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Re: [PPLetterpress] [Fwd: Re: confounding question from Lynne Avadenka]

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  • Farida Bee
    Lynne, I learned how to dampen paper by reading Allen and by watching Gerald. I haven t tried the plastic bag method, but I m wondering: When you are working
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 26, 2007
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      Lynne,

      I learned how to dampen paper by reading Allen and by watching Gerald. I haven't tried the plastic bag method, but I'm wondering: When you are working on the first run do you immediately place the printed sheets in a second plastic bag or do you leave them out in the open until you're ready to print the second run? If it is the latter, then I think this is contributing to a significant difference in the dampness of the paper. You say that the inking improves during the second run, so this may be a case of beginning the run with sheets that are too damp.

      Farida


      <Gerald: "I'd assume that if the inking problem is random, that it will occur on one sheet but not the next, or will shift around, that yes, the paper might not be evenly dampened. I did stumble a bit when reading the dampening technique.">

      <Lynne: "My hunch is that the paper is not evenly dampened, because when I print the second run, it seems not to happen. I am printing poems in Hebrew and English on a sheet of paper that is 22 inches long, so I have to print each side separately. By the time I get to the second run, this problem seems to abate. But I can't stand waste and don't like not being in control of this.">



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    • parallel_imp
      ... . begin ... Have you done this successfully before? I ve only printed damp with oilbase ink; it dries by oxidation and is recommended by Allen and
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 26, 2007
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        > > Printing on Magnani Incisioni paper that has been soaked for an
        > > hour, placed in a stack in a plastic bag and weighted overnight
        > >
        > > Using Vanson rubber base black with a small amount of magnesium
        > > carbonate, letting the press run for a good ten minutes before I .
        . > > begin
        > >
        > > Printing on an SP-15
        > >
        Have you done this successfully before? I've only printed damp with
        oilbase ink; it dries by oxidation and is recommended by Allen and
        others; in some cases additional oxidizing drier, like cobalt, may be
        needed. Rubber base dries by absorption and it's hard to imagine it
        would be set, on a damp sheet, by the time you back up the form; I
        have no idea if is cobalt drier is suitable to modify rubberbase ink.
        --Eric Holub, SF
      • Lynnepress@aol.com
        Gerald, Thanks so much for the information. I also have the Lewis Allen book, went back and took a look at his methods. The dampening technique I learned in
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 2, 2007
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          Gerald,

          Thanks so much for the information. I also have the Lewis Allen book, went back and took a look at his methods. The dampening technique I learned in graduate school, works for editioning intaglio prints, thought it would work ok for letterpress. I think the paper was too wet, so I have made some adjustments that seem to have helped.

          regards,
          Lynne







          -----Original Message-----
          From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@...>
          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 3:03 pm
          Subject: [PPLetterpress] [Fwd: Re: confounding question from Lynne Avadenka]

























          Lynne



          I'd assume that if the inking problem is random, that it will occur on

          one sheet but not the next, or will shift around, that yes, the paper

          might not be evenly dampened. I did stumble a bit when reading the

          dampening technique.



          I use the Lewis Allen technique which is to sponge damp every other

          sheet and to keep the heap constantly turning for at least a 24 hour

          period, with weights on the heap the last eight hours or so. I lay a

          heavy sheet of acetate down before dampening and another on top of the

          heap when completed. At this point I turn the heap and cover it with wet

          towels. I turn every six or eight hours to keep the hydration constantly

          reversing itself. I don't use plastic bags but have dampening boxes that

          were constructed after the Allen model.



          This has been fairly tried and true for me and results in sheets where

          the dampening is distributed evenly and there is no cockling. Cockling

          at top and bottom would be a fairly good indicator that the heap is not

          evenly hydrated.



          Gerald

          http://BielerPress.blogspot.com



          I'll try and forward this to PPL to see if there are other solutions.



          lynnepress@... wrote:

          > Hi Gerald,

          >

          > I am writing to you since you often have the answers, but you may

          > share this with the list if you want.

          >

          > I am printing from photopolymer plates and am having a problem I have

          > not experienced previously.

          >

          > Here are all the elements:

          >

          > Printing from adhesive backed plates made by Boxcar on their base

          >

          > Printing on Magnani Incisioni paper that has been soaked for an hour,

          > placed in a stack in a plastic bag and weighted overnight

          >

          > Using Vanson rubber base black with a small amount of magnesium

          > carbonate, letting the press run for a good ten minutes before I begin

          >

          > Printing on an SP-15

          >

          > Checked roller height, the stripe is the width of a dime

          >

          >

          > The problem:

          >

          > Within the same plate, and not on every run, one character will ink

          > heavier than the one right next to it. So one character is black, the

          > other reads grey.

          >

          >

          >

          > My hunch is that the paper is not evenly dampened, because when I

          > print the second run, it seems not to happen.

          > I am printing poems in Hebrew and English on a sheet of paper that is

          > 22 inches long, so I have to print each side separately. By the time I

          > get to the second run, this problem seems to abate. But I can't stand

          > waste and don't like not being in control of this.

          >

          > Any suggestions? Ideas?

          >

          >

          > thank you,

          > Lynne





















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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gerald Lange
          Lynne I mix a bit of William Everson theories along with Lewis Allen. Gives it more of that medieval organism feel. Yeah, I think the tendency is to want to
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 4, 2007
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            Lynne

            I mix a bit of William Everson theories along with Lewis Allen. Gives
            it more of that medieval organism feel.

            Yeah, I think the tendency is to want to make it "damp" where in
            actuality that is more like the practice of less experienced
            letterpress printers when it comes to inking, and thinking that adding
            more ink will solve a problem, when in most cases this is just
            covering up a problem and creating another.

            Apply the same idea to paper dampening, basically, less is more. Take
            away the words, wet, damp, moist. Dampening is really only meant to
            make the paper more supple by invigorating the fibers.

            I came across some technical information a while back that I think
            explains the rationale a bit. I'll try to paraphrase. Technically,
            cellulose is viscoelastic, being made up of polymeric fibers, meaning
            it has the tendency to flow under tension. The tension (stretching) is
            locked in during the drying process of manufacture. Moisture (and
            temperature) act as a plasticiser in this regard, they release the
            built-in tension of the fibers, and allow them to relax. But there is
            only a certain latitude to viscolasticity.

            That sort of makes sense to me.

            In this regard, over saturation is counter productive in this regard.
            Handmade and mouldmade papers respond well to dampening because they
            have less distinct fiber orientation (pronounced grain direction) in
            their manufacture, have stronger and longer fibers, and consequently
            are less prone to shrinkage or distortion (than grain direction
            prominent papers) upon re-drying.

            Gerald
            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Lynnepress@... wrote:
            >
            >
            > Gerald,
            >
            > Thanks so much for the information. I also have the Lewis Allen
            book, went back and took a look at his methods. The dampening
            technique I learned in graduate school, works for editioning intaglio
            prints, thought it would work ok for letterpress. I think the paper
            was too wet, so I have made some adjustments that seem to have helped.
            >
            > regards,
            > Lynne
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@...>
            > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 3:03 pm
            > Subject: [PPLetterpress] [Fwd: Re: confounding question from Lynne
            Avadenka]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Lynne
            >
            >
            >
            > I'd assume that if the inking problem is random, that it will occur on
            >
            > one sheet but not the next, or will shift around, that yes, the paper
            >
            > might not be evenly dampened. I did stumble a bit when reading the
            >
            > dampening technique.
            >
            >
            >
            > I use the Lewis Allen technique which is to sponge damp every other
            >
            > sheet and to keep the heap constantly turning for at least a 24 hour
            >
            > period, with weights on the heap the last eight hours or so. I lay a
            >
            > heavy sheet of acetate down before dampening and another on top of the
            >
            > heap when completed. At this point I turn the heap and cover it with
            wet
            >
            > towels. I turn every six or eight hours to keep the hydration
            constantly
            >
            > reversing itself. I don't use plastic bags but have dampening boxes
            that
            >
            > were constructed after the Allen model.
            >
            >
            >
            > This has been fairly tried and true for me and results in sheets where
            >
            > the dampening is distributed evenly and there is no cockling. Cockling
            >
            > at top and bottom would be a fairly good indicator that the heap is not
            >
            > evenly hydrated.
            >
            >
            >
            > Gerald
            >
            > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
            >
            >
            >
            > I'll try and forward this to PPL to see if there are other solutions.
            >
            >
            >
            > lynnepress@... wrote:
            >
            > > Hi Gerald,
            >
            > >
            >
            > > I am writing to you since you often have the answers, but you may
            >
            > > share this with the list if you want.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > I am printing from photopolymer plates and am having a problem I have
            >
            > > not experienced previously.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Here are all the elements:
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Printing from adhesive backed plates made by Boxcar on their base
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Printing on Magnani Incisioni paper that has been soaked for an hour,
            >
            > > placed in a stack in a plastic bag and weighted overnight
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Using Vanson rubber base black with a small amount of magnesium
            >
            > > carbonate, letting the press run for a good ten minutes before I begin
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Printing on an SP-15
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Checked roller height, the stripe is the width of a dime
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > The problem:
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Within the same plate, and not on every run, one character will ink
            >
            > > heavier than the one right next to it. So one character is black, the
            >
            > > other reads grey.
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > My hunch is that the paper is not evenly dampened, because when I
            >
            > > print the second run, it seems not to happen.
            >
            > > I am printing poems in Hebrew and English on a sheet of paper that is
            >
            > > 22 inches long, so I have to print each side separately. By the
            time I
            >
            > > get to the second run, this problem seems to abate. But I can't stand
            >
            > > waste and don't like not being in control of this.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Any suggestions? Ideas?
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > thank you,
            >
            > > Lynne
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
            Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
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