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[Fwd: Re: confounding question from Lynne Avadenka]

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  • Gerald Lange
    Lynne I d assume that if the inking problem is random, that it will occur on one sheet but not the next, or will shift around, that yes, the paper might not be
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 26, 2007
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      Lynne

      I'd assume that if the inking problem is random, that it will occur on
      one sheet but not the next, or will shift around, that yes, the paper
      might not be evenly dampened. I did stumble a bit when reading the
      dampening technique.

      I use the Lewis Allen technique which is to sponge damp every other
      sheet and to keep the heap constantly turning for at least a 24 hour
      period, with weights on the heap the last eight hours or so. I lay a
      heavy sheet of acetate down before dampening and another on top of the
      heap when completed. At this point I turn the heap and cover it with wet
      towels. I turn every six or eight hours to keep the hydration constantly
      reversing itself. I don't use plastic bags but have dampening boxes that
      were constructed after the Allen model.

      This has been fairly tried and true for me and results in sheets where
      the dampening is distributed evenly and there is no cockling. Cockling
      at top and bottom would be a fairly good indicator that the heap is not
      evenly hydrated.

      Gerald
      http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

      I'll try and forward this to PPL to see if there are other solutions.


      lynnepress@... wrote:
      > Hi Gerald,
      >
      > I am writing to you since you often have the answers, but you may
      > share this with the list if you want.
      >
      > I am printing from photopolymer plates and am having a problem I have
      > not experienced previously.
      >
      > Here are all the elements:
      >
      > Printing from adhesive backed plates made by Boxcar on their base
      >
      > Printing on Magnani Incisioni paper that has been soaked for an hour,
      > placed in a stack in a plastic bag and weighted overnight
      >
      > Using Vanson rubber base black with a small amount of magnesium
      > carbonate, letting the press run for a good ten minutes before I begin
      >
      > Printing on an SP-15
      >
      > Checked roller height, the stripe is the width of a dime
      >
      >
      > The problem:
      >
      > Within the same plate, and not on every run, one character will ink
      > heavier than the one right next to it. So one character is black, the
      > other reads grey.
      >
      >
      >
      > My hunch is that the paper is not evenly dampened, because when I
      > print the second run, it seems not to happen.
      > I am printing poems in Hebrew and English on a sheet of paper that is
      > 22 inches long, so I have to print each side separately. By the time I
      > get to the second run, this problem seems to abate. But I can't stand
      > waste and don't like not being in control of this.
      >
      > Any suggestions? Ideas?
      >
      >
      > thank you,
      > Lynne
    • Farida Bee
      Lynne, I learned how to dampen paper by reading Allen and by watching Gerald. I haven t tried the plastic bag method, but I m wondering: When you are working
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 26, 2007
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        Lynne,

        I learned how to dampen paper by reading Allen and by watching Gerald. I haven't tried the plastic bag method, but I'm wondering: When you are working on the first run do you immediately place the printed sheets in a second plastic bag or do you leave them out in the open until you're ready to print the second run? If it is the latter, then I think this is contributing to a significant difference in the dampness of the paper. You say that the inking improves during the second run, so this may be a case of beginning the run with sheets that are too damp.

        Farida


        <Gerald: "I'd assume that if the inking problem is random, that it will occur on one sheet but not the next, or will shift around, that yes, the paper might not be evenly dampened. I did stumble a bit when reading the dampening technique.">

        <Lynne: "My hunch is that the paper is not evenly dampened, because when I print the second run, it seems not to happen. I am printing poems in Hebrew and English on a sheet of paper that is 22 inches long, so I have to print each side separately. By the time I get to the second run, this problem seems to abate. But I can't stand waste and don't like not being in control of this.">



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      • parallel_imp
        ... . begin ... Have you done this successfully before? I ve only printed damp with oilbase ink; it dries by oxidation and is recommended by Allen and
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 26, 2007
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          > > Printing on Magnani Incisioni paper that has been soaked for an
          > > hour, placed in a stack in a plastic bag and weighted overnight
          > >
          > > Using Vanson rubber base black with a small amount of magnesium
          > > carbonate, letting the press run for a good ten minutes before I .
          . > > begin
          > >
          > > Printing on an SP-15
          > >
          Have you done this successfully before? I've only printed damp with
          oilbase ink; it dries by oxidation and is recommended by Allen and
          others; in some cases additional oxidizing drier, like cobalt, may be
          needed. Rubber base dries by absorption and it's hard to imagine it
          would be set, on a damp sheet, by the time you back up the form; I
          have no idea if is cobalt drier is suitable to modify rubberbase ink.
          --Eric Holub, SF
        • Lynnepress@aol.com
          Gerald, Thanks so much for the information. I also have the Lewis Allen book, went back and took a look at his methods. The dampening technique I learned in
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 2, 2007
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            Gerald,

            Thanks so much for the information. I also have the Lewis Allen book, went back and took a look at his methods. The dampening technique I learned in graduate school, works for editioning intaglio prints, thought it would work ok for letterpress. I think the paper was too wet, so I have made some adjustments that seem to have helped.

            regards,
            Lynne







            -----Original Message-----
            From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@...>
            To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 3:03 pm
            Subject: [PPLetterpress] [Fwd: Re: confounding question from Lynne Avadenka]

























            Lynne



            I'd assume that if the inking problem is random, that it will occur on

            one sheet but not the next, or will shift around, that yes, the paper

            might not be evenly dampened. I did stumble a bit when reading the

            dampening technique.



            I use the Lewis Allen technique which is to sponge damp every other

            sheet and to keep the heap constantly turning for at least a 24 hour

            period, with weights on the heap the last eight hours or so. I lay a

            heavy sheet of acetate down before dampening and another on top of the

            heap when completed. At this point I turn the heap and cover it with wet

            towels. I turn every six or eight hours to keep the hydration constantly

            reversing itself. I don't use plastic bags but have dampening boxes that

            were constructed after the Allen model.



            This has been fairly tried and true for me and results in sheets where

            the dampening is distributed evenly and there is no cockling. Cockling

            at top and bottom would be a fairly good indicator that the heap is not

            evenly hydrated.



            Gerald

            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com



            I'll try and forward this to PPL to see if there are other solutions.



            lynnepress@... wrote:

            > Hi Gerald,

            >

            > I am writing to you since you often have the answers, but you may

            > share this with the list if you want.

            >

            > I am printing from photopolymer plates and am having a problem I have

            > not experienced previously.

            >

            > Here are all the elements:

            >

            > Printing from adhesive backed plates made by Boxcar on their base

            >

            > Printing on Magnani Incisioni paper that has been soaked for an hour,

            > placed in a stack in a plastic bag and weighted overnight

            >

            > Using Vanson rubber base black with a small amount of magnesium

            > carbonate, letting the press run for a good ten minutes before I begin

            >

            > Printing on an SP-15

            >

            > Checked roller height, the stripe is the width of a dime

            >

            >

            > The problem:

            >

            > Within the same plate, and not on every run, one character will ink

            > heavier than the one right next to it. So one character is black, the

            > other reads grey.

            >

            >

            >

            > My hunch is that the paper is not evenly dampened, because when I

            > print the second run, it seems not to happen.

            > I am printing poems in Hebrew and English on a sheet of paper that is

            > 22 inches long, so I have to print each side separately. By the time I

            > get to the second run, this problem seems to abate. But I can't stand

            > waste and don't like not being in control of this.

            >

            > Any suggestions? Ideas?

            >

            >

            > thank you,

            > Lynne





















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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Gerald Lange
            Lynne I mix a bit of William Everson theories along with Lewis Allen. Gives it more of that medieval organism feel. Yeah, I think the tendency is to want to
            Message 5 of 5 , Oct 4, 2007
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              Lynne

              I mix a bit of William Everson theories along with Lewis Allen. Gives
              it more of that medieval organism feel.

              Yeah, I think the tendency is to want to make it "damp" where in
              actuality that is more like the practice of less experienced
              letterpress printers when it comes to inking, and thinking that adding
              more ink will solve a problem, when in most cases this is just
              covering up a problem and creating another.

              Apply the same idea to paper dampening, basically, less is more. Take
              away the words, wet, damp, moist. Dampening is really only meant to
              make the paper more supple by invigorating the fibers.

              I came across some technical information a while back that I think
              explains the rationale a bit. I'll try to paraphrase. Technically,
              cellulose is viscoelastic, being made up of polymeric fibers, meaning
              it has the tendency to flow under tension. The tension (stretching) is
              locked in during the drying process of manufacture. Moisture (and
              temperature) act as a plasticiser in this regard, they release the
              built-in tension of the fibers, and allow them to relax. But there is
              only a certain latitude to viscolasticity.

              That sort of makes sense to me.

              In this regard, over saturation is counter productive in this regard.
              Handmade and mouldmade papers respond well to dampening because they
              have less distinct fiber orientation (pronounced grain direction) in
              their manufacture, have stronger and longer fibers, and consequently
              are less prone to shrinkage or distortion (than grain direction
              prominent papers) upon re-drying.

              Gerald
              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Lynnepress@... wrote:
              >
              >
              > Gerald,
              >
              > Thanks so much for the information. I also have the Lewis Allen
              book, went back and took a look at his methods. The dampening
              technique I learned in graduate school, works for editioning intaglio
              prints, thought it would work ok for letterpress. I think the paper
              was too wet, so I have made some adjustments that seem to have helped.
              >
              > regards,
              > Lynne
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@...>
              > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 3:03 pm
              > Subject: [PPLetterpress] [Fwd: Re: confounding question from Lynne
              Avadenka]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Lynne
              >
              >
              >
              > I'd assume that if the inking problem is random, that it will occur on
              >
              > one sheet but not the next, or will shift around, that yes, the paper
              >
              > might not be evenly dampened. I did stumble a bit when reading the
              >
              > dampening technique.
              >
              >
              >
              > I use the Lewis Allen technique which is to sponge damp every other
              >
              > sheet and to keep the heap constantly turning for at least a 24 hour
              >
              > period, with weights on the heap the last eight hours or so. I lay a
              >
              > heavy sheet of acetate down before dampening and another on top of the
              >
              > heap when completed. At this point I turn the heap and cover it with
              wet
              >
              > towels. I turn every six or eight hours to keep the hydration
              constantly
              >
              > reversing itself. I don't use plastic bags but have dampening boxes
              that
              >
              > were constructed after the Allen model.
              >
              >
              >
              > This has been fairly tried and true for me and results in sheets where
              >
              > the dampening is distributed evenly and there is no cockling. Cockling
              >
              > at top and bottom would be a fairly good indicator that the heap is not
              >
              > evenly hydrated.
              >
              >
              >
              > Gerald
              >
              > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
              >
              >
              >
              > I'll try and forward this to PPL to see if there are other solutions.
              >
              >
              >
              > lynnepress@... wrote:
              >
              > > Hi Gerald,
              >
              > >
              >
              > > I am writing to you since you often have the answers, but you may
              >
              > > share this with the list if you want.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > I am printing from photopolymer plates and am having a problem I have
              >
              > > not experienced previously.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Here are all the elements:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Printing from adhesive backed plates made by Boxcar on their base
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Printing on Magnani Incisioni paper that has been soaked for an hour,
              >
              > > placed in a stack in a plastic bag and weighted overnight
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Using Vanson rubber base black with a small amount of magnesium
              >
              > > carbonate, letting the press run for a good ten minutes before I begin
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Printing on an SP-15
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Checked roller height, the stripe is the width of a dime
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > The problem:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Within the same plate, and not on every run, one character will ink
              >
              > > heavier than the one right next to it. So one character is black, the
              >
              > > other reads grey.
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > My hunch is that the paper is not evenly dampened, because when I
              >
              > > print the second run, it seems not to happen.
              >
              > > I am printing poems in Hebrew and English on a sheet of paper that is
              >
              > > 22 inches long, so I have to print each side separately. By the
              time I
              >
              > > get to the second run, this problem seems to abate. But I can't stand
              >
              > > waste and don't like not being in control of this.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Any suggestions? Ideas?
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > thank you,
              >
              > > Lynne
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
              Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
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