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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Calligraphy and deep impression

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  • Peter Fraterdeus
    Hi Gerald ... Yes, it s really fascinating to see the wax punches used by the Romans*, and consider how matters might have turned out if some enterprising
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 3, 2007
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      Hi Gerald

      At 4:17 PM -0700 3 09 07, Gerald Lange wrote:
      >...Even the medallions that protected Marco Polo and
      >other westerns in their journeys, the paiza, issued by the Khan, appear
      >to have been cast from punches. It is uncertain if any of the Asian
      >paper materials that had been printed from cast type made their way to
      >Europe.


      Yes, it's really fascinating to see the wax "punches" used by the Romans*, and consider how matters might have turned out if some enterprising Roman had thought to use multiples of these things to produce movable type -- rudimentary as it may have been -- 1500 years before Gutenberg

      *I recall the example in Fred Goudy's "The Alphabet and Elements of Lettering"

      However, the 'books' I was thinking of were the woodcut books, full pages from each block, regarding Mr. David's attitude about impressions from calligraphic originals, regardless of the form, scroll or codex.
      As far as the codex, I'm not sure that it was exclusive to the West *, in any case, as there are plenty of examples of Oriental scrolls bound as 'accordion' books, or in fact, of accordions punched through and sewn. (Of which, I'm sure sure you are aware!)
      However, I don't recall the time line of when these are known. Perhaps it's after contact with the West...

      *unless the technical definition precludes accordion books in favor of collections of signatures...

      Not my area of expertise, but I'm interested ;-)

      Ciao!

      P


      >

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    • Gerald Lange
      Hi I m not certain about the timeline in the evolution of the book form in various parts of the world, but I suppose I could walk over to my library; but it is
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 3, 2007
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        Hi

        I'm not certain about the timeline in the evolution of the book form
        in various parts of the world, but I suppose I could walk over to my
        library; but it is too hot to make the effort.

        It's quite possible that some enterprising young Roman did come up
        with a way to use multiple punches for such a purpose. The way it
        worked out successfully though, is all that matters. 14th century
        Europe, not the Roman Empire, not Asia, was prime for the development.

        Printing preses were in existence—all that was required was to work
        out the complexities of the hose. Punchcutting and casting technology
        had been perfected. Paper had been used for writing, and for printing,
        for some time. The casting properties of lead were clearly understood.
        The use of ink for painting on metal was known. A well developed
        knowledge of metallurgy and mechanics, an effective mercantile
        structure, unrestricted trade channels, standardization of mechanical
        parts and tools that could be used without specific application,
        etc.—all in place.

        All was there, it seems, except for the adjustable casting mould, the
        tool that would allow letters to be spaced as if they were hand written.

        Gerald
        http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Gerald
        >
        > At 4:17 PM -0700 3 09 07, Gerald Lange wrote:
        > >...Even the medallions that protected Marco Polo and
        > >other westerns in their journeys, the paiza, issued by the Khan, appear
        > >to have been cast from punches. It is uncertain if any of the Asian
        > >paper materials that had been printed from cast type made their way to
        > >Europe.
        >
        >
        > Yes, it's really fascinating to see the wax "punches" used by the
        Romans*, and consider how matters might have turned out if some
        enterprising Roman had thought to use multiples of these things to
        produce movable type -- rudimentary as it may have been -- 1500 years
        before Gutenberg
        >
        > *I recall the example in Fred Goudy's "The Alphabet and Elements of
        Lettering"
        >
        > However, the 'books' I was thinking of were the woodcut books, full
        pages from each block, regarding Mr. David's attitude about
        impressions from calligraphic originals, regardless of the form,
        scroll or codex.
        > As far as the codex, I'm not sure that it was exclusive to the West
        *, in any case, as there are plenty of examples of Oriental scrolls
        bound as 'accordion' books, or in fact, of accordions punched through
        and sewn. (Of which, I'm sure sure you are aware!)
        > However, I don't recall the time line of when these are known.
        Perhaps it's after contact with the West...
        >
        > *unless the technical definition precludes accordion books in favor
        of collections of signatures...
        >
        > Not my area of expertise, but I'm interested ;-)
        >
        > Ciao!
        >
        > P
        >
        >
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