Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [PPLetterpress] Maximum 30,000 pixels?

Expand Messages
  • Peter Fraterdeus
    Why do you need to scan it at such a high resolution? Certainly not to make a printing plate for Letterpress?!? I can t imagine that this resolution is
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 11, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Why do you need to scan it at such a high resolution?

      Certainly not to make a printing plate for Letterpress?!?

      I can't imagine that this resolution is necessary...

      But perhaps you intend to enlarge this image?

      P

      >I am trying to scan a 10" x 16" document in line art at 2400dpi what should
      >give a file of 24000 pixels x 38400 pixels but the Epson 1640XL scanner and
      >also software like Adobe Photoshop 5.0LE or Corel Photo-paint 8.0 for some
      >reason refuse to accept one dimension longer than 30000 pixels in line art.
      >
      >Is this a real limitation for this kind of software or is there another way
      >to create a 10"x16" 2400dpi line art file?
      >
      >Best Regards,
      >
      >Erik Desmyter
      >erik.desmyter@...
      >
      >
      >
      >• To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
      >PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      >• Encountering problems? contact:
      >PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
      >• To unsubscribe:
      >PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


      --
      -
      AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa& @

      Peter Fraterdeus http://www.midsummernightstamps.com
      www.semiotx.com Magical Images from the Moon's Garden!

      Whatever happened to the War Against Injustice and Poverty!
      End Terrorism? End Poverty!

      "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged
      by the way its animals are treated." -- Mohandas Gandhi

      The War on Drugs Destroys Too Many Innocent Lives. Enough!
      http://www.dpf.org
    • Dan Franklin
      Hi, Erik. ... For practical purposes, it is unnecessary to scan at a resolution greater than 300 dpi for a halftone (shades of gray) image, or greater than
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 11, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi, Erik.

        >I am trying to scan a 10" x 16" document in line art at 2400dpi what
        >should give a file of 24000 pixels x 38400 pixels...

        For practical purposes, it is unnecessary to scan at a resolution
        greater than 300 dpi for a halftone (shades of gray) image, or
        greater than 1200 dpi for line art (and often 800 dpi, or even 600,
        is sufficient for line art). This assumes that you are scanning to
        the target size you contemplate in the printed piece.

        The final resolution of the output device is irrelevant here. Beyond
        the resolutions stated above, you are wasting storage space on your
        hard drive and slowing any scanning/image editing you perform--with
        absolutely no improvement in image quality.

        Dan
      • ANDREAS PRIVE
        ... Andreas Schweizer Ecomusée Voltaire Association Lettres et Images 25 rue du Vuache 1201 Genève- Switzerland T: + 41 22 340 44 10 F: + 41 22 340 44 21 P:
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 11, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Le 12.8.2002 5:11, « Dan Franklin » <dan@...> a écrit :

          > Hi, Erik.
          >
          > For practical purposes, it is unnecessary to scan at a resolution
          > greater than 300 dpi for a halftone (shades of gray) image, or
          > greater than 1200 dpi for line art (and often 800 dpi, or even 600,
          > is sufficient for line art). This assumes that you are scanning to
          > the target size you contemplate in the printed piece.
          >
          > The final resolution of the output device is irrelevant here. Beyond
          > the resolutions stated above, you are wasting storage space on your
          > hard drive and slowing any scanning/image editing you perform--with
          > absolutely no improvement in image quality.
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > 300 dpi for a halftone...
          >
          > I have the same problem as Erik,
          > I need a high scanning for continuous tone. (not halftone).
          > The aim is to generate CMYB films trought digital selection.
          > Printing a CMYB collotype print.
          >
          >

          Andreas Schweizer
          Ecomusée Voltaire
          Association Lettres et Images
          25 rue du Vuache
          1201 Genève- Switzerland
          T: + 41 22 340 44 10
          F: + 41 22 340 44 21
          P: + 41 79 304 14 64
          URL: http://www.letterpress.ch
          Work mail: andreas.schweizer@...
          Private mail: andreasschweizer@...




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gerald Lange
          Mike When you generate the PDF you would need to create a custom PDF style rather than selecting the printer style. And choose document page setup instead
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 12, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Mike

            When you generate the PDF you would need to create a custom PDF style rather
            than selecting the "printer style." And choose "document page setup" "instead
            of "same as current printer." Though as I recall you can set up a special
            Acrobat printer style for such purposes. Been a while since I've had to do this.

            I normally do not send PDFs to the service bureau. I'd be interested in
            hearing of the successes/failures that others have encountered in this regard.

            At the Adobe site there are some documents that describe setting up high
            resolution PDFs (for professional applications or something), though you do
            have to poke around a bit.

            Gerald


            Michael T Metz wrote:
            >
            > What if one is sending a pdf to the platemaker? a pdf produced
            > with Pagemaker? Does one still need to set the Document Setup
            > printer resolution so high?
            >
            > Mike
            >
            > Gerald wrote:
            >
            > Though the final imagesetter needs to read your Pagemaker or Quark
            > document at 2560 or higher, and you DO need to set this as your
            > printing resolution in the page layout program, any line art that is
            > imported into that document only needs to be at 1200dpi (camera ready
            > quality) to avoid the bitmap jaggies.
            > ...
            >
          • Mats Broberg
            ... Having worked for several years in the commercial graphic arts business, I have to disagree with this. A resolution of 600-1200 dpi is far from enough if
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 12, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              > For practical purposes, it is unnecessary to scan at a resolution
              > greater than 300 dpi for a halftone (shades of gray) image, or
              > greater than 1200 dpi for line art (and often 800 dpi, or even 600,
              > is sufficient for line art). This assumes that you are scanning to
              > the target size you contemplate in the printed piece.

              Having worked for several years in the commercial graphic arts business,
              I have to disagree with this. A resolution of 600-1200 dpi is far from
              enough if you aim for the highest quality possible in lito offset or
              letterpress.

              Traditionally, the rule of thumb has been to scan line art at a
              resolution meeting or exceeding the output resolution of the
              imagesetter, which usually is 2540 dpi. When you are working with large
              format originals, and want to avoid very heavy files, a better
              alternative than scanning is to create the the negative in the darkroom
              (which - resolution-wise - exceeds 2540 dpi many times around).

              If heavy files don't scare you away, scan the original in smaller
              pieces, and mount them together to a complete piece in Adobe Photoshop.
              It is very easy to get perfect registration if you play around with
              transparency settings when aligning the different pieces.

              Regards,
              Mats Broberg
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              ARS IMPRIMIS PRESS
              Hauptvägen 102
              SE-123 58 Farsta — Sweden
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              Telephone: +46 8 604 59 81
              http://www.arsimprimispress.com
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            • Erik Desmyter
              I am only talking about line art (not halftones) and I want to create a TIFF file. I read for example on: http://www.boxcarpress.com/photopolymer-platesl.html
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 12, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                I am only talking about line art (not halftones) and I want to create a TIFF
                file.

                I read for example on:
                http://www.boxcarpress.com/photopolymer-platesl.html
                Negatives: We can only guarantee results when using our negatives. We shoot
                camera-ready artwork or we output files at 2536 DPI (with resolutions up to
                3600 DPI available).

                Another example (magnesium or copper plates):
                http://www.owossographic.com/index2.htm
                Scanning poor copy with ragged edges will produce a file with, you guessed
                it, ragged edges. Printing it to your ink jet or laser printer may not tell
                you the whole story on the quality of the file. Here at OWOSSO, we send your
                files right to the imagesetter and spit out a film at 2400 dpi. It is not as
                forgiving as your printer. Every little jagged line will look like a jagged
                line.


                Why should a line art scan at 2400 dpi not give better results than one at
                1200 dpi? If these guys afterwards make a film at 2400 dpi why should we not
                scan immediately at 2400 dpi and clean up the file in 2400 dpi? I do not
                really care about the size of the file.

                I just do not understand why my scanner and all the softwares I have tried
                do not allow to make a TIFF file with one length longer than 2,400 dpi x
                12.5" = 30,000 dots (or pixels)??

                Erik

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Dan Franklin" <dan@...>
                To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 5:11 AM
                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Maximum 30,000 pixels?


                Hi, Erik.

                >I am trying to scan a 10" x 16" document in line art at 2400dpi what
                >should give a file of 24000 pixels x 38400 pixels...

                For practical purposes, it is unnecessary to scan at a resolution
                greater than 300 dpi for a halftone (shades of gray) image, or
                greater than 1200 dpi for line art (and often 800 dpi, or even 600,
                is sufficient for line art). This assumes that you are scanning to
                the target size you contemplate in the printed piece.

                The final resolution of the output device is irrelevant here. Beyond
                the resolutions stated above, you are wasting storage space on your
                hard drive and slowing any scanning/image editing you perform--with
                absolutely no improvement in image quality.

                Dan


                . To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                . Encountering problems? contact:
                PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                . To unsubscribe:
                PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Erik Desmyter
                ... pieces, and mount them together to a complete piece in Adobe Photoshop. I have tried this already but Adobe Photoshop did not allow in a TIFF file to
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 12, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  Mats Broberg wrote:
                  > If heavy files don't scare you away, scan the original in smaller
                  pieces, and mount them together to a complete piece in Adobe Photoshop.

                  I have tried this already but Adobe Photoshop did not allow in a TIFF file
                  to increase length (or width) above 30,000 pixels (or 12.5" x 2400 dpi)

                  Rgds,
                  Erik
                • bielerpr
                  ....Adobe Photoshop did not allow in a TIFF file to increase length (or width) above 30,000 pixels (or 12.5 x 2400 dpi) Erik I don t understand why this
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 12, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    ....Adobe Photoshop did not allow in a TIFF file to increase length
                    (or width) above 30,000 pixels (or 12.5" x 2400 dpi)

                    Erik

                    I don't understand why this should be so. I've worked with line art
                    tiff files in Photoshop at 16 x 24 inches and 1200 dpi and have never
                    encountered the limitations you are describing. I do a lot of image
                    reconstruction for institutions and fine presses etc...

                    If it helps: My usual procedure is to scan line art in grayscale at
                    600 dpi. This scan is brought into Photoshop and I double the
                    resolution to 1200dpi (you can do this once, and only once). Though
                    grayscale does quadruple the memory requirement, the active memory
                    that is required to manipulate a grayscale file is much less than
                    that required for a b/w bitmap image. Only after I have cleaned up
                    the scan to my satisfaction will I change it to a b/w bitmap and save
                    as a tiff.

                    It is often easier to work with a file in Photoshop if you save your
                    scan as a Photoshop doc rather than as a tiff. Only the finished document
                    needs to be saved as a tiff.

                    Though the final imagesetter needs to read your Pagemaker or Quark
                    document at 2560 or higher, and you DO need to set this as your
                    printing resolution in the page layout program, any line art that is
                    imported into that document only needs to be at 1200dpi (camera ready
                    quality) to avoid the bitmap jaggies.

                    Back to your initial concern. Is this perhaps a memory limitation?
                    Have you considered boosting the memory of your scanning/image-
                    editing/page layout programs as well as expanding and cleaning out
                    the scratch disk for Photoshop? And, most importantly, do you have
                    enough active RAM to handle this work? Also try working with these
                    programs in stages (one at a time rather than having them all open at
                    once), rebooting after each program is finished.

                    Gerald
                  • Katie Harper
                    Gerald makes some good recommendations for working with large files. After reading this exchange, however, I m wondering if the point is not being missed
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 12, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Gerald makes some good recommendations for working with large files. After
                      reading this exchange, however, I'm wondering if the point is not being
                      missed somewhere along the line. There are all kinds of rules of thumb for
                      scanning resolution and output resolution. What is not touched on is a) the
                      quality of the original; the quality of the scanner (many scanners will give
                      you "interpolated" resolution that sounds very high but in fact is not); and
                      finally, and most important, the quality of the final printed piece. If you
                      are going to make a plate for printing line art with letterpress, you have
                      to consider what paper you are printing on (coated v. uncoated, for
                      example); the state of the press, rollers, etc. In any printing process, all
                      such factors must be considered; because of them, and many others not
                      mentioned here, there is a point beyond which the naked eye will not be able
                      to notice the difference between 1200dpi and 2450dpi, for example, and any
                      effort to get "higher" quality will be a waste of time. My recommendation is
                      to do some tests with various resolutions (you might want to test a smaller
                      file) and print the results on your printing press or laser printer or
                      whatever output device you are planning on using, and see where the drop off
                      in quality happens. You might be surprised.


                      Katie Harper
                      Ars Brevis Press
                      Cincinnati, OH
                      513-233-9588
                      http://www.arsbrevispress.com





                      > From: "bielerpr" <bieler@...>
                      > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:16:31 -0000
                      > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Maximum 30,000 pixels?
                      >
                      > .....Adobe Photoshop did not allow in a TIFF file to increase length
                      > (or width) above 30,000 pixels (or 12.5" x 2400 dpi)
                      >
                      > Erik
                      >
                      > I don't understand why this should be so. I've worked with line art
                      > tiff files in Photoshop at 16 x 24 inches and 1200 dpi and have never
                      > encountered the limitations you are describing. I do a lot of image
                      > reconstruction for institutions and fine presses etc...
                      >
                      > If it helps: My usual procedure is to scan line art in grayscale at
                      > 600 dpi. This scan is brought into Photoshop and I double the
                      > resolution to 1200dpi (you can do this once, and only once). Though
                      > grayscale does quadruple the memory requirement, the active memory
                      > that is required to manipulate a grayscale file is much less than
                      > that required for a b/w bitmap image. Only after I have cleaned up
                      > the scan to my satisfaction will I change it to a b/w bitmap and save
                      > as a tiff.
                      >
                      > It is often easier to work with a file in Photoshop if you save your
                      > scan as a Photoshop doc rather than as a tiff. Only the finished document
                      > needs to be saved as a tiff.
                      >
                      > Though the final imagesetter needs to read your Pagemaker or Quark
                      > document at 2560 or higher, and you DO need to set this as your
                      > printing resolution in the page layout program, any line art that is
                      > imported into that document only needs to be at 1200dpi (camera ready
                      > quality) to avoid the bitmap jaggies.
                      >
                      > Back to your initial concern. Is this perhaps a memory limitation?
                      > Have you considered boosting the memory of your scanning/image-
                      > editing/page layout programs as well as expanding and cleaning out
                      > the scratch disk for Photoshop? And, most importantly, do you have
                      > enough active RAM to handle this work? Also try working with these
                      > programs in stages (one at a time rather than having them all open at
                      > once), rebooting after each program is finished.
                      >
                      > Gerald
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > • To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                      > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      > • Encountering problems? contact:
                      > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                      > • To unsubscribe:
                      > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                    • Michael T Metz
                      What if one is sending a pdf to the platemaker? a pdf produced with Pagemaker? Does one still need to set the Document Setup printer resolution so high? Mike
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 12, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment
                        What if one is sending a pdf to the platemaker? a pdf produced
                        with Pagemaker? Does one still need to set the Document Setup
                        printer resolution so high?

                        Mike


                        Gerald wrote:

                        Though the final imagesetter needs to read your Pagemaker or Quark
                        document at 2560 or higher, and you DO need to set this as your
                        printing resolution in the page layout program, any line art that is
                        imported into that document only needs to be at 1200dpi (camera ready
                        quality) to avoid the bitmap jaggies.
                        ...




                        • To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                        PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        • Encountering problems? contact:
                        PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                        • To unsubscribe:
                        PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • Erik Desmyter
                        ... length (or width) above 30,000 pixels (or 12.5 x 2400 dpi) ... line art tiff files in Photoshop at 16 x 24 inches and 1200 dpi and have never encountered
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 13, 2002
                        • 0 Attachment
                          >>....Adobe Photoshop did not allow in a TIFF file to increase
                          length (or width) above 30,000 pixels (or 12.5" x 2400 dpi)

                          >..........I don't understand why this should be so. I've worked with
                          line art tiff files in Photoshop at 16 x 24 inches and 1200 dpi and
                          have never encountered the limitations you are describing.

                          I would guess the reason is 24 inch x 1200 dpi = 28800 what is less than the
                          30000 pixels maximum that I encountered.

                          Erik
                        • Erik Desmyter
                          ... 600 dpi. This scan is brought into Photoshop and I double the resolution to 1200dpi I guess you also do this because your scanner has a maximal optical
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 13, 2002
                          • 0 Attachment
                            > My usual procedure is to scan line art in grayscale at
                            600 dpi. This scan is brought into Photoshop and I double the
                            resolution to 1200dpi

                            I guess you also do this because your scanner has a maximal optical
                            resolution of 600dpi?
                            I use an Epson 1640XL scanner that has an optical resolution of 1600dpi x
                            3200dpi with A3 paperformat (16.5"x11.7") and I scan in line art at such
                            high resolutions.

                            My experience is that a lineart scan at 2400 dpi gives a better result than
                            one at 1200 dpi that is afterwards doubled (or a 600 dpi x 4) in Photoshop.
                            I do agree with all the comments about memory space, avoiding bitmap
                            jaggies, won't see difference with the eye, losing more quality with all the
                            other steps too, etc... but if the imagesetters or films are made at
                            resolutions of 2400 or higher for quality reasons and you can go for that
                            immediately in the scanning step then you have one step in the process that
                            has nearly no loss of quality.

                            Erik
                          • bielerpr
                            ... Actually, no. I need to be able to work with the image, drop out page material (foxing, show-through, etc), correct ink spread and errant presswork, and
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 13, 2002
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In PPLetterpress@y..., "Erik Desmyter" <erik.desmyter@s...>
                              wrote:
                              > > My usual procedure is to scan line art in grayscale at
                              > 600 dpi. This scan is brought into Photoshop and I double the
                              > resolution to 1200dpi
                              >
                              > I guess you also do this because your scanner has a maximal optical
                              > resolution of 600dpi?
                              > I use an Epson 1640XL scanner that has an optical resolution of 1600dpi x
                              > 3200dpi with A3 paperformat (16.5"x11.7") and I scan in line art at such
                              > high resolutions.
                              >
                              > My experience is that a lineart scan at 2400 dpi gives a better result than
                              > one at 1200 dpi that is afterwards doubled (or a 600 dpi x 4) in Photoshop.
                              > I do agree with all the comments about memory space, avoiding bitmap
                              > jaggies, won't see difference with the eye, losing more quality with all the
                              > other steps too, etc... but if the imagesetters or films are made at
                              > resolutions of 2400 or higher for quality reasons and you can go for that
                              > immediately in the scanning step then you have one step in the process that
                              > has nearly no loss of quality.
                              >
                              > Erik

                              Actually, no. I need to be able to work with the image, drop out page
                              material (foxing, show-through, etc), correct ink spread and errant
                              presswork, and the like. In some cases, adjusting line widths to
                              match other similar images. So I need to work in grayscale. These
                              things are quite difficult to correct if you are working with a
                              bitmap (b/w line art) image.

                              The higher the resolution the more difficult it is to work with an
                              image, especially if you might later need to use it as a halftone
                              (which doesn't require much "information" at all ([2x lpi]). In most
                              cases, you really don't need all the "data" that a higher resolution
                              scan will bring in.

                              I'm not working with color though so perhaps then you might?

                              Perhaps because very few laser printers can run at 2400 there has
                              been felt no need for it (in terms of images, and proofing). I really
                              can't tell the difference between a 1200 and 2400 image at the
                              printing (letterpress) end, except for type, which is rendered quite
                              differently.

                              Gerald
                            • Mats Broberg
                              ... Well, whether or not the eye can see the difference or not is not the issue. The reason you d want to scan with a resolution as high as possible is due to
                              Message 14 of 24 , Aug 14, 2002
                              • 0 Attachment
                                > because of them, and many others not mentioned here, there is
                                > a point beyond which the naked eye will not be able to notice
                                > the difference between 1200dpi and 2450dpi, for example, and
                                > any effort to get "higher" quality will be a waste of time.

                                Well, whether or not the eye can see the difference or not is not the
                                issue. The reason you'd want to scan with a resolution as high as
                                possible is due to the issue of loss of quality between the generations
                                of the artwork - i.e. original artwork - scanning - imagesetting -
                                platemaking - impression etc.

                                Regards,
                                Mats Broberg
                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                ARS IMPRIMIS PRESS
                                Hauptvägen 102
                                SE-123 58 Farsta — Sweden
                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                Telephone: +46 8 604 59 81
                                http://www.arsimprimispress.com
                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              • Mats Broberg
                                ... I always send high-end PDF files to the service bureau, and have had no problem whatsoever. However, it does require a custom *.joboptions file with no
                                Message 15 of 24 , Aug 14, 2002
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  > I normally do not send PDFs to the service bureau. I'd be
                                  > interested in hearing of the successes/failures that others
                                  > have encountered in this regard.

                                  I always send high-end PDF files to the service bureau, and have had no
                                  problem whatsoever.

                                  However, it does require a custom *.joboptions file with no compression
                                  and complete inclusion of all typefaces.

                                  Regards,
                                  Mats Broberg
                                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                  ARS IMPRIMIS PRESS
                                  Hauptvägen 102
                                  SE-123 58 Farsta — Sweden
                                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                  Telephone: +46 8 604 59 81
                                  http://www.arsimprimispress.com
                                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                • Mats Broberg
                                  ... By re-sampling the resolution? Beware! Resampling the resolution in Photoshop - or any other software - is nothing else than having these software guess
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Aug 14, 2002
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > > My usual procedure is to scan line art in grayscale at
                                    > 600 dpi. This scan is brought into Photoshop and I double the
                                    > resolution to 1200dpi

                                    By re-sampling the resolution? Beware! Resampling the resolution in
                                    Photoshop - or any other software - is nothing else than having these
                                    software guess the statistically most plausible distribution of pixels.

                                    It is one thing to scan with an optical resolution of 600 dpi and then
                                    double the resolution in Photoshop to 1200 dpi, and a completely
                                    different thing to scan with an optical resolution of 1200 dpi in the
                                    first place.

                                    Regards,
                                    Mats Broberg
                                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                    ARS IMPRIMIS PRESS
                                    Hauptvägen 102
                                    SE-123 58 Farsta — Sweden
                                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                    Telephone: +46 8 604 59 81
                                    http://www.arsimprimispress.com
                                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                  • bielerpr
                                    ... Mats I d certainly agree with what you have to say here, however, I believe Katie s point in making this statement is quite valid. It is the letterpress
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Aug 14, 2002
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      --- In PPLetterpress@y..., "Mats Broberg" <mats.broberg@a...> wrote:
                                      > > because of them, and many others not mentioned here, there is
                                      > > a point beyond which the naked eye will not be able to notice
                                      > > the difference between 1200dpi and 2450dpi, for example, and
                                      > > any effort to get "higher" quality will be a waste of time.
                                      >
                                      > Well, whether or not the eye can see the difference or not is not the
                                      > issue. The reason you'd want to scan with a resolution as high as
                                      > possible is due to the issue of loss of quality between the generations
                                      > of the artwork - i.e. original artwork - scanning - imagesetting -
                                      > platemaking - impression etc.
                                      >
                                      > Regards,
                                      > Mats Broberg

                                      Mats

                                      I'd certainly agree with what you have to say here, however, I
                                      believe Katie's point in making this statement is quite valid. It is
                                      the letterpress printed page that must be kept in mind as we are
                                      working through this process. It has its own requirements that have
                                      nothing to do with digital technology. To completely rely on
                                      advancing technology does to some extent remove us from our purpose
                                      if we do not at the same time retain our focus. A 2400dpi image (and
                                      the ability to generate it) is not better than a 1200dpi image if it
                                      wrongly leads us to not consider other possibilities. It is not only
                                      useful to have the right tools (or, in the context of this thread,
                                      should I say best, or better than?), it is useful to know how to use
                                      tools.

                                      A friend of mine had to give a digital demonstration of page layout
                                      to a group and the system failed. She immediately dragged out pencil
                                      and paper and demonstrated page layout. Quite frankly, I doubt many
                                      graphic desigers today could do that.

                                      Gerald
                                    • bielerpr
                                      ... Hi again I suspect you are quite right about this, and I d agree, but in regard to re-sampling, I have not discerned a loss of detail. Though I m not
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Aug 15, 2002
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In PPLetterpress@y..., "Mats Broberg" <mats.broberg@a...> wrote:
                                        > > > My usual procedure is to scan line art in grayscale at
                                        > > 600 dpi. This scan is brought into Photoshop and I double the
                                        > > resolution to 1200dpi
                                        >
                                        > By re-sampling the resolution? Beware! Resampling the resolution in
                                        > Photoshop - or any other software - is nothing else than having these
                                        > software guess the statistically most plausible distribution of pixels.
                                        >
                                        > It is one thing to scan with an optical resolution of 600 dpi and then
                                        > double the resolution in Photoshop to 1200 dpi, and a completely
                                        > different thing to scan with an optical resolution of 1200 dpi in the
                                        > first place.
                                        >
                                        > Regards,
                                        > Mats Broberg


                                        Hi again

                                        I suspect you are quite right about this, and I'd agree, but in
                                        regard to re-sampling, I have not discerned a loss of detail. Though
                                        I'm not certain,

                                        for the sake of argument,

                                        why we should trust (re: "Beware!") software at higher dpi than we would
                                        at lower dpi. Why should we trust, or not trust, any of it? Ten years from
                                        now should we have not trusted 2400dpi? I am really not trying to act the
                                        part of the Luddite here but quite frankly, digital technology went beyond
                                        our basic needs about a half a decade ago.

                                        Gerald
                                      • Mats Broberg
                                        ... Oh come on, Gerald! You spend hours in front of the monitor writing and posting e-mails about the most minuscule details of finer letterpress typography -
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Aug 15, 2002
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          > why we should trust (re: "Beware!") software at higher dpi
                                          > than we would
                                          > at lower dpi. Why should we trust, or not trust, any of it?
                                          > Ten years from
                                          > now should we have not trusted 2400dpi? I am really not
                                          > trying to act the
                                          > part of the Luddite here but quite frankly, digital
                                          > technology went beyond
                                          > our basic needs about a half a decade ago.

                                          Oh come on, Gerald!

                                          You spend hours in front of the monitor writing and posting e-mails
                                          about the most minuscule details of finer letterpress typography - such
                                          as ink traps and tweaking typefaces and artwork with regards to ink
                                          squeeze - and they you say that digital technology went BEYOND our basic
                                          needs 50 years ago?

                                          Regards,
                                          Mats Broberg
                                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                          ARS IMPRIMIS PRESS
                                          Hauptvägen 102
                                          SE-123 58 Farsta — Sweden
                                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                          Telephone: +46 8 604 59 81
                                          http://www.arsimprimispress.com
                                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                        • bielerpr
                                          ... Mats A decade is a period of ten years. Gerald
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Aug 15, 2002
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In PPLetterpress@y..., "Mats Broberg" <mats.broberg@a...> wrote:
                                            > > why we should trust (re: "Beware!") software at higher dpi
                                            > > than we would
                                            > > at lower dpi. Why should we trust, or not trust, any of it?
                                            > > Ten years from
                                            > > now should we have not trusted 2400dpi? I am really not
                                            > > trying to act the
                                            > > part of the Luddite here but quite frankly, digital
                                            > > technology went beyond
                                            > > our basic needs about a half a decade ago.
                                            >
                                            > Oh come on, Gerald!
                                            >
                                            > You spend hours in front of the monitor writing and posting e-mails
                                            > about the most minuscule details of finer letterpress typography - such
                                            > as ink traps and tweaking typefaces and artwork with regards to ink
                                            > squeeze - and they you say that digital technology went BEYOND our basic
                                            > needs 50 years ago?
                                            >
                                            > Regards,
                                            > Mats Broberg


                                            Mats

                                            A decade is a period of ten years.

                                            Gerald
                                          • ANDREAS PRIVE
                                            ... http://www.danburkholder.com/Pages/misc_pages/digital_neg_faq.htm#GeneralNeg Questions Andreas Schweizer 8, rue de la Puiserande 1205 Genève- Switzerland
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Sep 22, 2002
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Le 12.8.2002 19:15, « Gerald Lange » <bieler@...> a écrit :

                                              > Mike
                                              >
                                              > When you generate the PDF you would need to create a custom PDF style rather
                                              > than selecting the "printer style." And choose "document page setup" "instead
                                              > of "same as current printer." Though as I recall you can set up a special
                                              > Acrobat printer style for such purposes. Been a while since I've had to do
                                              > this.
                                              >
                                              > I normally do not send PDFs to the service bureau. I'd be interested in
                                              > hearing of the successes/failures that others have encountered in this regard.
                                              >
                                              > At the Adobe site there are some documents that describe setting up high
                                              > resolution PDFs (for professional applications or something), though you do
                                              > have to poke around a bit.
                                              >
                                              > Gerald
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Here an information about 30¹000 Photoshop limitation
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > What Happened to Icefields Software?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Many have written about the disappearance of Isis Corporation and their
                                              > wonderful Icefields stochastic screening software. One of Icefields¹
                                              > advantages was it¹s ability to bypass Photoshop¹s 30,000 pixel limit (in
                                              > either width or height) that can become an issue when converting grayscale
                                              > images to bitmaps at 1,200 or more pixels/inch. Isis hopes to rise like the
                                              > Phoenix in the future so they don¹t want older versions of their software
                                              > distributed for free.
                                              >
                                              > In the mean time, you might investigate Rastus Software as a stochastic
                                              > screening alternative:
                                              http://www.danburkholder.com/Pages/misc_pages/digital_neg_faq.htm#GeneralNeg
                                              Questions

                                              Andreas Schweizer
                                              8, rue de la Puiserande
                                              1205 Genève- Switzerland
                                              T: + 41 22 320 56 28
                                              F: + 41 22 320 56 28
                                              P: + 41 79 304 14 64
                                              URL: http://www.letterpress.ch
                                              Work mail: andreas.schweizer@...
                                              Private mail: andreasschweizer@...




                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Gerald Lange
                                              ... Andreas Thanks for this. Someone had mentioned Icefields early on and I used it for a just a short while but then I had a horrible system crash and it did
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Sep 22, 2002
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                > >
                                                > > What Happened to Icefields Software?
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Many have written about the disappearance of Isis Corporation and their
                                                > > wonderful Icefields stochastic screening software. One of Icefields1
                                                > > advantages was it1s ability to bypass Photoshop1s 30,000 pixel limit (in
                                                > > either width or height) that can become an issue when converting grayscale
                                                > > images to bitmaps at 1,200 or more pixels/inch. Isis hopes to rise like the
                                                > > Phoenix in the future so they don1t want older versions of their software
                                                > > distributed for free.
                                                > >
                                                > > In the mean time, you might investigate Rastus Software as a stochastic
                                                > > screening alternative:
                                                > http://www.danburkholder.com/Pages/misc_pages/digital_neg_faq.htm#GeneralNeg
                                                > Questions
                                                >
                                                > Andreas Schweizer

                                                Andreas

                                                Thanks for this. Someone had mentioned Icefields early on and I used
                                                it for a just a short while but then I had a horrible system crash
                                                and it did not survive. Even when reinstalled. Just sort of sits
                                                there upon opening. Some remnant bugger in the the system file gone
                                                bad, won't copy over, and I just have't been able to identify it.
                                                Have the same problem with Ofoto scanning software. That was great
                                                stuff, and I dearly miss it. Another company long gone.

                                                I'll check out the Rastus.

                                                All best

                                                Gerald
                                              • The Indian Hill Press
                                                I downloaded the Rastus Demo yesterday and gave it a quick try. It s easy to use, but my cursory tests yielded an odd moire-like pattern in the dots, a subtle
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Sep 23, 2002
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  I downloaded the Rastus Demo yesterday and gave it a quick try.

                                                  It's easy to use, but my cursory tests yielded an odd moire-like
                                                  pattern in the dots, a subtle but noticeable succession of
                                                  checker-like dark and light areas throughout the image, most evident
                                                  at high resolutions or when viewed from a distance. I'd be curious to
                                                  know if anyone else has tried this, and what their experience has
                                                  been.

                                                  As an alternative, does anyone have a favorite "mezzotint" plug-in
                                                  for Photoshop?

                                                  Dan Waters
                                                  Indian Hill Press

                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > What Happened to Icefields Software?
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Many have written about the disappearance of Isis Corporation and their
                                                  > > > wonderful Icefields stochastic screening software. One of Icefields1
                                                  > > > advantages was it1s ability to bypass Photoshop1s 30,000 pixel limit (in
                                                  > > > either width or height) that can become an issue when
                                                  >converting grayscale
                                                  > > > images to bitmaps at 1,200 or more pixels/inch. Isis hopes to
                                                  >rise like the
                                                  > > > Phoenix in the future so they don1t want older versions of their software
                                                  > > > distributed for free.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > In the mean time, you might investigate Rastus Software as a stochastic
                                                  > > > screening alternative:
                                                  > >
                                                  >http://www.danburkholder.com/Pages/misc_pages/digital_neg_faq.htm#Gene
                                                  >ralNeg
                                                  > > Questions
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Andreas Schweizer
                                                  >
                                                  >Andreas
                                                  >
                                                  >Thanks for this. Someone had mentioned Icefields early on and I used
                                                  >it for a just a short while but then I had a horrible system crash
                                                  >and it did not survive. Even when reinstalled. Just sort of sits
                                                  >there upon opening. Some remnant bugger in the the system file gone
                                                  >bad, won't copy over, and I just have't been able to identify it.
                                                  >Have the same problem with Ofoto scanning software. That was great
                                                  >stuff, and I dearly miss it. Another company long gone.
                                                  >
                                                  >I'll check out the Rastus.
                                                  >
                                                  >All best
                                                  >
                                                  >Gerald
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >• To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                                                  >PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >• Encountering problems? contact:
                                                  >PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >• To unsubscribe:
                                                  >PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >
                                                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.