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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: best-loved faces

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  • Dan Franklin
    ... Could be. I m a single user. G4, Mac OS 10.3.9 (9.2.2). For me, Fusion is so much faster than Font Reserve and is pretty intuitive right out of the box. No
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 3, 2007
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      Kayle warned:

      >I would strongly urge people to wait to use Fusion; they still have
      >a lot of work to do on it, at least on the Mac platform. ... I'm
      >glad to hear, for Dan's sake, that he has not had issues, but I
      >believe he may be in the minority.

      Could be.

      I'm a single user. G4, Mac OS 10.3.9 (9.2.2). For me, Fusion is so
      much faster than Font Reserve and is pretty intuitive right out of
      the box. No crashes. Small annoyances, which I have forwarded to
      Extensis.
    • Gerald Lange
      Dan Thanks for the information. Looks like I need to seriously check this all out. I ve a project in the works with MM Kepler and was dreading the interaction
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 3, 2007
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        Dan

        Thanks for the information. Looks like I need to seriously check this
        all out. I've a project in the works with MM Kepler and was dreading
        the interaction in Indy. Looks like it will all work out based on what
        you have provided.

        Thanks again.

        Gerald
        http://BielerPress.blogspot.com




        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Dan Franklin <dan@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi, Gerald.
        >
        > >Have you installed a complete MM font (parents and instances) that
        > >works in Indy?
        >
        > Yes.
        >
        > >And wouldn't an instance of an optically mastered font be a
        singular entity?
        >
        > Yes, but read on ...
        >
        > >I'm a bit confused by the statement "you can tell InDesign, by way
        > >of preferences, to automatically select the correct optical size
        > >from an MM font that has an optical axis."
        >
        > If you have 'Automatically Use Correct Optical Size' checked in
        > Preferences, you get the optical size closest to the point size of
        > the type.
        >
        > Here's an example (and an experiment):
        >
        > You have Minion MM Roman installed with these instances, among others:
        >
        > 367 wt 600 wd 10 op (normal weight, slightly wider than normal width,
        > 10-point optical size)
        > 367 wt 600 wd 14 op
        > 367 wt 600 wd 18 op
        > 367 wt 600 wd 24 op
        >
        > Type two 24-pt cap aitches side by side. Swipe one and select
        > 367-600-10; swipe the other and select 367-600-24. If you have
        > 'Automatically Use Correct Optical Size' selected in Preferences,
        > both aitches look identical (because InDesign is using the 367-600-24
        > instance -- even though the font indicator shows Minion MM Roman, 367
        > wt 600 wd 10 op for the first, and Minion MM Roman, 367 wt 600 wd 24
        > op for the second).
        >
        > Now turn off that preference. You will see the 367-600-10 aitch
        > change (for example, the bar and the serifs will thicken, as you
        > would expect with a 10-pt optical size).
        >
        > Turn the preference on again, and the aitches appear identical.
        >
        > >Not sure what you mean by correct optical size (well, I know what a
        > >correct optical size is, but isn't this dependent upon a user
        > >configured instance?).
        >
        > For 20-pt type, InDesign auto-selects 367-600-18; for 22-pt type, it
        > auto-selects 367-600-24; for 21-pt type (exactly halfway between 18
        > and 24), it auto-selects 367-600-18 (the lower optical size value).
        >
        > >Is this capability because of how Fusion treats fonts? Font Explorer
        > >X sure doesn't cater much to a complete MM font (parents and all).
        > >How does this work?
        >
        > I don't know. I use Fusion, which I love, because I used its
        > predecessor, Font Reserve, and I used Font Reserve because it allowed
        > me to classify/search my fonts by traditional designations, like
        > 'Oldstyle', 'Humanist sans', 'Grotesque sans', etc. When I wanted a
        > transitional face for a project (but wasn't sure which one), I didn't
        > have to scroll through Jenson, Caslon, Minion, Bodoni, etc.; I could
        > search for 'Transitional' and immediately see that I could choose
        > from Baskerville, Bell, Caledonia, etc.
        >
        > >I've got Font Agent and Font Explorer X but I gave up on Fusion when
        > >the initial try out app (a year or so ago?) opened up as an Excel
        > >file. Figured if they hadn't figured that out, not worth going much
        > >further with it.
        >
        > That's a bummer. It's better now.
        >
        > Fun to talk type with you.
        >
      • Gerald Lange
        PPL Actually, I was hoping some of the folks involved in the recent letterpress revival, the stationery/invitational card folks, would have responded to this.
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 3, 2007
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          PPL

          Actually, I was hoping some of the folks involved in the recent
          letterpress revival, the stationery/invitational card folks, would
          have responded to this. Truth be told though, I can't really find
          their representation on any of the letterpress lists. Not sure what
          that says. Insular? Competitive? Letterpress is a selling point, but
          no real further, deeper interest?

          Gerald
          http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
        • Lance Williams
          Well, As a stationery printer for over 25 years, and the business for over 73 years, I ll chime in here a little.... I can t say what my personal favorite
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 4, 2007
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            Well,

            As a stationery printer for over 25 years, and the business for over 73
            years, I'll chime in here a little.... I can't say what my personal
            favorite faces are, it all depends on what I am working on at the time.
            However, we have always limited out stationery lines to a few specific
            faces for two reasons:

            1: Ease of selling the stationery, as we sell "door to door" through
            school groups, church groups, etc, and by having only a few type styles
            makes it easier, especially for the younger salespeople.

            2: Easier for us, as we don't have to change magazines in our Intertypes
            as we set type. We currently have one Model C with 2 mags with duplex
            faces, giving us a total of 6 usable type styles on that machine, and the
            other Model C has 5 usable type styles. We also use 3 faces on our Ludlow,
            even though we have many more for other uses.

            First Model C: 10 Pt. Helvetica w/italic, 12 Pt. Bernard Fashion w/ Park
            Ave & 12 Pt. Engravers Text w/Typo Roman.

            2nd Model C: 11 Pt. Times Roman w/ Italic, 14 Pt. Waverly w/ italic, 18 pt.
            Vogue Oblique.

            Ludlow: 18 Pt. Society Text, 18 pt. Tempo Light Italic, 24 pt. Coronet

            These are the various faces we have used on our stationery products for
            more than the past 25 years. However, I am currently in the process of
            adding several magazines of mats to offer some new faces to the line to see
            if it will help improve sales. I think our line has become somewhat
            "stale" over the years, and needs some "modernization" to infuse a little
            more life in it...

            Well, have to cut this short, as I have to make/eat breakfast and get to
            work....

            - Lance Williams
            Williams Stationery Co.
            Camden, New York
            APA #785


            > [Original Message]
            > From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@...>
            > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
            > Date: 1/4/2007 2:42:04 AM
            > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: best-loved faces
            >
            > PPL
            >
            > Actually, I was hoping some of the folks involved in the recent
            > letterpress revival, the stationery/invitational card folks, would
            > have responded to this. Truth be told though, I can't really find
            > their representation on any of the letterpress lists. Not sure what
            > that says. Insular? Competitive? Letterpress is a selling point, but
            > no real further, deeper interest?
            >
            > Gerald
            > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • lisa rappoport
            ... Hi Gerald, As someone who prints invitations, along with other commercial work and my own personal work, the answer seems clear: One s own favorite faces
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 4, 2007
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              >Actually, I was hoping some of the folks involved in the recent
              >letterpress revival, the stationery/invitational card folks, would
              >have responded to this. Truth be told though, I can't really find
              >their representation on any of the letterpress lists. Not sure what
              >that says. Insular? Competitive? Letterpress is a selling point, but
              >no real further, deeper interest?

              Hi Gerald,
              As someone who prints invitations, along with other commercial work and my own personal work, the answer seems clear: One's own favorite faces are generally irrelevant. The customer will select the face, esp. if you're going the polymer plate route, in which case they can choose from whatever digital font, suitable or not, they've ever seen.

              With handset metal type obviously they're limited to what I have, and within that to what I have enough of, in appropriate sizes, for the job at hand. So it's a pre-selected selection.

              My house font has always been Centaur. I'm also very drawn to Garamond, esp. the italic; Bernhard Gothic, esp. the light weight; and some oddities like Greeting Monotone (rarely appropriate, but wonderful in the right usage) and Glamour Light.

              And I confess to some low tastes, like Park Avenue and Typo Upright.

              Best,
              Lisa
              Littoral Press
            • Gerald Lange
              Hi Lisa Well, yes, and no. I process plates for a number of stationery/invitational card folks—some of them quite high end and prolific—and the latter will
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 4, 2007
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                Hi Lisa

                Well, yes, and no. I process plates for a number of
                stationery/invitational card folks—some of them quite high end and
                prolific—and the latter will either direct their clients
                appropriately, as designers should (I'd think), or (in regard to favs)
                they may have a line of cards developed in which they are using their
                own preferred faces.

                So, I'd suggest it is not always just what the client demands but
                often how they are directed to what they need. And, I would think, if
                they are coming to you (generic you), they are coming for a specific
                reason, your taste, your expertise, skill, what uniquely you have to
                offer, etc. Yes? No?

                Gerald
                http://BielerPress.blogspot.com



                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, lisa rappoport <cutvelvet@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > >Actually, I was hoping some of the folks involved in the recent
                > >letterpress revival, the stationery/invitational card folks, would
                > >have responded to this. Truth be told though, I can't really find
                > >their representation on any of the letterpress lists. Not sure what
                > >that says. Insular? Competitive? Letterpress is a selling point, but
                > >no real further, deeper interest?
                >
                > Hi Gerald,
                > As someone who prints invitations, along with other commercial work
                and my own personal work, the answer seems clear: One's own favorite
                faces are generally irrelevant. The customer will select the face,
                esp. if you're going the polymer plate route, in which case they can
                choose from whatever digital font, suitable or not, they've ever seen.
                >

                >
              • juliemackenzie2003
                Hi Gerald and Lisa- I am a custom invitation designer and also print for designers as well. I agree with Gerald, I tend to steer my clients in the directions
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 5, 2007
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                  Hi Gerald and Lisa-

                  I am a custom invitation designer and also print for designers as
                  well.

                  I agree with Gerald, I tend to steer my clients in the directions of
                  my tried and true typefaces. I have in my early days, tried
                  different faces because it was what they liked. Often to my dismay.
                  They liked the end result, but I fussed through the entire print
                  process.

                  When time allows, I will print for an occasional designer. Not
                  always liking the design and type faces. I did one time get quite a
                  surprise on a typeface that I thought was horrible. Hard to read and
                  letters were not what I thought (in digital format) Yet when I
                  printed it. It looked quite lovely. That was Escrita Principal.

                  anyways, long story short. What the client wants is often what you
                  will recommend within their design style.

                  Thanks,
                  Julie MacKenzie
                  www.mackenziepress.com

                  > Well, yes, and no. I process plates for a number of
                  > stationery/invitational card folks—some of them quite high end and
                  > prolific—and the latter will either direct their clients
                  > appropriately, as designers should (I'd think), or (in regard to
                  favs)
                  > they may have a line of cards developed in which they are using
                  their
                  > own preferred faces.
                  >
                  > So, I'd suggest it is not always just what the client demands but
                  > often how they are directed to what they need. And, I would think,
                  if
                  > they are coming to you (generic you), they are coming for a specific
                  > reason, your taste, your expertise, skill, what uniquely you have to
                  > offer, etc. Yes? No?
                  >
                  > Gerald
                  > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
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