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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Boxcar Base

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  • Allison Chapman
    To the earlier question regarding the deep relief bases: I have been happy with the standard Boxcar base on my platen press. I haven t run into any
    Message 1 of 28 , Apr 1, 2007
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      To the earlier question regarding the deep relief bases:

      I have been happy with the standard Boxcar base on my platen press. I
      haven't run into any difficulties yet. I like the convenience of using the
      smaller base on my Vandercook as well.

      Allison Chapman
      Igloo Press


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Harold Kyle
      Thanks to everyone who shared their Boxcar Base experience. It s nice to start the week this way! We ve sold many 13x19 bases to SP-15 users. ... Fritz: It s
      Message 2 of 28 , Apr 2, 2007
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        Thanks to everyone who shared their Boxcar Base experience. It's nice
        to start the week this way!

        We've sold many 13x19 bases to SP-15 users.

        On Mar 31, 2007, at 3:25 PM, nagraph1 wrote:
        > but I seriouly question the reasoning behind filling up the
        > bed of any press with a base that taxes the physical limits of the
        > bed. My recommendation is to get two bases that will be the same size
        > that can be used individually or in tandem if required for a large
        > plate.

        Fritz: It's easy to imagine a 13x19 form with light coverage (or
        light impression, for that matter) that doesn't tax the physical
        limits of the press. Granted a 13x19 form with solid coverage and
        heavy impression on vellum would tax any Vandercook, particularly the
        SP-15. But there's no reason you'd tax the press with a 3x5 plate on
        a 13x19 base, is there? I don't see how there's any disadvantage to
        go large on a Vandercook, as long as you have some "wiggle room" to
        move the base to aid registration.

        That said, if someone needs the flexibility of two bases, Boxcar can
        cut a 13x19 base in half at no additional charge. This is ideal
        because the base's height between the two halves matches exactly
        (because they come from the same original base).

        If your inking rollers are inking the base, then something is way out
        of adjustment and needs correcting. The printing is going to be very
        poor quality if the rollers are so low. If adjusting the roller
        height doesn't help, then NA Graphics has new rollers.

        Finally, buying a Boxcar Base is not irreversible because we have a
        satisfaction guarantee.

        On Mar 31, 2007, at 11:23 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:
        > Bunting
        > won't make a base larger than 11-1/4 by 8-1/2 inches simply because
        > they cannot guarantee that it will be precisely parallel throughout
        > the measure beyond that;

        Gerald: That may have something to do with the capabilities of their
        machine shop, because we're able to guarantee the same tolerances
        over a much larger area. None of our customers has had to bolt down
        their base to my knowledge, although we've shipped many 17x22 bases
        and several 24 inch square bases. It's hard to find a machine shop
        that can handle these tolerances, but ours can. We guarantee it, anyway.

        Harold


        Harold Kyle
        Boxcar Press
        501 W. Fayette St. #222 ~ Syracuse, NY 13204
        315-473-0930 phone ~ 315-473-0967 fax
        http://www.boxcarpress.com
      • Blue Barnhouse
        We have a Universal I that came with a bunting base that almost fits the width of the bed (shy 1/16 ) and fills all but 2.5 inches of the length of the bed,
        Message 3 of 28 , Apr 2, 2007
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          We have a Universal I that came with a bunting base that almost fits
          the width of the bed (shy 1/16") and fills all but 2.5 inches of the
          length of the bed, the first of which is down near the gripper side,
          the remaining 1.5" on the back end, which is where all the quoin
          action happens to happen. It is as if some god of the press (is
          there a god of printing?) had poured hot metal into the bed until its
          height was roughly .85". Works fine with a boxcar plate (given the
          fact we have an adjustable bed.)

          Brandon









          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gerald Lange
          Brandon By boxcar plate, do you mean you are using a polyester-backed plate w/film adhesive on a Bunting Magnetic base? If so, what is the rationale? Gerald
          Message 4 of 28 , Apr 2, 2007
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            Brandon

            By "boxcar plate," do you mean you are using a polyester-backed plate
            w/film adhesive on a Bunting Magnetic base? If so, what is the rationale?

            Gerald
            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


            >
            > We have a Universal I that came with a bunting base that almost fits
            > the width of the bed (shy 1/16") and fills all but 2.5 inches of the
            > length of the bed, the first of which is down near the gripper side,
            > the remaining 1.5" on the back end, which is where all the quoin
            > action happens to happen. It is as if some god of the press (is
            > there a god of printing?) had poured hot metal into the bed until its
            > height was roughly .85". Works fine with a boxcar plate (given the
            > fact we have an adjustable bed.)
            >
            > Brandon
            >
            >
          • Blue Barnhouse
            ... Yes we use polyester-backed plates w/ film adhesive (a whole lot easier to say boxcar plate), but it s not on a magnetic base, its just an aluminum base. I
            Message 5 of 28 , Apr 3, 2007
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              >
              >
              > By "boxcar plate," do you mean you are using a polyester-backed plate
              > w/film adhesive on a Bunting Magnetic base? If so, what is the
              > rationale?
              >

              Yes we use polyester-backed plates w/ film adhesive (a whole lot
              easier to say boxcar plate), but it's not on a magnetic base, its
              just an aluminum base. I don't know why I said bunting.

              But, even on a magnetic base I would use boxcar plates (and have
              before, on other people's setup) and just adjust the press
              accordingly, for a number of reasons, though mostly for quick
              registration (we tape the plate upside down to the paper, properly
              registered, and then run it through the press). Yesterday we had a
              last minute switch on a poster for a summer movie series-- the
              client wanted to change "last of the unicorns" to "the last
              unicorn." rather than order a new negative we chopped up the plate
              with scissors and rearranged the words. I would never attempt
              something like that on a steel backed plate.





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Gerald Lange
              Brandon A Kutrimmer works quite well for precision cutting on steel-backed plates. I did have an occasion to correct a steel-backed plate in the manner you
              Message 6 of 28 , Apr 4, 2007
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                Brandon

                A Kutrimmer works quite well for precision cutting on steel-backed
                plates. I did have an occasion to correct a steel-backed plate in the
                manner you describe. Not something I'd suggest as common routine.

                Don't know though that I'd also suggest this as a qualitative measure
                for a polyester-backed vs. steel-backed kind of thing. That seems a
                bit silly. Quick and dirty fixes are just what they are, and I'd
                "hope" not a rationale for preference or practice.

                Gerald
                http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                >
                > But, even on a magnetic base I would use boxcar plates (and have
                > before, on other people's setup) and just adjust the press
                > accordingly, for a number of reasons, though mostly for quick
                > registration (we tape the plate upside down to the paper, properly
                > registered, and then run it through the press). Yesterday we had a
                > last minute switch on a poster for a summer movie series-- the
                > client wanted to change "last of the unicorns" to "the last
                > unicorn." rather than order a new negative we chopped up the plate
                > with scissors and rearranged the words. I would never attempt
                > something like that on a steel backed plate.
                >
                >
              • Blue Barnhouse
                While kutrimmers are handy for cutting straight lines, I find the need to cut in curves or around particular items- which I have tried on steel plates with
                Message 7 of 28 , Apr 5, 2007
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                  While kutrimmers are handy for cutting straight lines, I find the
                  need to cut in curves or around particular items- which I have tried
                  on steel plates with snips but the results are difficult to come by
                  and often messy. As per quick and dirty fixes, while I'm a
                  perfectionist like the rest of us- an end result I can be proud of
                  is what I'm after and the number of paths I take to that result on a
                  day to day basis are widely varied. In this instance the job was a
                  favor and with a whole bunch of paying jobs waiting in queue, quick
                  and dirty sounded mighty delicious.

                  Brandon


                  On Apr 5, 2007, at 12:59 AM, Gerald Lange wrote:

                  > Brandon
                  >
                  > A Kutrimmer works quite well for precision cutting on steel-backed
                  > plates. I did have an occasion to correct a steel-backed plate in the
                  > manner you describe. Not something I'd suggest as common routine.
                  >
                  > Don't know though that I'd also suggest this as a qualitative measure
                  > for a polyester-backed vs. steel-backed kind of thing. That seems a
                  > bit silly. Quick and dirty fixes are just what they are, and I'd
                  > "hope" not a rationale for preference or practice.
                  >
                  > Gerald
                  > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                  >
                  > >
                  > > But, even on a magnetic base I would use boxcar plates (and have
                  > > before, on other people's setup) and just adjust the press
                  > > accordingly, for a number of reasons, though mostly for quick
                  > > registration (we tape the plate upside down to the paper, properly
                  > > registered, and then run it through the press). Yesterday we had a
                  > > last minute switch on a poster for a summer movie series-- the
                  > > client wanted to change "last of the unicorns" to "the last
                  > > unicorn." rather than order a new negative we chopped up the plate
                  > > with scissors and rearranged the words. I would never attempt
                  > > something like that on a steel backed plate.
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • parallel_imp
                  ... There are a variety of tools that will cut metal plates on an irregular path or a limited distance, but most will remove a width of metal. You can get a
                  Message 8 of 28 , Apr 5, 2007
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                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Blue Barnhouse
                    <letpresslist@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > While kutrimmers are handy for cutting straight lines, I find the
                    > need to cut in curves or around particular items- which I have tried
                    > on steel plates with snips but the results are difficult to come by
                    > and often messy.

                    There are a variety of tools that will cut metal plates on an
                    irregular path or a limited distance, but most will remove a width of
                    metal. You can get a "nibbler" at Radio Shack, and it takes a 1/16"
                    deep by 1/4" wide bite, which can be started from a hole drilled in
                    the middle of the plate; with practice, you can also use a jigsaw or
                    coping saw or jeweller's saw for a thinner path. I also use little
                    curved dental scissors, straight and curved tinsnips, and a French
                    version of the nibbler (it says "cisaille" on the package). All are
                    useful, none are perfect, and you'll need to file off edge-burrs. And
                    I warn you, working with cut metal like this, you really should have a
                    full first-aid kit and know how to make a butterfly bandage.
                    E Holub, SF
                  • Gerald Lange
                    Hi Eric Yeah, I ve got a zillion specialized tools for this, and dropped a few more bucks tonight searching for that nibbler. Ah, Radio Shack, sort of like
                    Message 9 of 28 , Apr 5, 2007
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                      Hi Eric

                      Yeah, I've got a zillion specialized tools for this, and dropped a few
                      more bucks tonight searching for that nibbler. Ah, Radio Shack, sort
                      of like going to Home Depot, except for the wait. Still junk when you
                      get it home though.

                      I suppose this will irritate just about everyone but I'd recommend not
                      ever disturbing the length/width configuration of a plate, whether
                      steel-backed or polyester-backed. Except, of course, in the quick and
                      dirty or the desperate necessity. Why? The lay-down can easily get
                      distorted or twisted. Plain and simple.

                      Gerald
                      http://BielerPress.blogspot.com



                      >
                      > There are a variety of tools that will cut metal plates on an
                      > irregular path or a limited distance, but most will remove a width of
                      > metal. You can get a "nibbler" at Radio Shack, and it takes a 1/16"
                      > deep by 1/4" wide bite, which can be started from a hole drilled in
                      > the middle of the plate; with practice, you can also use a jigsaw or
                      > coping saw or jeweller's saw for a thinner path. I also use little
                      > curved dental scissors, straight and curved tinsnips, and a French
                      > version of the nibbler (it says "cisaille" on the package). All are
                      > useful, none are perfect, and you'll need to file off edge-burrs. And
                      > I warn you, working with cut metal like this, you really should have a
                      > full first-aid kit and know how to make a butterfly bandage.
                      > E Holub, SF
                      >
                    • parallel_imp
                      Gerald, I should add that I m using these tools on Miraclon/Rigilon which has a fairly rigid metal backing. A more flexible back, as on Printight, can be more
                      Message 10 of 28 , Apr 6, 2007
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                        Gerald, I should add that I'm using these tools on Miraclon/Rigilon
                        which has a fairly rigid metal backing. A more flexible back, as on
                        Printight, can be more distorted by tools with a short cut (except
                        maybe the nibbler, which supports the remaining material as it cuts,
                        but it can leave a bit of a sawtooth edge). Cut Printight with
                        tinsnips and it may get a lasagna-edge. As I said, these tools are
                        useful but not perfect. And I can understand why some people prefer
                        the ease of cutting plastic plates with scissors or xacto.
                        But since I often mount small plates on lead high-base, the nibbler
                        lets me trim a plate right up to the beard, butt it against foundry
                        type, etc.
                        Eric Holub, SF
                        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                        > Yeah, I've got a zillion specialized tools for this, and dropped a few
                        > more bucks tonight searching for that nibbler. Ah, Radio Shack, sort
                        > of like going to Home Depot, except for the wait. Still junk when you
                        > get it home though.
                        >
                        > I suppose this will irritate just about everyone but I'd recommend not
                        > ever disturbing the length/width configuration of a plate, whether
                        > steel-backed or polyester-backed. Except, of course, in the quick and
                        > dirty or the desperate necessity. Why? The lay-down can easily get
                        > distorted or twisted. Plain and simple.
                      • Gerald Lange
                        Just some information: Besides manufacturing magnetic flatbases and magnetic cylinders for the printing industry, Bunting actually makes non-magnetic cylinders
                        Message 11 of 28 , Apr 7, 2007
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                          Just some information:

                          Besides manufacturing magnetic flatbases and magnetic cylinders for
                          the printing industry, Bunting actually makes non-magnetic cylinders
                          for use with polyester-backed plates—and has for a "lot" longer than
                          "boxcar plates" have been around. They never manufactured a
                          non-magnetic flatbase though, I assume, market-wise, they saw no
                          industry support since non-magnetic flatbases were readily available.
                          I had a bunch of the old plastic newspaper bases at one point, and
                          they were also made from type metal and wood (I have some very precise
                          aluminum combination base material that was manufactured in Germany).
                          Those old AWT and ATF catalogs list all sorts of base material.

                          Gerald
                          http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                          > >
                          > > By "boxcar plate," do you mean you are using a polyester-backed plate
                          > > w/film adhesive on a Bunting Magnetic base? If so, what is the
                          > > rationale?
                          > >
                          >
                          > Yes we use polyester-backed plates w/ film adhesive (a whole lot
                          > easier to say boxcar plate), but it's not on a magnetic base, its
                          > just an aluminum base. I don't know why I said bunting.
                          >
                          > But, even on a magnetic base I would use boxcar plates (and have
                          > before, on other people's setup) and just adjust the press
                          > accordingly, for a number of reasons, though mostly for quick
                          > registration (we tape the plate upside down to the paper, properly
                          > registered, and then run it through the press).
                          >
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