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Deep relief pp; Cutting a larger base....

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  • Peter Fraterdeus
    Is the primary reason for the .060 depth plate the gauge pins on the platen press? Boxcar says something about not inking the base, but that would only be a
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 27, 2007
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      Is the primary reason for the .060 depth plate the gauge pins on the platen press?
      Boxcar says something about not inking the base, but that would only be a problem if the rollers are not well set anyway...

      Just wondering if I can get away with one set of bases and inventory for both platen and flatbed presses?

      Also, as I'm likely to want to combine pp with handset foundry or the odd copper-cut from the 1920s, are there any suggestions on how one might have a 13x19 base cut? If I read Harold's site correctly Boxcar will cut the larger bases down in sections, no?

      I'm thinking of a golden division which would produce four smaller rectangles from this larger piece.

      A cut at 8 inches wide and 11.25 tall would be golden ratios to 13x19
      but then, maybe going 9x12 makes sense, with the remaining pieces a bit smaller, but perhaps a more practical 'set'...

      I presume others have done this before? Has it worked well? Do the segments set well together in the chase?

      P



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    • Jessica Spring
      Peter-- I use the regular relief base and it works just fine in my C&P and Vandercooks. Boxcar will cut the base at your request (not sure if there s a limit
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 27, 2007
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        Peter--
        I use the regular relief base and it works just fine in my C&P and
        Vandercooks. Boxcar will cut the base at your request (not sure if there's a
        limit to the number of cuts) and it aligns perfectly. I've also used a very
        small 2x4 Bunting base I have, attached exposed blank metal-backed plate
        material, then attached small adhesive-backed plates to that for use in the
        C&P. The very small size is handy.
        --Jessica

        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
        Jessica Spring
        SPRINGTIDE PRESS
        http://www.springtidepress.com
        253.627.8629
        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


        > From: Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...>
        > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 21:45:23 -0500
        > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Deep relief pp; Cutting a larger base....
        >
        > Is the primary reason for the .060 depth plate the gauge pins on the platen
        > press?
        > Boxcar says something about not inking the base, but that would only be a
        > problem if the rollers are not well set anyway...
        >
        > Just wondering if I can get away with one set of bases and inventory for both
        > platen and flatbed presses?
        >
        > Also, as I'm likely to want to combine pp with handset foundry or the odd
        > copper-cut from the 1920s, are there any suggestions on how one might have a
        > 13x19 base cut? If I read Harold's site correctly Boxcar will cut the larger
        > bases down in sections, no?
        >
        > I'm thinking of a golden division which would produce four smaller rectangles
        > from this larger piece.
        >
        > A cut at 8 inches wide and 11.25 tall would be golden ratios to 13x19
        > but then, maybe going 9x12 makes sense, with the remaining pieces a bit
        > smaller, but perhaps a more practical 'set'...
        >
        > I presume others have done this before? Has it worked well? Do the segments
        > set well together in the chase?
        >
        > P
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
        >> ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!<
        >
        > Semiotx Inc http://typeandmeaning.com Sign up for "Type and Meaning" !
        > Creative/IT facilitation "Free Range IT" Plone CMS Typography
        > -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:
        > -*-:-*-:-*-:-*
        > Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
        > Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood Type
        > Dubuque, Iowa http://www.fraterdeus.com
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        > http://flickr.com/photos/pfraterdeus
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Peter Fraterdeus
        Hi Jessica! Wasn t that your article in the Galley Gab about the Guerilla Wheatpaste Artists of Tacoma? Excellent! And inspiring ;-) As is your lovely design
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 27, 2007
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          Hi Jessica!

          Wasn't that your article in the Galley Gab about the Guerilla Wheatpaste Artists of Tacoma?
          Excellent! And inspiring ;-) As is your lovely design and printing oeuvre, all together!

          Thanks for the confirmation on the Boxcar questions.
          I'm just a week or so from my first use of the "new tech" for letterpress, got a big poster job to do for our "warehouse district" (my press lives there now) in Dubuque. Need to order a base big enough for the 8.5x22 sheet that the designers chose. (Big size, not real big numbers, but two-colors (same plate work and turn) about 250x, I'll be plenty tired of rolling the big 219 after it's done...)

          I'm also thinking about getting some maple blocks made into base height (I have a fine woodworker nearby) for the small pieces that one may need. In fact, as I've got a nice collection of wood type, the larger sizes almost always lacking that last N or S or something to finish the word. I may just get a bunch of maple made up in, say 12 line, 18 and 24 line by a couple of feet, and be able to produce replacement letters for these good old 'fonts' with some PP snips and a good chop saw.

          Thanks again!

          Ciao
          P

          At 8:11 PM -0700 27 07 07, Jessica Spring wrote:
          >Peter--
          >I use the regular relief base and it works just fine in my C&P and
          >Vandercooks. Boxcar will cut the base at your request (not sure if there's a
          >limit to the number of cuts) and it aligns perfectly. I've also used a very
          >small 2x4 Bunting base I have, attached exposed blank metal-backed plate
          >material, then attached small adhesive-backed plates to that for use in the
          >C&P. The very small size is handy.
          >--Jessica
          ...

          --
          AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
          >ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!<

          Semiotx Inc http://typeandmeaning.com Sign up for "Type and Meaning" !
          Creative/IT facilitation "Free Range IT" Plone CMS Typography
          -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*
          Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
          Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood Type
          Dubuque, Iowa http://www.fraterdeus.com
          Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
          http://flickr.com/photos/pfraterdeus
        • nagraph1
          The deep relief plate is, at .060, only .003 thicker than the standard steel backed plate used by those who use magnetic bases. The shallower relief of the
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 28, 2007
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            The "deep relief" plate is, at .060, only .003 thicker than the
            standard steel backed plate used by those who use magnetic bases.
            The shallower relief of the standard film backed polymer plate can
            allow for inking of the blank area of the plate and base far easier
            that a standard height steel backed plate.

            But either plate mounted on its appropriate base will not clear any
            of the manufactured gauge pins. One size fits all bases are not a
            good idea and a bad recommendation particularly for hand fed platens.

            I have run metal type at the same time as a Bunting magnetic base--
            it's just another lock up element if the plate position and the type
            work out.

            Fritz

            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...>
            wrote:
            >
            >Is the primary reason for the .060 depth plate the gauge pins on
            the platen press?
            > Boxcar says something about not inking the base, but that would
            only be a problem if the rollers are not well set anyway...
            >
            > Just wondering if I can get away with one set of bases and
            inventory for both platen and flatbed presses?
            >
            > Also, as I'm likely to want to combine pp with handset foundry or
            the odd copper-cut from the 1920s, are there any suggestions on how
            one might have a 13x19 base cut? If I read Harold's site correctly
            Boxcar will cut the larger bases down in sections, no?
            >
            > I'm thinking of a golden division which would produce four smaller
            rectangles from this larger piece.
            >
            > A cut at 8 inches wide and 11.25 tall would be golden ratios to
            13x19
            > but then, maybe going 9x12 makes sense, with the remaining pieces
            a bit smaller, but perhaps a more practical 'set'...
            >
            > I presume others have done this before? Has it worked well? Do the
            segments set well together in the chase?
            >
            > P
          • Gerald Lange
            There are no standard plate thicknesses per se. There are certain ranges that are formulated for letterpress use: .037 to .039 [thin plates] and .057 to .060
            Message 5 of 20 , Jul 28, 2007
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              There are no "standard" plate thicknesses per se. There are certain
              ranges that are formulated for letterpress use: .037 to .039 [thin
              plates] and .057 to .060 [thick plates]. The thickness of a plate varies
              by manufacturer offering. This does not necessarily have anything to do
              with whether the plate is polyester- or steel-backed.

              The main culprit of a press that might require a thicker plate, to
              prevent inking on the floor of the plate, is the C&P and similar types
              of platens where roller height is less certain and variable. I sell .060
              steel-backs to folks using C&Ps, et al, but that is pretty much my only
              call for them. I don't sell the .060 polyester-backs because 1) my rep
              suggested they were not suitable for general letterpress use, and 2)
              there are apparently a lot of folks having problems with them (re: the
              Briar Press Discussion List).

              Most of my processing for Vandercook printing is for .038s, whether
              steel-backed or polyester-backed. Relief depths of .026 to .029
              respectively. The relief depth of the .060 steel-back is .048. This is
              hardly significant enough to claim "deep impression" rights, and
              literally corresponds proportionately to plate thickness.

              There are two things going for thin plates over thick plates. They cost
              less to both processor and consumer and they have better image fidelity
              (the relief structure is more stable—there is a technical reason
              letterpress formulated plates do not exceed the size and relief
              proportions offered).

              Raw polyester-backed plates (at least, the Toyobo brand) are actually
              priced quite a bit higher than steel-backs. Interestingly, and to his
              credit, Harold (Boxcar Press) absorbs this price difference.

              Gerald
              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


              nagraph1 wrote:
              > The "deep relief" plate is, at .060, only .003 thicker than the
              > standard steel backed plate used by those who use magnetic bases.
              > The shallower relief of the standard film backed polymer plate can
              > allow for inking of the blank area of the plate and base far easier
              > that a standard height steel backed plate.
              >
              > But either plate mounted on its appropriate base will not clear any
              > of the manufactured gauge pins. One size fits all bases are not a
              > good idea and a bad recommendation particularly for hand fed platens.
              >
              > I have run metal type at the same time as a Bunting magnetic base--
              > it's just another lock up element if the plate position and the type
              > work out.
              >
              > Fritz
              >
              > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...>
              > wrote:
              >
              >> Is the primary reason for the .060 depth plate the gauge pins on
              >>
              > the platen press?
              >
              >> Boxcar says something about not inking the base, but that would
              >>
              > only be a problem if the rollers are not well set anyway...
              >
              >> Just wondering if I can get away with one set of bases and
              >>
              > inventory for both platen and flatbed presses?
              >
            • parallel_imp
              ... platen press? ... be a problem if the rollers are not well set anyway... ... Peter, even with thicker plates, you need to position ordinary gauge pins
              Message 6 of 20 , Jul 30, 2007
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                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
                >
                > Is the primary reason for the .060 depth plate the gauge pins on the
                platen press?
                > Boxcar says something about not inking the base, but that would only
                be a problem if the rollers are not well set anyway...
                >
                Peter, even with thicker plates, you need to position ordinary gauge
                pins outside the base, though some pins like the Megill's "flexible"
                and "fleur-de-lis" might work, if they could still be had. But neither
                is too secure regarding position and if have to use sealing wax,
                you've added to the working thickness. (See "gauge pins" which I have
                added to the photos section; these are the two pins in upper right
                corner.)

                Getting rollers set perfectly for photopolymer on a C&P can be a
                challenge. On the big list some people are still recommending that
                trucks should be smaller than rollers, but that guarantees that the
                beard of type or plate will ink, and even the shoulder of thinner
                plates. Using expansion trucks to compensate for low tracks will make
                the rollers wipe the plate, and in cases of extreme wear, the rubbers
                will expand excentrically, resulting in uneven inking.


                > Just wondering if I can get away with one set of bases and inventory
                for both platen and flatbed presses?
                > I'm thinking of a golden division which would produce four smaller
                rectangles from this larger piece.
                > A cut at 8 inches wide and 11.25 tall would be golden ratios to 13x19
                > but then, maybe going 9x12 makes sense, with the remaining pieces a
                bit smaller, but perhaps a more practical 'set'...
                >
                9x12 is a good size for the Vandercook (allowing for 8.5 x 11 with
                bleed or registration marks) but for the C&P you definitely need
                smaller bases. Consider the following:
                I just looked at the BriarPress discussions for the first time, and
                two threads were quite disturbing. First, a thread about what gauge
                pins to use with Boxcar base: the person had bought a 9x12 base to use
                in a 10x15 C&P and was smashing multiple gauges every press run. Paper
                gauges were the common recommendation, and photo-mounts also (and
                running the base upper right and locating all jobs lower left instead
                of centered for an even impression).
                The second thread came from the same person, whose partner had
                smashed three fingers feeding the C&P, losing the tips. I sympathise,
                but I wonder, was this because they feeding a small sheet to the low
                corner, to paper gauges or photomounts, due to the large base?

                Taking these two threads together is a good argument against one large
                base for all jobs on a platen. Arguably, feeding to homemade gauges
                will be less smooth than to metal gauges, and the idea of using
                photo-mounts on a powered press, well, that's scary.

                A large base also limits the positioning of the grippers, use of
                fingers or string, etc. At least the "deep relief" give a few
                thousands more working clearance.

                --Eric Holub, SF
              • Peter Fraterdeus
                Hi Eric Many thanks for your notes, and always perceptive and illuminating comments. I ve done plenty of work in the past with mag cuts on the C&P, but these
                Message 7 of 20 , Jul 30, 2007
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                  Hi Eric

                  Many thanks for your notes, and always perceptive and illuminating comments.

                  I've done plenty of work in the past with mag cuts on the C&P, but these of course are always much smaller than the platen and there's plenty of room for the pins and whatnot.
                  Seems like the real truth of the matter is that PP wasn't designed for platen presses ;-)

                  Indeed it also seems that an assortment of smaller bases will be crucial.
                  >...
                  >Getting rollers set perfectly for photopolymer on a C&P can be a
                  >challenge.

                  (Even for 'real' type!)

                  > On the big list some people are still recommending that
                  >trucks should be smaller than rollers, but that guarantees that the
                  >beard of type or plate will ink,

                  Bad printing there, in my book.

                  > and even the shoulder of thinner
                  >plates. Using expansion trucks to compensate for low tracks will make
                  >the rollers wipe the plate, and in cases of extreme wear, the rubbers
                  >will expand excentrically, resulting in uneven inking.
                  >
                  >... The second thread came from the same person, whose partner had
                  >smashed three fingers feeding the C&P, losing the tips. I sympathise,
                  >but I wonder, was this because they feeding a small sheet to the low
                  >corner, to paper gauges or photomounts, due to the large base?

                  Ugh... this is not good at all.
                  One big reason I'm extremely hesitant to allow anyone to use these presses without my lawyer present ;-)

                  Another reason also to refit the original treadles on the press, although one could still do plenty of damage, at least it's not likely to be going as fast...

                  Speed is overrated, and well, that's what the Windmill is for!

                  Ciao
                  P

                  --
                  AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
                  >ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!<

                  Semiotx Inc http://typeandmeaning.com Sign up for "Type and Meaning" !
                  Creative/IT facilitation "Free Range IT" Plone CMS Typography
                  -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*
                  Peter Fraterdeus http://www.alphabets.com : Sign up for "MiceType"!
                  Galena, Illinois Design Philosophy Fonts Lettering Letterpress Wood Type
                  Dubuque, Iowa http://www.fraterdeus.com
                  Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
                  http://flickr.com/photos/pfraterdeus
                • Gerald Lange
                  Eric and Peter I m not sure about the idea of a number of small bases. I only submit this because Bunting Magnetics basically made their bases as chase
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jul 30, 2007
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                    Eric and Peter

                    I'm not sure about the idea of a number of small bases. I only submit
                    this because Bunting Magnetics basically made their bases as chase
                    specific per press/size as apparently normative for industrial
                    practice. They limited the size of the bases for technical reasons but
                    otherwise seemingly subscribed to the idea of filling the chase.

                    To a great extent, and that is vividly apparent on the Briar Press
                    Discussion list, newcomers have no idea how to print on these (platen)
                    presses.

                    One would hope that the first thing one would do before buying such a
                    press would be to buy the various reference materials that are readily
                    available, _General Printing_, Polk, etc. And study them.

                    Gerald
                    http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                    >
                    > Hi Eric
                    >
                    > Many thanks for your notes, and always perceptive and illuminating
                    comments.
                    >
                    > I've done plenty of work in the past with mag cuts on the C&P, but
                    these of course are always much smaller than the platen and there's
                    plenty of room for the pins and whatnot.
                    > Seems like the real truth of the matter is that PP wasn't designed
                    for platen presses ;-)
                    >
                    > Indeed it also seems that an assortment of smaller bases will be
                    crucial.
                    > >...
                    > >Getting rollers set perfectly for photopolymer on a C&P can be a
                    > >challenge.
                    >
                    > (Even for 'real' type!)
                    >
                    > > On the big list some people are still recommending that
                    > >trucks should be smaller than rollers, but that guarantees that the
                    > >beard of type or plate will ink,
                    >
                    > Bad printing there, in my book.
                    >
                    > > and even the shoulder of thinner
                    > >plates. Using expansion trucks to compensate for low tracks will make
                    > >the rollers wipe the plate, and in cases of extreme wear, the rubbers
                    > >will expand excentrically, resulting in uneven inking.
                    > >
                    > >... The second thread came from the same person, whose partner had
                    > >smashed three fingers feeding the C&P, losing the tips. I sympathise,
                    > >but I wonder, was this because they feeding a small sheet to the low
                    > >corner, to paper gauges or photomounts, due to the large base?
                    >
                    > Ugh... this is not good at all.
                    > One big reason I'm extremely hesitant to allow anyone to use these
                    presses without my lawyer present ;-)
                    >
                    > Another reason also to refit the original treadles on the press,
                    although one could still do plenty of damage, at least it's not likely
                    to be going as fast...
                    >
                    > Speed is overrated, and well, that's what the Windmill is for!
                    >
                    > Ciao
                    > P
                  • nagraph1
                    Using a large base on cylinder presses, like Vandercooks, Heidelbergs, and Miehle Verticals is a different situation than platens, and especially hand fed
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jul 31, 2007
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                      Using a large base on cylinder presses, like Vandercooks,
                      Heidelbergs, and Miehle Verticals is a different situation than
                      platens, and especially hand fed platens, like the common C&P.
                      Bunting, in their literature as far back as my file goes, 1985,
                      states "By arranging several standard sizes of magnetic bases in a
                      chase and using conventional quoins and a minimum amount of
                      furniture (wood or metal), existing letterpress equipment can
                      convert to total photomechanical printing plate systems with no
                      planing for levelness . . . no time consuming distribution of
                      foundry type . . . no filing wood blocked engravings." (from 1985
                      advertising sheet).

                      As has been mentioned, a large base that takes up most of the chase
                      in a platen can lead to difficult feeding, lack of use of grippers,
                      gauge pin problems, etc., that are not necessarily problems on a
                      cylinder press, hence the rationale of having at least one
                      additional smaller base that is workable for small cards, envelopes,
                      etc.

                      Bunting published a sheet(#6474 dated February 1984) showing 18
                      suggested bases and base combinations for presses ranging from the 6
                      3/8'x6 3/4' New Era chase to the Heidelberg SBD/SBDZ press with a
                      chase measurement of 25 1/4"x33 1/2". On this last press, they show
                      10 bases that include 2 MB 712, 6 MB 612, and 2 MB 712 to get a base
                      area of 24 1/4'x32 5/8". For the 8x12 C&P, their recommendation was
                      for one MB 711 at 11.25"x7.25", and that leaves room for a quoin--
                      pretty tight for an 8x12. All of their diagrams are for full chase
                      filling with just enough room for a quoin or two, and some reglets.
                      This suggestion to fill a chase to its maximum may be ok for
                      cylinder presses, but since they included the 8x12 C&P that is
                      strictly hand fed, I question their general knowledge of the hand
                      fed platens, both as to feeding and impressional ability of the
                      press. From the Heidelberg 10x15 platen (chase 9 7/8x13 3/8") and on
                      up, they show a minimum of 2 bases per chase. The Miehle V-50 shows
                      3 MB 612, the KSB Heidelberg with 4 MB 710, and the KSBA Heidelberg
                      with 3 MB 709 and 2 MB 710. And not a mention of Vandercooks in any
                      of their literature that I have.

                      Fritz

                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Eric and Peter
                      >
                      > I'm not sure about the idea of a number of small bases. I only
                      submit
                      > this because Bunting Magnetics basically made their bases as chase
                      > specific per press/size as apparently normative for industrial
                      > practice. They limited the size of the bases for technical reasons
                      but
                      > otherwise seemingly subscribed to the idea of filling the chase.
                      >
                      > To a great extent, and that is vividly apparent on the Briar Press
                      > Discussion list, newcomers have no idea how to print on these
                      (platen)
                      > presses.
                      >
                      > One would hope that the first thing one would do before buying
                      such a
                      > press would be to buy the various reference materials that are
                      readily
                      > available, _General Printing_, Polk, etc. And study them.
                      >
                      > Gerald
                      > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                      >
                      >
                    • Benjamin Levitz
                      Windmills often need a smaller base size too. If you fill the chase on a windmill, you can not use the metal fingers to hold down the tail whip on an unruly
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jul 31, 2007
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                        Windmills often need a smaller base size too. If you fill the chase
                        on a windmill, you can not use the metal fingers to hold down the
                        tail whip on an unruly piece of paper. We often need those fingers
                        to hold paper tight to the tympan when running larger envelopes. We
                        also like to position our bases up from the bottom of the chase to
                        allow room for the guide pins to clear the base in the locked up form.

                        Besides that you do not want to lock up a windmill. If you run a full
                        size form on a big base and the grippers pull a double sheet,
                        impressional strength is taxed heavily and it can lock up. Machinery
                        doesn't perform at it's best when the outer limits of it's
                        capabilities are being tested. On a platen, a chase filling base
                        ultimately provides less flexibility, not more.



                        studioonfire.com





                        > Speed is overrated, and well, that's what the Windmill is for!







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • parallel_imp
                        ... Gerald, Peter, though I haven t seen any cut-up Boxcar bases, will they will fit back together with the same precision of Bunting bases? Certainly there
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jul 31, 2007
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                          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                          >

                          > I'm not sure about the idea of a number of small bases. . . .

                          Gerald, Peter, though I haven't seen any cut-up Boxcar bases, will
                          they will fit back together with the same precision of Bunting bases?
                          Certainly there will be some loss in total size depending on how many
                          cuts are made. How well plastic-backed plates print when the image
                          area crosses a joint between bases is something else to ask Boxcar
                          users (I've never had any problem with metal backed plates on pieces
                          of lead high-base).
                          My argument is that no one size is right for every possible job on
                          a platen press. And even on a cylinder press, separate base units can
                          be used to mount non-contiguous images. And since Peter specifically
                          mentions mixed forms of plate and type, a straight 13x18 base isn't
                          useful for all possible work.
                          --Eric Holub, SF
                        • Gerald Lange
                          Eric Harold sent me one of his 6 x 9 grid bases a long while back. It has a rougher cut on one of the long lengths and on one of the short lengths so I assumed
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jul 31, 2007
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                            Eric

                            Harold sent me one of his 6 x 9 grid bases a long while back. It has a
                            rougher cut on one of the long lengths and on one of the short lengths
                            so I assumed it was cut as a fourth from a larger pattern. And yet
                            when I measured it for parallelism with a Mitutoyo Dial Caliper (very
                            nice tool by the way) it miked out at .877 all around. So, I think
                            there would be no problem with combining pieces cut from the same
                            base, assuming a careful lockup.

                            Gerald
                            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "parallel_imp" <Megalonyx@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@> wrote:
                            > >
                            >
                            > > I'm not sure about the idea of a number of small bases. . . .
                            >
                            > Gerald, Peter, though I haven't seen any cut-up Boxcar bases, will
                            > they will fit back together with the same precision of Bunting bases?
                            > Certainly there will be some loss in total size depending on how many
                            > cuts are made. How well plastic-backed plates print when the image
                            > area crosses a joint between bases is something else to ask Boxcar
                            > users (I've never had any problem with metal backed plates on pieces
                            > of lead high-base).
                            > My argument is that no one size is right for every possible job on
                            > a platen press. And even on a cylinder press, separate base units can
                            > be used to mount non-contiguous images. And since Peter specifically
                            > mentions mixed forms of plate and type, a straight 13x18 base isn't
                            > useful for all possible work.
                            > --Eric Holub, SF
                            >
                          • David Michael McNamara
                            I have to confess not following this thread very closely, but reading Gerald s comment I can jump in and say that I ve printed with cut grids and his
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jul 31, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I have to confess not following this thread very closely, but reading Gerald's comment I can jump in and say that I've printed with cut grids and his prediction is right--I've had no problem printing with combined pieces (using a platen, for what it's worth).
                              __

                              David
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Gerald Lange
                              To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 1:29 PM
                              Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Deep relief pp; Cutting a larger base....


                              Eric

                              Harold sent me one of his 6 x 9 grid bases a long while back. It has a
                              rougher cut on one of the long lengths and on one of the short lengths
                              so I assumed it was cut as a fourth from a larger pattern. And yet
                              when I measured it for parallelism with a Mitutoyo Dial Caliper (very
                              nice tool by the way) it miked out at .877 all around. So, I think
                              there would be no problem with combining pieces cut from the same
                              base, assuming a careful lockup.

                              Gerald
                              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "parallel_imp" <Megalonyx@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@> wrote:
                              > >
                              >
                              > > I'm not sure about the idea of a number of small bases. . . .
                              >
                              > Gerald, Peter, though I haven't seen any cut-up Boxcar bases, will
                              > they will fit back together with the same precision of Bunting bases?
                              > Certainly there will be some loss in total size depending on how many
                              > cuts are made. How well plastic-backed plates print when the image
                              > area crosses a joint between bases is something else to ask Boxcar
                              > users (I've never had any problem with metal backed plates on pieces
                              > of lead high-base).
                              > My argument is that no one size is right for every possible job on
                              > a platen press. And even on a cylinder press, separate base units can
                              > be used to mount non-contiguous images. And since Peter specifically
                              > mentions mixed forms of plate and type, a straight 13x18 base isn't
                              > useful for all possible work.
                              > --Eric Holub, SF
                              >





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Matt Kelsey
                              I have been using a 6x9 Boxcar deep relief base on a 10x15 Challenge-Gordon. The 6x9 is a good size for flexible use on this press; you can lock the base up
                              Message 14 of 20 , Aug 1, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I have been using a 6x9 Boxcar "deep relief" base on a 10x15
                                Challenge-Gordon. The 6x9 is a good size for flexible use on this press; you
                                can lock the base up in the top corner of the chase and still print a
                                business card-size form pretty close to the center of the platen. When I
                                ordered the base, I didn't know about the possibility of having a base cut
                                to different sizes, but it hasn't been a problem. A larger base for this
                                size press would definitely need to be cut to allow for positioning smaller
                                forms in the center of the platen.

                                I'm a little dubious about the value of the deep relief base vs. the regular
                                base. To get good printing from photopolymer, especially with any smaller
                                type, my experience is that you need to adjust the roller height for each
                                job so that the rollers kiss the plate just right without sloshing down the
                                shoulders of the type on the photopolymer; if you are inking the base, no
                                matter which base it is, your printing quality is likely to be poor. The
                                deep relief does not allow enough clearance for gauge pins (and I have a
                                nice little dent on one edge of the base to prove it). I haven't yet tested
                                the higher base to comment on any differences in printing quality between
                                the different thicknesses of plates. But I have heard from more than one
                                source that the thinner plastic-backed plates are superior to the deep
                                relief ones in hardness and possibly sharpness of impression. So I will
                                probably get an appropriate base in the near future to try the thinner
                                plates.

                                Matt

                                On 7/31/07, David Michael McNamara <david@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I have to confess not following this thread very closely, but reading
                                > Gerald's comment I can jump in and say that I've printed with cut grids and
                                > his prediction is right--I've had no problem printing with combined pieces
                                > (using a platen, for what it's worth).
                                > __
                                >
                                > David
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: Gerald Lange
                                > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com <PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 1:29 PM
                                > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Deep relief pp; Cutting a larger base....
                                >
                                > Eric
                                >
                                > Harold sent me one of his 6 x 9 grid bases a long while back. It has a
                                > rougher cut on one of the long lengths and on one of the short lengths
                                > so I assumed it was cut as a fourth from a larger pattern. And yet
                                > when I measured it for parallelism with a Mitutoyo Dial Caliper (very
                                > nice tool by the way) it miked out at .877 all around. So, I think
                                > there would be no problem with combining pieces cut from the same
                                > base, assuming a careful lockup.
                                >
                                > Gerald
                                > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                                >
                                > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com <PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > "parallel_imp" <Megalonyx@...>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com <PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > > I'm not sure about the idea of a number of small bases. . . .
                                > >
                                > > Gerald, Peter, though I haven't seen any cut-up Boxcar bases, will
                                > > they will fit back together with the same precision of Bunting bases?
                                > > Certainly there will be some loss in total size depending on how many
                                > > cuts are made. How well plastic-backed plates print when the image
                                > > area crosses a joint between bases is something else to ask Boxcar
                                > > users (I've never had any problem with metal backed plates on pieces
                                > > of lead high-base).
                                > > My argument is that no one size is right for every possible job on
                                > > a platen press. And even on a cylinder press, separate base units can
                                > > be used to mount non-contiguous images. And since Peter specifically
                                > > mentions mixed forms of plate and type, a straight 13x18 base isn't
                                > > useful for all possible work.
                                > > --Eric Holub, SF
                                > >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Gerald Lange
                                Matt The thinner base, the so called deep relief, will actually accomodate either thick or thin plates with appropriate underlay on the latter ((dependent
                                Message 15 of 20 , Aug 1, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Matt

                                  The thinner base, the so called "deep relief," will actually
                                  accomodate either thick or thin plates with appropriate underlay on
                                  the latter ((dependent upon the variance of grind, .021-.023). So, you
                                  don't really need another base. Bit trickier on a platen though. But
                                  yes, if one is inking the floor of the plate, the rollers are
                                  definitely out of adjustment.

                                  Gerald
                                  http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Kelsey"
                                  <matthewkelsey@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I have been using a 6x9 Boxcar "deep relief" base on a 10x15
                                  > Challenge-Gordon. The 6x9 is a good size for flexible use on this
                                  press; you
                                  > can lock the base up in the top corner of the chase and still print a
                                  > business card-size form pretty close to the center of the platen. When I
                                  > ordered the base, I didn't know about the possibility of having a
                                  base cut
                                  > to different sizes, but it hasn't been a problem. A larger base for this
                                  > size press would definitely need to be cut to allow for positioning
                                  smaller
                                  > forms in the center of the platen.
                                  >
                                  > I'm a little dubious about the value of the deep relief base vs. the
                                  regular
                                  > base. To get good printing from photopolymer, especially with any
                                  smaller
                                  > type, my experience is that you need to adjust the roller height for
                                  each
                                  > job so that the rollers kiss the plate just right without sloshing
                                  down the
                                  > shoulders of the type on the photopolymer; if you are inking the
                                  base, no
                                  > matter which base it is, your printing quality is likely to be poor. The
                                  > deep relief does not allow enough clearance for gauge pins (and I have a
                                  > nice little dent on one edge of the base to prove it). I haven't yet
                                  tested
                                  > the higher base to comment on any differences in printing quality
                                  between
                                  > the different thicknesses of plates. But I have heard from more than one
                                  > source that the thinner plastic-backed plates are superior to the deep
                                  > relief ones in hardness and possibly sharpness of impression. So I will
                                  > probably get an appropriate base in the near future to try the thinner
                                  > plates.
                                  >
                                  > Matt
                                  >
                                  > On 7/31/07, David Michael McNamara <david@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I have to confess not following this thread very closely, but
                                  reading
                                  > > Gerald's comment I can jump in and say that I've printed with cut
                                  grids and
                                  > > his prediction is right--I've had no problem printing with
                                  combined pieces
                                  > > (using a platen, for what it's worth).
                                  > > __
                                  > >
                                  > > David
                                  > >
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: Gerald Lange
                                  > > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com <PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 1:29 PM
                                  > > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Deep relief pp; Cutting a larger base....
                                  > >
                                  > > Eric
                                  > >
                                  > > Harold sent me one of his 6 x 9 grid bases a long while back. It has a
                                  > > rougher cut on one of the long lengths and on one of the short lengths
                                  > > so I assumed it was cut as a fourth from a larger pattern. And yet
                                  > > when I measured it for parallelism with a Mitutoyo Dial Caliper (very
                                  > > nice tool by the way) it miked out at .877 all around. So, I think
                                  > > there would be no problem with combining pieces cut from the same
                                  > > base, assuming a careful lockup.
                                  > >
                                  > > Gerald
                                  > > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                  <PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                  > > "parallel_imp" <Megalonyx@>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                  <PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                  > > "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > I'm not sure about the idea of a number of small bases. . . .
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Gerald, Peter, though I haven't seen any cut-up Boxcar bases, will
                                  > > > they will fit back together with the same precision of Bunting
                                  bases?
                                  > > > Certainly there will be some loss in total size depending on how
                                  many
                                  > > > cuts are made. How well plastic-backed plates print when the image
                                  > > > area crosses a joint between bases is something else to ask Boxcar
                                  > > > users (I've never had any problem with metal backed plates on pieces
                                  > > > of lead high-base).
                                  > > > My argument is that no one size is right for every possible job on
                                  > > > a platen press. And even on a cylinder press, separate base
                                  units can
                                  > > > be used to mount non-contiguous images. And since Peter specifically
                                  > > > mentions mixed forms of plate and type, a straight 13x18 base isn't
                                  > > > useful for all possible work.
                                  > > > --Eric Holub, SF
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Matt Kelsey
                                  Gerald, Yes, I have tried the thinner plates with the underlay. It s definitely trickier with a platen than it would be with a flatbed press. Maybe there are
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Aug 1, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Gerald,

                                    Yes, I have tried the thinner plates with the underlay. It's definitely
                                    trickier with a platen than it would be with a flatbed press. Maybe there
                                    are some tricks that I haven't discovered yet, but I would rather do without
                                    the headache of figuring out where best to tape the underlay so that it
                                    would stay in place but wouldn't interfere with impression. There are
                                    already too many variables without adding more.

                                    Matt

                                    On 8/1/07, Gerald Lange <Bieler@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Matt
                                    >
                                    > The thinner base, the so called "deep relief," will actually
                                    > accomodate either thick or thin plates with appropriate underlay on
                                    > the latter ((dependent upon the variance of grind, .021-.023). So, you
                                    > don't really need another base. Bit trickier on a platen though. But
                                    > yes, if one is inking the floor of the plate, the rollers are
                                    > definitely out of adjustment.
                                    >
                                    > Gerald
                                    > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                                    >
                                    > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com <PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                    > "Matt Kelsey"
                                    >
                                    > <matthewkelsey@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I have been using a 6x9 Boxcar "deep relief" base on a 10x15
                                    > > Challenge-Gordon. The 6x9 is a good size for flexible use on this
                                    > press; you
                                    > > can lock the base up in the top corner of the chase and still print a
                                    > > business card-size form pretty close to the center of the platen. When I
                                    > > ordered the base, I didn't know about the possibility of having a
                                    > base cut
                                    > > to different sizes, but it hasn't been a problem. A larger base for this
                                    > > size press would definitely need to be cut to allow for positioning
                                    > smaller
                                    > > forms in the center of the platen.
                                    > >
                                    > > I'm a little dubious about the value of the deep relief base vs. the
                                    > regular
                                    > > base. To get good printing from photopolymer, especially with any
                                    > smaller
                                    > > type, my experience is that you need to adjust the roller height for
                                    > each
                                    > > job so that the rollers kiss the plate just right without sloshing
                                    > down the
                                    > > shoulders of the type on the photopolymer; if you are inking the
                                    > base, no
                                    > > matter which base it is, your printing quality is likely to be poor. The
                                    > > deep relief does not allow enough clearance for gauge pins (and I have a
                                    > > nice little dent on one edge of the base to prove it). I haven't yet
                                    > tested
                                    > > the higher base to comment on any differences in printing quality
                                    > between
                                    > > the different thicknesses of plates. But I have heard from more than one
                                    > > source that the thinner plastic-backed plates are superior to the deep
                                    > > relief ones in hardness and possibly sharpness of impression. So I will
                                    > > probably get an appropriate base in the near future to try the thinner
                                    > > plates.
                                    > >
                                    > > Matt
                                    > >
                                    > > On 7/31/07, David Michael McNamara <david@...> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I have to confess not following this thread very closely, but
                                    > reading
                                    > > > Gerald's comment I can jump in and say that I've printed with cut
                                    > grids and
                                    > > > his prediction is right--I've had no problem printing with
                                    > combined pieces
                                    > > > (using a platen, for what it's worth).
                                    > > > __
                                    > > >
                                    > > > David
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > > From: Gerald Lange
                                    > > > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com <PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com><PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 1:29 PM
                                    > > > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Deep relief pp; Cutting a larger base....
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Eric
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Harold sent me one of his 6 x 9 grid bases a long while back. It has a
                                    > > > rougher cut on one of the long lengths and on one of the short lengths
                                    > > > so I assumed it was cut as a fourth from a larger pattern. And yet
                                    > > > when I measured it for parallelism with a Mitutoyo Dial Caliper (very
                                    > > > nice tool by the way) it miked out at .877 all around. So, I think
                                    > > > there would be no problem with combining pieces cut from the same
                                    > > > base, assuming a careful lockup.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Gerald
                                    > > > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com <PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > <PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                    > > > "parallel_imp" <Megalonyx@>
                                    > > > wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com<PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > <PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                    > > > "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > > I'm not sure about the idea of a number of small bases. . . .
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Gerald, Peter, though I haven't seen any cut-up Boxcar bases, will
                                    > > > > they will fit back together with the same precision of Bunting
                                    > bases?
                                    > > > > Certainly there will be some loss in total size depending on how
                                    > many
                                    > > > > cuts are made. How well plastic-backed plates print when the image
                                    > > > > area crosses a joint between bases is something else to ask Boxcar
                                    > > > > users (I've never had any problem with metal backed plates on pieces
                                    > > > > of lead high-base).
                                    > > > > My argument is that no one size is right for every possible job on
                                    > > > > a platen press. And even on a cylinder press, separate base
                                    > units can
                                    > > > > be used to mount non-contiguous images. And since Peter specifically
                                    > > > > mentions mixed forms of plate and type, a straight 13x18 base isn't
                                    > > > > useful for all possible work.
                                    > > > > --Eric Holub, SF
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Gerald Lange
                                    Matt You don t have to tape the underlay. You can buy pre-measured thicknesses of acetate at art supply stores. Just make the bottommost sheet of underlay a
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Aug 1, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Matt

                                      You don't have to tape the underlay. You can buy pre-measured
                                      thicknesses of acetate at art supply stores. Just make the bottommost
                                      sheet of underlay a half inch or so larger than the base size (at the
                                      top and bottom area of the base), and fold it (quite accurately) at
                                      those marks and lock it against those edges of the base in the chase.
                                      Or you can just do the top edges of the combined underlay and "hang"
                                      it as the chase is clamped into position. By creating a second fold at
                                      the bottom of the base though, any further partial underlay
                                      adjustments needed in balancing the base can be inserted within the
                                      acetate "sandwich."

                                      Gerald
                                      http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Kelsey"
                                      <matthewkelsey@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Gerald,
                                      >
                                      > Yes, I have tried the thinner plates with the underlay. It's definitely
                                      > trickier with a platen than it would be with a flatbed press. Maybe
                                      there
                                      > are some tricks that I haven't discovered yet, but I would rather do
                                      without
                                      > the headache of figuring out where best to tape the underlay so that it
                                      > would stay in place but wouldn't interfere with impression. There are
                                      > already too many variables without adding more.
                                      >
                                      > Matt
                                      >
                                      > On 8/1/07, Gerald Lange <Bieler@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Matt
                                      > >
                                      > > The thinner base, the so called "deep relief," will actually
                                      > > accomodate either thick or thin plates with appropriate underlay on
                                      > > the latter ((dependent upon the variance of grind, .021-.023). So, you
                                      > > don't really need another base. Bit trickier on a platen though. But
                                      > > yes, if one is inking the floor of the plate, the rollers are
                                      > > definitely out of adjustment.
                                      > >
                                      > > Gerald
                                      > > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                                      > >
                                    • Peter Fraterdeus
                                      Thanks all for the enlightenment on this thread! Hope to have all the pieces in place to give it a whirl in the next week or so. (Still waiting for my 220
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Aug 2, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Thanks all for the enlightenment on this thread!
                                        Hope to have all the pieces in place to give it a whirl in the next week or so. (Still waiting for my 220 power install for the Intertek...)
                                        I've got a 9x12 Boxcar base which came along with the Heidelberg, as it turns out.
                                        Haven't checked with the gauge yet, but I assume it's "standard" height, as there are no markings indicating otherwise (does the deep base have a note to that effect?)

                                        Regards
                                        PF

                                        At 5:21 AM +0000 2 08 07, Gerald Lange wrote:
                                        >Matt
                                        >
                                        >The thinner base, the so called "deep relief," will actually
                                        >accomodate either thick or thin plates with appropriate underlay on
                                        >the latter ((dependent upon the variance of grind, .021-.023). So, you
                                        >don't really need another base. Bit trickier on a platen though. But
                                        >yes, if one is inking the floor of the plate, the rollers are
                                        >definitely out of adjustment.

                                        --
                                        AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
                                        >ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!<

                                        Semiotx Inc http://typeandmeaning.com Sign up for "Type and Meaning" !
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                                      • Harold Kyle
                                        The bases with red gridding are Deep Relief. Standard bases have black gridding. For Matt, a glue stick helps keep underlay attached to the base during lockup.
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Aug 2, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          The bases with red gridding are Deep Relief. Standard bases have black
                                          gridding.

                                          For Matt, a glue stick helps keep underlay attached to the base during
                                          lockup.

                                          I hope this helps,
                                          Harold



                                          Peter Fraterdeus wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Thanks all for the enlightenment on this thread!
                                          > Hope to have all the pieces in place to give it a whirl in the next
                                          > week or so. (Still waiting for my 220 power install for the Intertek...)
                                          > I've got a 9x12 Boxcar base which came along with the Heidelberg, as
                                          > it turns out.
                                          > Haven't checked with the gauge yet, but I assume it's "standard"
                                          > height, as there are no markings indicating otherwise (does the deep
                                          > base have a note to that effect?)
                                          >
                                          > Regards
                                          > PF
                                          >
                                          > At 5:21 AM +0000 2 08 07, Gerald Lange wrote:
                                          > >Matt
                                          > >
                                          > >The thinner base, the so called "deep relief," will actually
                                          > >accomodate either thick or thin plates with appropriate underlay on
                                          > >the latter ((dependent upon the variance of grind, .021-.023). So, you
                                          > >don't really need another base. Bit trickier on a platen though. But
                                          > >yes, if one is inking the floor of the plate, the rollers are
                                          > >definitely out of adjustment.
                                          >
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                                        • Gerald Lange
                                          Matt Thanks. I would think this would work for any kind of base where the plate and base combination do not work out to type high but can be measurable.
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Aug 2, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Matt

                                            Thanks. I would think this would work for any kind of base where the
                                            plate and base combination do not work out to type high but can be
                                            measurable. Though, the fold is tricky; a 1/2-pt (copper) or 1-pt (brass
                                            or lead) length of leading might need be used to compensate between the
                                            base and underlay slip.

                                            Gerald
                                            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                                            Matt Kelsey wrote:
                                            > Gerald,
                                            >
                                            > Thanks for this. I knew there must be some clever way of doing the
                                            > underlay, but I definitely hadn't thought of this. I am reluctant to
                                            > use a glue stick or anything that could leave buildup, residue, etc.
                                            > But the folded acetate is a great idea that would make this base
                                            > easily switchable between the different thicknesses of plates.
                                            >
                                            > Matt
                                            >
                                            > On 8/1/07, *Gerald Lange* <Bieler@... <mailto:Bieler@...>> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Matt
                                            >
                                            > You don't have to tape the underlay. You can buy pre-measured
                                            > thicknesses of acetate at art supply stores. Just make the bottommost
                                            > sheet of underlay a half inch or so larger than the base size (at the
                                            > top and bottom area of the base), and fold it (quite accurately) at
                                            > those marks and lock it against those edges of the base in the chase.
                                            > Or you can just do the top edges of the combined underlay and "hang"
                                            > it as the chase is clamped into position. By creating a second fold at
                                            > the bottom of the base though, any further partial underlay
                                            > adjustments needed in balancing the base can be inserted within the
                                            > acetate "sandwich."
                                            >
                                            > Gerald
                                            > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                                            >
                                            > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                            > <mailto:PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com>, "Matt Kelsey"
                                            > <matthewkelsey@...> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Gerald,
                                            > >
                                            > > Yes, I have tried the thinner plates with the underlay. It's
                                            > definitely
                                            > > trickier with a platen than it would be with a flatbed press. Maybe
                                            > there
                                            > > are some tricks that I haven't discovered yet, but I would rather do
                                            > without
                                            > > the headache of figuring out where best to tape the underlay so
                                            > that it
                                            > > would stay in place but wouldn't interfere with impression. There are
                                            > > already too many variables without adding more.
                                            > >
                                            > > Matt
                                            > >
                                            >
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