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Re: [PPLetterpress] buying old type

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  • Mike Jacobs
    Try reading the advice given by the BPS on their site. http://www.bpsnet.org.uk/type/type.pdf As you see it is a PDF so you will need a suitable reader. Mike,
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 2, 2007
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      Try reading the advice given by the BPS on their site.
      http://www.bpsnet.org.uk/type/type.pdf

      As you see it is a PDF so you will need a suitable reader.

      Mike, Hampshire, England



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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • George Chapman
      And of course as you examine the type with a magnifying glass, be sure you are wearing the most sophisticated mask available to avoid breathing in those
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 2, 2007
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        And of course as you examine the type with a magnifying glass, be sure you
        are wearing the most sophisticated mask available to avoid breathing in
        those particles of lead oxide.

        --
        "I don't send email, I just speak to people . . . and it's amazing what you
        find out when you speak to a lot of people about . . . what's going on in
        anything you do."
        Sanford Weill
        Former chairman and CEO of Citigroup


        George Chapman
        In the heart of the beautiful San Juan Mountains of Colorado at 9,318 feet.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lisa Davidson
        You re joking, right? ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 2, 2007
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          You're joking, right?

          On Oct 2, 2007, at 8:35 AM, George Chapman wrote:

          > And of course as you examine the type with a magnifying glass, be
          > sure you
          > are wearing the most sophisticated mask available to avoid
          > breathing in
          > those particles of lead oxide.
          >
          > --
          > "I don't send email, I just speak to people . . . and it's amazing
          > what you
          > find out when you speak to a lot of people about . . . what's going
          > on in
          > anything you do."
          > Sanford Weill
          > Former chairman and CEO of Citigroup
          >
          > George Chapman
          > In the heart of the beautiful San Juan Mountains of Colorado at
          > 9,318 feet.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gerald Lange
          Lisa Likely; an old-timer s type of joke. But lead oxide is no laughing matter. Don t buy used type that has a white fuzzy appearance, and if you have
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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            Lisa

            Likely; an old-timer's type of joke. But lead oxide is no laughing
            matter. Don't buy used type that has a white fuzzy appearance, and if
            you have something like this, get rid of it. Type case as well. Lead
            poisoning is caused by lead oxide. It's the stuff they put in paint.
            Like the toys that are being recalled. Paint manufacturers in the US
            are limited to the amount they can use, something like 5% with certain
            exceptions, such as parking lot paint or for military use. It is
            actually a durable and preservative element in paint and ink.
            Gutenberg used it in his ink formula and kept that secret to his grave
            (discovered only relatively recently through the use of sophisticated
            analysis techniques), and if you have ever you seen as copy of B42,
            the black is still as black as can be imagined.

            Gerald
            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Lisa Davidson
            <lisaxdavidson@...> wrote:
            >
            > You're joking, right?
            >
            > On Oct 2, 2007, at 8:35 AM, George Chapman wrote:
            >
            > > And of course as you examine the type with a magnifying glass, be
            > > sure you
            > > are wearing the most sophisticated mask available to avoid
            > > breathing in
            > > those particles of lead oxide.
            > >
            > > --
            > > "I don't send email, I just speak to people . . . and it's amazing
            > > what you
            > > find out when you speak to a lot of people about . . . what's going
            > > on in
            > > anything you do."
            > > Sanford Weill
            > > Former chairman and CEO of Citigroup
            > >
            > > George Chapman
            > > In the heart of the beautiful San Juan Mountains of Colorado at
            > > 9,318 feet.
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Graham and Kathy
            You actually have to ingest the stuff for it to do you harm. So long as you don t breathe it in as dust or gas, or eat it (inadvertently by sucking your loaded
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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              You actually have to ingest the stuff for it to do you harm. So long as you
              don't breathe it in as dust or gas, or eat it (inadvertently by sucking your
              loaded fingers or by chewing type), there's no risk. Same as lead loaded
              paint - it's not made for eating, and if kids didn't eat toys, there'd be no
              problem.

              There's no record of any printer dead from lead, and the problem of lead
              related poisoning was recognized many centuries ago.

              Be as careful and attentive as you would be walking across a road - look,
              think, pay attention. No worries!


              Graham Moss
              Incline Press
              36 Bow Street
              Oldham OL1 1SJ England
              http://www.inclinepress.com




              > <lisaxdavidson@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> You're joking, right?
              >>
              >> On Oct 2, 2007, at 8:35 AM, George Chapman wrote:
              >>
              >>> And of course as you examine the type with a magnifying glass, be
              >>> sure you
              >>> are wearing the most sophisticated mask available to avoid
              >>> breathing in
              >>> those particles of lead oxide.
            • Peter Fraterdeus
              Hmm. Great resource, but if it s a PDF for screen reading, I wonder why is it not horizontal ;-) (I asked the same thing about Galley Gab, and now it is!)
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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                Hmm. Great resource, but if it's a PDF for screen reading, I wonder why is it not horizontal ;-)
                (I asked the same thing about Galley Gab, and now it is!)

                Thanks Mike!

                P

                At 12:44 PM +0100 2 10 07, Mike Jacobs wrote:
                >Try reading the advice given by the BPS on their site.
                >http://www.bpsnet.org.uk/type/type.pdf
                >
                >As you see it is a PDF so you will need a suitable reader.
                >

                --
                AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
                {ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!}

                ExquisiteLetterpress http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com

                -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*
                Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
                Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood Type
                Dubuque, Iowa http://www.fraterdeus.com
                Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
                http://flickr.com/photos/pfraterdeus
                http://youtube.com/user/pfraterdeus
              • Gerald Lange
                Sorry for the additional word tracking and what the hell is B42? (without explanation). B42 is the bibliographic notation for the 42-Line Bible, aka the
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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                  Sorry for the additional word tracking and "what the hell is
                  B42?"(without explanation).

                  B42 is the bibliographic notation for the 42-Line Bible, aka the
                  Mazarin Bible, or as commonly known (and somewhat of a misnomer) the
                  Gutenberg Bible. These very early printed works did not carry titles
                  and are known retroactively by bibliographic reference. Most early
                  typefaces as well, though the Aldine period, are coded rather than
                  named (since they never were named).

                  Gerald
                  http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                • Gerald Lange
                  Graham The average life of a printer in the very early years of the 20th century was 23 years old. This has to do with industrial conditions. Don t you think
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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                    Graham

                    The average life of a printer in the very early years of the 20th
                    century was 23 years old. This has to do with industrial conditions.
                    Don't you think this is food for thought? I actually have a very
                    intense collection of books relating to industrial/health practices.
                    If I tell you you are full of shit would you be offended?

                    Gerald


                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Graham and Kathy
                    <kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > You actually have to ingest the stuff for it to do you harm. So long
                    as you
                    > don't breathe it in as dust or gas, or eat it (inadvertently by
                    sucking your
                    > loaded fingers or by chewing type), there's no risk. Same as lead
                    loaded
                    > paint - it's not made for eating, and if kids didn't eat toys,
                    there'd be no
                    > problem.
                    >
                    > There's no record of any printer dead from lead, and the problem of lead
                    > related poisoning was recognized many centuries ago.
                    >
                    > Be as careful and attentive as you would be walking across a road -
                    look,
                    > think, pay attention. No worries!
                    >
                    >
                    > Graham Moss
                    > Incline Press
                    > 36 Bow Street
                    > Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                    > http://www.inclinepress.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > <lisaxdavidson@> wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >> You're joking, right?
                    > >>
                    > >> On Oct 2, 2007, at 8:35 AM, George Chapman wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >>> And of course as you examine the type with a magnifying glass, be
                    > >>> sure you
                    > >>> are wearing the most sophisticated mask available to avoid
                    > >>> breathing in
                    > >>> those particles of lead oxide.
                    >
                  • Peter Fraterdeus
                    ... The AVERAGE? So for every 40 year old printer, there was one that dies as an infant? Seems like they would have died out by now! And, yes, I would be
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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                      At 9:45 AM +0000 3 10 07, Gerald Lange wrote:
                      >Graham
                      >
                      >The average life of a printer in the very early years of the 20th
                      >century was 23 years old. This has to do with industrial conditions.

                      The AVERAGE? So for every 40 year old printer, there was one that dies as an infant?
                      Seems like they would have died out by now!

                      And, yes, I would be offended if it was me.
                      Please cite your sources before slinging shit.
                      :-)

                      P

                      --
                      AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@

                      ExquisiteLetterpress http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com
                    • Gerald Lange
                      Peter I don t sling shit. Gerald ... dies as an infant?
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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                        Peter

                        I don't sling shit.

                        Gerald

                        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > At 9:45 AM +0000 3 10 07, Gerald Lange wrote:
                        > >Graham
                        > >
                        > >The average life of a printer in the very early years of the 20th
                        > >century was 23 years old. This has to do with industrial conditions.
                        >
                        > The AVERAGE? So for every 40 year old printer, there was one that
                        dies as an infant?
                        > Seems like they would have died out by now!
                        >
                        > And, yes, I would be offended if it was me.
                        > Please cite your sources before slinging shit.
                        > :-)
                        >
                        > P
                        >
                        > --
                        > AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
                        >
                        > ExquisiteLetterpress http://www.exquisiteletterpress.com
                        >
                      • Graham and Kathy
                        Nothing offends me unless it s meant to, and then I wonder if being offensive was the sole purpose of the response, and if so, that offends me! To your point:
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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                          Nothing offends me unless it's meant to, and then I wonder if being
                          offensive was the sole purpose of the response, and if so, that offends me!

                          To your point:

                          What was the life expectancy of comparable workers in other industries at
                          the same time? How big was the sample and are the samples restricted to
                          location? Is there a comparison between the country printshop and the city
                          printshop? Is there a separation between print factory workers (rather than
                          printers) and print foundry workers? What were the figures for other foundry
                          workers outwith the print industry? How do these figures relate to the
                          introduction of Linotype and Monotype machines into printshops - are there
                          pre and post Lino and Mono figures for comparison?

                          Of course there's more questions; what gets into the body and how it gets
                          there is the issue, along with stopping it from getting there. You know
                          that, so don't try bullshitting me!

                          Looking forward to seeing you next week.


                          Graham Moss
                          Incline Press
                          36 Bow Street
                          Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                          http://www.inclinepress.com




                          On 3/10/07 10:45, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:

                          > Graham
                          >
                          > The average life of a printer in the very early years of the 20th
                          > century was 23 years old. This has to do with industrial conditions.
                          > Don't you think this is food for thought? I actually have a very
                          > intense collection of books relating to industrial/health practices.
                          > If I tell you you are full of shit would you be offended?
                          >
                          > Gerald
                          >
                        • Scott Rubel
                          23 years in the 20th century? If this is true, I ll bet it s true for just about any industrial job during the same period. All factory and industrial
                          Message 12 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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                            23 years in the 20th century? If this is true, I'll bet it's true for
                            just about any industrial job during the same period. All factory and
                            industrial processes were fraught with chemicals and accidents that took
                            decades to engineer out, and I don't think you can attribute the short
                            life span to only lead oxide, though I'd be full of shit if I were to
                            minimize the dangers of lead oxide.

                            Anyway, I've lived twice the average lifespan while using some fuzzy
                            type, and I can still remember most of that span.
                            I did get rid of the most disgusting type years ago, and as of about
                            four years ago I've hardly used any handset type at all. Sad, but true.
                            Market forces and all. I'm saving the handset for retirement. Sad but true.

                            --Scott Rubel

                            Gerald Lange wrote:

                            >Graham
                            >
                            >The average life of a printer in the very early years of the 20th
                            >century was 23 years old. This has to do with industrial conditions.
                            >Don't you think this is food for thought? I actually have a very
                            >intense collection of books relating to industrial/health practices.
                            >If I tell you you are full of shit would you be offended?
                            >
                            >Gerald
                            >
                            >
                            >--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Graham and Kathy
                            ><kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >>You actually have to ingest the stuff for it to do you harm. So long
                            >>
                            >>
                            >as you
                            >
                            >
                            >>don't breathe it in as dust or gas, or eat it (inadvertently by
                            >>
                            >>
                            >sucking your
                            >
                            >
                            >>loaded fingers or by chewing type), there's no risk. Same as lead
                            >>
                            >>
                            >loaded
                            >
                            >
                            >>paint - it's not made for eating, and if kids didn't eat toys,
                            >>
                            >>
                            >there'd be no
                            >
                            >
                            >>problem.
                            >>
                            >>There's no record of any printer dead from lead, and the problem of lead
                            >>related poisoning was recognized many centuries ago.
                            >>
                            >>Be as careful and attentive as you would be walking across a road -
                            >>
                            >>
                            >look,
                            >
                            >
                            >>think, pay attention. No worries!
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>Graham Moss
                            >>Incline Press
                            >>36 Bow Street
                            >>Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                            >>http://www.inclinepress.com
                            >>
                            >>


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Gerald Lange
                            Graham There is probably a limit to the length of posts; you re asking for a dissertation here. I can say that the only health practice in place that I ve ever
                            Message 13 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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                              Graham

                              There is probably a limit to the length of posts; you're asking for a
                              dissertation here. I can say that the only health practice in place that
                              I've ever read, in regard to this period, was the industry (not
                              governmental) requirement that workers in the metallic bronzing ink
                              industry were required to drink a glass of milk a day. Alas, it served
                              no medical purpose.

                              Your talk subject looks interesting and I look forward to hearing it.
                              The panel that Hrant and I are on looks like the after lunch comic relief!!!

                              Gerald
                              >
                              > What was the life expectancy of comparable workers in other industries at
                              > the same time? How big was the sample and are the samples restricted to
                              > location? Is there a comparison between the country printshop and the city
                              > printshop? Is there a separation between print factory workers (rather than
                              > printers) and print foundry workers? What were the figures for other foundry
                              > workers outwith the print industry? How do these figures relate to the
                              > introduction of Linotype and Monotype machines into printshops - are there
                              > pre and post Lino and Mono figures for comparison?
                              >
                              > Of course there's more questions; what gets into the body and how it gets
                              > there is the issue, along with stopping it from getting there. You know
                              > that, so don't try bullshitting me!
                              >
                              > Looking forward to seeing you next week.
                              >
                              >
                              > Graham Moss
                              > Incline Press
                              > 36 Bow Street
                              > Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                              > http://www.inclinepress.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > On 3/10/07 10:45, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >> Graham
                              >>
                              >> The average life of a printer in the very early years of the 20th
                              >> century was 23 years old. This has to do with industrial conditions.
                              >> Don't you think this is food for thought? I actually have a very
                              >> intense collection of books relating to industrial/health practices.
                              >> If I tell you you are full of shit would you be offended?
                              >>
                              >> Gerald
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • David Goodrich
                              Sometimes one encounters a font of rare or historical type which one desires despite the oxidation. The oxide can be removed by soaking the type overnight in a
                              Message 14 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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                                Sometimes one encounters a font of rare or historical type which one desires
                                despite the oxidation.
                                The oxide can be removed by soaking the type overnight in a bath of vinegar
                                and water. The type should then be given a protective coating of oil, to be
                                wiped off when it is used. Of course it will never print like new type.


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Steve Robison
                                OK...here s another 2 cents worth about lead oxide...(that s two copper cents, not two lead cents) Although I ll have to scare up the sources, I recall that
                                Message 15 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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                                  OK...here's another 2 cents worth about lead
                                  oxide...(that's two copper cents, not two lead cents)

                                  Although I'll have to scare up the sources, I recall
                                  that the printing industry has had very stable
                                  mortality rates as a whole during it's long history --
                                  similar to those of other industrial activities. Hey,
                                  even Ben Franklin, one of the most famous printers of
                                  our early colonial era, lived well into his 80's --
                                  well past the life expectancy of his peers -- and
                                  probably helped to improve those early industry
                                  statistics immensely?! :-)

                                  However, after the era of the hand press, and the
                                  slower early presses, the industry began to change.
                                  The introduction of high speed presses provided
                                  another industry hazard besides lead oxide. The
                                  introduction of high speed presses brought about a new
                                  health problem that went undetected for years. The
                                  presses at high speed began to spin off microscopic
                                  particles of ink into the air during long press runs.
                                  The particles could not be seen with the naked eye, so
                                  went undetected. Those microscopic particles were
                                  then inhaled all day by press operators. Think of
                                  standing next to web fed newspaper, magazine and book
                                  presses spinning all day at high speed. It was the
                                  inhalation of these microscopic ink particles that
                                  gave press operators a much higher mortality rate than
                                  normal due to severe lung exposure from the chemicals
                                  in the ink. Like the black lung disease of coal
                                  miners, this ink was inhaled and affixed itself inside
                                  the lung cavity to do irreparable damage. So in those
                                  years, it was not the exposure to lead oxide that was
                                  the villin, it was the exposure from the chemicals in
                                  the ink particles that reduced life expectancy!

                                  On another note, I've had conversations with Lewis
                                  Mitchell who has been casting type at M&H Type Foundry
                                  in San Francisco contiuously for over 50 years. He is
                                  regularly tested for lead levels, just as a
                                  precaution, given that he works with lead alloy
                                  casters all day, every day for 5 days a week. His
                                  blood lead levels have been at or below the average
                                  for the rest of the population, and that's with over
                                  50 years of intensive work with lead alloy only (he's
                                  never been a high speed press operator inhaling ink).

                                  Now one might say that he works with new shiny molten
                                  type metal, and not the pesky oxidized stuff, and that
                                  certainly might be a factor of his good fortune. But
                                  remember too that he is also working with lead alloy
                                  in all its forms - solid to molten to gaseous. He's
                                  moving pigs of it to the melting pots, he's standing
                                  over it's molten form and breathing its fumes. He's
                                  also surrounded by residual stray spurts of it on the
                                  floor and equipment from the casters, and other stray
                                  particles. That lead alloy will eventually oxidize
                                  unnoticed. And yet while living surrounded with this
                                  for his entire working life, he has apparently gone
                                  without any adverse affects to him.

                                  So I deduce from his experience that Lewis is just
                                  smart and careful and prudent about working with the
                                  stuff, and knows not to EAT it for lunch-- and that's
                                  what it takes to be safe around it!

                                  In contrast there is an 18th and 19th century
                                  typesetter practice that I've heard about that might
                                  have narrowed the gene pool a bit for some, and
                                  perhaps shortened the life of a few printers by a year
                                  or two. The practice was that of licking some of the
                                  the small end pieces of type that would keep falling
                                  over at the ends of some lines making it difficult to
                                  wrap a form with string. The bit of saliva helped the
                                  end type to stick together briefly to a piece of type
                                  next to it so that it wouldn't fall over, and thus
                                  allowed the type setter to tie up the block of type
                                  without further trouble.

                                  This practice closely parallels the ingestion of small
                                  amounts mercury by early hat makers. They used to lick
                                  the needles that passed through the mercury soaked
                                  hats in the process of making them... leading to
                                  mercury poisoning and the insanity of hat makers and
                                  the term "Mad Hatters."

                                  This practice also parallels the practices of the
                                  early fine classic painters who used pure "white lead"
                                  (lead oxide) mixed into their oil paints and licked
                                  their brushes as they painted to get them to
                                  straighten between brush strokes, or to achieve
                                  certain effects. It's said that Gutenberg may have
                                  modeled some of his early inks on pigmented oil paints
                                  and etching inks used in his day. They all probably
                                  contained some amount of lead.

                                  But my guess is that this occasional practice of type
                                  licking might not have been as dangerous as actually
                                  licking moist liquid paint or mercury, or so wide
                                  spread a practice as to lower industry averages any
                                  more than they were already. Remember that most
                                  industrial workers, including printers, were already
                                  using what we now know to be really dangerous
                                  carcinogenic chemicals like Benzene to clean things.
                                  That was standard practice in a lot of industrial
                                  industries, and that probably lowered life
                                  expectancies a lot more that the careful handling of
                                  lead alloy type. I also suspect that the tin involved
                                  in the Lead/Antimony/Tin alloy of type metal helps
                                  seal the lead somewhat and slows the oxidation
                                  process, so that only very old type, or type exposed
                                  to salt air or other oxidants is really oxidized
                                  enough to pose a substantial risk. It may be that if
                                  you lick brand new shiny foundry type that absolutely
                                  nothing bad will happen to you at all...but I'm
                                  certainly not advocating the practice. Just to be
                                  completely safe, I'm going to keep my tongue where it
                                  belongs -- in my mouth! The occasional pesky piece of
                                  type that occasionally falls at the end of a line
                                  during set up is not enough of an incentive for me to
                                  risk ingestion of lead oxide!

                                  Remember too that up until fairly recently, lead was
                                  used in almost all gasoline fuels. The gazillion
                                  pounds of lead distributed on our city streets and in
                                  the air every day through auto exhaust for the past
                                  100 years has probably been a far greater risk
                                  exposure of lead to the general population than the
                                  amount of lead encountered by carefully handling clean
                                  solid type and then washing one's hands. Gasoline
                                  residues from the internal combustion engine have also
                                  spewed a lot of other dangerous chemicals into our
                                  environment as well. I've often thought that this has
                                  been a contributor, if not the major contributor, to
                                  the rapid rise of cancers and other diseases,
                                  including mental illnesses, in the world population
                                  today.

                                  I also wanted to comment on the care and feeding of
                                  type and what to do to keep lead oxide from forming in
                                  the first place -- so that no one will have to deal
                                  with it later. Think of lead oxide as "type rust"
                                  because that's exactly what it is. Rust is the
                                  oxidation of iron. If you were going to prevent iron
                                  or steel from rusting (oxidizing) you would coat it in
                                  something that would keep the oxygen from getting to
                                  it, like oil or varathane or paint. Well, type metal
                                  can be protected the same way, you just can't put
                                  varathane or paint on it because the face of the type
                                  has to be clean to use when you print.

                                  So after each use, leave a mild oil on the type.
                                  Kerosene, when used carefully and properly, is a good
                                  choice. The kerosene residue will keep the type from
                                  oxidizing.

                                  A good practice from the start is to proof a new set
                                  of foundry type as soon as you get it, and then clean
                                  off the ink from the type with a soft rag soaked with
                                  a bit of kerosene. This leaves a thin film of kerosene
                                  and a tiny bit of diluted ink on the type face, and
                                  this coating protects it from oxidation.

                                  I go one step further in processing new foundry type.
                                  I immerse the whole font in a tray of kerosene and let
                                  it soak for awhile until all the sides and bottom of
                                  the type are also fully coated as well. Then I take
                                  the font out of this kerosene bath and let it drain
                                  and dry for a day or two before distributing. This
                                  process will help protect the entire set of new type
                                  from the start.

                                  Of course, when I go to set the type at a later date,
                                  I don't want any residual kerosene on the face of the
                                  type when I use it. So after setting the block of
                                  type, when it's all locked up and in the chase and
                                  just before I print with it, I do one last step. I
                                  take a clean soft lint-free rag with some paint
                                  thinner (mineral spirits) on it and clean the kerosene
                                  off. Then I wipe the top of the type lightly with a
                                  soft dry lint-free rag to soak up any remaining paint
                                  thinner and allow any remaining thinner to evaporate
                                  before I lock the type form in the press.

                                  After printing, I take the chase out and clean the ink
                                  off the top with an old soft toothbrush soaked in
                                  kerosene followed with a rag with a little kerosene on
                                  it. At this point, I don't wipe the remaining kerosene
                                  off with a dry rag...I leave it wet and let it dry on
                                  its own to leave a kerosene residue to protect the
                                  face of the type. This has kept my type in excellent
                                  condition over the years.

                                  Oh, one last thing...The lead in paint is toxic when
                                  it oxidizes too. That usually happens with old peeling
                                  paint. Lead oxide, I'm told (having never ingested it
                                  myself!) is sweet to the taste. That's why it's a
                                  danger to young children who are putting everything
                                  and anything in their mouths. If they find peeling
                                  lead paint chips on the ground that have fallen off a
                                  house (usually found on the outside of a house more
                                  than the inside, but of course it can be found in both
                                  places) then the children eat it--and because it's
                                  sweet, they eat more of it. By the way, that's why
                                  rats and mice will actually eat oxidized lead
                                  type...it's tasty. And some of us, who have gone into
                                  some pretty strange places in search of old rare type
                                  have come upon this phenomenon more than once! And
                                  those old molasses and glycerin rollers were tasty
                                  treats for them as well, but that's another story and
                                  another thread altogether!

                                  OK. I'd better stop now and see what lead induced
                                  weirdness I've stirred up for the rest of the list!

                                  Best wishes,

                                  --Steve

                                  Steve Robison
                                  Belmont, CA (just south of San Francisco)



                                  Steve Robison
                                  robisonsteve@...


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                                • Ph. D.
                                  ... Actually, lead does not turn to its gaseous state at the temperatures used in casting machines, which is about 700-750 degrees for Thompson casters, lower
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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                                    Steve Robison skribis:
                                    >
                                    > Now one might say that he works with new
                                    > shiny molten type metal, and not the pesky
                                    > oxidized stuff, and that certainly might be a
                                    > factor of his good fortune. But remember too
                                    > that he is also working with lead alloy in all its
                                    > forms - solid to molten to gaseous. He's moving
                                    > pigs of it to the melting pots, he's standing
                                    > over it's molten form and breathing its fumes.

                                    Actually, lead does not turn to its gaseous state
                                    at the temperatures used in casting machines,
                                    which is about 700-750 degrees for Thompson
                                    casters, lower for Linotype/Ludlow/etc.

                                    Any fumes he's breathing are from the gas being
                                    burned to heat the pot.

                                    --Ph. D.
                                  • Halton
                                    An additional view . . . Me thinks the word oxide has been mis-applied in much of the back and forth on old hot type metal. My view is that lead oxide is
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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                                      An additional view . . . Me thinks the word "oxide"
                                      has been mis-applied in much of the back and forth on
                                      old hot type metal. My view is that lead oxide is
                                      released only when the metal is heated above 1100
                                      degrees. Type metal used in lino/intertype & ludlow is
                                      reprocessed at no higher than 600 degrees. Monotype at
                                      700 degrees. Temperatures exceeding these temps would
                                      damage the metal amalgam and ruin them for the
                                      intended purpose. The metal used in the composing room
                                      is simply not bioavailable since eating it would have
                                      a deleterious effect on one's teeth. On matters
                                      relating to health and life expectancy of typos . . .
                                      smoking and drinking took a greater toll than lead.
                                      The grey dust commonly found on old hand type is
                                      frequently from dropped cigarette ashes. It was more
                                      prevalent in front portion of the typecases. The ash
                                      has a very corrosive effect on type. My exposure to
                                      handtype began age 11 with a hobby press I got for
                                      Christmas. Now after 50 years with lead type my
                                      current lead level is 30 micrograms/d -- about same as
                                      backgroud level of any person who drove cars with
                                      leaded gas. Union shop rules required the venting of
                                      gas-fired casting machines to remove "effluvia" from
                                      breathing air. The bad rap lead gets is primarily
                                      from paint before 1978 which was lead based. The lead
                                      in paint was ground like sifted flour and mixed in.
                                      The purpose of paint is to protect surfaces from
                                      harmful rays of the sun. Lead actually
                                      did a good job. The bad story came from old paint in
                                      run-down
                                      buildings becoming bioavailable to very young children
                                      (who put stuff in their months) and they ingested old
                                      paint chips/flakes and indeed
                                      suffered from lead poisoning as a result. I have never
                                      heard of a single printer sickened from lead, but
                                      sadly many have died from various smoking related
                                      illnesses.
                                      Joe halton


                                      --- "Ph. D." <phil@...> wrote:

                                      > Steve Robison skribis:
                                      > >
                                      > > Now one might say that he works with new
                                      > > shiny molten type metal, and not the pesky
                                      > > oxidized stuff, and that certainly might be a
                                      > > factor of his good fortune. But remember too
                                      > > that he is also working with lead alloy in all its
                                      >
                                      > > forms - solid to molten to gaseous. He's moving
                                      > > pigs of it to the melting pots, he's standing
                                      > > over it's molten form and breathing its fumes.
                                      >
                                      > Actually, lead does not turn to its gaseous state
                                      > at the temperatures used in casting machines,
                                      > which is about 700-750 degrees for Thompson
                                      > casters, lower for Linotype/Ludlow/etc.
                                      >
                                      > Any fumes he's breathing are from the gas being
                                      > burned to heat the pot.
                                      >
                                      > --Ph. D.
                                      >
                                      >


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                                    • Gerald Lange
                                      Joe The white crusty stuff is, in fact, lead oxide, aka, white lead. It s not lead ground down but it is lead corroded, essentially, with acid. There is an
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Oct 3, 2007
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                                        Joe

                                        The white crusty stuff is, in fact, lead oxide, aka, white lead. It's
                                        not lead ground down but it is lead corroded, essentially, with acid.
                                        There is an interesting tome on the manufacturing process, The Lead
                                        and Zinc Pigments by Clifford Dyer Holley, 1909. The photos of the
                                        industrial process are a bit scarey in regard to the total lack of
                                        health considerations given to the workers. Interesting is that its
                                        manufacture is recorded as well in Theophrastus' History of Stones
                                        (300 BC). Lead is still allowed in paint but the percentage is
                                        restricted except for applications where its inclusion is necessary
                                        for the durability of the paint (I think I mentioned this previously).

                                        Gerald
                                        http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                                        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Halton <haltonprinting@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > An additional view . . . Me thinks the word "oxide"
                                        > has been mis-applied in much of the back and forth on
                                        > old hot type metal. My view is that lead oxide is
                                        > released only when the metal is heated above 1100
                                        > degrees. Type metal used in lino/intertype & ludlow is
                                        > reprocessed at no higher than 600 degrees. Monotype at
                                        > 700 degrees. Temperatures exceeding these temps would
                                        > damage the metal amalgam and ruin them for the
                                        > intended purpose. The metal used in the composing room
                                        > is simply not bioavailable since eating it would have
                                        > a deleterious effect on one's teeth. On matters
                                        > relating to health and life expectancy of typos . . .
                                        > smoking and drinking took a greater toll than lead.
                                        > The grey dust commonly found on old hand type is
                                        > frequently from dropped cigarette ashes. It was more
                                        > prevalent in front portion of the typecases. The ash
                                        > has a very corrosive effect on type. My exposure to
                                        > handtype began age 11 with a hobby press I got for
                                        > Christmas. Now after 50 years with lead type my
                                        > current lead level is 30 micrograms/d -- about same as
                                        > backgroud level of any person who drove cars with
                                        > leaded gas. Union shop rules required the venting of
                                        > gas-fired casting machines to remove "effluvia" from
                                        > breathing air. The bad rap lead gets is primarily
                                        > from paint before 1978 which was lead based. The lead
                                        > in paint was ground like sifted flour and mixed in.
                                        > The purpose of paint is to protect surfaces from
                                        > harmful rays of the sun. Lead actually
                                        > did a good job. The bad story came from old paint in
                                        > run-down
                                        > buildings becoming bioavailable to very young children
                                        > (who put stuff in their months) and they ingested old
                                        > paint chips/flakes and indeed
                                        > suffered from lead poisoning as a result. I have never
                                        > heard of a single printer sickened from lead, but
                                        > sadly many have died from various smoking related
                                        > illnesses.
                                        > Joe halton
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- "Ph. D." <phil@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Steve Robison skribis:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Now one might say that he works with new
                                        > > > shiny molten type metal, and not the pesky
                                        > > > oxidized stuff, and that certainly might be a
                                        > > > factor of his good fortune. But remember too
                                        > > > that he is also working with lead alloy in all its
                                        > >
                                        > > > forms - solid to molten to gaseous. He's moving
                                        > > > pigs of it to the melting pots, he's standing
                                        > > > over it's molten form and breathing its fumes.
                                        > >
                                        > > Actually, lead does not turn to its gaseous state
                                        > > at the temperatures used in casting machines,
                                        > > which is about 700-750 degrees for Thompson
                                        > > casters, lower for Linotype/Ludlow/etc.
                                        > >
                                        > > Any fumes he's breathing are from the gas being
                                        > > burned to heat the pot.
                                        > >
                                        > > --Ph. D.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
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