Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Soy update

Expand Messages
  • amy borezo
    Heidrun, I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear to be a blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give them a
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 8, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Heidrun,

      I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear to be a
      blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give them a
      call.

      There is definitely more research to be done. I'm finding out little bits at
      a time and would like to continue to do so. It would certainly be
      interesting to examine the "hidden costs", if there indeed are any, of using
      soy inks. I suppose no one can assume anything until the research has been
      done.

      It is a fact that soy inks contain less VOCs, 1-3%. This is not only a labor
      issue, but an environmental issue, when you consider that the printing
      industry uses 2 billion pounds of ink per year. (source
      http://www.flintgrp.com/InkBackgrounder.pdf). Is that fact balanced out by
      some other detrimental effect to people and the environment? I don't know
      yet, but I will be doing more research.

      amy borezo
      shelter/Books
      www.shelterbooks.com


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • heidrun mumper-drumm
      If you do find out the percentage, please let me know. I do know that having as little as 10% soy allows the industry to state soy-based inks, which then
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 9, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        If you do find out the percentage, please let me know. I do know that having as little as 10% soy allows the industry to state 'soy-based inks,' which then qualifies as 'green washing' to my mind.

        Heidrun

        -----Original Message-----
        >From: amy borezo <aborezo@...>
        >Sent: Jul 8, 2007 7:58 AM
        >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Soy update
        >
        >Heidrun,
        >
        >I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear to be a
        >blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give them a
        >call.
        >
        >There is definitely more research to be done. I'm finding out little bits at
        >a time and would like to continue to do so. It would certainly be
        >interesting to examine the "hidden costs", if there indeed are any, of using
        >soy inks. I suppose no one can assume anything until the research has been
        >done.
        >
        >It is a fact that soy inks contain less VOCs, 1-3%. This is not only a labor
        >issue, but an environmental issue, when you consider that the printing
        >industry uses 2 billion pounds of ink per year. (source
        >http://www.flintgrp.com/InkBackgrounder.pdf). Is that fact balanced out by
        >some other detrimental effect to people and the environment? I don't know
        >yet, but I will be doing more research.
        >
        >amy borezo
        >shelter/Books
        >www.shelterbooks.com
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Gerald Lange
        Heidrun This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 9, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Heidrun

          This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage:

          http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2

          Gerald



          In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, heidrun mumper-drumm <drummbeat@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > If you do find out the percentage, please let me know. I do know
          that having as little as 10% soy allows the industry to state
          'soy-based inks,' which then qualifies as 'green washing' to my mind.
          >
          > Heidrun
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > >From: amy borezo <aborezo@...>
          > >Sent: Jul 8, 2007 7:58 AM
          > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Soy update
          > >
          > >Heidrun,
          > >
          > >I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear
          to be a
          > >blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give
          them a
          > >call.
          > >
          > >There is definitely more research to be done. I'm finding out
          little bits at
          > >a time and would like to continue to do so. It would certainly be
          > >interesting to examine the "hidden costs", if there indeed are any,
          of using
          > >soy inks. I suppose no one can assume anything until the research
          has been
          > >done.
          > >
          > >It is a fact that soy inks contain less VOCs, 1-3%. This is not
          only a labor
          > >issue, but an environmental issue, when you consider that the printing
          > >industry uses 2 billion pounds of ink per year. (source
          > >http://www.flintgrp.com/InkBackgrounder.pdf). Is that fact balanced
          out by
          > >some other detrimental effect to people and the environment? I
          don't know
          > >yet, but I will be doing more research.
          > >
          > >amy borezo
          > >shelter/Books
          > >www.shelterbooks.com
          > >
          > >
          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Peter Fraterdeus
          Hi Gerald, all, ... I went to this site, and was immediately confronted by a pop-up Safari dialog box claiming that my computer needed to be Cleaned (I had
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 9, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Gerald, all,

            At 4:45 PM +0000 9 07 07, Gerald Lange wrote:
            >Heidrun
            >
            >This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage:
            >
            >http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2


            I went to this site, and was immediately confronted by a "pop-up" Safari dialog box claiming that my computer needed to be "Cleaned" (I had turned off the pop-up blocker, as I'm a developer, I need to see these sometimes)

            Unlikely...

            Although it's unlikely that ErrClean would affect a Mac (unless it was running Windoze of course), rather than risk the fact that it ignores the Cancel button, I force-quit Safari

            Here's the scoop on ErrClean if others run into the problem:

            http://www.enigmasoftware.com/support/spyhunter-threat-database-update-498/
            """
            ErrClean
            ErrClean is a fake system repair utility that is often downloaded and installed by a Trojan or through browser security holes. ErrClean will also display notifications of imaginary security risks in its attempts to get the user to purchase the full version. This program can be extremely difficult to remove manually, and will continue to try to recreate itself.
            """

            It may not need saying, but I will do so anyway.
            Don't ever take candy from strangers, or let an unknown application have access to your hard-disk.
            Also, if it sounds too good to be true, it is.

            ;-)

            Cheers
            PF

            --
            AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
            ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!

            Semiotx Inc. http://typeandmeaning.com
            Web Strategy Consulting Communication Design Typography

            -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*

            Peter Fraterdeus http://www.fraterdeus.com http://www.galenaphotos.com
            Galena, Illinois http://www.alphabets.com
            Photography Irish Fiddle Political Observation
            Philosophy Fonts Lettering
          • Gerald Lange
            Heidrun In reading through that list from the search I d recommend downloading the PDF Biochemicals for the Printing Industry. This has percentages listed.
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 9, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Heidrun

              In reading through that list from the search I'd recommend downloading
              the PDF "Biochemicals for the Printing Industry." This has percentages
              listed.

              My limited experience with soy inks has not been all that
              satisfactory. I can't get the quality of presswork that I've
              experienced with other inks—I suspect that this has something to do
              with the carrier to pigment ratio in the blacks. Nor does soy ink seem
              to respond well with traditional additives, such as magnesium
              carbonate. Also, since it is considered more biodegradable than
              traditional inks I wonder about its longevity. Plus, it's a bit
              unnerving that the stuff can be washed off your hands with plain soap
              and water!!!

              Gerald

              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
              >
              > Heidrun
              >
              > This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage:
              >
              >
              http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2
              >
              > Gerald
              >
              >
              >
              > In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, heidrun mumper-drumm <drummbeat@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > If you do find out the percentage, please let me know. I do know
              > that having as little as 10% soy allows the industry to state
              > 'soy-based inks,' which then qualifies as 'green washing' to my mind.
              > >
              > > Heidrun
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > >From: amy borezo <aborezo@>
              > > >Sent: Jul 8, 2007 7:58 AM
              > > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              > > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Soy update
              > > >
              > > >Heidrun,
              > > >
              > > >I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear
              > to be a
              > > >blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give
              > them a
              > > >call.
              > > >
              > > >There is definitely more research to be done. I'm finding out
              > little bits at
              > > >a time and would like to continue to do so. It would certainly be
              > > >interesting to examine the "hidden costs", if there indeed are any,
              > of using
              > > >soy inks. I suppose no one can assume anything until the research
              > has been
              > > >done.
              > > >
              > > >It is a fact that soy inks contain less VOCs, 1-3%. This is not
              > only a labor
              > > >issue, but an environmental issue, when you consider that the
              printing
              > > >industry uses 2 billion pounds of ink per year. (source
              > > >http://www.flintgrp.com/InkBackgrounder.pdf). Is that fact balanced
              > out by
              > > >some other detrimental effect to people and the environment? I
              > don't know
              > > >yet, but I will be doing more research.
              > > >
              > > >amy borezo
              > > >shelter/Books
              > > >www.shelterbooks.com
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • heidrun mumper-drumm
              I would agree with you. Making sure that I, and any letterpress or offset printer I use, uses the ink [oil or rubber base] efficiently [minimize waste] and
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 9, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                I would agree with you. Making sure that I, and any letterpress or offset printer I use, uses the ink [oil or rubber base] efficiently [minimize waste] and thoroughly [use up the can] is more important than just some soy content.

                Heidrun

                -----Original Message-----
                >From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@...>
                >Sent: Jul 9, 2007 10:32 AM
                >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Soy update
                >
                >Heidrun
                >
                >In reading through that list from the search I'd recommend downloading
                >the PDF "Biochemicals for the Printing Industry." This has percentages
                >listed.
                >
                >My limited experience with soy inks has not been all that
                >satisfactory. I can't get the quality of presswork that I've
                >experienced with other inks—I suspect that this has something to do
                >with the carrier to pigment ratio in the blacks. Nor does soy ink seem
                >to respond well with traditional additives, such as magnesium
                >carbonate. Also, since it is considered more biodegradable than
                >traditional inks I wonder about its longevity. Plus, it's a bit
                >unnerving that the stuff can be washed off your hands with plain soap
                >and water!!!
                >
                >Gerald
                >
                >--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> Heidrun
                >>
                >> This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage:
                >>
                >>
                >http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2
                >>
                >> Gerald
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, heidrun mumper-drumm <drummbeat@>
                >> wrote:
                >> >
                >> > If you do find out the percentage, please let me know. I do know
                >> that having as little as 10% soy allows the industry to state
                >> 'soy-based inks,' which then qualifies as 'green washing' to my mind.
                >> >
                >> > Heidrun
                >> >
                >> > -----Original Message-----
                >> > >From: amy borezo <aborezo@>
                >> > >Sent: Jul 8, 2007 7:58 AM
                >> > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                >> > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Soy update
                >> > >
                >> > >Heidrun,
                >> > >
                >> > >I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear
                >> to be a
                >> > >blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give
                >> them a
                >> > >call.
                >> > >
                >> > >There is definitely more research to be done. I'm finding out
                >> little bits at
                >> > >a time and would like to continue to do so. It would certainly be
                >> > >interesting to examine the "hidden costs", if there indeed are any,
                >> of using
                >> > >soy inks. I suppose no one can assume anything until the research
                >> has been
                >> > >done.
                >> > >
                >> > >It is a fact that soy inks contain less VOCs, 1-3%. This is not
                >> only a labor
                >> > >issue, but an environmental issue, when you consider that the
                >printing
                >> > >industry uses 2 billion pounds of ink per year. (source
                >> > >http://www.flintgrp.com/InkBackgrounder.pdf). Is that fact balanced
                >> out by
                >> > >some other detrimental effect to people and the environment? I
                >> don't know
                >> > >yet, but I will be doing more research.
                >> > >
                >> > >amy borezo
                >> > >shelter/Books
                >> > >www.shelterbooks.com
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> > >
                >> >
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • Gerald Lange
                Actually, I ve not found any studies that indicate that soy-based ink is compatible with the letterpress process. With the legislation that has been passed and
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 9, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Actually, I've not found any studies that indicate that soy-based ink
                  is compatible with the letterpress process. With the legislation that
                  has been passed and is pending, I wonder how long some of the older
                  and trusted inks will be available. The push toward safer working
                  conditions and concern for the environment, while admirable, doesn't
                  necessarily translate into better materials for manufacturing processes.

                  There were some studies a long while back on the chemical analysis of
                  the ink used in Gutenberg's printed work. Apparently, he took the
                  secret of it to his grave as even the subsequent printed work of Fust
                  and Schoeffer does not share the formula. The rich and enduring black
                  of the ink on the pages of the Gutenberg Bible is due to high
                  concentration of lead, presumably lead carbonate (white lead). This is
                  a highly toxic substance now banned to some extent in the manufacture
                  of paint and volatile products, though still considered a qualitative
                  ingredient.

                  As an aside: I have a book from 1909 titled The Lead and Zinc Pigments
                  that details the manufacture of white lead with many photos of the
                  processes. Those factory conditions are truly frightening, the workers
                  literally lived and breathed the stuff, no gloves, no masks; even a
                  photo of a proudly posed woman gathering the material in bare feet.
                  We've come a very long way from that.

                  Gerald

                  >
                  > I would agree with you. Making sure that I, and any letterpress or
                  offset printer I use, uses the ink [oil or rubber base] efficiently
                  [minimize waste] and thoroughly [use up the can] is more important
                  than just some soy content.
                  >
                  > Heidrun
                  >

                  > >
                  > >My limited experience with soy inks has not been all that
                  > >satisfactory. I can't get the quality of presswork that I've
                  > >experienced with other inksâ€"I suspect that this has something to do
                  > >with the carrier to pigment ratio in the blacks. Nor does soy ink seem
                  > >to respond well with traditional additives, such as magnesium
                  > >carbonate. Also, since it is considered more biodegradable than
                  > >traditional inks I wonder about its longevity. Plus, it's a bit
                  > >unnerving that the stuff can be washed off your hands with plain soap
                  > >and water!!!
                  > >
                  > >Gerald
                • amy borezo
                  I hope one day (soon) to do a side by side comparison of soy ink with other inks. A few days ago I looked up soy on the letpress archives to see if anyone had
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 10, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I hope one day (soon) to do a side by side comparison of soy ink with other
                    inks.

                    A few days ago I looked up soy on the letpress archives to see if anyone had
                    any printing complaints and I didn't find any.

                    It's not surprising, for many reasons, that no "studies" have been done of
                    soy's compatibility with letterpress, thus far.

                    amy
                    shelter/Books
                    www.shelterbookworks.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.