian:

                      Wouldn't turning the steel base into an electro magnet, over time, magnetize
                      the whole press? My mind's eye sees pica rulers, quoin keys, paper clips,
                      etc., flying through the shop to attach themselves to Brian's 219. Sort of a
                      Fine Press Movement meets Flubber kind of thing.

                      All best,

                      James Shanley


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • bielerpr
                      ... Harold Actually an insulated electro magnetic base would solve the problem of plate drift. Unfortunately, it doesn t solve the one problem one would think
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 2, 2002
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                        --- In PPLetterpress@y..., Harold Kyle <harold@b...> wrote:
                        > On 8/31/02 5:52 PM, "Bryan Hutcheson" <bryan@m...> wrote:
                        > > ....But is it going to cause me expensive headaches in the
                        > > long-run?
                        >
                        > It depends on how well the bases are machined and how effective your
                        > mounting system is. Although steel shouldn't cause too many headaches in the
                        > machining, its weight (105 lbs on that 18x24 versus 36 lbs in aluminum)
                        > might lead to a backache.
                        >
                        > I'm not sure how you will mount steel-backed plates your steel base. Perhaps
                        > you could wire an electro-magnet?! I can see it now... Plate drift? Just
                        > turn up the voltage. After printing, the plate releases from the base at the
                        > flip of a switch. How convenient! You can scrap metal on the side! Let us
                        > know what you find.
                        >
                        > Harold

                        Harold

                        Actually an insulated electro magnetic base would solve the problem of plate
                        drift. Unfortunately, it doesn't solve the one problem one would think it
                        would solve. Registration. Once the power is turned off there is no way to
                        affix registration guides to the base's surface without resorting to adhesives.
                        You are left with the good ole tape and/or marking technique. Not exactly what
                        one would have hoped for.

                        Gerald
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