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Re: [PPLetterpress] plate travel

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  • Gerald Lange
    ... That information you have deleted and replaced with an ellipsis!!! Pin registration is available as mentioned (which facilitates both registration and
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 4, 2002
      Brian Molanphy wrote:
      >
      > gerald wrote in part:
      >
      > 'I've not experienced plate travel with steel-backed plates on a Bunting when
      > printing on a Vandercook...Any travel or registration problems that are the
      > result of
      > specific use instances are preventable with a properly configured base.'
      >
      > we have experienced plate travel with bunting base on a vandercook. gerald,
      > what do you mean by properly configured base?
      >
      > brian


      That information you have deleted and replaced with an ellipsis!!!

      Pin registration is available as mentioned (which facilitates both
      registration and prevents travel), as are kerfs. A cheap alternative is the
      use of a butt bar. Think we've talked about that a bit here previously.

      A properly configured base would be one that was specified by the customer
      with whatever options were needed for their specific requirements. If you are
      hot stamping and diecutting, for instance, you would want an optional steel
      base rather than aluminum as well as special adhesive films and a .010 tin
      plate interleave, optional slots cut into the base to facilitate removal,
      optional cal-rod holes, etc, etc. Of course, any options just add to the cost
      of what already is a very expensive outlay. There are other professional
      magnetic registration systems as well, UniMagnetic has a nice magnetic set up
      for brass dies.

      So, all this is to say that if you are using the bare bones no frills set up
      that is what you should expect to get. Bunting can not increase the magnetism
      much more or you would not be able to lift the plate up from the base!!! I
      cannot pull a plate off a Bunting by pulling it sideways, but I easily can on
      a Patmag. I love to give that demo!!! I'll have to try that on a Boxcar since
      Harold does claim in his catalog that his base "holds printing plates better
      than any other repositionable method on the market."

      I would be very interested in knowing the circumstance under which the plate
      traveled.

      Gerald
    • Gerald Lange
      ... Brian and Harold Some final statements for my part, there is only so much one can say about this without endlessly repeating the same stuff over and over:
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 5, 2002
        Brian Molanphy wrote:
        >
        > sorry to trim yer message. i thought pin registration referred to paper not
        > plate, and i dunno what a kerf is. harold refers to 'blanks' to hold the
        > printing plate in place. i guess this means a polymer plate with no printing
        > image. and i guess a butt bar is a piece of furniture higher than the base
        > but shorter than type high, which abutts both the base and the edge of the
        > plate? to use this a printer must line up the plate edge with base edge?
        >
        > the plate travel on the bunting base occurs like harold says: big solids with
        > heavy impression move the plate away from the feedboard. worse than solids
        > are half-tones, in my limited experience.
        >

        Brian and Harold

        Some final statements for my part, there is only so much one can say about
        this without endlessly repeating the same stuff over and over:

        I use blanks (cut pieces of plate material) to facilitate registration. If a
        plate is off by a measure in one corner, I move the one blank that measure and
        pick up the plate and slide it in position. I think the blanks prevent drift
        as well (as I keep them in position), and may be why I have not experienced
        plate travel (?). On a Bunting I use a padding knife or rounded bookbinders
        knife and slide that a bit under the plate until it releases, using the broad
        edge of the knife as lift, so I don't experience bent plates either. If you
        just lift one corner and pull back diagonally you will experience bending with
        any steel backed plate on any magnetic base. I have found you do not have to
        release a steel backed completely to make the adjustment, one edge can remain
        in contact with the base and the plate is just slid into position. Because of
        this, I don't experience the bent plate problem. I have found this to be more
        of a characteristic when you do use adhesives as you are then countering the
        natural lift of the plate. (Truth be told, I diagonally removed the plastic
        backed plate from the Boxcar base and the adhesive stretched and bunched up
        and was unusable. Sorry, Harold!!!)

        A kerf is simply an incision or line cut across the surface of the base. These
        are quite common in bases used for straight-line scoring and the like (the
        cutting blade is inserted into them). They can prevent travel because the
        surface disturbance provides friction. You would not want these direct under
        printable image though. Yes, Brian, you are correct on the purpose of a butt
        bar. I've only used these on a Patmag, not on a Bunting. And yes, pin
        registration is a low profile registration pin plugged into the base. I could
        be remembering wrong but I thought that Bradley Hutchinson once told me he
        used these on Patmags as well. Bradley?

        Gerald
      • Brian Molanphy
        gerald, sorry to trim yer message. i thought pin registration referred to paper not plate, and i dunno what a kerf is. harold refers to blanks to hold the
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 5, 2002
          gerald,

          sorry to trim yer message. i thought pin registration referred to paper not
          plate, and i dunno what a kerf is. harold refers to 'blanks' to hold the
          printing plate in place. i guess this means a polymer plate with no printing
          image. and i guess a butt bar is a piece of furniture higher than the base
          but shorter than type high, which abutts both the base and the edge of the
          plate? to use this a printer must line up the plate edge with base edge?

          the plate travel on the bunting base occurs like harold says: big solids with
          heavy impression move the plate away from the feedboard. worse than solids
          are half-tones, in my limited experience.

          brian





          Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 13:34:06 +0000
          From: Gerald Lange <bieler@...>
          Subject: Re: plate travel

          Brian Molanphy wrote:
          >
          > gerald wrote in part:
          >
          > 'I've not experienced plate travel with steel-backed plates on a Bunting
          when
          > printing on a Vandercook...Any travel or registration problems that are the
          > result of
          > specific use instances are preventable with a properly configured base.'
          >
          > we have experienced plate travel with bunting base on a vandercook. gerald,
          > what do you mean by properly configured base?
          >
          > brian


          That information you have deleted and replaced with an ellipsis!!!

          Pin registration is available as mentioned (which facilitates both
          registration and prevents travel), as are kerfs. A cheap alternative is the
          use of a butt bar. Think we've talked about that a bit here previously.

          A properly configured base would be one that was specified by the customer
          with whatever options were needed for their specific requirements. If you are
          hot stamping and diecutting, for instance, you would want an optional steel
          base rather than aluminum as well as special adhesive films and a .010 tin
          plate interleave, optional slots cut into the base to facilitate removal,
          optional cal-rod holes, etc, etc. Of course, any options just add to the cost
          of what already is a very expensive outlay. There are other professional
          magnetic registration systems as well, UniMagnetic has a nice magnetic set up
          for brass dies.

          So, all this is to say that if you are using the bare bones no frills set up
          that is what you should expect to get. Bunting can not increase the magnetism
          much more or you would not be able to lift the plate up from the base!!! I
          cannot pull a plate off a Bunting by pulling it sideways, but I easily can on
          a Patmag. I love to give that demo!!! I'll have to try that on a Boxcar since
          Harold does claim in his catalog that his base "holds printing plates better
          than any other repositionable method on the market."

          I would be very interested in knowing the circumstance under which the plate
          traveled.

          Gerald



          ________________________________________________
        • Joel Benson
          All concerned, I love the handiness of the Bunting base- plates are quickly and accurately repositionable, and in very small increments, which really speeds
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 5, 2002
            All concerned,

            I love the handiness of the Bunting base- plates are quickly and accurately repositionable, and in very small increments, which really speeds the set-up time. To my mind, therin lies the "economy" of the Buntings. But that plate-creep can be a real bugaboo, esp. if you need very accurate register. Spray adhesive, tape on the edge of the plate, butted up pieces of blank plate material- all those remedies have failed me when the plate has decided it must creep. I never tried a butt bar or the pin system, but those sound pretty workable in the right situation.

            I like the solidity of the metal-backed plates over the floppiness of the plastic backed, though I admit that the plastic ones are a lot easier to work with. Easier to cut, no sharp edges, see-through quality is nice.

            I am most impressed, however, with that adhesive that Harold sells to attach plates to the Boxcar Base, and the next time I have a creep problem I am going to stick some of that onto my metal backed plate and I bet my problem goes away!

            Joel

            Joel Benson
            Dependable Letterpress
            San Francisco

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Brian Molanphy [mailto:bmolanphy@...]
            Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 1:41 PM
            To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [PPLetterpress] RE:plate travel



            gerald,

            sorry to trim yer message. i thought pin registration referred to paper not
            plate, and i dunno what a kerf is. harold refers to 'blanks' to hold the
            printing plate in place. i guess this means a polymer plate with no printing
            image. and i guess a butt bar is a piece of furniture higher than the base
            but shorter than type high, which abutts both the base and the edge of the
            plate? to use this a printer must line up the plate edge with base edge?

            the plate travel on the bunting base occurs like harold says: big solids with
            heavy impression move the plate away from the feedboard. worse than solids
            are half-tones, in my limited experience.

            brian
          • bielerpr
            Haven t done a large solid in years, but used to use photoengraved plates on a honeycomb base to do so (I still do if I m working with a four color job).
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 5, 2002
              Haven't done a large solid in years, but used to use photoengraved
              plates on a honeycomb base to do so (I still do if I'm working with a
              four color job). These always seemed to work out well registration-
              wise but getting adequate ink coverage was the problem unless I opted
              for copper—usually only did this when I needed to capture detail).
              Photopolymer is a much more receptive printing surface but if there
              is a tendency for the plate to travel, as the concensus here seems to
              indicate, probably safer to stick with the honeycomb base and deal
              with the inking problem?

              Gerald


              "Joel Benson" <joel.benson@p...> wrote:
              But that plate-creep can be a real bugaboo, esp. if you need very
              accurate register. Spray adhesive, tape on the edge of the plate,
              butted up pieces of blank plate material- all those remedies have
              failed me when the plate has decided it must creep.
              >

              >
              > the plate travel on the bunting base occurs like harold says: big solids =
              with
              > heavy impression move the plate away from the feedboard. worse than solid=
              s
              > are half-tones, in my limited experience.
              >
              > brian
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