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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: cutting steel backed plates

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  • Ian Bristow
    Thanks Gerald I have a set of Tin snips, I exposed my first Polymer and it looks great. It does have a Wash out unit, it is very compact but seems to work
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 11 9:19 PM
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      Thanks Gerald I have a set of Tin snips, I exposed my
      first Polymer and it looks great. It does have a Wash
      out unit, it is very compact but seems to work fine.
      Just need to find a good base, thinking of using a
      boxcar base I am just using wood right now.

      Cheers
      Ian
      --- Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote:

      > Ian
      >
      > A Kutrimmer is commonly used to cut steel-backed
      > plates. It will leave
      > a clean undisturbed edge. A paper shears or tin
      > snips would work but
      > you might have edge distortion.
      >
      > Older formulations could resist ambient light to
      > some degree but some
      > of the new formulations (specifically the
      > reconfigured Toyobo
      > Printight brand) are far more UV sensitive and it is
      > best if these do
      > not see the light of day.
      >
      > Most platemakers operate similarly. No manual?
      > http://bielerpressxi.blogspot.com/
      > A5 is quite small. Does this have a washout unit?
      >
      > Gerald
      > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Hi there, I was wondering what is commonly used to
      > cut steel backed
      > plates? I would like to find out what most people
      > are using. And how
      > light sensative are they? should they be cut under
      > certain lighting?
      > Also any advice on using a Polimero A5 platemaker
      > would be appreciated.
      > >
      > > Thanks
      > > Ian
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


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    • Gerald Lange
      Ian Congrats! Well, wood ain t so good (density and adhesive variance problems). Photopolymer is very sensitive and will give you what you ask it to do; just
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 11 9:38 PM
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        Ian

        Congrats!

        Well, wood ain't so good (density and adhesive variance problems).
        Photopolymer is very sensitive and will give you what you ask it to
        do; just be careful what you ask it to do. But the Boxcar Base is for
        polyester-backed plates as it is not magnetic. For steel-backed plates
        you would need a magnetic base such as a PatMag or Bunting. A PatMag
        is relatively comparable in cost to the Boxcar.

        Gerald
        http://BielerPress.blogspot.com



        > Thanks Gerald I have a set of Tin snips, I exposed my
        > first Polymer and it looks great. It does have a Wash
        > out unit, it is very compact but seems to work fine.
        > Just need to find a good base, thinking of using a
        > boxcar base I am just using wood right now.
        >
        > Cheers
        > Ian
        > --- Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Ian
        > >
        > > A Kutrimmer is commonly used to cut steel-backed
        > > plates. It will leave
        > > a clean undisturbed edge. A paper shears or tin
        > > snips would work but
        > > you might have edge distortion.
        > >
        > > Older formulations could resist ambient light to
        > > some degree but some
        > > of the new formulations (specifically the
        > > reconfigured Toyobo
        > > Printight brand) are far more UV sensitive and it is
        > > best if these do
        > > not see the light of day.
        > >
        > > Most platemakers operate similarly. No manual?
        > > http://bielerpressxi.blogspot.com/
        > > A5 is quite small. Does this have a washout unit?
        > >
        > > Gerald
        > > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
        > >
        > >
        > > >
        > > > Hi there, I was wondering what is commonly used to
        > > cut steel backed
        > > plates? I would like to find out what most people
        > > are using. And how
        > > light sensative are they? should they be cut under
        > > certain lighting?
        > > Also any advice on using a Polimero A5 platemaker
        > > would be appreciated.
        > > >
        > > > Thanks
        > > > Ian
      • Ian Bristow
        I would like to find out more about the PatMag Base, is there a website or number I could check? Thanks Ian ...
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 12 6:24 PM
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          I would like to find out more about the PatMag Base,
          is there a website or number I could check?

          Thanks
          Ian

          --- Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote:

          > Ian
          >
          > Congrats!
          >
          > Well, wood ain't so good (density and adhesive
          > variance problems).
          > Photopolymer is very sensitive and will give you
          > what you ask it to
          > do; just be careful what you ask it to do. But the
          > Boxcar Base is for
          > polyester-backed plates as it is not magnetic. For
          > steel-backed plates
          > you would need a magnetic base such as a PatMag or
          > Bunting. A PatMag
          > is relatively comparable in cost to the Boxcar.
          >
          > Gerald
          > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
          >
          >
          >
          > > Thanks Gerald I have a set of Tin snips, I exposed
          > my
          > > first Polymer and it looks great. It does have a
          > Wash
          > > out unit, it is very compact but seems to work
          > fine.
          > > Just need to find a good base, thinking of using a
          > > boxcar base I am just using wood right now.
          > >
          > > Cheers
          > > Ian
          > > --- Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > > Ian
          > > >
          > > > A Kutrimmer is commonly used to cut steel-backed
          > > > plates. It will leave
          > > > a clean undisturbed edge. A paper shears or tin
          > > > snips would work but
          > > > you might have edge distortion.
          > > >
          > > > Older formulations could resist ambient light to
          > > > some degree but some
          > > > of the new formulations (specifically the
          > > > reconfigured Toyobo
          > > > Printight brand) are far more UV sensitive and
          > it is
          > > > best if these do
          > > > not see the light of day.
          > > >
          > > > Most platemakers operate similarly. No manual?
          > > > http://bielerpressxi.blogspot.com/
          > > > A5 is quite small. Does this have a washout
          > unit?
          > > >
          > > > Gerald
          > > > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi there, I was wondering what is commonly
          > used to
          > > > cut steel backed
          > > > plates? I would like to find out what most
          > people
          > > > are using. And how
          > > > light sensative are they? should they be cut
          > under
          > > > certain lighting?
          > > > Also any advice on using a Polimero A5
          > platemaker
          > > > would be appreciated.
          > > > >
          > > > > Thanks
          > > > > Ian
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


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        • Gerald Lange
          Ian I have put up a downloadable PDF for you on the PatMag specifications and contact information in the Files section here. If the link below does not take
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 12 11:31 PM
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            Ian

            I have put up a downloadable PDF for you on the PatMag specifications
            and contact information in the Files section here. If the link below
            does not take you there

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/files/%20%20Reference%20materials/

            go to the PPLetterpress home page then click on Files>Reference Materials

            Gerald
            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


            >
            > I would like to find out more about the PatMag Base,
            > is there a website or number I could check?
            >
            > Thanks
            > Ian
            >
            >
          • Ian Bristow
            Hi Gerald thanks for the info, I could find nothing else on the net. I am a little sceptical about it after reading the other post about how strong the magnet
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 14 10:18 AM
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              Hi Gerald thanks for the info, I could find nothing else on the net. I am a little sceptical about it after reading the other post about how strong the magnet is on it. I am thinking of maybe going to plastic backed if it will save me time and money. I just can't afford a bunting base, we have been running offset presses without much success and are trying to do both now. But actually enjoying running the windmill instead of cursing it like we do with the offsets. Setting up shop is so expensive and hard when you are still working full time. I am looking forward to a time when the money will start coming in, instead of going out. (sorry about the Rant)

              Ian

              Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote: Ian

              I have put up a downloadable PDF for you on the PatMag specifications
              and contact information in the Files section here. If the link below
              does not take you there

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/files/%20%20Reference%20materials/

              go to the PPLetterpress home page then click on Files>Reference Materials

              Gerald
              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

              >
              > I would like to find out more about the PatMag Base,
              > is there a website or number I could check?
              >
              > Thanks
              > Ian
              >
              >






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            • Gerald Lange
              Ian If you are running a windmill then maybe a PatMag might not be the best as there will be travel without the use of adhesivess. There are a number of fine
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 14 8:00 PM
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                Ian

                If you are running a windmill then maybe a PatMag might not be the
                best as there will be travel without the use of adhesivess. There are
                a number of fine printers who do use the PatMag with excellent
                results. I never really had any problem with them but did switch to
                Buntings and never looked back. I just don't like the trouble of
                adhesives. For me a Bunting is just a raised bed. I don't have to deal
                with IT and the plate crap all the time. Just get em in register and
                party time.

                Gerald





                > Hi Gerald thanks for the info, I could find nothing else on the net.
                I am a little sceptical about it after reading the other post about
                how strong the magnet is on it. I am thinking of maybe going to
                plastic backed if it will save me time and money. I just can't afford
                a bunting base, we have been running offset presses without much
                success and are trying to do both now. But actually enjoying running
                the windmill instead of cursing it like we do with the offsets.
                Setting up shop is so expensive and hard when you are still working
                full time. I am looking forward to a time when the money will start
                coming in, instead of going out. (sorry about the Rant)
                >
                > Ian
                >
                > Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote: Ian
                >
                > I have put up a downloadable PDF for you on the PatMag specifications
                > and contact information in the Files section here. If the link below
                > does not take you there
                >
                >
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/files/%20%20Reference%20materials/
                >
                > go to the PPLetterpress home page then click on Files>Reference
                Materials
                >
                > Gerald
                > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                >
              • Isabel Chi
                Hello Ian, I fully agree with Gerald. I have a PatMag, and it is as good as a wood block...you might as well duck-tape the plate. The adhesive make the plate
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 15 10:45 AM
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                  Hello Ian,
                  I fully agree with Gerald. I have a PatMag, and it is as good as a wood block...you might as well duck-tape the plate. The adhesive make the plate stay on the PatMag, but it also takes the surface of the PatMag when you peel the plate!
                  Arh... As soon as I bought a bunting, my PatMag sits in the dark and collects dust.
                  : )
                  A bunting is a good investment.
                  I heard that the steel and Magnet prices are going up by 40% next year due to China's crazy madness production, so buying one this year might be a good idea.

                  -Isabel


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                • Gerald Lange
                  Hi Isabel I hope my pointing out that plates can travel on a PatMag wasn t taken as a condemnation of the base. I also pointed out that many fine printers do
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 15 6:20 PM
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                    Hi Isabel

                    I hope my pointing out that plates can travel on a PatMag wasn't taken
                    as a condemnation of the base. I also pointed out that many fine
                    printers do use the base and it serves them well. But the base does
                    deserve its due. Pat Reagh developed the PatMag in late 1980s and it
                    was the first economical alternative to the Bunting. And that was one
                    of the crucial ingrediants for the growth of contemporary studio
                    letterpress and the use of photopolymer plates. Had Pat not developed
                    his base I doubt we would be sitting here chatting.

                    All best

                    Gerald

                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Isabel Chi <icychi@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Ian,
                    > I fully agree with Gerald. I have a PatMag, and it is as good as a
                    wood block...you might as well duck-tape the plate. The adhesive make
                    the plate stay on the PatMag, but it also takes the surface of the
                    PatMag when you peel the plate!
                    > Arh... As soon as I bought a bunting, my PatMag sits in the dark and
                    collects dust.
                    > : )
                    > A bunting is a good investment.
                    > I heard that the steel and Magnet prices are going up by 40% next
                    year due to China's crazy madness production, so buying one this year
                    might be a good idea.
                    >
                    > -Isabel
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • cutvelvet@earthlink.net
                    I use a PatMag on a 10x15 C&P, and *usually* don t have any problem with travel. I had a lot more trouble printing with it on a Vandercook, though. (Although
                    Message 9 of 18 , Sep 15 7:48 PM
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                      I use a PatMag on a 10x15 C&P, and *usually* don't have any problem
                      with travel. I had a lot more trouble printing with it on a
                      Vandercook, though. (Although that was also a weird printing
                      situation ...)

                      A couple of tips: you can use strapping tape to anchor the polymer
                      plate. With that or any kind of tape, you have to pretty much scan
                      each print to make sure the tape hasn't rucked up, which it will as
                      (if) the plate migrates. Once that happens the tape will be raised
                      enough to get inked, and that area of the print will get inked too.
                      (If you're going to trim the page after printing, and the marks are
                      outside the trim area, it's not as much of a problem, but it still
                      tells you the plate has moved.)

                      Also you can draw with a Sharpie around the plate; then if your
                      outline is no longer visible, you know the plate has gone travelling.

                      Both the residue from tape and the Sharpie lines will come off with
                      typewash or whatever you use to clean the plate.

                      Lisa Rappoport
                      (relatively) happy PatMag user
                      Littoral Press
                      Oakland, CA
                    • Gerald Lange
                      Giving due it due, I should also point out that the one thing that the PatMag is not so good at is the deep impression that is favored by today s invitational
                      Message 10 of 18 , Sep 15 9:15 PM
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                        Giving due it due, I should also point out that the one thing that the
                        PatMag is not so good at is the deep impression that is favored by
                        today's invitational card printers (the PatMag is more a book
                        printer's base). This is because of the rubber magnetic sheet itself
                        which absorbs the impact of impression. The solution to this, though
                        not its original intent, was Harold Kyle's non-magnetic Boxcar Base,
                        which was developed in 2000 (at least that is when I saw the prototype).

                        While Martha Stewart may have made letterpress (and deep impression)
                        proper etiquette for wedding announcements, it was certainly the
                        Boxcar Base that facilitated this, at least in terms of an
                        economically priced base that allowed for not only entry-level
                        participation in letterpress at fairly minimal cost (as did the
                        PatMag) but also opened up that specific and extraordinarily huge market.

                        Gerald
                        http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                        >
                        > Hi Isabel
                        >
                        > I hope my pointing out that plates can travel on a PatMag wasn't taken
                        > as a condemnation of the base. I also pointed out that many fine
                        > printers do use the base and it serves them well. But the base does
                        > deserve its due. Pat Reagh developed the PatMag in late 1980s and it
                        > was the first economical alternative to the Bunting. And that was one
                        > of the crucial ingrediants for the growth of contemporary studio
                        > letterpress and the use of photopolymer plates. Had Pat not developed
                        > his base I doubt we would be sitting here chatting.
                        >
                        > All best
                        >
                        > Gerald
                        >
                      • Scott Rubel
                        Gerald is certainly right about that. Even though I have large collections of type to play with, being able to tell people about PatMags really made
                        Message 11 of 18 , Sep 16 11:08 AM
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                          Gerald is certainly right about that. Even though I have large
                          collections of type to play with, being able to tell people about
                          PatMags really made letterpress accessible to them. Even though
                          everyone who gets a Bunting never looks back (as someone said), Pat
                          Reagh deserves his due. For many years to come PatMags will serve the
                          purpose of opening the door to new letterpress enthusiasts.

                          Also, the access to the technology for making your own custom
                          dimensions is helpful. When a friend of mine got a poster-sized
                          Vandercook a few years ago, I was able to find the source of the
                          adhesive rubber magnet, get a large piece of scrap aluminum Blanchard
                          ground to size, and for less than $200 had a base that covered the
                          entire printable area of the huge press.

                          --Scott

                          On Sep 15, 2006, at 6:20 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:

                          > Hi Isabel
                          >
                          > I hope my pointing out that plates can travel on a PatMag wasn't taken
                          > as a condemnation of the base. I also pointed out that many fine
                          > printers do use the base and it serves them well. But the base does
                          > deserve its due. Pat Reagh developed the PatMag in late 1980s and it
                          > was the first economical alternative to the Bunting. And that was one
                          > of the crucial ingrediants for the growth of contemporary studio
                          > letterpress and the use of photopolymer plates. Had Pat not developed
                          > his base I doubt we would be sitting here chatting.
                          >
                          > All best
                          >
                          > Gerald
                        • Scott Rubel
                          When I was using PatMags, I realized that the creep was in proportion to the surface area of the plate. So, I used to keep lots of developed photopolymer steel
                          Message 12 of 18 , Sep 16 11:19 AM
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                            When I was using PatMags, I realized that the creep was in proportion
                            to the surface area of the plate. So, I used to keep lots of
                            developed photopolymer steel on hand and, if my plate were much
                            smaller than the PatMag, I would build up the area around it with
                            pieces of steel stock.

                            This would often eliminate the need for glue.

                            Another thing I did, when I wanted to be certain (like for two-color
                            hairline registration), was I would bend pieces of the developed
                            stock at 90 degree angles so it could be locked into the chase and
                            still sit flat on the base. Then I could butt my plate up against the
                            lip of the bent piece, which was certain not to move. Usually plate
                            creep is only one direction, so I only had to lock in one 90 degree
                            piece.

                            Of course, all this went to hell if I was doing a very deep
                            impression. Because of the give of the rubber magnet, the edge of the
                            plate would tweak upward just enough to ride over the lip of the
                            locked stock.

                            --Scottt

                            On Sep 15, 2006, at 7:48 PM, cutvelvet@... wrote:

                            > I use a PatMag on a 10x15 C&P, and *usually* don't have any problem
                            > with travel. I had a lot more trouble printing with it on a
                            > Vandercook, though. (Although that was also a weird printing
                            > situation ...)
                            >
                            > A couple of tips: you can use strapping tape to anchor the polymer
                            > plate. With that or any kind of tape, you have to pretty much scan
                            > each print to make sure the tape hasn't rucked up, which it will as
                            > (if) the plate migrates. Once that happens the tape will be raised
                            > enough to get inked, and that area of the print will get inked too.
                            > (If you're going to trim the page after printing, and the marks are
                            > outside the trim area, it's not as much of a problem, but it still
                            > tells you the plate has moved.)
                            >
                            > Also you can draw with a Sharpie around the plate; then if your
                            > outline is no longer visible, you know the plate has gone travelling.
                            >
                            > Both the residue from tape and the Sharpie lines will come off with
                            > typewash or whatever you use to clean the plate.
                            >
                            > Lisa Rappoport
                            > (relatively) happy PatMag user
                            > Littoral Press
                            > Oakland, CA
                          • Gerald Lange
                            Scott There are other tricks as well. Both of the following are standard professional practices that don t require adhesives but do require some knowledgable
                            Message 13 of 18 , Sep 16 2:19 PM
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                              Scott

                              There are other tricks as well. Both of the following are standard
                              professional practices that don't require adhesives but do require
                              some knowledgable registration (template creation) at the prepress stage:

                              A butt bar can be put at the cylinder end of the base and the plate
                              butted up against it.

                              Registration pins can be inserted into the base and the plates hole
                              punched. Plate punchers are a tad expensive though.

                              You can buy custom Buntings with these features built in but I know
                              some folks use them on PatMags. One of my clients uses pin registration.


                              Gerald
                              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > When I was using PatMags, I realized that the creep was in proportion
                              > to the surface area of the plate. So, I used to keep lots of
                              > developed photopolymer steel on hand and, if my plate were much
                              > smaller than the PatMag, I would build up the area around it with
                              > pieces of steel stock.
                              >
                              > This would often eliminate the need for glue.
                              >
                              > Another thing I did, when I wanted to be certain (like for two-color
                              > hairline registration), was I would bend pieces of the developed
                              > stock at 90 degree angles so it could be locked into the chase and
                              > still sit flat on the base. Then I could butt my plate up against the
                              > lip of the bent piece, which was certain not to move. Usually plate
                              > creep is only one direction, so I only had to lock in one 90 degree
                              > piece.
                              >
                              > Of course, all this went to hell if I was doing a very deep
                              > impression. Because of the give of the rubber magnet, the edge of the
                              > plate would tweak upward just enough to ride over the lip of the
                              > locked stock.
                              >
                              > --Scottt
                              >
                            • Ian Bristow
                              Thanks for the advice everyone, this truly is a fantastic forum for Letterpress help. I experimented with my Offset plate punch and it punches through a steel
                              Message 14 of 18 , Sep 17 2:36 PM
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                                Thanks for the advice everyone, this truly is a fantastic forum for Letterpress help. I experimented with my Offset plate punch and it punches through a steel backed Polymer plate very nicely. I use a Duarte punch that punches the negs and Offset aluminum plates. It is probably not recommended for Polymer but seems to work fine. I have a pile of register pins, I guess they could only stick out so far or they would damage the platen. We do want to get a nice deep impression in our paper so I am leaning back toward Boxcar who have been so helpful. They also sell a deep relief base which looks interesting. The thing that worries me is the availability of plates, would I need to use the special plates they have with adhesive backing or could I use any plastic backed plates? I live in Ontario Canada so getting stuff over the border can be expensive sometimes. I was also wondering about the comparison between plastic backed and steel, will one give a deeper impression than the
                                other?

                                Thanks again
                                everyone
                                Ian

                                Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote: Scott

                                There are other tricks as well. Both of the following are standard
                                professional practices that don't require adhesives but do require
                                some knowledgable registration (template creation) at the prepress stage:

                                A butt bar can be put at the cylinder end of the base and the plate
                                butted up against it.

                                Registration pins can be inserted into the base and the plates hole
                                punched. Plate punchers are a tad expensive though.

                                You can buy custom Buntings with these features built in but I know
                                some folks use them on PatMags. One of my clients uses pin registration.

                                Gerald
                                http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > When I was using PatMags, I realized that the creep was in proportion
                                > to the surface area of the plate. So, I used to keep lots of
                                > developed photopolymer steel on hand and, if my plate were much
                                > smaller than the PatMag, I would build up the area around it with
                                > pieces of steel stock.
                                >
                                > This would often eliminate the need for glue.
                                >
                                > Another thing I did, when I wanted to be certain (like for two-color
                                > hairline registration), was I would bend pieces of the developed
                                > stock at 90 degree angles so it could be locked into the chase and
                                > still sit flat on the base. Then I could butt my plate up against the
                                > lip of the bent piece, which was certain not to move. Usually plate
                                > creep is only one direction, so I only had to lock in one 90 degree
                                > piece.
                                >
                                > Of course, all this went to hell if I was doing a very deep
                                > impression. Because of the give of the rubber magnet, the edge of the
                                > plate would tweak upward just enough to ride over the lip of the
                                > locked stock.
                                >
                                > --Scottt
                                >






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                              • Gerald Lange
                                Ian If you are looking for film adhesives for plastic-backed photopolymer plates go here http://www.williamson.ca/products/photopolymer/letterpress/ I think
                                Message 15 of 18 , Sep 18 12:23 AM
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                                  Ian

                                  If you are looking for film adhesives for plastic-backed photopolymer
                                  plates go here

                                  http://www.williamson.ca/products/photopolymer/letterpress/

                                  I think Boxcar (according to the last specs I saw) is using a .004
                                  film thickness.

                                  Thicker plates don't actually give you a deeper relief, paper isn't
                                  all that thick, a thin plate will do the job. The main reason for a
                                  thicker plate is really because of variance in roller adjustment or
                                  travel. Operators will often experience ink transfer to the floor of
                                  the plate if press adjustments are off. With some presses, such as a
                                  C&P, this is often problematic.

                                  Plastic-backed plates are just slightly less configured than
                                  steel-backed plates for increased impression and that is usually
                                  revealed in their thickness to relief ratio. If you want guaranteed
                                  deep relief without letterform splay, you need to go to digital film
                                  negative generated copper photoengravings mounted on a honeycomb or
                                  patent base. Photopolymer really can't do extreme impression without
                                  noticeable distortion. There is a technical barrier to the thickness
                                  that they can be made. They are after all, plastic, in the true sense
                                  of the word.

                                  Gerald



                                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Ian Bristow
                                  <ductormanpaperboy@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for the advice everyone, this truly is a fantastic forum for
                                  Letterpress help. I experimented with my Offset plate punch and it
                                  punches through a steel backed Polymer plate very nicely. I use a
                                  Duarte punch that punches the negs and Offset aluminum plates. It is
                                  probably not recommended for Polymer but seems to work fine. I have a
                                  pile of register pins, I guess they could only stick out so far or
                                  they would damage the platen. We do want to get a nice deep impression
                                  in our paper so I am leaning back toward Boxcar who have been so
                                  helpful. They also sell a deep relief base which looks interesting.
                                  The thing that worries me is the availability of plates, would I need
                                  to use the special plates they have with adhesive backing or could I
                                  use any plastic backed plates? I live in Ontario Canada so getting
                                  stuff over the border can be expensive sometimes. I was also wondering
                                  about the comparison between plastic backed and steel, will one give a
                                  deeper impression than the
                                  > other?
                                  >
                                  > Thanks again
                                  > everyone
                                  > Ian
                                  >
                                  > Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote: Scott
                                  >
                                  > There are other tricks as well. Both of the following are standard
                                  > professional practices that don't require adhesives but do require
                                  > some knowledgable registration (template creation) at the prepress
                                  stage:
                                  >
                                  > A butt bar can be put at the cylinder end of the base and the plate
                                  > butted up against it.
                                  >
                                  > Registration pins can be inserted into the base and the plates hole
                                  > punched. Plate punchers are a tad expensive though.
                                  >
                                  > You can buy custom Buntings with these features built in but I know
                                  > some folks use them on PatMags. One of my clients uses pin
                                  registration.
                                  >
                                  > Gerald
                                  > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                                  >
                                  > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Scott Rubel <scott@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > When I was using PatMags, I realized that the creep was in
                                  proportion
                                  > > to the surface area of the plate. So, I used to keep lots of
                                  > > developed photopolymer steel on hand and, if my plate were much
                                  > > smaller than the PatMag, I would build up the area around it with
                                  > > pieces of steel stock.
                                  > >
                                  > > This would often eliminate the need for glue.
                                  > >
                                  > > Another thing I did, when I wanted to be certain (like for
                                  two-color
                                  > > hairline registration), was I would bend pieces of the developed
                                  > > stock at 90 degree angles so it could be locked into the chase and
                                  > > still sit flat on the base. Then I could butt my plate up against
                                  the
                                  > > lip of the bent piece, which was certain not to move. Usually plate
                                  > > creep is only one direction, so I only had to lock in one 90 degree
                                  > > piece.
                                  > >
                                  > > Of course, all this went to hell if I was doing a very deep
                                  > > impression. Because of the give of the rubber magnet, the edge of
                                  the
                                  > > plate would tweak upward just enough to ride over the lip of the
                                  > > locked stock.
                                  > >
                                  > > --Scottt
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ---------------------------------
                                  > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new
                                  Yahoo! Mail.
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Susan Angebranndt
                                  Ampersand is the quarterly journal of the Pacific Center for the Book Arts (PCBA). It has articles about all aspects of the book arts, from historical
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Sep 20 5:14 PM
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                                    "Ampersand" is the quarterly journal of the Pacific Center for the Book
                                    Arts (PCBA). It has articles about all aspects of the book arts, from
                                    historical commentary to profiles of working artists to practical how-to
                                    tutorials. The informative articles are generously illustrated with
                                    photographs. Back issues are available for $15 (includes shipping in
                                    US/Canada, California residents add tax). Information about the current and
                                    back issues as well as ordering is available at
                                    http://www.greenchairpress.com/amp.cgi

                                    The Fall 2006 issue is now available for purchase.

                                    In this issue:

                                    History of the Book / Orihon's Triumph
                                    Hedi Kyle looks at the origin and adaptations of the concertina fold

                                    Profile / Play, Weaving, Risk, Pattern
                                    Sara McManus gives us a glimpse into Kitty Maryatt's class, "Typography and
                                    the Book Arts," at Scripps College

                                    Broadside / I Speak of the Jazz Poets
                                    Lisa Rappoport's broadside of a Jack Crimmin's poem

                                    Appreciation / Lloyd Reynolds
                                    Gay Walker remembers the calligrapher and teacher Lloyd Reynolds

                                    Around the Bay / Out of Our Control
                                    Deborah Kogan looks at Margaret Tedesco's flip books

                                    Techniques / A Tie Clasp
                                    Deborah Kogan & Catherine Helfer detail instructions for making a tie clasp
                                    with your own hand-made linen cord

                                    Book Reviews
                                    Gerald Lange's review of Neil Macmillian's "An A-Z of Type Designers", and
                                    Amy Davidson looks at the recent multiplicity of books about altered books

                                    Tools / When Good Pens Go South
                                    Georgette Freeman's love affair with her Manuscript calligraphic pen

                                    Resources / Royalty-free Images

                                    Endnote / Letter from Italy
                                    Cathy Miranker discovers a book bonanza in Siena, Italy
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