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Re: Alternative Bases

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  • bielerpr
    ... I tested out a Boxcar Base (w/anodized grid) and plate for the first time last night. It is a thing of beauty and while I am not a fan of plastic-backed
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 3 10:50 AM
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      --- In PPLetterpress@y..., Katie Harper <knharper@f...> wrote:
      > I'm wondering if there alternative bases (read not so expensive) to the
      > Boxcar or Bunting. I have been using wood, but find it to be inconsistent,
      > even when carefully planed. Any suggestions?


      I tested out a Boxcar Base (w/anodized grid) and plate for the first
      time last night. It is a thing of beauty and while I am not a fan of
      plastic-backed plates and using film or spray adhesives, it worked
      out quite well. The film adhesive seems much less problematic than
      others I have worked with. I was impressed. I certainly would
      recommend this as an economic alternative to the Bunting, especially
      for institutional uses. I wasn't able to test this for travel so at
      this point I can't verify the claim that they don't.

      I also tested this out on a film negative sent to me from Xante which
      was produced on one of their 2400dpi laser printers w/film neg
      processing. That, surprisingly, worked out well also. Even the small
      3pt type on the neg rendered and printed well given the fact that I
      was working on a press I was a bit unfamiliar with and not set up in
      the way I would normally want to work. This was a demo for my students.

      Think I could easily say that this is quite the combo for
      institutional/instructional use. For professional bookwork I'm still
      learning toward the Bunting.

      Gerald
    • Katie Harper
      Gerald: I would love to hear your thoughts about why the Bunting is superior. I have heard a few negative comments about plate travel. I have been using the
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 3 11:41 AM
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        Gerald: I would love to hear your thoughts about why the Bunting is
        superior. I have heard a few negative comments about plate travel. I have
        been using the Boxcar base for most of my work and have had no problems, at
        least not that cannot be traced to other causes-- but if I'm losing quality
        as a result of not using the Bunting, I would really like to know about it!


        Katie Harper
        Ars Brevis Press
        Cincinnati, OH
        513-233-9588




        > From: "bielerpr" <bieler@...>
        > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 17:50:09 -0000
        > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Alternative Bases
        >
        > --- In PPLetterpress@y..., Katie Harper <knharper@f...> wrote:
        >> I'm wondering if there alternative bases (read not so expensive) to the
        >> Boxcar or Bunting. I have been using wood, but find it to be inconsistent,
        >> even when carefully planed. Any suggestions?
        >
        >
        > I tested out a Boxcar Base (w/anodized grid) and plate for the first
        > time last night. It is a thing of beauty and while I am not a fan of
        > plastic-backed plates and using film or spray adhesives, it worked
        > out quite well. The film adhesive seems much less problematic than
        > others I have worked with. I was impressed. I certainly would
        > recommend this as an economic alternative to the Bunting, especially
        > for institutional uses. I wasn't able to test this for travel so at
        > this point I can't verify the claim that they don't.
        >
        > I also tested this out on a film negative sent to me from Xante which
        > was produced on one of their 2400dpi laser printers w/film neg
        > processing. That, surprisingly, worked out well also. Even the small
        > 3pt type on the neg rendered and printed well given the fact that I
        > was working on a press I was a bit unfamiliar with and not set up in
        > the way I would normally want to work. This was a demo for my students.
        >
        > Think I could easily say that this is quite the combo for
        > institutional/instructional use. For professional bookwork I'm still
        > learning toward the Bunting.
        >
        > Gerald
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Gerald Lange
        ... Katie I’ve not experienced plate travel with steel-backed plates on a Bunting when printing on a Vandercook. I know others have when printing solids on a
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 3 3:02 PM
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          Katie Harper wrote:
          >
          > Gerald: I would love to hear your thoughts about why the Bunting is
          > superior. I have heard a few negative comments about plate travel. I have
          > been using the Boxcar base for most of my work and have had no problems, at
          > least not that cannot be traced to other causes-- but if I'm losing quality
          > as a result of not using the Bunting, I would really like to know about it!
          >

          > >
          > > --- In PPLetterpress@y..., Katie Harper <knharper@f...> wrote:
          > >> I'm wondering if there alternative bases (read not so expensive) to the
          > >> Boxcar or Bunting. I have been using wood, but find it to be inconsistent,
          > >> even when carefully planed. Any suggestions?
          > >


          Katie

          I’ve not experienced plate travel with steel-backed plates on a Bunting when
          printing on a Vandercook. I know others have when printing solids on a
          Heidleberg and similar presses. I’ve not heard from other printers that a
          Boxcar base solves this problem.

          It should be said that the Bunting Cerface was developed specifically for the
          printing industry and is available with options, such as kerfs, scribe lines,
          pin registration. They are customizable for a variety of printing
          applications. Any travel or registration problems that are the result of
          specific use instances are preventable with a properly configured base.

          But this is a bit perplexing to me. You said previously you were using wood
          bases and your inquiry concerned the Patmag; now you say you use the Boxcar.
          (Are you just fishing?)



          Is not “quality” determined by the artifact? The work process itself is only
          the road. That one tool or one material is better than other can be determined
          by how well that road was traveled. I was told once to look to the work of
          printers I admired. Good advice.

          Gerald
        • Harold Kyle
          Gerry: Thanks for sharing your positive experience with the Boxcar Base. I d like to respond to some of your recent comments... ... Plate travel on a
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 5 7:03 AM
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            Gerry:

            Thanks for sharing your positive experience with the Boxcar Base. I'd like
            to respond to some of your recent comments...

            On 7/3/02 6:02 PM, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...> wrote:
            > I've not experienced plate travel with steel-backed plates on a Bunting when
            > printing on a Vandercook. I know others have when printing solids on a
            > Heidleberg and similar presses.

            Plate travel on a Vandercook with Buntings is what got me started with
            non-magnetic bases in the first place. This is not likely to happen in
            bookwork, Gerry, but with large solids and heavy impression the plate tends
            to move away from the feedboard--often in 1/16" increments.

            I've talked with other printers who have experienced this as well. They
            often remedy the creep with spray adhesive, scotch tape, or large "blanks"
            butted up at the tail end of the printing plate to block the movement. Spray
            adhesive and scotch tape are non-magnetic, I might add. Magnets are very
            good at holding down, but they don't hold things quite as well side to side.

            > I've not heard from other printers that a Boxcar base solves this problem.

            Well, if the Boxcar Base doesn't solve plate creep, then we offer a full
            refund (and we have not needed to issue any refunds yet). This I've of
            perfect register applies to all plates larger than 0.5" by 0.5" mounted as
            recommended in our owner's manual. Creep has never been an issue with a
            Boxcar Base.

            > It should be said that the Bunting Cerface was developed specifically for the
            > printing industry and ....any travel or registration problems that are the
            > result of specific use instances are preventable with a properly configured
            > base.

            It sounds as if you're implying that the Bunting Cerface is unique because
            it was made specifically for the printing industry. However, the Boxcar Base
            was developed specifically for letterpress and therefore is perfectly suited
            to the needs of letterpress printers. The Boxcar Base uses the same mounting
            system as much of the flexo and rotary letterpress industry, and I think
            it's safe to say that more polymer plates are mounted by adhesive in "the
            industry" than by magnets.

            I wasn't aware of the pin registration system for Buntings. Do you need a
            punch to make holes in the plate? Are there posts or holes on the surface of
            the Bunting which limit the size of plates that you can use? Could you
            elaborate on how the kerfs fight plate drift? Do these kerfs limit where you
            can put the plate on the surface?

            Buntings are very well machined bases, and for bookwork I would agree that
            they provide a wonderful printing surface. But the Boxcar Bases do give
            plates' stronger shear strength, weaker peal strength (for easier
            repositioning), and are priced much more affordably. Assuming that for a
            specific job you don't experience plate drift with a Bunting, the printing
            quality with a Bunting and a Boxcar Base is identical.

            I feel with the current technology that the Boxcar Base is the best system,
            but we're always looking for ways to improve - if you experience any
            specific shortcomings while using the Boxcar Base, please let me know!

            Re: more affordable bases.
            "More affordable" bases often aren't made to the precise tolerances of a
            Boxcar Base, and prove to be more expensive because of time involved to hang
            excessive makeready, multiplied by every press run. Our bases nowadays come
            in well below our guaranteed tolerances and in many cases only have .0003"
            variation across the surface. This eliminates much of the makeready that
            would face the user of a poorly machined base. Boxcar Press has dependable
            bases on our shelves, ready to ship, backed with a guarantee--so you
            shouldn't have to go through the hassle of making a base yourself when the
            results probably won't be as consistent.

            Harold

            ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
            Boxcar Press
            Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
            640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
            315-473-0930 ~ phone and fax
            www.boxcarpress.com
            ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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