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[PPLetterpress] Re: Boxcar Base

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  • sylvia chevrier
    Gerald, Thanks to you and to everyone else who sent in their opinions on this topic; it was all very helpful. Best, Sylvia ... [Non-text portions of this
    Message 1 of 28 , Apr 1 11:46 AM
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      Gerald,

      Thanks to you and to everyone else who sent in their opinions on this
      topic; it was all very helpful.

      Best,
      Sylvia



      >Sylvia
      >
      >I've got two Bunting Cerface Magnetic Bases that fit my Vandercook
      >SP15 bed at 11-1/4 by 17 inches. This leaves just enough room for
      >roller supports, quoins, and supporting furniture on the width. The
      >press is, amazingly enough, capable of providing uniform ink coverage
      >over that range.
      >
      >A consideration regarding a large base though might be this. Bunting
      >won't make a base larger than 11-1/4 by 8-1/2 inches simply because
      >they cannot guarantee that it will be precisely parallel throughout
      >the measure beyond that; and they are a major manufacturer of all
      >sorts of industrial products. They will make larger bases on special
      >order but caution with the suggestion that such a base would need to
      >be bolted down to the press bed. That is something I would give some
      >thought to in your decision making. Sometimes bigger isn't better.
      >
      >Gerald
      ><http://BielerPress.blogspot.com>http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Allison Chapman
      To the earlier question regarding the deep relief bases: I have been happy with the standard Boxcar base on my platen press. I haven t run into any
      Message 2 of 28 , Apr 1 9:39 PM
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        To the earlier question regarding the deep relief bases:

        I have been happy with the standard Boxcar base on my platen press. I
        haven't run into any difficulties yet. I like the convenience of using the
        smaller base on my Vandercook as well.

        Allison Chapman
        Igloo Press


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Harold Kyle
        Thanks to everyone who shared their Boxcar Base experience. It s nice to start the week this way! We ve sold many 13x19 bases to SP-15 users. ... Fritz: It s
        Message 3 of 28 , Apr 2 7:03 AM
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          Thanks to everyone who shared their Boxcar Base experience. It's nice
          to start the week this way!

          We've sold many 13x19 bases to SP-15 users.

          On Mar 31, 2007, at 3:25 PM, nagraph1 wrote:
          > but I seriouly question the reasoning behind filling up the
          > bed of any press with a base that taxes the physical limits of the
          > bed. My recommendation is to get two bases that will be the same size
          > that can be used individually or in tandem if required for a large
          > plate.

          Fritz: It's easy to imagine a 13x19 form with light coverage (or
          light impression, for that matter) that doesn't tax the physical
          limits of the press. Granted a 13x19 form with solid coverage and
          heavy impression on vellum would tax any Vandercook, particularly the
          SP-15. But there's no reason you'd tax the press with a 3x5 plate on
          a 13x19 base, is there? I don't see how there's any disadvantage to
          go large on a Vandercook, as long as you have some "wiggle room" to
          move the base to aid registration.

          That said, if someone needs the flexibility of two bases, Boxcar can
          cut a 13x19 base in half at no additional charge. This is ideal
          because the base's height between the two halves matches exactly
          (because they come from the same original base).

          If your inking rollers are inking the base, then something is way out
          of adjustment and needs correcting. The printing is going to be very
          poor quality if the rollers are so low. If adjusting the roller
          height doesn't help, then NA Graphics has new rollers.

          Finally, buying a Boxcar Base is not irreversible because we have a
          satisfaction guarantee.

          On Mar 31, 2007, at 11:23 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:
          > Bunting
          > won't make a base larger than 11-1/4 by 8-1/2 inches simply because
          > they cannot guarantee that it will be precisely parallel throughout
          > the measure beyond that;

          Gerald: That may have something to do with the capabilities of their
          machine shop, because we're able to guarantee the same tolerances
          over a much larger area. None of our customers has had to bolt down
          their base to my knowledge, although we've shipped many 17x22 bases
          and several 24 inch square bases. It's hard to find a machine shop
          that can handle these tolerances, but ours can. We guarantee it, anyway.

          Harold


          Harold Kyle
          Boxcar Press
          501 W. Fayette St. #222 ~ Syracuse, NY 13204
          315-473-0930 phone ~ 315-473-0967 fax
          http://www.boxcarpress.com
        • Blue Barnhouse
          We have a Universal I that came with a bunting base that almost fits the width of the bed (shy 1/16 ) and fills all but 2.5 inches of the length of the bed,
          Message 4 of 28 , Apr 2 2:27 PM
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            We have a Universal I that came with a bunting base that almost fits
            the width of the bed (shy 1/16") and fills all but 2.5 inches of the
            length of the bed, the first of which is down near the gripper side,
            the remaining 1.5" on the back end, which is where all the quoin
            action happens to happen. It is as if some god of the press (is
            there a god of printing?) had poured hot metal into the bed until its
            height was roughly .85". Works fine with a boxcar plate (given the
            fact we have an adjustable bed.)

            Brandon









            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Gerald Lange
            Brandon By boxcar plate, do you mean you are using a polyester-backed plate w/film adhesive on a Bunting Magnetic base? If so, what is the rationale? Gerald
            Message 5 of 28 , Apr 2 9:19 PM
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              Brandon

              By "boxcar plate," do you mean you are using a polyester-backed plate
              w/film adhesive on a Bunting Magnetic base? If so, what is the rationale?

              Gerald
              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


              >
              > We have a Universal I that came with a bunting base that almost fits
              > the width of the bed (shy 1/16") and fills all but 2.5 inches of the
              > length of the bed, the first of which is down near the gripper side,
              > the remaining 1.5" on the back end, which is where all the quoin
              > action happens to happen. It is as if some god of the press (is
              > there a god of printing?) had poured hot metal into the bed until its
              > height was roughly .85". Works fine with a boxcar plate (given the
              > fact we have an adjustable bed.)
              >
              > Brandon
              >
              >
            • Blue Barnhouse
              ... Yes we use polyester-backed plates w/ film adhesive (a whole lot easier to say boxcar plate), but it s not on a magnetic base, its just an aluminum base. I
              Message 6 of 28 , Apr 3 4:10 AM
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                >
                >
                > By "boxcar plate," do you mean you are using a polyester-backed plate
                > w/film adhesive on a Bunting Magnetic base? If so, what is the
                > rationale?
                >

                Yes we use polyester-backed plates w/ film adhesive (a whole lot
                easier to say boxcar plate), but it's not on a magnetic base, its
                just an aluminum base. I don't know why I said bunting.

                But, even on a magnetic base I would use boxcar plates (and have
                before, on other people's setup) and just adjust the press
                accordingly, for a number of reasons, though mostly for quick
                registration (we tape the plate upside down to the paper, properly
                registered, and then run it through the press). Yesterday we had a
                last minute switch on a poster for a summer movie series-- the
                client wanted to change "last of the unicorns" to "the last
                unicorn." rather than order a new negative we chopped up the plate
                with scissors and rearranged the words. I would never attempt
                something like that on a steel backed plate.





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Gerald Lange
                Brandon A Kutrimmer works quite well for precision cutting on steel-backed plates. I did have an occasion to correct a steel-backed plate in the manner you
                Message 7 of 28 , Apr 4 9:59 PM
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                  Brandon

                  A Kutrimmer works quite well for precision cutting on steel-backed
                  plates. I did have an occasion to correct a steel-backed plate in the
                  manner you describe. Not something I'd suggest as common routine.

                  Don't know though that I'd also suggest this as a qualitative measure
                  for a polyester-backed vs. steel-backed kind of thing. That seems a
                  bit silly. Quick and dirty fixes are just what they are, and I'd
                  "hope" not a rationale for preference or practice.

                  Gerald
                  http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                  >
                  > But, even on a magnetic base I would use boxcar plates (and have
                  > before, on other people's setup) and just adjust the press
                  > accordingly, for a number of reasons, though mostly for quick
                  > registration (we tape the plate upside down to the paper, properly
                  > registered, and then run it through the press). Yesterday we had a
                  > last minute switch on a poster for a summer movie series-- the
                  > client wanted to change "last of the unicorns" to "the last
                  > unicorn." rather than order a new negative we chopped up the plate
                  > with scissors and rearranged the words. I would never attempt
                  > something like that on a steel backed plate.
                  >
                  >
                • Blue Barnhouse
                  While kutrimmers are handy for cutting straight lines, I find the need to cut in curves or around particular items- which I have tried on steel plates with
                  Message 8 of 28 , Apr 5 6:38 AM
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                    While kutrimmers are handy for cutting straight lines, I find the
                    need to cut in curves or around particular items- which I have tried
                    on steel plates with snips but the results are difficult to come by
                    and often messy. As per quick and dirty fixes, while I'm a
                    perfectionist like the rest of us- an end result I can be proud of
                    is what I'm after and the number of paths I take to that result on a
                    day to day basis are widely varied. In this instance the job was a
                    favor and with a whole bunch of paying jobs waiting in queue, quick
                    and dirty sounded mighty delicious.

                    Brandon


                    On Apr 5, 2007, at 12:59 AM, Gerald Lange wrote:

                    > Brandon
                    >
                    > A Kutrimmer works quite well for precision cutting on steel-backed
                    > plates. I did have an occasion to correct a steel-backed plate in the
                    > manner you describe. Not something I'd suggest as common routine.
                    >
                    > Don't know though that I'd also suggest this as a qualitative measure
                    > for a polyester-backed vs. steel-backed kind of thing. That seems a
                    > bit silly. Quick and dirty fixes are just what they are, and I'd
                    > "hope" not a rationale for preference or practice.
                    >
                    > Gerald
                    > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                    >
                    > >
                    > > But, even on a magnetic base I would use boxcar plates (and have
                    > > before, on other people's setup) and just adjust the press
                    > > accordingly, for a number of reasons, though mostly for quick
                    > > registration (we tape the plate upside down to the paper, properly
                    > > registered, and then run it through the press). Yesterday we had a
                    > > last minute switch on a poster for a summer movie series-- the
                    > > client wanted to change "last of the unicorns" to "the last
                    > > unicorn." rather than order a new negative we chopped up the plate
                    > > with scissors and rearranged the words. I would never attempt
                    > > something like that on a steel backed plate.
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • parallel_imp
                    ... There are a variety of tools that will cut metal plates on an irregular path or a limited distance, but most will remove a width of metal. You can get a
                    Message 9 of 28 , Apr 5 12:07 PM
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                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Blue Barnhouse
                      <letpresslist@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > While kutrimmers are handy for cutting straight lines, I find the
                      > need to cut in curves or around particular items- which I have tried
                      > on steel plates with snips but the results are difficult to come by
                      > and often messy.

                      There are a variety of tools that will cut metal plates on an
                      irregular path or a limited distance, but most will remove a width of
                      metal. You can get a "nibbler" at Radio Shack, and it takes a 1/16"
                      deep by 1/4" wide bite, which can be started from a hole drilled in
                      the middle of the plate; with practice, you can also use a jigsaw or
                      coping saw or jeweller's saw for a thinner path. I also use little
                      curved dental scissors, straight and curved tinsnips, and a French
                      version of the nibbler (it says "cisaille" on the package). All are
                      useful, none are perfect, and you'll need to file off edge-burrs. And
                      I warn you, working with cut metal like this, you really should have a
                      full first-aid kit and know how to make a butterfly bandage.
                      E Holub, SF
                    • Gerald Lange
                      Hi Eric Yeah, I ve got a zillion specialized tools for this, and dropped a few more bucks tonight searching for that nibbler. Ah, Radio Shack, sort of like
                      Message 10 of 28 , Apr 5 9:40 PM
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                        Hi Eric

                        Yeah, I've got a zillion specialized tools for this, and dropped a few
                        more bucks tonight searching for that nibbler. Ah, Radio Shack, sort
                        of like going to Home Depot, except for the wait. Still junk when you
                        get it home though.

                        I suppose this will irritate just about everyone but I'd recommend not
                        ever disturbing the length/width configuration of a plate, whether
                        steel-backed or polyester-backed. Except, of course, in the quick and
                        dirty or the desperate necessity. Why? The lay-down can easily get
                        distorted or twisted. Plain and simple.

                        Gerald
                        http://BielerPress.blogspot.com



                        >
                        > There are a variety of tools that will cut metal plates on an
                        > irregular path or a limited distance, but most will remove a width of
                        > metal. You can get a "nibbler" at Radio Shack, and it takes a 1/16"
                        > deep by 1/4" wide bite, which can be started from a hole drilled in
                        > the middle of the plate; with practice, you can also use a jigsaw or
                        > coping saw or jeweller's saw for a thinner path. I also use little
                        > curved dental scissors, straight and curved tinsnips, and a French
                        > version of the nibbler (it says "cisaille" on the package). All are
                        > useful, none are perfect, and you'll need to file off edge-burrs. And
                        > I warn you, working with cut metal like this, you really should have a
                        > full first-aid kit and know how to make a butterfly bandage.
                        > E Holub, SF
                        >
                      • parallel_imp
                        Gerald, I should add that I m using these tools on Miraclon/Rigilon which has a fairly rigid metal backing. A more flexible back, as on Printight, can be more
                        Message 11 of 28 , Apr 6 10:12 AM
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                          Gerald, I should add that I'm using these tools on Miraclon/Rigilon
                          which has a fairly rigid metal backing. A more flexible back, as on
                          Printight, can be more distorted by tools with a short cut (except
                          maybe the nibbler, which supports the remaining material as it cuts,
                          but it can leave a bit of a sawtooth edge). Cut Printight with
                          tinsnips and it may get a lasagna-edge. As I said, these tools are
                          useful but not perfect. And I can understand why some people prefer
                          the ease of cutting plastic plates with scissors or xacto.
                          But since I often mount small plates on lead high-base, the nibbler
                          lets me trim a plate right up to the beard, butt it against foundry
                          type, etc.
                          Eric Holub, SF
                          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
                          > Yeah, I've got a zillion specialized tools for this, and dropped a few
                          > more bucks tonight searching for that nibbler. Ah, Radio Shack, sort
                          > of like going to Home Depot, except for the wait. Still junk when you
                          > get it home though.
                          >
                          > I suppose this will irritate just about everyone but I'd recommend not
                          > ever disturbing the length/width configuration of a plate, whether
                          > steel-backed or polyester-backed. Except, of course, in the quick and
                          > dirty or the desperate necessity. Why? The lay-down can easily get
                          > distorted or twisted. Plain and simple.
                        • Gerald Lange
                          Just some information: Besides manufacturing magnetic flatbases and magnetic cylinders for the printing industry, Bunting actually makes non-magnetic cylinders
                          Message 12 of 28 , Apr 7 12:04 AM
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                            Just some information:

                            Besides manufacturing magnetic flatbases and magnetic cylinders for
                            the printing industry, Bunting actually makes non-magnetic cylinders
                            for use with polyester-backed plates—and has for a "lot" longer than
                            "boxcar plates" have been around. They never manufactured a
                            non-magnetic flatbase though, I assume, market-wise, they saw no
                            industry support since non-magnetic flatbases were readily available.
                            I had a bunch of the old plastic newspaper bases at one point, and
                            they were also made from type metal and wood (I have some very precise
                            aluminum combination base material that was manufactured in Germany).
                            Those old AWT and ATF catalogs list all sorts of base material.

                            Gerald
                            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                            > >
                            > > By "boxcar plate," do you mean you are using a polyester-backed plate
                            > > w/film adhesive on a Bunting Magnetic base? If so, what is the
                            > > rationale?
                            > >
                            >
                            > Yes we use polyester-backed plates w/ film adhesive (a whole lot
                            > easier to say boxcar plate), but it's not on a magnetic base, its
                            > just an aluminum base. I don't know why I said bunting.
                            >
                            > But, even on a magnetic base I would use boxcar plates (and have
                            > before, on other people's setup) and just adjust the press
                            > accordingly, for a number of reasons, though mostly for quick
                            > registration (we tape the plate upside down to the paper, properly
                            > registered, and then run it through the press).
                            >
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