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Re: [PPLetterpress] Soy update

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  • heidrun mumper-drumm
    Amy: Do you know the percentage of soy to rubber/oil base in the ink? From what I understand, the replacement with soy is not 100%. Heidrun ... Heidrun
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 7 4:58 PM
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      Amy:

      Do you know the percentage of soy to rubber/oil base in the ink? From what I understand, the replacement with soy is not 100%.

      Heidrun

      -----Original Message-----
      >From: amy borezo <aborezo@...>
      >Sent: Jul 6, 2007 4:44 PM
      >To: No Reply <notify-dg-PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
      >Cc: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Soy update
      >
      >Hello,
      >
      >I spoke with someone at Gans who says that the soybeans from which they make
      >their soy ink are domestically grown. He also mentioned that the push for
      >creating vegetable oil inks stems from an effort to lower VOC emissions.
      >
      >very best,
      >amy b.
      >shelter/Books
      >www.shelterbookworks.com
      >
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >


      ----------------------------------------------------------------
      Heidrun Mumper-Drumm + Design and Letterpress
      drummbeat@...
    • amy borezo
      Heidrun, I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear to be a blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give them a
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 8 7:58 AM
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        Heidrun,

        I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear to be a
        blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give them a
        call.

        There is definitely more research to be done. I'm finding out little bits at
        a time and would like to continue to do so. It would certainly be
        interesting to examine the "hidden costs", if there indeed are any, of using
        soy inks. I suppose no one can assume anything until the research has been
        done.

        It is a fact that soy inks contain less VOCs, 1-3%. This is not only a labor
        issue, but an environmental issue, when you consider that the printing
        industry uses 2 billion pounds of ink per year. (source
        http://www.flintgrp.com/InkBackgrounder.pdf). Is that fact balanced out by
        some other detrimental effect to people and the environment? I don't know
        yet, but I will be doing more research.

        amy borezo
        shelter/Books
        www.shelterbooks.com


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • heidrun mumper-drumm
        If you do find out the percentage, please let me know. I do know that having as little as 10% soy allows the industry to state soy-based inks, which then
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 9 8:15 AM
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          If you do find out the percentage, please let me know. I do know that having as little as 10% soy allows the industry to state 'soy-based inks,' which then qualifies as 'green washing' to my mind.

          Heidrun

          -----Original Message-----
          >From: amy borezo <aborezo@...>
          >Sent: Jul 8, 2007 7:58 AM
          >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Soy update
          >
          >Heidrun,
          >
          >I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear to be a
          >blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give them a
          >call.
          >
          >There is definitely more research to be done. I'm finding out little bits at
          >a time and would like to continue to do so. It would certainly be
          >interesting to examine the "hidden costs", if there indeed are any, of using
          >soy inks. I suppose no one can assume anything until the research has been
          >done.
          >
          >It is a fact that soy inks contain less VOCs, 1-3%. This is not only a labor
          >issue, but an environmental issue, when you consider that the printing
          >industry uses 2 billion pounds of ink per year. (source
          >http://www.flintgrp.com/InkBackgrounder.pdf). Is that fact balanced out by
          >some other detrimental effect to people and the environment? I don't know
          >yet, but I will be doing more research.
          >
          >amy borezo
          >shelter/Books
          >www.shelterbooks.com
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Gerald Lange
          Heidrun This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 9 9:45 AM
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            Heidrun

            This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage:

            http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2

            Gerald



            In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, heidrun mumper-drumm <drummbeat@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > If you do find out the percentage, please let me know. I do know
            that having as little as 10% soy allows the industry to state
            'soy-based inks,' which then qualifies as 'green washing' to my mind.
            >
            > Heidrun
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > >From: amy borezo <aborezo@...>
            > >Sent: Jul 8, 2007 7:58 AM
            > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Soy update
            > >
            > >Heidrun,
            > >
            > >I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear
            to be a
            > >blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give
            them a
            > >call.
            > >
            > >There is definitely more research to be done. I'm finding out
            little bits at
            > >a time and would like to continue to do so. It would certainly be
            > >interesting to examine the "hidden costs", if there indeed are any,
            of using
            > >soy inks. I suppose no one can assume anything until the research
            has been
            > >done.
            > >
            > >It is a fact that soy inks contain less VOCs, 1-3%. This is not
            only a labor
            > >issue, but an environmental issue, when you consider that the printing
            > >industry uses 2 billion pounds of ink per year. (source
            > >http://www.flintgrp.com/InkBackgrounder.pdf). Is that fact balanced
            out by
            > >some other detrimental effect to people and the environment? I
            don't know
            > >yet, but I will be doing more research.
            > >
            > >amy borezo
            > >shelter/Books
            > >www.shelterbooks.com
            > >
            > >
            > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Peter Fraterdeus
            Hi Gerald, all, ... I went to this site, and was immediately confronted by a pop-up Safari dialog box claiming that my computer needed to be Cleaned (I had
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 9 10:26 AM
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              Hi Gerald, all,

              At 4:45 PM +0000 9 07 07, Gerald Lange wrote:
              >Heidrun
              >
              >This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage:
              >
              >http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2


              I went to this site, and was immediately confronted by a "pop-up" Safari dialog box claiming that my computer needed to be "Cleaned" (I had turned off the pop-up blocker, as I'm a developer, I need to see these sometimes)

              Unlikely...

              Although it's unlikely that ErrClean would affect a Mac (unless it was running Windoze of course), rather than risk the fact that it ignores the Cancel button, I force-quit Safari

              Here's the scoop on ErrClean if others run into the problem:

              http://www.enigmasoftware.com/support/spyhunter-threat-database-update-498/
              """
              ErrClean
              ErrClean is a fake system repair utility that is often downloaded and installed by a Trojan or through browser security holes. ErrClean will also display notifications of imaginary security risks in its attempts to get the user to purchase the full version. This program can be extremely difficult to remove manually, and will continue to try to recreate itself.
              """

              It may not need saying, but I will do so anyway.
              Don't ever take candy from strangers, or let an unknown application have access to your hard-disk.
              Also, if it sounds too good to be true, it is.

              ;-)

              Cheers
              PF

              --
              AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
              ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!

              Semiotx Inc. http://typeandmeaning.com
              Web Strategy Consulting Communication Design Typography

              -:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*-:-*

              Peter Fraterdeus http://www.fraterdeus.com http://www.galenaphotos.com
              Galena, Illinois http://www.alphabets.com
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            • Gerald Lange
              Heidrun In reading through that list from the search I d recommend downloading the PDF Biochemicals for the Printing Industry. This has percentages listed.
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 9 10:32 AM
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                Heidrun

                In reading through that list from the search I'd recommend downloading
                the PDF "Biochemicals for the Printing Industry." This has percentages
                listed.

                My limited experience with soy inks has not been all that
                satisfactory. I can't get the quality of presswork that I've
                experienced with other inks—I suspect that this has something to do
                with the carrier to pigment ratio in the blacks. Nor does soy ink seem
                to respond well with traditional additives, such as magnesium
                carbonate. Also, since it is considered more biodegradable than
                traditional inks I wonder about its longevity. Plus, it's a bit
                unnerving that the stuff can be washed off your hands with plain soap
                and water!!!

                Gerald

                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                >
                > Heidrun
                >
                > This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage:
                >
                >
                http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2
                >
                > Gerald
                >
                >
                >
                > In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, heidrun mumper-drumm <drummbeat@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > If you do find out the percentage, please let me know. I do know
                > that having as little as 10% soy allows the industry to state
                > 'soy-based inks,' which then qualifies as 'green washing' to my mind.
                > >
                > > Heidrun
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > >From: amy borezo <aborezo@>
                > > >Sent: Jul 8, 2007 7:58 AM
                > > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                > > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Soy update
                > > >
                > > >Heidrun,
                > > >
                > > >I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear
                > to be a
                > > >blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give
                > them a
                > > >call.
                > > >
                > > >There is definitely more research to be done. I'm finding out
                > little bits at
                > > >a time and would like to continue to do so. It would certainly be
                > > >interesting to examine the "hidden costs", if there indeed are any,
                > of using
                > > >soy inks. I suppose no one can assume anything until the research
                > has been
                > > >done.
                > > >
                > > >It is a fact that soy inks contain less VOCs, 1-3%. This is not
                > only a labor
                > > >issue, but an environmental issue, when you consider that the
                printing
                > > >industry uses 2 billion pounds of ink per year. (source
                > > >http://www.flintgrp.com/InkBackgrounder.pdf). Is that fact balanced
                > out by
                > > >some other detrimental effect to people and the environment? I
                > don't know
                > > >yet, but I will be doing more research.
                > > >
                > > >amy borezo
                > > >shelter/Books
                > > >www.shelterbooks.com
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • heidrun mumper-drumm
                I would agree with you. Making sure that I, and any letterpress or offset printer I use, uses the ink [oil or rubber base] efficiently [minimize waste] and
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 9 11:00 AM
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                  I would agree with you. Making sure that I, and any letterpress or offset printer I use, uses the ink [oil or rubber base] efficiently [minimize waste] and thoroughly [use up the can] is more important than just some soy content.

                  Heidrun

                  -----Original Message-----
                  >From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@...>
                  >Sent: Jul 9, 2007 10:32 AM
                  >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Soy update
                  >
                  >Heidrun
                  >
                  >In reading through that list from the search I'd recommend downloading
                  >the PDF "Biochemicals for the Printing Industry." This has percentages
                  >listed.
                  >
                  >My limited experience with soy inks has not been all that
                  >satisfactory. I can't get the quality of presswork that I've
                  >experienced with other inks—I suspect that this has something to do
                  >with the carrier to pigment ratio in the blacks. Nor does soy ink seem
                  >to respond well with traditional additives, such as magnesium
                  >carbonate. Also, since it is considered more biodegradable than
                  >traditional inks I wonder about its longevity. Plus, it's a bit
                  >unnerving that the stuff can be washed off your hands with plain soap
                  >and water!!!
                  >
                  >Gerald
                  >
                  >--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Heidrun
                  >>
                  >> This was at the top of the list when I Googled soybean ink percentage:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n10-11_v21/ai_13633194/pg_2
                  >>
                  >> Gerald
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, heidrun mumper-drumm <drummbeat@>
                  >> wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> > If you do find out the percentage, please let me know. I do know
                  >> that having as little as 10% soy allows the industry to state
                  >> 'soy-based inks,' which then qualifies as 'green washing' to my mind.
                  >> >
                  >> > Heidrun
                  >> >
                  >> > -----Original Message-----
                  >> > >From: amy borezo <aborezo@>
                  >> > >Sent: Jul 8, 2007 7:58 AM
                  >> > >To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  >> > >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Soy update
                  >> > >
                  >> > >Heidrun,
                  >> > >
                  >> > >I do not know the percentage of soy oil in the ink. It does appear
                  >> to be a
                  >> > >blend. The people at Gans are extremely helpful if you want to give
                  >> them a
                  >> > >call.
                  >> > >
                  >> > >There is definitely more research to be done. I'm finding out
                  >> little bits at
                  >> > >a time and would like to continue to do so. It would certainly be
                  >> > >interesting to examine the "hidden costs", if there indeed are any,
                  >> of using
                  >> > >soy inks. I suppose no one can assume anything until the research
                  >> has been
                  >> > >done.
                  >> > >
                  >> > >It is a fact that soy inks contain less VOCs, 1-3%. This is not
                  >> only a labor
                  >> > >issue, but an environmental issue, when you consider that the
                  >printing
                  >> > >industry uses 2 billion pounds of ink per year. (source
                  >> > >http://www.flintgrp.com/InkBackgrounder.pdf). Is that fact balanced
                  >> out by
                  >> > >some other detrimental effect to people and the environment? I
                  >> don't know
                  >> > >yet, but I will be doing more research.
                  >> > >
                  >> > >amy borezo
                  >> > >shelter/Books
                  >> > >www.shelterbooks.com
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> > >
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Gerald Lange
                  Actually, I ve not found any studies that indicate that soy-based ink is compatible with the letterpress process. With the legislation that has been passed and
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 9 12:25 PM
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                    Actually, I've not found any studies that indicate that soy-based ink
                    is compatible with the letterpress process. With the legislation that
                    has been passed and is pending, I wonder how long some of the older
                    and trusted inks will be available. The push toward safer working
                    conditions and concern for the environment, while admirable, doesn't
                    necessarily translate into better materials for manufacturing processes.

                    There were some studies a long while back on the chemical analysis of
                    the ink used in Gutenberg's printed work. Apparently, he took the
                    secret of it to his grave as even the subsequent printed work of Fust
                    and Schoeffer does not share the formula. The rich and enduring black
                    of the ink on the pages of the Gutenberg Bible is due to high
                    concentration of lead, presumably lead carbonate (white lead). This is
                    a highly toxic substance now banned to some extent in the manufacture
                    of paint and volatile products, though still considered a qualitative
                    ingredient.

                    As an aside: I have a book from 1909 titled The Lead and Zinc Pigments
                    that details the manufacture of white lead with many photos of the
                    processes. Those factory conditions are truly frightening, the workers
                    literally lived and breathed the stuff, no gloves, no masks; even a
                    photo of a proudly posed woman gathering the material in bare feet.
                    We've come a very long way from that.

                    Gerald

                    >
                    > I would agree with you. Making sure that I, and any letterpress or
                    offset printer I use, uses the ink [oil or rubber base] efficiently
                    [minimize waste] and thoroughly [use up the can] is more important
                    than just some soy content.
                    >
                    > Heidrun
                    >

                    > >
                    > >My limited experience with soy inks has not been all that
                    > >satisfactory. I can't get the quality of presswork that I've
                    > >experienced with other inksâ€"I suspect that this has something to do
                    > >with the carrier to pigment ratio in the blacks. Nor does soy ink seem
                    > >to respond well with traditional additives, such as magnesium
                    > >carbonate. Also, since it is considered more biodegradable than
                    > >traditional inks I wonder about its longevity. Plus, it's a bit
                    > >unnerving that the stuff can be washed off your hands with plain soap
                    > >and water!!!
                    > >
                    > >Gerald
                  • amy borezo
                    I hope one day (soon) to do a side by side comparison of soy ink with other inks. A few days ago I looked up soy on the letpress archives to see if anyone had
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 10 12:37 PM
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                      I hope one day (soon) to do a side by side comparison of soy ink with other
                      inks.

                      A few days ago I looked up soy on the letpress archives to see if anyone had
                      any printing complaints and I didn't find any.

                      It's not surprising, for many reasons, that no "studies" have been done of
                      soy's compatibility with letterpress, thus far.

                      amy
                      shelter/Books
                      www.shelterbookworks.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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