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Re: Soy update

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  • Gerald Lange
    Heidrun This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 9, 2007
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      Heidrun

      This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage:

      http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2

      Gerald



      In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, heidrun mumper-drumm <drummbeat@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > If you do find out the percentage, please let me know. I do know
      that having as little as 10% soy allows the industry to state
      'soy-based inks,' which then qualifies as 'green washing' to my mind.
      >
      > Heidrun
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > >From: amy borezo <aborezo@...>
      > >Sent: Jul 8, 2007 7:58 AM
      > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Soy update
      > >
      > >Heidrun,
      > >
      > >I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear
      to be a
      > >blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give
      them a
      > >call.
      > >
      > >There is definitely more research to be done. I'm finding out
      little bits at
      > >a time and would like to continue to do so. It would certainly be
      > >interesting to examine the "hidden costs", if there indeed are any,
      of using
      > >soy inks. I suppose no one can assume anything until the research
      has been
      > >done.
      > >
      > >It is a fact that soy inks contain less VOCs, 1-3%. This is not
      only a labor
      > >issue, but an environmental issue, when you consider that the printing
      > >industry uses 2 billion pounds of ink per year. (source
      > >http://www.flintgrp.com/InkBackgrounder.pdf). Is that fact balanced
      out by
      > >some other detrimental effect to people and the environment? I
      don't know
      > >yet, but I will be doing more research.
      > >
      > >amy borezo
      > >shelter/Books
      > >www.shelterbooks.com
      > >
      > >
      > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Peter Fraterdeus
      Hi Gerald, all, ... I went to this site, and was immediately confronted by a pop-up Safari dialog box claiming that my computer needed to be Cleaned (I had
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 9, 2007
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        Hi Gerald, all,

        At 4:45 PM +0000 9 07 07, Gerald Lange wrote:
        >Heidrun
        >
        >This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage:
        >
        >http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2


        I went to this site, and was immediately confronted by a "pop-up" Safari dialog box claiming that my computer needed to be "Cleaned" (I had turned off the pop-up blocker, as I'm a developer, I need to see these sometimes)

        Unlikely...

        Although it's unlikely that ErrClean would affect a Mac (unless it was running Windoze of course), rather than risk the fact that it ignores the Cancel button, I force-quit Safari

        Here's the scoop on ErrClean if others run into the problem:

        http://www.enigmasoftware.com/support/spyhunter-threat-database-update-498/
        """
        ErrClean
        ErrClean is a fake system repair utility that is often downloaded and installed by a Trojan or through browser security holes. ErrClean will also display notifications of imaginary security risks in its attempts to get the user to purchase the full version. This program can be extremely difficult to remove manually, and will continue to try to recreate itself.
        """

        It may not need saying, but I will do so anyway.
        Don't ever take candy from strangers, or let an unknown application have access to your hard-disk.
        Also, if it sounds too good to be true, it is.

        ;-)

        Cheers
        PF

        --
        AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
        ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!

        Semiotx Inc. http://typeandmeaning.com
        Web Strategy Consulting Communication Design Typography

        -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*

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        Galena, Illinois http://www.alphabets.com
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      • Gerald Lange
        Heidrun In reading through that list from the search I d recommend downloading the PDF Biochemicals for the Printing Industry. This has percentages listed.
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 9, 2007
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          Heidrun

          In reading through that list from the search I'd recommend downloading
          the PDF "Biochemicals for the Printing Industry." This has percentages
          listed.

          My limited experience with soy inks has not been all that
          satisfactory. I can't get the quality of presswork that I've
          experienced with other inks—I suspect that this has something to do
          with the carrier to pigment ratio in the blacks. Nor does soy ink seem
          to respond well with traditional additives, such as magnesium
          carbonate. Also, since it is considered more biodegradable than
          traditional inks I wonder about its longevity. Plus, it's a bit
          unnerving that the stuff can be washed off your hands with plain soap
          and water!!!

          Gerald

          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
          >
          > Heidrun
          >
          > This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage:
          >
          >
          http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2
          >
          > Gerald
          >
          >
          >
          > In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, heidrun mumper-drumm <drummbeat@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > If you do find out the percentage, please let me know. I do know
          > that having as little as 10% soy allows the industry to state
          > 'soy-based inks,' which then qualifies as 'green washing' to my mind.
          > >
          > > Heidrun
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > >From: amy borezo <aborezo@>
          > > >Sent: Jul 8, 2007 7:58 AM
          > > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Soy update
          > > >
          > > >Heidrun,
          > > >
          > > >I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear
          > to be a
          > > >blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give
          > them a
          > > >call.
          > > >
          > > >There is definitely more research to be done. I'm finding out
          > little bits at
          > > >a time and would like to continue to do so. It would certainly be
          > > >interesting to examine the "hidden costs", if there indeed are any,
          > of using
          > > >soy inks. I suppose no one can assume anything until the research
          > has been
          > > >done.
          > > >
          > > >It is a fact that soy inks contain less VOCs, 1-3%. This is not
          > only a labor
          > > >issue, but an environmental issue, when you consider that the
          printing
          > > >industry uses 2 billion pounds of ink per year. (source
          > > >http://www.flintgrp.com/InkBackgrounder.pdf). Is that fact balanced
          > out by
          > > >some other detrimental effect to people and the environment? I
          > don't know
          > > >yet, but I will be doing more research.
          > > >
          > > >amy borezo
          > > >shelter/Books
          > > >www.shelterbooks.com
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • heidrun mumper-drumm
          I would agree with you. Making sure that I, and any letterpress or offset printer I use, uses the ink [oil or rubber base] efficiently [minimize waste] and
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 9, 2007
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            I would agree with you. Making sure that I, and any letterpress or offset printer I use, uses the ink [oil or rubber base] efficiently [minimize waste] and thoroughly [use up the can] is more important than just some soy content.

            Heidrun

            -----Original Message-----
            >From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@...>
            >Sent: Jul 9, 2007 10:32 AM
            >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Soy update
            >
            >Heidrun
            >
            >In reading through that list from the search I'd recommend downloading
            >the PDF "Biochemicals for the Printing Industry." This has percentages
            >listed.
            >
            >My limited experience with soy inks has not been all that
            >satisfactory. I can't get the quality of presswork that I've
            >experienced with other inks—I suspect that this has something to do
            >with the carrier to pigment ratio in the blacks. Nor does soy ink seem
            >to respond well with traditional additives, such as magnesium
            >carbonate. Also, since it is considered more biodegradable than
            >traditional inks I wonder about its longevity. Plus, it's a bit
            >unnerving that the stuff can be washed off your hands with plain soap
            >and water!!!
            >
            >Gerald
            >
            >--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Heidrun
            >>
            >> This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage:
            >>
            >>
            >http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2
            >>
            >> Gerald
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, heidrun mumper-drumm <drummbeat@>
            >> wrote:
            >> >
            >> > If you do find out the percentage, please let me know. I do know
            >> that having as little as 10% soy allows the industry to state
            >> 'soy-based inks,' which then qualifies as 'green washing' to my mind.
            >> >
            >> > Heidrun
            >> >
            >> > -----Original Message-----
            >> > >From: amy borezo <aborezo@>
            >> > >Sent: Jul 8, 2007 7:58 AM
            >> > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            >> > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Soy update
            >> > >
            >> > >Heidrun,
            >> > >
            >> > >I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear
            >> to be a
            >> > >blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give
            >> them a
            >> > >call.
            >> > >
            >> > >There is definitely more research to be done. I'm finding out
            >> little bits at
            >> > >a time and would like to continue to do so. It would certainly be
            >> > >interesting to examine the "hidden costs", if there indeed are any,
            >> of using
            >> > >soy inks. I suppose no one can assume anything until the research
            >> has been
            >> > >done.
            >> > >
            >> > >It is a fact that soy inks contain less VOCs, 1-3%. This is not
            >> only a labor
            >> > >issue, but an environmental issue, when you consider that the
            >printing
            >> > >industry uses 2 billion pounds of ink per year. (source
            >> > >http://www.flintgrp.com/InkBackgrounder.pdf). Is that fact balanced
            >> out by
            >> > >some other detrimental effect to people and the environment? I
            >> don't know
            >> > >yet, but I will be doing more research.
            >> > >
            >> > >amy borezo
            >> > >shelter/Books
            >> > >www.shelterbooks.com
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> > >
            >> >
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Gerald Lange
            Actually, I ve not found any studies that indicate that soy-based ink is compatible with the letterpress process. With the legislation that has been passed and
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 9, 2007
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              Actually, I've not found any studies that indicate that soy-based ink
              is compatible with the letterpress process. With the legislation that
              has been passed and is pending, I wonder how long some of the older
              and trusted inks will be available. The push toward safer working
              conditions and concern for the environment, while admirable, doesn't
              necessarily translate into better materials for manufacturing processes.

              There were some studies a long while back on the chemical analysis of
              the ink used in Gutenberg's printed work. Apparently, he took the
              secret of it to his grave as even the subsequent printed work of Fust
              and Schoeffer does not share the formula. The rich and enduring black
              of the ink on the pages of the Gutenberg Bible is due to high
              concentration of lead, presumably lead carbonate (white lead). This is
              a highly toxic substance now banned to some extent in the manufacture
              of paint and volatile products, though still considered a qualitative
              ingredient.

              As an aside: I have a book from 1909 titled The Lead and Zinc Pigments
              that details the manufacture of white lead with many photos of the
              processes. Those factory conditions are truly frightening, the workers
              literally lived and breathed the stuff, no gloves, no masks; even a
              photo of a proudly posed woman gathering the material in bare feet.
              We've come a very long way from that.

              Gerald

              >
              > I would agree with you. Making sure that I, and any letterpress or
              offset printer I use, uses the ink [oil or rubber base] efficiently
              [minimize waste] and thoroughly [use up the can] is more important
              than just some soy content.
              >
              > Heidrun
              >

              > >
              > >My limited experience with soy inks has not been all that
              > >satisfactory. I can't get the quality of presswork that I've
              > >experienced with other inksâ€"I suspect that this has something to do
              > >with the carrier to pigment ratio in the blacks. Nor does soy ink seem
              > >to respond well with traditional additives, such as magnesium
              > >carbonate. Also, since it is considered more biodegradable than
              > >traditional inks I wonder about its longevity. Plus, it's a bit
              > >unnerving that the stuff can be washed off your hands with plain soap
              > >and water!!!
              > >
              > >Gerald
            • amy borezo
              I hope one day (soon) to do a side by side comparison of soy ink with other inks. A few days ago I looked up soy on the letpress archives to see if anyone had
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 10, 2007
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                I hope one day (soon) to do a side by side comparison of soy ink with other
                inks.

                A few days ago I looked up soy on the letpress archives to see if anyone had
                any printing complaints and I didn't find any.

                It's not surprising, for many reasons, that no "studies" have been done of
                soy's compatibility with letterpress, thus far.

                amy
                shelter/Books
                www.shelterbookworks.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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