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Re: [PPLetterpress] Rollers...?

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  • typetom@aol.com
    In a message dated 11/30/2006, londonbellman@yahoo.com writes: For a 10x15 is it possible to print well with 3 rollers on the press instead 4? The reason I
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 1, 2006
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      In a message dated 11/30/2006, londonbellman@... writes:

      For a 10x15 is it possible to print well with 3 rollers on the press instead
      4? The reason I ask is American printing supply sells a set of three even
      though the press holds four. Why is this? I am guessing that three would do
      the trick if your are not running it with an auto feeder?

      Hi London,
      I have never seen a 10x15 C&P with four rollers unless one is an oscillating
      or vibrating roller riding above the top two rollers. A vibrating roller
      adds more ink to the system and refills two of the rollers during the inking, so
      offers better coverage when the form is large.

      The 12x18 C&P Craftsman has four form rollers, but a normal 10x15 does not.
      The press can print fine even with only two rollers, but of course that
      wouldn't be true for printing a large form or designs that need solid areas to be
      inked. It's also possible to get additional ink to the type by using the
      throw-off lever to let the press ink more than once. Many ways to get across if
      you need to....
      Best wishes,
      Tom

      Tom Parson
      Now It's Up To You Publications
      157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
      (303) 777-8951
      http://members.aol.com/typetom


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lance Williams
      The 10x15 Craftsman has 4 rollers. Both the hand-fed models and the auto-feed models. We have them both... The addition of the lower double roller bracket
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 1, 2006
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        The 10x15 Craftsman has 4 rollers. Both the hand-fed models and the
        auto-feed models. We have them both... The addition of the lower double
        roller bracket was one of the improvements to give better inking on larger
        forms over the standard 10x15 new series....

        That being said, however, I can say that you can print just fine with just
        a pair of rollers unless you are doing heavy coverage, large faces or large
        solids. We run our 10x15 with Rice feeder with just a pair of rollers all
        the time, but we are also just printing 8 to 12 lines of 12 or 14 point
        type on the front of glassine envelopes, and we have a full fountain
        attached to maintain ink levels evenly.

        On the 10x15 hand fed, we have been printing the front and back of
        booklets, where the back side is pretty full coverage of 3x8 inches with
        some large bold faces, and to get really good inking, we do need to run
        with all 4 rollers.

        I would not try to run with just 3 rollers because the saddle brackets
        would not support the single roller properly, and might snap from stress in
        the operation of the press.... If you could find a set of single hooks
        from a 10x15NS, they might fit the Craftsman to give you a single roller
        holder...

        - Lance Williams
        Williams Stationery Co.
        Camden, New York
        APA #785


        > [Original Message]
        > From: <typetom@...>
        > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
        > Date: 12/1/2006 3:42:55 AM
        > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Rollers...?
        >
        >
        > In a message dated 11/30/2006, londonbellman@... writes:
        >
        > For a 10x15 is it possible to print well with 3 rollers on the press
        instead
        > 4? The reason I ask is American printing supply sells a set of three
        even
        > though the press holds four. Why is this? I am guessing that three would
        do
        > the trick if your are not running it with an auto feeder?
        >
        > Hi London,
        > I have never seen a 10x15 C&P with four rollers unless one is an
        oscillating
        > or vibrating roller riding above the top two rollers. A vibrating roller
        > adds more ink to the system and refills two of the rollers during the
        inking, so
        > offers better coverage when the form is large.
        >
        > The 12x18 C&P Craftsman has four form rollers, but a normal 10x15 does
        not.
        > The press can print fine even with only two rollers, but of course that
        > wouldn't be true for printing a large form or designs that need solid
        areas to be
        > inked. It's also possible to get additional ink to the type by using the
        > throw-off lever to let the press ink more than once. Many ways to get
        across if
        > you need to....
        > Best wishes,
        > Tom
        >
        > Tom Parson
        > Now It's Up To You Publications
        > 157 S. Logan, Denver CO 80209
        > (303) 777-8951
        > http://members.aol.com/typetom
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Warren Gailbreath, Jr.
        I would guess that the rollers American packages in three is done that way because they know you need four and figure if they design it so that you only get
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 1, 2006
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          I would guess that the rollers American packages in
          three is done that way because they know you need four
          and figure if they design it so that you only get
          three, you will buy the other three to complete your
          set of four adding to their profit margin.

          Food for thought.


          Warren Gailbreath,Jr.
          Southwest Finishing, Inc.
          Ft.Worth, Texas
        • speedgray@aol.com
          Listers: Not all 10x15 C&Ps had four form rollers. I have a Model N from the mid-60s that has only three form rollers. But, even with heavy coverage and
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 1, 2006
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            Listers:

            Not all 10x15 C&Ps had four form rollers. I have a Model N from the mid-60s
            that has only three form rollers. But, even with heavy coverage and using the
            oscillators, I have never had an instance of poor ink coverage or ghosting.

            However, don't run a single roller in a tandem saddle without carefully
            checking the motion of the press by turning it over by hand through a complete
            cycle.

            I am sometimes curious as to the hesitation by printers regarding purchasing
            good rollers. Seems there is always someone trying to take some shortcuts to
            stretch the life out of rollers in poor condition. In my opinion, there is
            nothing more important to spend your letterpress money on than good rollers.
            Without smooth, even rollers on your press, you cannot do your best work. When
            the rollers get hard, cracked, pitted, or begin reverting put them in the
            trash and buy new. High quality rubber rollers will last for years when taken
            care of. It's the best money you can spend in your printshop.

            Speed Gray, APA 736
            Letterpress Green Sheet
            Ada, MI


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • parallel_imp
            ... [. . .] ... stress in ... Lance, are the Craftsman rollers identical to regular C&P rollers? If so it should be possible to take an old bare core, put
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 1, 2006
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              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Lance Williams"
              <lwwill7999@...> wrote:
              >
              > The 10x15 Craftsman has 4 rollers.
              [. . .]

              > I would not try to run with just 3 rollers because the saddle brackets
              > would not support the single roller properly, and might snap from
              stress in
              > the operation of the press....

              Lance, are the Craftsman rollers identical to regular C&P rollers? If
              so it should be possible to take an old bare core, put trucks on it
              and place it in the fourth position to balance the saddle.
              --Eric Holub, SF
            • Keith Berger
              Is there any place that remanufactures tandem saddles that has the oscillator roller? Keith Leaders in yesterday s technology. *** The Graphic Touch
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 1, 2006
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                Is there any place that remanufactures tandem saddles that has the
                oscillator roller?

                Keith


                Leaders in yesterday's technology.
                ***
                The Graphic Touch Letterpress Company
                Salem, Ohio
                800-433-1288
                On Dec 1, 2006, at 9:08 AM, speedgray@... wrote:

                > Listers:
                >
                > Not all 10x15 C&Ps had four form rollers. I have a Model N from the
                > mid-60s
                > that has only three form rollers. But, even with heavy coverage and
                > using the
                > oscillators, I have never had an instance of poor ink coverage or
                > ghosting.
                >
                > However, don't run a single roller in a tandem saddle without
                > carefully
                > checking the motion of the press by turning it over by hand through a
                > complete
                > cycle.
                >
                > I am sometimes curious as to the hesitation by printers regarding
                > purchasing
                > good rollers. Seems there is always someone trying to take some
                > shortcuts to
                > stretch the life out of rollers in poor condition. In my opinion,
                > there is
                > nothing more important to spend your letterpress money on than good
                > rollers.
                > Without smooth, even rollers on your press, you cannot do your best
                > work. When
                > the rollers get hard, cracked, pitted, or begin reverting put them in
                > the
                > trash and buy new. High quality rubber rollers will last for years
                > when taken
                > care of. It's the best money you can spend in your printshop.
                >
                > Speed Gray, APA 736
                > Letterpress Green Sheet
                > Ada, MI
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
              • John G. Henry
                Speed: You re right on regarding good rollers. If you amortize the life of the rollers, you re talking about pennies a day. I still use composition rollers for
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 1, 2006
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                  Speed:

                  You're right on regarding good rollers.

                  If you amortize the life of the rollers, you're talking about
                  pennies a day.

                  I still use composition rollers for numbering on my Union Treadle
                  press because the roller springs are not tight enough to overcome
                  the durometer of the rubber rollers and the plunger numbering
                  machines I use. No problems on my Little Giant with that, however,
                  so I use rubber all the time.

                  I think most of us are penny-pinchers at heart, and would rather
                  spend our money on some gadget or interesting equipment than on
                  rollers. For the same reason, there are a lot of houses across the
                  country in need of paint or new plumbing, but contain 50" plasma
                  screen TVs.

                  John Henry
                  Cedar Creek Press

                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, speedgray@... wrote:
                  >
                  > I am sometimes curious as to the hesitation by printers regarding
                  purchasing
                  > good rollers. Seems there is always someone trying to take some
                  shortcuts to
                  > stretch the life out of rollers in poor condition. In my opinion,
                  there is
                  > nothing more important to spend your letterpress money on than
                  good rollers.
                  > Without smooth, even rollers on your press, you cannot do your
                  best work. When
                  > the rollers get hard, cracked, pitted, or begin reverting put them
                  in the
                  > trash and buy new. High quality rubber rollers will last for years
                  when taken
                  > care of. It's the best money you can spend in your printshop.
                  >
                  > Speed Gray, APA 736
                  > Letterpress Green Sheet
                  > Ada, MI
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Scott Rubel
                  I have a few 10X15 C&P preses and they all only have three rollers. --Scott
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 1, 2006
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                    I have a few 10X15 C&P preses and they all only have three rollers. --Scott

                    londonbellman wrote:

                    >One more question... For a 10x15 is it possible to print well with 3 rollers on the press
                    >instead 4? The reason I ask is American printing supply sells a set of three even though
                    >the press holds four. Why is this? I am guessing that three would do the trick if your are
                    >not running it with an auto feeder? Is this correct or am I way off base? Thanks
                    >again,London
                    >
                  • Gary Mordhorst
                    The C+P Old Series and New Series, 12 X 18 and smaller all have three rollers. All C+P Craftsman and C+P 14 1/2 X 22 have four form rollers. A press that is
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 1, 2006
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                      The C+P Old Series and New Series, 12 X 18 and smaller all have three rollers. All C+P Craftsman and C+P 14 1/2 X 22 have four form rollers. A press that is designed to use four rollers will not work properly with three, as the roller hooks are a pair of two on each roller arm.

                      Best regards,

                      Gary Mordhorst
                      AccuColor Plus, Inc.
                      2134 W. Division
                      Chicago, IL 60622

                      www.accucolor.com

                      (773) 227-7788



                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Scott Rubel
                      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:22 AM
                      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Rollers...?


                      I have a few 10X15 C&P preses and they all only have three rollers. --Scott

                      londonbellman wrote:

                      >One more question... For a 10x15 is it possible to print well with 3 rollers on the press
                      >instead 4? The reason I ask is American printing supply sells a set of three even though
                      >the press holds four. Why is this? I am guessing that three would do the trick if your are
                      >not running it with an auto feeder? Is this correct or am I way off base? Thanks
                      >again,London
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • dredaker
                      Hello my name is Don and I am new to the discussion group and I am more of a machinist than a printer as I am just getting back into letterpress printing after
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 1, 2006
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                        Hello my name is Don and I am new to the discussion group and I am
                        more of a machinist than a printer as I am just getting back into
                        letterpress printing after thirty years . Therefore I plan to do more
                        watching and learning than commenting.
                        However on the subject of roller carriers, having rebuilt presses,
                        there is a key way on the double hook carriers to prevent the head
                        from turning and being caught between the bed and platen and not on
                        the single head carriers, this would need to be addressed if a double
                        head is put in instead of a single head

                        Don Hildred
                        The ReNonsense Man
                        LaPorte Colorado
                      • speedgray@aol.com
                        Don: There is a keyway on the double saddle, but not on the single. If the double saddle were to get twisted (if there was not a keyway) when running the
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 1, 2006
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                          Don:

                          There is a keyway on the double saddle, but not on the single. If the double
                          saddle were to get twisted (if there was not a keyway) when running the
                          press with no rollers, doing diecutting for example, it could become severely
                          damaged by hitting roller ways, or other nearby parts of the press.

                          Speed Gray, APA 736
                          Ada, MI


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • london bellman
                          Thanks to everyone for the roller help. It does have four rollers on the C and P Craftsman as a few of you stated. Good to know not run it with three. Thanks
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 1, 2006
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                            Thanks to everyone for the roller help. It does have
                            four rollers on the C and P Craftsman as a few of you
                            stated. Good to know not run it with three. Thanks to
                            all .Regards,London
                            --- Gary Mordhorst <gary@...> wrote:

                            > The C+P Old Series and New Series, 12 X 18 and
                            > smaller all have three rollers. All C+P Craftsman
                            > and C+P 14 1/2 X 22 have four form rollers. A press
                            > that is designed to use four rollers will not work
                            > properly with three, as the roller hooks are a pair
                            > of two on each roller arm.
                            >
                            > Best regards,
                            >
                            > Gary Mordhorst
                            > AccuColor Plus, Inc.
                            > 2134 W. Division
                            > Chicago, IL 60622
                            >
                            > www.accucolor.com
                            >
                            > (773) 227-7788
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Scott Rubel
                            > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:22 AM
                            > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Rollers...?
                            >
                            >
                            > I have a few 10X15 C&P preses and they all only
                            > have three rollers. --Scott
                            >
                            > londonbellman wrote:
                            >
                            > >One more question... For a 10x15 is it possible
                            > to print well with 3 rollers on the press
                            > >instead 4? The reason I ask is American printing
                            > supply sells a set of three even though
                            > >the press holds four. Why is this? I am guessing
                            > that three would do the trick if your are
                            > >not running it with an auto feeder? Is this
                            > correct or am I way off base? Thanks
                            > >again,London
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            >
                            >




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                          • wa0dfw@copper.net
                            ... I don t know about remanufacturing the tandem roller saddles, but I ve posted a photo of my pyramid roller, which is not quite an oscillator but really
                            Message 13 of 15 , Dec 2, 2006
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                              >Is there any place that remanufactures tandem saddles that has the
                              >oscillator roller?
                              >
                              I don't know about remanufacturing the tandem roller saddles, but
                              I've posted a photo of my "pyramid" roller, which is not quite an
                              oscillator but really helps the inking on my 8 x 12.

                              You can see it at:

                              http://www.twopiglets.com/kluge/parts/

                              Click on the link for "pyramid or rider roller"

                              You can easily make a rider from any suitable excess roller this way.


                              Mo
                            • wa0dfw@copper.net
                              You are exactly right, Speed. Don t ask me how I know this! ... Mo
                              Message 14 of 15 , Dec 2, 2006
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                                You are exactly right, Speed. Don't ask me how I know this!

                                :-(

                                Mo
                                >Don:
                                >
                                >There is a keyway on the double saddle, but not on the single. If the
                                > double
                                >saddle were to get twisted (if there was not a keyway) when running
                                >the
                                >press with no rollers, doing diecutting for example, it could become
                                >severely
                                >damaged by hitting roller ways, or other nearby parts of the press.
                                >
                                >Speed Gray, APA 736
                                >Ada, MI
                                >
                                >
                                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
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