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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Ghosting on Vandercook with PP plate

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  • Gerald Lange
    Hi Eileen Yes, I mean re-do. I m not sure what the difference in base height between the standard Boxcar and the Deep Relief is. You d probably be looking at
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 22, 2007
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      Hi Eileen

      Yes, I mean re-do.

      I'm not sure what the difference in base height between the standard
      Boxcar and the Deep Relief is. You'd probably be looking at between .020
      and .022. I've been recommending acetate sheets (that are marked as to
      thickness) for underlay. Most art supply stores carry these. Main thing
      with underlays is that they really have to be clean and without bends,
      buckling, etc.

      Something that came up a while back makes me ask this as well. Have you
      changed the cylinder packing? If it is marked from previous jobs or even
      as the result of adjustments on this job, it could cause problems with
      the printed image.

      Another thing that comes to mind with the polyester-backed plates is the
      condition of the adhesive; any stretching, crinkling, dust, dirt, air
      bubbles, and the like could cause these problems. I recommend that folks
      keep an extra supply on hand just in case. Boxcar does sell film
      adhesive as a stand-alone purchase.

      I think that, as you say, the rollers were okay when printing type, they
      are likely okay. The formula (oil based or rubber based) for the ink
      would not matter if you were having success with it previously.

      Gerald
      http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

      Eileen Callahan wrote:
      > Hi Gerald -
      >
      > If by "regenerating" you mean "re-do" the plate,
      > that's on the agenda before the next time we try.
      > The "planing" of the base (metal: Boxcar base)
      > was too loose a term. I meant that we made sure
      > make sure it was securely flat on the bed.
      >
      > We are using the Deep Relief base, but the plate
      > was made for the standard base, so we were
      > advised to use an underlay of red-board. We did
      > so, but it was not enough, and ended up using
      > sheets of paper as well. Everything seemed flat,
      > and even to the shape of the base.
      >
      > BUT: Could THIS be accounting for what happened
      > in some way? something we couldn't compensate for?
      >
      > (PS- The plate will be redone at the correct thickness.)
      >
      > Bearers come next: we were just too tired to go
      > on. Given the age of the rollers, perhaps this
      > will help.
      >
      > Shall we switch to oil-based rather than
      > rubber-based, as a step in the right direction to
      > help?
      >
      > Any advice would be deeply appreciated.
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Eileen
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >> Eileen
      >>
      >> Have you tried regenerating the plate? this would at least eliminate
      >> that variable?
      >>
      >> I'm wondering about that "planed down the base" thing though. What
      >> kind of base are you using? Wood? If so, wood bases and photopolymer
      >> do not do well together. Photopolymer plates conform a bit too well to
      >> what is actually underneath them—especially polyester-backed plates);
      >> glues, adhesives, air bubbles, base materials of questionable density,
      >> less than precision underlays, base surface abrasion, dirt, etc.
      >>
      >> Plus, I'd suggest "bearers" (inking roller supports) as a matter of
      >> course, rather than an after thought.
      >>
      >> Gerald
      >> <http://BielerPress.blogspot.com>http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
      >>
      >>
      >>> I have a problem with printing a photopolymer plate on a Vandercook
      >>> 219. This is our first plate using ONLY type, although we have done
      >>> other plates of illustrations, and not had this problem.
      >>>
      >>> To wit:
      >>>
      >>> The letters print badly, with a couple of symptoms: Overall, the
      >>> letters are OK or light in the center, but then have an "outline" of
      >>> ink around the whole of the letter form. Looks smushy. We also
      >>> experience some some letters printing lightly while letters on either
      >>> side (say, in the word "move" the "o" prints too light and the other
      >>> letters print OK, or too dark, but still with the dark outline. ).
      >>>
      >>> We took off ink, adjusted rollers, moved the form from what we know
      >>> to be a "low spot" on the bed, used metal furniture, planed down the
      >>> base, used make-ready under the base, and we were just about to put
      >>> on bearers when we gave up for the day.
      >>>
      >>> The rollers are due to be recovered at the end of the semester and I
      >>> know they wiggle a bit as well because the bushings are worn.
      >>>
      >>> BUT : we've been printing metal type and zinc, magnesium and lino
      >>> blocks without this problem.
      >>>
      >>> Could this all be related to a bad plate ? Or to the age of the
      >>> rollers? Or the combination? If so, what should we do here to solve
      >>> this problem? (we can't get the rollers recovered today: but will be
      >>> doing so. And replacing the bushings as well.)
      >>>
      >>> BUT RIGHT NOW: what can we do?
      >>>
      >>> Thanks,
      >>>
      >>> Eileen
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> --
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> "Work as though you were in the
      >>> early days of a Better Nation."
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> "
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
    • Gerald Lange
      Eileen I dug up the specs I had for the standard Boxcar base and it is .876. Add to this the film adhesive interlay of .004. Subtract the thickness of the thin
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 22, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Eileen

        I dug up the specs I had for the standard Boxcar base and it is .876.
        Add to this the film adhesive interlay of .004. Subtract the thickness
        of the thin plate you are using from the thick plate the base is
        configured for and this should be the correct thickness for the underlay.

        Gerald
        http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Lange <Bieler@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Eileen
        >
        > Yes, I mean re-do.
        >
        > I'm not sure what the difference in base height between the standard
        > Boxcar and the Deep Relief is. You'd probably be looking at between
        .020
        > and .022. I've been recommending acetate sheets (that are marked as to
        > thickness) for underlay. Most art supply stores carry these. Main thing
        > with underlays is that they really have to be clean and without bends,
        > buckling, etc.
        >
        > Something that came up a while back makes me ask this as well. Have you
        > changed the cylinder packing? If it is marked from previous jobs or
        even
        > as the result of adjustments on this job, it could cause problems with
        > the printed image.
        >
        > Another thing that comes to mind with the polyester-backed plates is
        the
        > condition of the adhesive; any stretching, crinkling, dust, dirt, air
        > bubbles, and the like could cause these problems. I recommend that
        folks
        > keep an extra supply on hand just in case. Boxcar does sell film
        > adhesive as a stand-alone purchase.
        >
        > I think that, as you say, the rollers were okay when printing type,
        they
        > are likely okay. The formula (oil based or rubber based) for the ink
        > would not matter if you were having success with it previously.
        >
        > Gerald
        > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
        >
        > Eileen Callahan wrote:
        > > Hi Gerald -
        > >
        > > If by "regenerating" you mean "re-do" the plate,
        > > that's on the agenda before the next time we try.
        > > The "planing" of the base (metal: Boxcar base)
        > > was too loose a term. I meant that we made sure
        > > make sure it was securely flat on the bed.
        > >
        > > We are using the Deep Relief base, but the plate
        > > was made for the standard base, so we were
        > > advised to use an underlay of red-board. We did
        > > so, but it was not enough, and ended up using
        > > sheets of paper as well. Everything seemed flat,
        > > and even to the shape of the base.
        > >
        > > BUT: Could THIS be accounting for what happened
        > > in some way? something we couldn't compensate for?
        > >
        > > (PS- The plate will be redone at the correct thickness.)
        > >
        > > Bearers come next: we were just too tired to go
        > > on. Given the age of the rollers, perhaps this
        > > will help.
        > >
        > > Shall we switch to oil-based rather than
        > > rubber-based, as a step in the right direction to
        > > help?
        > >
        > > Any advice would be deeply appreciated.
        > >
        > > Thanks,
        > >
        > > Eileen
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >> Eileen
        > >>
        > >> Have you tried regenerating the plate? this would at least eliminate
        > >> that variable?
        > >>
        > >> I'm wondering about that "planed down the base" thing though. What
        > >> kind of base are you using? Wood? If so, wood bases and photopolymer
        > >> do not do well together. Photopolymer plates conform a bit too
        well to
        > >> what is actually underneath them—especially polyester-backed plates);
        > >> glues, adhesives, air bubbles, base materials of questionable
        density,
        > >> less than precision underlays, base surface abrasion, dirt, etc.
        > >>
        > >> Plus, I'd suggest "bearers" (inking roller supports) as a matter of
        > >> course, rather than an after thought.
        > >>
        > >> Gerald
        > >> <http://BielerPress.blogspot.com>http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>> I have a problem with printing a photopolymer plate on a Vandercook
        > >>> 219. This is our first plate using ONLY type, although we have done
        > >>> other plates of illustrations, and not had this problem.
        > >>>
        > >>> To wit:
        > >>>
        > >>> The letters print badly, with a couple of symptoms: Overall, the
        > >>> letters are OK or light in the center, but then have an
        "outline" of
        > >>> ink around the whole of the letter form. Looks smushy. We also
        > >>> experience some some letters printing lightly while letters on
        either
        > >>> side (say, in the word "move" the "o" prints too light and the
        other
        > >>> letters print OK, or too dark, but still with the dark outline. ).
        > >>>
        > >>> We took off ink, adjusted rollers, moved the form from what we know
        > >>> to be a "low spot" on the bed, used metal furniture, planed
        down the
        > >>> base, used make-ready under the base, and we were just about to put
        > >>> on bearers when we gave up for the day.
        > >>>
        > >>> The rollers are due to be recovered at the end of the semester
        and I
        > >>> know they wiggle a bit as well because the bushings are worn.
        > >>>
        > >>> BUT : we've been printing metal type and zinc, magnesium and lino
        > >>> blocks without this problem.
        > >>>
        > >>> Could this all be related to a bad plate ? Or to the age of the
        > >>> rollers? Or the combination? If so, what should we do here to solve
        > >>> this problem? (we can't get the rollers recovered today: but
        will be
        > >>> doing so. And replacing the bushings as well.)
        > >>>
        > >>> BUT RIGHT NOW: what can we do?
        > >>>
        > >>> Thanks,
        > >>>
        > >>> Eileen
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>> --
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>> "Work as though you were in the
        > >>> early days of a Better Nation."
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>> "
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Eileen Callahan
        Thanks, Gerald for all the help. I think the suggestion of changing the tympan makes absolute sense - and we never thought of it. THANK YOU: A bit of
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 23, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks, Gerald for all the help. I think the
          suggestion of changing the tympan makes absolute
          sense - and we never thought of it. THANK YOU:
          A bit of trouble-shooting left out of the
          equation. As in all things letterpress, a
          little-step by little-step in trouble shooting is
          essential. And essential to have pals in the
          community to add their thinking along the way. A
          real help.

          The plate is being re-made, I believe, today or
          tomorrow. I'll let you know what happens.

          Thanks!

          Eileen




          >Eileen
          >
          >I dug up the specs I had for the standard Boxcar base and it is .876.
          >Add to this the film adhesive interlay of .004. Subtract the thickness
          >of the thin plate you are using from the thick plate the base is
          >configured for and this should be the correct thickness for the underlay.
          >
          >Gerald
          ><http://BielerPress.blogspot.com>http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
          >
          >--- In
          ><mailto:PPLetterpress%40yahoogroups.com>PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com,
          >Gerald Lange <Bieler@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> Hi Eileen
          >>
          >> Yes, I mean re-do.
          >>
          >> I'm not sure what the difference in base height between the standard
          >> Boxcar and the Deep Relief is. You'd probably be looking at between
          >.020
          >> and .022. I've been recommending acetate sheets (that are marked as to
          >> thickness) for underlay. Most art supply stores carry these. Main thing
          >> with underlays is that they really have to be clean and without bends,
          >> buckling, etc.
          >>
          >> Something that came up a while back makes me ask this as well. Have you
          >> changed the cylinder packing? If it is marked from previous jobs or
          >even
          >> as the result of adjustments on this job, it could cause problems with
          >> the printed image.
          >>
          >> Another thing that comes to mind with the polyester-backed plates is
          >the
          >> condition of the adhesive; any stretching, crinkling, dust, dirt, air
          >> bubbles, and the like could cause these problems. I recommend that
          >folks
          >> keep an extra supply on hand just in case. Boxcar does sell film
          >> adhesive as a stand-alone purchase.
          >>
          >> I think that, as you say, the rollers were okay when printing type,
          >they
          >> are likely okay. The formula (oil based or rubber based) for the ink
          >> would not matter if you were having success with it previously.
          >>
          >> Gerald
          >> <http://BielerPress.blogspot.com>http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
          >>
          >> Eileen Callahan wrote:
          >> > Hi Gerald -
          >> >
          >> > If by "regenerating" you mean "re-do" the plate,
          >> > that's on the agenda before the next time we try.
          >> > The "planing" of the base (metal: Boxcar base)
          >> > was too loose a term. I meant that we made sure
          >> > make sure it was securely flat on the bed.
          >> >
          > > > We are using the Deep Relief base, but the plate
          > > > was made for the standard base, so we were
          > > > advised to use an underlay of red-board. We did
          > > > so, but it was not enough, and ended up using
          >> > sheets of paper as well. Everything seemed flat,
          >> > and even to the shape of the base.
          >> >
          >> > BUT: Could THIS be accounting for what happened
          >> > in some way? something we couldn't compensate for?
          >> >
          >> > (PS- The plate will be redone at the correct thickness.)
          >> >
          >> > Bearers come next: we were just too tired to go
          >> > on. Given the age of the rollers, perhaps this
          >> > will help.
          >> >
          >> > Shall we switch to oil-based rather than
          >> > rubber-based, as a step in the right direction to
          >> > help?
          >> >
          >> > Any advice would be deeply appreciated.
          >> >
          >> > Thanks,
          >> >
          >> > Eileen
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >> Eileen
          >> >>
          >> >> Have you tried regenerating the plate? this would at least eliminate
          >> >> that variable?
          >> >>
          >> >> I'm wondering about that "planed down the base" thing though. What
          >> >> kind of base are you using? Wood? If so, wood bases and photopolymer
          >> >> do not do well together. Photopolymer plates conform a bit too
          >well to
          >> >> what is actually underneath them—especially polyester-backed plates);
          >> >> glues, adhesives, air bubbles, base materials of questionable
          >density,
          >> >> less than precision underlays, base surface abrasion, dirt, etc.
          > > >>
          >> >> Plus, I'd suggest "bearers" (inking roller supports) as a matter of
          >> >> course, rather than an after thought.
          >> >>
          >> >> Gerald
          >> >>
          >><<http://BielerPress.blogspot.com>http://BielerPress.blogspot.com><http://BielerPress.blogspot.com>http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
          >> >>
          >> >>
          >> >>> I have a problem with printing a photopolymer plate on a Vandercook
          >> >>> 219. This is our first plate using ONLY type, although we have done
          >> >>> other plates of illustrations, and not had this problem.
          >> >>>
          >> >>> To wit:
          >> >>>
          >> >>> The letters print badly, with a couple of symptoms: Overall, the
          >> >>> letters are OK or light in the center, but then have an
          >"outline" of
          >> >>> ink around the whole of the letter form. Looks smushy. We also
          >> >>> experience some some letters printing lightly while letters on
          >either
          >> >>> side (say, in the word "move" the "o" prints too light and the
          >other
          >> >>> letters print OK, or too dark, but still with the dark outline. ).
          >> >>>
          >> >>> We took off ink, adjusted rollers, moved the form from what we know
          >> >>> to be a "low spot" on the bed, used metal furniture, planed
          >down the
          >> >>> base, used make-ready under the base, and we were just about to put
          >> >>> on bearers when we gave up for the day.
          >> >>>
          >> >>> The rollers are due to be recovered at the end of the semester
          >and I
          >> >>> know they wiggle a bit as well because the bushings are worn.
          >> >>>
          >> >>> BUT : we've been printing metal type and zinc, magnesium and lino
          >> >>> blocks without this problem.
          >> >>>
          >> >>> Could this all be related to a bad plate ? Or to the age of the
          >> >>> rollers? Or the combination? If so, what should we do here to solve
          >> >>> this problem? (we can't get the rollers recovered today: but
          >will be
          >> >>> doing so. And replacing the bushings as well.)
          >> >>>
          >> >>> BUT RIGHT NOW: what can we do?
          >> >>>
          >> >>> Thanks,
          >> >>>
          >> >>> Eileen
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>> --
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>> "Work as though you were in the
          >> >>> early days of a Better Nation."
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>> "
          >> >>>
          >> >>>
          >> >>
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >>
          >
          >


          --






          "Work as though you were in the
          early days of a Better Nation."











          "

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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