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Re: best-loved faces

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  • Sharon DeGraw
    I use Adobe Jenson Multiple Master quite a bit with photopolymer. The weight of the face can be lightened to compensate for ink squeeze. Does anyone know if
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 31, 2006
      I use Adobe Jenson Multiple Master
      quite a bit with photopolymer.
      The weight of the face can be lightened
      to compensate for ink squeeze. Does
      anyone know if the Multiple Master
      software works on Mac System X or
      higher? I'm starting to use Rialto and
      like it very much. The capitals are
      drawn slightly shorter and the face
      does have Van Krimpen influences.
      Does anyone one know if Romanee
      Open Titling exists in a digital form?
      Thanks.

      Shari


      --- PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      > There are 2 messages in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1a. Best-Loved Faces (was Linotypesetting)
      > From: John G. Henry
      > 1b. Re: Best-Loved Faces (was Linotypesetting)
      > From: Bill Denham
      >
      >
      > Messages
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > 1a. Best-Loved Faces (was Linotypesetting)
      > Posted by: "John G. Henry" JohnH@...
      > author50401
      > Date: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:55 am ((PST))
      >
      > Kayle:
      >
      > I have always gravitated back to a Garamond-like
      > face. Through the
      > years I have used ATF Garamond, Garamont, and
      > Granjon (all "G" faces
      > you'll notice).
      >
      > I like the fairly small x-height which keeps the
      > page relatively
      > light and open. In doing miniature pages, however, I
      > think a face
      > with larger x-height becomes more readable in small
      > sizes, so have
      > used Linotype Baskerville and Authors Roman (BB&S)
      > to good advantage.
      >
      > I may have related this on-line before, but it bears
      > repeating. I
      > complained to one of my professors, Harry Duncan,
      > that I only had
      > 12pt. Garamond in sufficient quantities to set book
      > pages. His reply
      > was that he could be happy with just that face and
      > size for almost
      > all he wanted to do.
      >
      > I do find myself gravitating to what I like and
      > enjoy seeing, and
      > the older I get, the less I seek out new type and
      > decorative
      > material.
      >
      > John G. Henry
      > Cedar Creek Press
      >
      >
      > > And what fonts do others on this list similiarly
      > find themselves
      > > turning to?
      > > It's a personal question, rather than a technical
      > one; I'm not
      > asking
      > > anyone to
      > > tell me what to love; I'm asking what others love.
      > >
      > > Thank you again, everyone, and Happy New Year!
      > >
      > > Kayle Simon
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (19)
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > 1b. Re: Best-Loved Faces (was Linotypesetting)
      > Posted by: "Bill Denham" bill1028@...
      > printermanpoet
      > Date: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:22 am ((PST))
      >
      > John,
      >
      > Best to you in the new year.
      >
      > I have a memory of your response when I joined this
      > list a while back. I hold that still.
      >
      > l noted your affinity for Garamond.
      >
      > I have the same love of how it looks.
      >
      > I am no knower of typefaces, though once years ago
      > when I worked for a small regional newspaper, the
      > managing editor subscribed to "Upper and Lower Case"
      > (I think that was the name) and I used to love
      > spending time with it. I cannot offer any rational
      > explanation or even wild guess for why I share your
      > love of Garamond and Garamond-like type faces--but
      > that's what I like and that's what I use in all my
      > poetry.
      >
      > Thake care.
      >
      > Bill Denham
      >
      > "John G. Henry" <JohnH@...> wrote:
      > Kayle:
      >
      > I have always gravitated back to a Garamond-like
      > face. Through the
      > years I have used ATF Garamond, Garamont, and
      > Granjon (all "G" faces
      > you'll notice).
      >
      > I like the fairly small x-height which keeps the
      > page relatively
      > light and open. In doing miniature pages, however,
      > I think a face
      > with larger x-height becomes more readable in small
      > sizes, so have
      > used Linotype Baskerville and Authors Roman (BB&S)
      > to good advantage.
      >
      > I may have related this on-line before, but it
      > bears repeating. I
      > complained to one of my professors, Harry Duncan,
      > that I only had
      > 12pt. Garamond in sufficient quantities to set book
      > pages. His reply
      > was that he could be happy with just that face and
      > size for almost
      > all he wanted to do.
      >
      > I do find myself gravitating to what I like and
      > enjoy seeing, and
      > the older I get, the less I seek out new type and
      > decorative
      > material.
      >
      > John G. Henry
      > Cedar Creek Press
      >
      > > And what fonts do others on this list similiarly
      > find themselves
      > > turning to?
      > > It's a personal question, rather than a technical
      > one; I'm not
      > asking
      > > anyone to
      > > tell me what to love; I'm asking what others
      > love.
      > >
      > > Thank you again, everyone, and Happy New Year!
      > >
      > > Kayle Simon
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
      > removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (19)
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      > mailto:PPLetterpress-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      === message truncated ===

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    • Gerald Lange
      Shari These are my suspicions: Multiple Masters technology is supported on OS X but not in any user friendly or functional way. It is embedded in FontLab
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 31, 2006
        Shari

        These are my suspicions:

        Multiple Masters technology is supported on OS X but not in any user
        friendly or functional way. It is embedded in FontLab Studio, for
        instance, as a means to interpolate during the production of a typeface.
        The technology is definitely not supported in InDesign.

        However, Multiple Masters instances that you create in OS 8.6 to 9.2.2
        can be ported over as PS1 fonts and will work, but successfully only if
        transferred from a computer isolated from OS X (from what I've read, a
        computer with shared Classic/OS X won't quite do the job). PS1 fonts
        also need to be transferred as a compressed .sit file to be opened up on
        the OS X desktop or they can be damaged (OS X likes to strip out the
        resource forks). Note also that you can only transfer over only those
        instances that you create (not along with the preconfigured parent
        fonts) and only as long as you carefully identify both the screen
        (bitmap) and printer (vector) fonts. Best way is to quickly run these
        through a pre OS X version of Fontographer or FontLab and re-generate
        with a font name change. A good reason to hang on to that old G3/G4.


        My understanding is that the Dutch Type Foundry owns the rights to
        market many of van Krimpen's typefaces and the Enschede Foundry may have
        issued one or two (?) but as far as I know there is no legitimate
        digital Romanee out there at this time.


        Gerald



        Sharon DeGraw wrote:
        > I use Adobe Jenson Multiple Master
        > quite a bit with photopolymer.
        > The weight of the face can be lightened
        > to compensate for ink squeeze. Does
        > anyone know if the Multiple Master
        > software works on Mac System X or
        > higher? I'm starting to use Rialto and
        > like it very much. The capitals are
        > drawn slightly shorter and the face
        > does have Van Krimpen influences.
        > Does anyone one know if Romanee
        > Open Titling exists in a digital form?
        > Thanks.
        >
        > Shari
        >
        >
        > --- PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        >
        >
        >> There are 2 messages in this issue.
        >>
        >> Topics in this digest:
        >>
        >> 1a. Best-Loved Faces (was Linotypesetting)
        >> From: John G. Henry
        >> 1b. Re: Best-Loved Faces (was Linotypesetting)
        >> From: Bill Denham
        >>
        >>
        >> Messages
        >>
        >>
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        >> 1a. Best-Loved Faces (was Linotypesetting)
        >> Posted by: "John G. Henry" JohnH@...
        >> author50401
        >> Date: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:55 am ((PST))
        >>
        >> Kayle:
        >>
        >> I have always gravitated back to a Garamond-like
        >> face. Through the
        >> years I have used ATF Garamond, Garamont, and
        >> Granjon (all "G" faces
        >> you'll notice).
        >>
        >> I like the fairly small x-height which keeps the
        >> page relatively
        >> light and open. In doing miniature pages, however, I
        >> think a face
        >> with larger x-height becomes more readable in small
        >> sizes, so have
        >> used Linotype Baskerville and Authors Roman (BB&S)
        >> to good advantage.
        >>
        >> I may have related this on-line before, but it bears
        >> repeating. I
        >> complained to one of my professors, Harry Duncan,
        >> that I only had
        >> 12pt. Garamond in sufficient quantities to set book
        >> pages. His reply
        >> was that he could be happy with just that face and
        >> size for almost
        >> all he wanted to do.
        >>
        >> I do find myself gravitating to what I like and
        >> enjoy seeing, and
        >> the older I get, the less I seek out new type and
        >> decorative
        >> material.
        >>
        >> John G. Henry
        >> Cedar Creek Press
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>> And what fonts do others on this list similiarly
        >>>
        >> find themselves
        >>
        >>> turning to?
        >>> It's a personal question, rather than a technical
        >>>
        >> one; I'm not
        >> asking
        >>
        >>> anyone to
        >>> tell me what to love; I'm asking what others love.
        >>>
        >>> Thank you again, everyone, and Happy New Year!
        >>>
        >>> Kayle Simon
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >> Messages in this topic (19)
        >>
        >>
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        >> 1b. Re: Best-Loved Faces (was Linotypesetting)
        >> Posted by: "Bill Denham" bill1028@...
        >> printermanpoet
        >> Date: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:22 am ((PST))
        >>
        >> John,
        >>
        >> Best to you in the new year.
        >>
        >> I have a memory of your response when I joined this
        >> list a while back. I hold that still.
        >>
        >> l noted your affinity for Garamond.
        >>
        >> I have the same love of how it looks.
        >>
        >> I am no knower of typefaces, though once years ago
        >> when I worked for a small regional newspaper, the
        >> managing editor subscribed to "Upper and Lower Case"
        >> (I think that was the name) and I used to love
        >> spending time with it. I cannot offer any rational
        >> explanation or even wild guess for why I share your
        >> love of Garamond and Garamond-like type faces--but
        >> that's what I like and that's what I use in all my
        >> poetry.
        >>
        >> Thake care.
        >>
        >> Bill Denham
        >>
        >> "John G. Henry" <JohnH@...> wrote:
        >> Kayle:
        >>
        >> I have always gravitated back to a Garamond-like
        >> face. Through the
        >> years I have used ATF Garamond, Garamont, and
        >> Granjon (all "G" faces
        >> you'll notice).
        >>
        >> I like the fairly small x-height which keeps the
        >> page relatively
        >> light and open. In doing miniature pages, however,
        >> I think a face
        >> with larger x-height becomes more readable in small
        >> sizes, so have
        >> used Linotype Baskerville and Authors Roman (BB&S)
        >> to good advantage.
        >>
        >> I may have related this on-line before, but it
        >> bears repeating. I
        >> complained to one of my professors, Harry Duncan,
        >> that I only had
        >> 12pt. Garamond in sufficient quantities to set book
        >> pages. His reply
        >> was that he could be happy with just that face and
        >> size for almost
        >> all he wanted to do.
        >>
        >> I do find myself gravitating to what I like and
        >> enjoy seeing, and
        >> the older I get, the less I seek out new type and
        >> decorative
        >> material.
        >>
        >> John G. Henry
        >> Cedar Creek Press
        >>
        >> > And what fonts do others on this list similiarly
        >> find themselves
        >> > turning to?
        >> > It's a personal question, rather than a technical
        >> one; I'm not
        >> asking
        >> > anyone to
        >> > tell me what to love; I'm asking what others
        >> love.
        >> >
        >> > Thank you again, everyone, and Happy New Year!
        >> >
        >> > Kayle Simon
        >> >
        >> >
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been
        >> removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Messages in this topic (19)
        >>
        >>
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >
        >>
        >>
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >> mailto:PPLetterpress-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > === message truncated ===
        >
        > __________________________________________________
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      • Dan Franklin
        ... You can t generate new individual MM instances in InDesign (CS2), but you can use any instances within the MM fonts you have installed and activated. In
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
          >The technology is definitely not supported in InDesign.

          You can't generate new individual MM instances in InDesign (CS2), but
          you can use any instances within the MM fonts you have installed and
          activated. In addition, you can tell InDesign, by way of preferences,
          to automatically select the correct optical size from an MM font that
          has an optical axis.

          >However, Multiple Masters instances that you create in OS 8.6 to 9.2.2
          >can be ported over as PS1 fonts and will work, but successfully only if
          >transferred from a computer isolated from OS X (from what I've read, a
          >computer with shared Classic/OS X won't quite do the job).

          I haven't tried to port these as PS1 fonts from a pre-OSX system to
          OSX, but I have been able to generate additional instances in OS
          9.2.2 on a dual-boot G4, then bring the 'new' MM font into Suitcase
          Fusion, which I use as my font organizer. Once activated there, it's
          available in all its instances to applications like InDesign and
          Illustrator.
        • Gerald Lange
          Dan Well, yes, MM was never dependent upon a secondary application for generation. But, inquiring minds want to know. Have you installed a complete MM font
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 2, 2007
            Dan

            Well, yes, MM was never dependent upon a secondary application for
            generation.

            But, inquiring minds want to know. Have you installed a complete MM
            font (parents and instances) that works in Indy? And wouldn't an
            instance of an optically mastered font be singular entity? I'm a bit
            confused by the statement "you can tell InDesign, by way of
            preferences, to automatically select the correct optical size from an
            MM font that has an optical axis." Not sure what you mean by correct
            optical size (well, I know what a correct optical size is, but isn't
            this dependent upon a user configured instance?). Is this capability
            because of how Fusion treats fonts? Font Explorer X sure doesn't cator
            much to a complete MM font (parents and all). How does this work?

            I've got Font Agent and Font Explorer X but I gave up on Fusion when
            the initial try out app (a year or so ago?) opened up as an Excel
            file. Figured if they hadn't figured that out, not worth going much
            further with it.


            Gerald
            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Dan Franklin <dan@...> wrote:
            >
            > >The technology is definitely not supported in InDesign.
            >
            > You can't generate new individual MM instances in InDesign (CS2), but
            > you can use any instances within the MM fonts you have installed and
            > activated. In addition, you can tell InDesign, by way of preferences,
            > to automatically select the correct optical size from an MM font that
            > has an optical axis.
            >
            > >However, Multiple Masters instances that you create in OS 8.6 to 9.2.2
            > >can be ported over as PS1 fonts and will work, but successfully only if
            > >transferred from a computer isolated from OS X (from what I've read, a
            > >computer with shared Classic/OS X won't quite do the job).
            >
            > I haven't tried to port these as PS1 fonts from a pre-OSX system to
            > OSX, but I have been able to generate additional instances in OS
            > 9.2.2 on a dual-boot G4, then bring the 'new' MM font into Suitcase
            > Fusion, which I use as my font organizer. Once activated there, it's
            > available in all its instances to applications like InDesign and
            > Illustrator.
            >
          • Dan Franklin
            Hi, Gerald. ... Yes. ... Yes, but read on ... ... If you have Automatically Use Correct Optical Size checked in Preferences, you get the optical size closest
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 3, 2007
              Hi, Gerald.

              >Have you installed a complete MM font (parents and instances) that
              >works in Indy?

              Yes.

              >And wouldn't an instance of an optically mastered font be a singular entity?

              Yes, but read on ...

              >I'm a bit confused by the statement "you can tell InDesign, by way
              >of preferences, to automatically select the correct optical size
              >from an MM font that has an optical axis."

              If you have 'Automatically Use Correct Optical Size' checked in
              Preferences, you get the optical size closest to the point size of
              the type.

              Here's an example (and an experiment):

              You have Minion MM Roman installed with these instances, among others:

              367 wt 600 wd 10 op (normal weight, slightly wider than normal width,
              10-point optical size)
              367 wt 600 wd 14 op
              367 wt 600 wd 18 op
              367 wt 600 wd 24 op

              Type two 24-pt cap aitches side by side. Swipe one and select
              367-600-10; swipe the other and select 367-600-24. If you have
              'Automatically Use Correct Optical Size' selected in Preferences,
              both aitches look identical (because InDesign is using the 367-600-24
              instance -- even though the font indicator shows Minion MM Roman, 367
              wt 600 wd 10 op for the first, and Minion MM Roman, 367 wt 600 wd 24
              op for the second).

              Now turn off that preference. You will see the 367-600-10 aitch
              change (for example, the bar and the serifs will thicken, as you
              would expect with a 10-pt optical size).

              Turn the preference on again, and the aitches appear identical.

              >Not sure what you mean by correct optical size (well, I know what a
              >correct optical size is, but isn't this dependent upon a user
              >configured instance?).

              For 20-pt type, InDesign auto-selects 367-600-18; for 22-pt type, it
              auto-selects 367-600-24; for 21-pt type (exactly halfway between 18
              and 24), it auto-selects 367-600-18 (the lower optical size value).

              >Is this capability because of how Fusion treats fonts? Font Explorer
              >X sure doesn't cater much to a complete MM font (parents and all).
              >How does this work?

              I don't know. I use Fusion, which I love, because I used its
              predecessor, Font Reserve, and I used Font Reserve because it allowed
              me to classify/search my fonts by traditional designations, like
              'Oldstyle', 'Humanist sans', 'Grotesque sans', etc. When I wanted a
              transitional face for a project (but wasn't sure which one), I didn't
              have to scroll through Jenson, Caslon, Minion, Bodoni, etc.; I could
              search for 'Transitional' and immediately see that I could choose
              from Baskerville, Bell, Caledonia, etc.

              >I've got Font Agent and Font Explorer X but I gave up on Fusion when
              >the initial try out app (a year or so ago?) opened up as an Excel
              >file. Figured if they hadn't figured that out, not worth going much
              >further with it.

              That's a bummer. It's better now.

              Fun to talk type with you.
            • Kayle Simon
              I would strongly urge people to wait to use Fusion; they still have a lot of work to do on it, at least on the Mac platform. That program ground my business to
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 3, 2007
                I would strongly urge people to wait to use Fusion; they still have
                a lot of work to do on it, at least on the Mac platform. That program
                ground my business to a halt for more than a week, just a month
                or two ago; it was worse than anything I have ever experience
                on any mac in 25 years.

                A very disappointing
                release from an otherwise great company.

                A review of the message boards at extensis and other sites
                would be wise before proceeding with that program. Apparently
                my problems were common. I'm glad to hear, for Dan's sake,
                that he has not had issues, but I believe he may be in the minority.

                Kayle
                www.indigodesign.com


                On Jan 3, 2007, at 3:14 AM, Dan Franklin wrote:

                > Hi, Gerald.
                >
                > >Have you installed a complete MM font (parents and instances) that
                > >works in Indy?
                >
                > Yes.
                >
                > >And wouldn't an instance of an optically mastered font be a
                > singular entity?
                >
                > Yes, but read on ...
                >
                > >I'm a bit confused by the statement "you can tell InDesign, by way
                > >of preferences, to automatically select the correct optical size
                > >from an MM font that has an optical axis."
                >
                > If you have 'Automatically Use Correct Optical Size' checked in
                > Preferences, you get the optical size closest to the point size of
                > the type.
                >
                > Here's an example (and an experiment):
                >
                > You have Minion MM Roman installed with these instances, among others:
                >
                > 367 wt 600 wd 10 op (normal weight, slightly wider than normal width,
                > 10-point optical size)
                > 367 wt 600 wd 14 op
                > 367 wt 600 wd 18 op
                > 367 wt 600 wd 24 op
                >
                > Type two 24-pt cap aitches side by side. Swipe one and select
                > 367-600-10; swipe the other and select 367-600-24. If you have
                > 'Automatically Use Correct Optical Size' selected in Preferences,
                > both aitches look identical (because InDesign is using the 367-600-24
                > instance -- even though the font indicator shows Minion MM Roman, 367
                > wt 600 wd 10 op for the first, and Minion MM Roman, 367 wt 600 wd 24
                > op for the second).
                >
                > Now turn off that preference. You will see the 367-600-10 aitch
                > change (for example, the bar and the serifs will thicken, as you
                > would expect with a 10-pt optical size).
                >
                > Turn the preference on again, and the aitches appear identical.
                >
                > >Not sure what you mean by correct optical size (well, I know what a
                > >correct optical size is, but isn't this dependent upon a user
                > >configured instance?).
                >
                > For 20-pt type, InDesign auto-selects 367-600-18; for 22-pt type, it
                > auto-selects 367-600-24; for 21-pt type (exactly halfway between 18
                > and 24), it auto-selects 367-600-18 (the lower optical size value).
                >
                > >Is this capability because of how Fusion treats fonts? Font Explorer
                > >X sure doesn't cater much to a complete MM font (parents and all).
                > >How does this work?
                >
                > I don't know. I use Fusion, which I love, because I used its
                > predecessor, Font Reserve, and I used Font Reserve because it allowed
                > me to classify/search my fonts by traditional designations, like
                > 'Oldstyle', 'Humanist sans', 'Grotesque sans', etc. When I wanted a
                > transitional face for a project (but wasn't sure which one), I didn't
                > have to scroll through Jenson, Caslon, Minion, Bodoni, etc.; I could
                > search for 'Transitional' and immediately see that I could choose
                > from Baskerville, Bell, Caledonia, etc.
                >
                > >I've got Font Agent and Font Explorer X but I gave up on Fusion when
                > >the initial try out app (a year or so ago?) opened up as an Excel
                > >file. Figured if they hadn't figured that out, not worth going much
                > >further with it.
                >
                > That's a bummer. It's better now.
                >
                > Fun to talk type with you.
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Dan Franklin
                ... Could be. I m a single user. G4, Mac OS 10.3.9 (9.2.2). For me, Fusion is so much faster than Font Reserve and is pretty intuitive right out of the box. No
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 3, 2007
                  Kayle warned:

                  >I would strongly urge people to wait to use Fusion; they still have
                  >a lot of work to do on it, at least on the Mac platform. ... I'm
                  >glad to hear, for Dan's sake, that he has not had issues, but I
                  >believe he may be in the minority.

                  Could be.

                  I'm a single user. G4, Mac OS 10.3.9 (9.2.2). For me, Fusion is so
                  much faster than Font Reserve and is pretty intuitive right out of
                  the box. No crashes. Small annoyances, which I have forwarded to
                  Extensis.
                • Gerald Lange
                  Dan Thanks for the information. Looks like I need to seriously check this all out. I ve a project in the works with MM Kepler and was dreading the interaction
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 3, 2007
                    Dan

                    Thanks for the information. Looks like I need to seriously check this
                    all out. I've a project in the works with MM Kepler and was dreading
                    the interaction in Indy. Looks like it will all work out based on what
                    you have provided.

                    Thanks again.

                    Gerald
                    http://BielerPress.blogspot.com




                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Dan Franklin <dan@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi, Gerald.
                    >
                    > >Have you installed a complete MM font (parents and instances) that
                    > >works in Indy?
                    >
                    > Yes.
                    >
                    > >And wouldn't an instance of an optically mastered font be a
                    singular entity?
                    >
                    > Yes, but read on ...
                    >
                    > >I'm a bit confused by the statement "you can tell InDesign, by way
                    > >of preferences, to automatically select the correct optical size
                    > >from an MM font that has an optical axis."
                    >
                    > If you have 'Automatically Use Correct Optical Size' checked in
                    > Preferences, you get the optical size closest to the point size of
                    > the type.
                    >
                    > Here's an example (and an experiment):
                    >
                    > You have Minion MM Roman installed with these instances, among others:
                    >
                    > 367 wt 600 wd 10 op (normal weight, slightly wider than normal width,
                    > 10-point optical size)
                    > 367 wt 600 wd 14 op
                    > 367 wt 600 wd 18 op
                    > 367 wt 600 wd 24 op
                    >
                    > Type two 24-pt cap aitches side by side. Swipe one and select
                    > 367-600-10; swipe the other and select 367-600-24. If you have
                    > 'Automatically Use Correct Optical Size' selected in Preferences,
                    > both aitches look identical (because InDesign is using the 367-600-24
                    > instance -- even though the font indicator shows Minion MM Roman, 367
                    > wt 600 wd 10 op for the first, and Minion MM Roman, 367 wt 600 wd 24
                    > op for the second).
                    >
                    > Now turn off that preference. You will see the 367-600-10 aitch
                    > change (for example, the bar and the serifs will thicken, as you
                    > would expect with a 10-pt optical size).
                    >
                    > Turn the preference on again, and the aitches appear identical.
                    >
                    > >Not sure what you mean by correct optical size (well, I know what a
                    > >correct optical size is, but isn't this dependent upon a user
                    > >configured instance?).
                    >
                    > For 20-pt type, InDesign auto-selects 367-600-18; for 22-pt type, it
                    > auto-selects 367-600-24; for 21-pt type (exactly halfway between 18
                    > and 24), it auto-selects 367-600-18 (the lower optical size value).
                    >
                    > >Is this capability because of how Fusion treats fonts? Font Explorer
                    > >X sure doesn't cater much to a complete MM font (parents and all).
                    > >How does this work?
                    >
                    > I don't know. I use Fusion, which I love, because I used its
                    > predecessor, Font Reserve, and I used Font Reserve because it allowed
                    > me to classify/search my fonts by traditional designations, like
                    > 'Oldstyle', 'Humanist sans', 'Grotesque sans', etc. When I wanted a
                    > transitional face for a project (but wasn't sure which one), I didn't
                    > have to scroll through Jenson, Caslon, Minion, Bodoni, etc.; I could
                    > search for 'Transitional' and immediately see that I could choose
                    > from Baskerville, Bell, Caledonia, etc.
                    >
                    > >I've got Font Agent and Font Explorer X but I gave up on Fusion when
                    > >the initial try out app (a year or so ago?) opened up as an Excel
                    > >file. Figured if they hadn't figured that out, not worth going much
                    > >further with it.
                    >
                    > That's a bummer. It's better now.
                    >
                    > Fun to talk type with you.
                    >
                  • Gerald Lange
                    PPL Actually, I was hoping some of the folks involved in the recent letterpress revival, the stationery/invitational card folks, would have responded to this.
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 3, 2007
                      PPL

                      Actually, I was hoping some of the folks involved in the recent
                      letterpress revival, the stationery/invitational card folks, would
                      have responded to this. Truth be told though, I can't really find
                      their representation on any of the letterpress lists. Not sure what
                      that says. Insular? Competitive? Letterpress is a selling point, but
                      no real further, deeper interest?

                      Gerald
                      http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                    • Lance Williams
                      Well, As a stationery printer for over 25 years, and the business for over 73 years, I ll chime in here a little.... I can t say what my personal favorite
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 4, 2007
                        Well,

                        As a stationery printer for over 25 years, and the business for over 73
                        years, I'll chime in here a little.... I can't say what my personal
                        favorite faces are, it all depends on what I am working on at the time.
                        However, we have always limited out stationery lines to a few specific
                        faces for two reasons:

                        1: Ease of selling the stationery, as we sell "door to door" through
                        school groups, church groups, etc, and by having only a few type styles
                        makes it easier, especially for the younger salespeople.

                        2: Easier for us, as we don't have to change magazines in our Intertypes
                        as we set type. We currently have one Model C with 2 mags with duplex
                        faces, giving us a total of 6 usable type styles on that machine, and the
                        other Model C has 5 usable type styles. We also use 3 faces on our Ludlow,
                        even though we have many more for other uses.

                        First Model C: 10 Pt. Helvetica w/italic, 12 Pt. Bernard Fashion w/ Park
                        Ave & 12 Pt. Engravers Text w/Typo Roman.

                        2nd Model C: 11 Pt. Times Roman w/ Italic, 14 Pt. Waverly w/ italic, 18 pt.
                        Vogue Oblique.

                        Ludlow: 18 Pt. Society Text, 18 pt. Tempo Light Italic, 24 pt. Coronet

                        These are the various faces we have used on our stationery products for
                        more than the past 25 years. However, I am currently in the process of
                        adding several magazines of mats to offer some new faces to the line to see
                        if it will help improve sales. I think our line has become somewhat
                        "stale" over the years, and needs some "modernization" to infuse a little
                        more life in it...

                        Well, have to cut this short, as I have to make/eat breakfast and get to
                        work....

                        - Lance Williams
                        Williams Stationery Co.
                        Camden, New York
                        APA #785


                        > [Original Message]
                        > From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@...>
                        > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Date: 1/4/2007 2:42:04 AM
                        > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: best-loved faces
                        >
                        > PPL
                        >
                        > Actually, I was hoping some of the folks involved in the recent
                        > letterpress revival, the stationery/invitational card folks, would
                        > have responded to this. Truth be told though, I can't really find
                        > their representation on any of the letterpress lists. Not sure what
                        > that says. Insular? Competitive? Letterpress is a selling point, but
                        > no real further, deeper interest?
                        >
                        > Gerald
                        > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • lisa rappoport
                        ... Hi Gerald, As someone who prints invitations, along with other commercial work and my own personal work, the answer seems clear: One s own favorite faces
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 4, 2007
                          >Actually, I was hoping some of the folks involved in the recent
                          >letterpress revival, the stationery/invitational card folks, would
                          >have responded to this. Truth be told though, I can't really find
                          >their representation on any of the letterpress lists. Not sure what
                          >that says. Insular? Competitive? Letterpress is a selling point, but
                          >no real further, deeper interest?

                          Hi Gerald,
                          As someone who prints invitations, along with other commercial work and my own personal work, the answer seems clear: One's own favorite faces are generally irrelevant. The customer will select the face, esp. if you're going the polymer plate route, in which case they can choose from whatever digital font, suitable or not, they've ever seen.

                          With handset metal type obviously they're limited to what I have, and within that to what I have enough of, in appropriate sizes, for the job at hand. So it's a pre-selected selection.

                          My house font has always been Centaur. I'm also very drawn to Garamond, esp. the italic; Bernhard Gothic, esp. the light weight; and some oddities like Greeting Monotone (rarely appropriate, but wonderful in the right usage) and Glamour Light.

                          And I confess to some low tastes, like Park Avenue and Typo Upright.

                          Best,
                          Lisa
                          Littoral Press
                        • Gerald Lange
                          Hi Lisa Well, yes, and no. I process plates for a number of stationery/invitational card folks—some of them quite high end and prolific—and the latter will
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 4, 2007
                            Hi Lisa

                            Well, yes, and no. I process plates for a number of
                            stationery/invitational card folks—some of them quite high end and
                            prolific—and the latter will either direct their clients
                            appropriately, as designers should (I'd think), or (in regard to favs)
                            they may have a line of cards developed in which they are using their
                            own preferred faces.

                            So, I'd suggest it is not always just what the client demands but
                            often how they are directed to what they need. And, I would think, if
                            they are coming to you (generic you), they are coming for a specific
                            reason, your taste, your expertise, skill, what uniquely you have to
                            offer, etc. Yes? No?

                            Gerald
                            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com



                            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, lisa rappoport <cutvelvet@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > >Actually, I was hoping some of the folks involved in the recent
                            > >letterpress revival, the stationery/invitational card folks, would
                            > >have responded to this. Truth be told though, I can't really find
                            > >their representation on any of the letterpress lists. Not sure what
                            > >that says. Insular? Competitive? Letterpress is a selling point, but
                            > >no real further, deeper interest?
                            >
                            > Hi Gerald,
                            > As someone who prints invitations, along with other commercial work
                            and my own personal work, the answer seems clear: One's own favorite
                            faces are generally irrelevant. The customer will select the face,
                            esp. if you're going the polymer plate route, in which case they can
                            choose from whatever digital font, suitable or not, they've ever seen.
                            >

                            >
                          • juliemackenzie2003
                            Hi Gerald and Lisa- I am a custom invitation designer and also print for designers as well. I agree with Gerald, I tend to steer my clients in the directions
                            Message 13 of 13 , Jan 5, 2007
                              Hi Gerald and Lisa-

                              I am a custom invitation designer and also print for designers as
                              well.

                              I agree with Gerald, I tend to steer my clients in the directions of
                              my tried and true typefaces. I have in my early days, tried
                              different faces because it was what they liked. Often to my dismay.
                              They liked the end result, but I fussed through the entire print
                              process.

                              When time allows, I will print for an occasional designer. Not
                              always liking the design and type faces. I did one time get quite a
                              surprise on a typeface that I thought was horrible. Hard to read and
                              letters were not what I thought (in digital format) Yet when I
                              printed it. It looked quite lovely. That was Escrita Principal.

                              anyways, long story short. What the client wants is often what you
                              will recommend within their design style.

                              Thanks,
                              Julie MacKenzie
                              www.mackenziepress.com

                              > Well, yes, and no. I process plates for a number of
                              > stationery/invitational card folks—some of them quite high end and
                              > prolific—and the latter will either direct their clients
                              > appropriately, as designers should (I'd think), or (in regard to
                              favs)
                              > they may have a line of cards developed in which they are using
                              their
                              > own preferred faces.
                              >
                              > So, I'd suggest it is not always just what the client demands but
                              > often how they are directed to what they need. And, I would think,
                              if
                              > they are coming to you (generic you), they are coming for a specific
                              > reason, your taste, your expertise, skill, what uniquely you have to
                              > offer, etc. Yes? No?
                              >
                              > Gerald
                              > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
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