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cutting steel backed plates

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  • Ian Bristow
    Hi there, I was wondering what is commonly used to cut steel backed plates? I would like to find out what most people are using. And how light sensative are
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 11 7:23 AM
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      Hi there, I was wondering what is commonly used to cut steel backed plates? I would like to find out what most people are using. And how light sensative are they? should they be cut under certain lighting? Also any advice on using a Polimero A5 platemaker would be appreciated.

      Thanks
      Ian


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    • Gerald Lange
      Ian A Kutrimmer is commonly used to cut steel-backed plates. It will leave a clean undisturbed edge. A paper shears or tin snips would work but you might have
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 11 10:16 AM
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        Ian

        A Kutrimmer is commonly used to cut steel-backed plates. It will leave
        a clean undisturbed edge. A paper shears or tin snips would work but
        you might have edge distortion.

        Older formulations could resist ambient light to some degree but some
        of the new formulations (specifically the reconfigured Toyobo
        Printight brand) are far more UV sensitive and it is best if these do
        not see the light of day.

        Most platemakers operate similarly. No manual?
        http://bielerpressxi.blogspot.com/
        A5 is quite small. Does this have a washout unit?

        Gerald
        http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


        >
        > Hi there, I was wondering what is commonly used to cut steel backed
        plates? I would like to find out what most people are using. And how
        light sensative are they? should they be cut under certain lighting?
        Also any advice on using a Polimero A5 platemaker would be appreciated.
        >
        > Thanks
        > Ian
        >
      • Ian Bristow
        Thanks Gerald I have a set of Tin snips, I exposed my first Polymer and it looks great. It does have a Wash out unit, it is very compact but seems to work
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 11 9:19 PM
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          Thanks Gerald I have a set of Tin snips, I exposed my
          first Polymer and it looks great. It does have a Wash
          out unit, it is very compact but seems to work fine.
          Just need to find a good base, thinking of using a
          boxcar base I am just using wood right now.

          Cheers
          Ian
          --- Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote:

          > Ian
          >
          > A Kutrimmer is commonly used to cut steel-backed
          > plates. It will leave
          > a clean undisturbed edge. A paper shears or tin
          > snips would work but
          > you might have edge distortion.
          >
          > Older formulations could resist ambient light to
          > some degree but some
          > of the new formulations (specifically the
          > reconfigured Toyobo
          > Printight brand) are far more UV sensitive and it is
          > best if these do
          > not see the light of day.
          >
          > Most platemakers operate similarly. No manual?
          > http://bielerpressxi.blogspot.com/
          > A5 is quite small. Does this have a washout unit?
          >
          > Gerald
          > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
          >
          >
          > >
          > > Hi there, I was wondering what is commonly used to
          > cut steel backed
          > plates? I would like to find out what most people
          > are using. And how
          > light sensative are they? should they be cut under
          > certain lighting?
          > Also any advice on using a Polimero A5 platemaker
          > would be appreciated.
          > >
          > > Thanks
          > > Ian
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


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        • Gerald Lange
          Ian Congrats! Well, wood ain t so good (density and adhesive variance problems). Photopolymer is very sensitive and will give you what you ask it to do; just
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 11 9:38 PM
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            Ian

            Congrats!

            Well, wood ain't so good (density and adhesive variance problems).
            Photopolymer is very sensitive and will give you what you ask it to
            do; just be careful what you ask it to do. But the Boxcar Base is for
            polyester-backed plates as it is not magnetic. For steel-backed plates
            you would need a magnetic base such as a PatMag or Bunting. A PatMag
            is relatively comparable in cost to the Boxcar.

            Gerald
            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com



            > Thanks Gerald I have a set of Tin snips, I exposed my
            > first Polymer and it looks great. It does have a Wash
            > out unit, it is very compact but seems to work fine.
            > Just need to find a good base, thinking of using a
            > boxcar base I am just using wood right now.
            >
            > Cheers
            > Ian
            > --- Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Ian
            > >
            > > A Kutrimmer is commonly used to cut steel-backed
            > > plates. It will leave
            > > a clean undisturbed edge. A paper shears or tin
            > > snips would work but
            > > you might have edge distortion.
            > >
            > > Older formulations could resist ambient light to
            > > some degree but some
            > > of the new formulations (specifically the
            > > reconfigured Toyobo
            > > Printight brand) are far more UV sensitive and it is
            > > best if these do
            > > not see the light of day.
            > >
            > > Most platemakers operate similarly. No manual?
            > > http://bielerpressxi.blogspot.com/
            > > A5 is quite small. Does this have a washout unit?
            > >
            > > Gerald
            > > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
            > >
            > >
            > > >
            > > > Hi there, I was wondering what is commonly used to
            > > cut steel backed
            > > plates? I would like to find out what most people
            > > are using. And how
            > > light sensative are they? should they be cut under
            > > certain lighting?
            > > Also any advice on using a Polimero A5 platemaker
            > > would be appreciated.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks
            > > > Ian
          • Ian Bristow
            I would like to find out more about the PatMag Base, is there a website or number I could check? Thanks Ian ...
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 12 6:24 PM
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              I would like to find out more about the PatMag Base,
              is there a website or number I could check?

              Thanks
              Ian

              --- Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote:

              > Ian
              >
              > Congrats!
              >
              > Well, wood ain't so good (density and adhesive
              > variance problems).
              > Photopolymer is very sensitive and will give you
              > what you ask it to
              > do; just be careful what you ask it to do. But the
              > Boxcar Base is for
              > polyester-backed plates as it is not magnetic. For
              > steel-backed plates
              > you would need a magnetic base such as a PatMag or
              > Bunting. A PatMag
              > is relatively comparable in cost to the Boxcar.
              >
              > Gerald
              > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
              >
              >
              >
              > > Thanks Gerald I have a set of Tin snips, I exposed
              > my
              > > first Polymer and it looks great. It does have a
              > Wash
              > > out unit, it is very compact but seems to work
              > fine.
              > > Just need to find a good base, thinking of using a
              > > boxcar base I am just using wood right now.
              > >
              > > Cheers
              > > Ian
              > > --- Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > > Ian
              > > >
              > > > A Kutrimmer is commonly used to cut steel-backed
              > > > plates. It will leave
              > > > a clean undisturbed edge. A paper shears or tin
              > > > snips would work but
              > > > you might have edge distortion.
              > > >
              > > > Older formulations could resist ambient light to
              > > > some degree but some
              > > > of the new formulations (specifically the
              > > > reconfigured Toyobo
              > > > Printight brand) are far more UV sensitive and
              > it is
              > > > best if these do
              > > > not see the light of day.
              > > >
              > > > Most platemakers operate similarly. No manual?
              > > > http://bielerpressxi.blogspot.com/
              > > > A5 is quite small. Does this have a washout
              > unit?
              > > >
              > > > Gerald
              > > > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Hi there, I was wondering what is commonly
              > used to
              > > > cut steel backed
              > > > plates? I would like to find out what most
              > people
              > > > are using. And how
              > > > light sensative are they? should they be cut
              > under
              > > > certain lighting?
              > > > Also any advice on using a Polimero A5
              > platemaker
              > > > would be appreciated.
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks
              > > > > Ian
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


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            • Gerald Lange
              Ian I have put up a downloadable PDF for you on the PatMag specifications and contact information in the Files section here. If the link below does not take
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 12 11:31 PM
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                Ian

                I have put up a downloadable PDF for you on the PatMag specifications
                and contact information in the Files section here. If the link below
                does not take you there

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/files/%20%20Reference%20materials/

                go to the PPLetterpress home page then click on Files>Reference Materials

                Gerald
                http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                >
                > I would like to find out more about the PatMag Base,
                > is there a website or number I could check?
                >
                > Thanks
                > Ian
                >
                >
              • Ian Bristow
                Hi Gerald thanks for the info, I could find nothing else on the net. I am a little sceptical about it after reading the other post about how strong the magnet
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 14 10:18 AM
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                  Hi Gerald thanks for the info, I could find nothing else on the net. I am a little sceptical about it after reading the other post about how strong the magnet is on it. I am thinking of maybe going to plastic backed if it will save me time and money. I just can't afford a bunting base, we have been running offset presses without much success and are trying to do both now. But actually enjoying running the windmill instead of cursing it like we do with the offsets. Setting up shop is so expensive and hard when you are still working full time. I am looking forward to a time when the money will start coming in, instead of going out. (sorry about the Rant)

                  Ian

                  Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote: Ian

                  I have put up a downloadable PDF for you on the PatMag specifications
                  and contact information in the Files section here. If the link below
                  does not take you there

                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/files/%20%20Reference%20materials/

                  go to the PPLetterpress home page then click on Files>Reference Materials

                  Gerald
                  http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                  >
                  > I would like to find out more about the PatMag Base,
                  > is there a website or number I could check?
                  >
                  > Thanks
                  > Ian
                  >
                  >






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                • Gerald Lange
                  Ian If you are running a windmill then maybe a PatMag might not be the best as there will be travel without the use of adhesivess. There are a number of fine
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 14 8:00 PM
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                    Ian

                    If you are running a windmill then maybe a PatMag might not be the
                    best as there will be travel without the use of adhesivess. There are
                    a number of fine printers who do use the PatMag with excellent
                    results. I never really had any problem with them but did switch to
                    Buntings and never looked back. I just don't like the trouble of
                    adhesives. For me a Bunting is just a raised bed. I don't have to deal
                    with IT and the plate crap all the time. Just get em in register and
                    party time.

                    Gerald





                    > Hi Gerald thanks for the info, I could find nothing else on the net.
                    I am a little sceptical about it after reading the other post about
                    how strong the magnet is on it. I am thinking of maybe going to
                    plastic backed if it will save me time and money. I just can't afford
                    a bunting base, we have been running offset presses without much
                    success and are trying to do both now. But actually enjoying running
                    the windmill instead of cursing it like we do with the offsets.
                    Setting up shop is so expensive and hard when you are still working
                    full time. I am looking forward to a time when the money will start
                    coming in, instead of going out. (sorry about the Rant)
                    >
                    > Ian
                    >
                    > Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote: Ian
                    >
                    > I have put up a downloadable PDF for you on the PatMag specifications
                    > and contact information in the Files section here. If the link below
                    > does not take you there
                    >
                    >
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress/files/%20%20Reference%20materials/
                    >
                    > go to the PPLetterpress home page then click on Files>Reference
                    Materials
                    >
                    > Gerald
                    > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                    >
                  • Isabel Chi
                    Hello Ian, I fully agree with Gerald. I have a PatMag, and it is as good as a wood block...you might as well duck-tape the plate. The adhesive make the plate
                    Message 9 of 18 , Sep 15 10:45 AM
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                      Hello Ian,
                      I fully agree with Gerald. I have a PatMag, and it is as good as a wood block...you might as well duck-tape the plate. The adhesive make the plate stay on the PatMag, but it also takes the surface of the PatMag when you peel the plate!
                      Arh... As soon as I bought a bunting, my PatMag sits in the dark and collects dust.
                      : )
                      A bunting is a good investment.
                      I heard that the steel and Magnet prices are going up by 40% next year due to China's crazy madness production, so buying one this year might be a good idea.

                      -Isabel


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                    • Gerald Lange
                      Hi Isabel I hope my pointing out that plates can travel on a PatMag wasn t taken as a condemnation of the base. I also pointed out that many fine printers do
                      Message 10 of 18 , Sep 15 6:20 PM
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                        Hi Isabel

                        I hope my pointing out that plates can travel on a PatMag wasn't taken
                        as a condemnation of the base. I also pointed out that many fine
                        printers do use the base and it serves them well. But the base does
                        deserve its due. Pat Reagh developed the PatMag in late 1980s and it
                        was the first economical alternative to the Bunting. And that was one
                        of the crucial ingrediants for the growth of contemporary studio
                        letterpress and the use of photopolymer plates. Had Pat not developed
                        his base I doubt we would be sitting here chatting.

                        All best

                        Gerald

                        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Isabel Chi <icychi@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Ian,
                        > I fully agree with Gerald. I have a PatMag, and it is as good as a
                        wood block...you might as well duck-tape the plate. The adhesive make
                        the plate stay on the PatMag, but it also takes the surface of the
                        PatMag when you peel the plate!
                        > Arh... As soon as I bought a bunting, my PatMag sits in the dark and
                        collects dust.
                        > : )
                        > A bunting is a good investment.
                        > I heard that the steel and Magnet prices are going up by 40% next
                        year due to China's crazy madness production, so buying one this year
                        might be a good idea.
                        >
                        > -Isabel
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • cutvelvet@earthlink.net
                        I use a PatMag on a 10x15 C&P, and *usually* don t have any problem with travel. I had a lot more trouble printing with it on a Vandercook, though. (Although
                        Message 11 of 18 , Sep 15 7:48 PM
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                          I use a PatMag on a 10x15 C&P, and *usually* don't have any problem
                          with travel. I had a lot more trouble printing with it on a
                          Vandercook, though. (Although that was also a weird printing
                          situation ...)

                          A couple of tips: you can use strapping tape to anchor the polymer
                          plate. With that or any kind of tape, you have to pretty much scan
                          each print to make sure the tape hasn't rucked up, which it will as
                          (if) the plate migrates. Once that happens the tape will be raised
                          enough to get inked, and that area of the print will get inked too.
                          (If you're going to trim the page after printing, and the marks are
                          outside the trim area, it's not as much of a problem, but it still
                          tells you the plate has moved.)

                          Also you can draw with a Sharpie around the plate; then if your
                          outline is no longer visible, you know the plate has gone travelling.

                          Both the residue from tape and the Sharpie lines will come off with
                          typewash or whatever you use to clean the plate.

                          Lisa Rappoport
                          (relatively) happy PatMag user
                          Littoral Press
                          Oakland, CA
                        • Gerald Lange
                          Giving due it due, I should also point out that the one thing that the PatMag is not so good at is the deep impression that is favored by today s invitational
                          Message 12 of 18 , Sep 15 9:15 PM
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                            Giving due it due, I should also point out that the one thing that the
                            PatMag is not so good at is the deep impression that is favored by
                            today's invitational card printers (the PatMag is more a book
                            printer's base). This is because of the rubber magnetic sheet itself
                            which absorbs the impact of impression. The solution to this, though
                            not its original intent, was Harold Kyle's non-magnetic Boxcar Base,
                            which was developed in 2000 (at least that is when I saw the prototype).

                            While Martha Stewart may have made letterpress (and deep impression)
                            proper etiquette for wedding announcements, it was certainly the
                            Boxcar Base that facilitated this, at least in terms of an
                            economically priced base that allowed for not only entry-level
                            participation in letterpress at fairly minimal cost (as did the
                            PatMag) but also opened up that specific and extraordinarily huge market.

                            Gerald
                            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                            >
                            > Hi Isabel
                            >
                            > I hope my pointing out that plates can travel on a PatMag wasn't taken
                            > as a condemnation of the base. I also pointed out that many fine
                            > printers do use the base and it serves them well. But the base does
                            > deserve its due. Pat Reagh developed the PatMag in late 1980s and it
                            > was the first economical alternative to the Bunting. And that was one
                            > of the crucial ingrediants for the growth of contemporary studio
                            > letterpress and the use of photopolymer plates. Had Pat not developed
                            > his base I doubt we would be sitting here chatting.
                            >
                            > All best
                            >
                            > Gerald
                            >
                          • Scott Rubel
                            Gerald is certainly right about that. Even though I have large collections of type to play with, being able to tell people about PatMags really made
                            Message 13 of 18 , Sep 16 11:08 AM
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                              Gerald is certainly right about that. Even though I have large
                              collections of type to play with, being able to tell people about
                              PatMags really made letterpress accessible to them. Even though
                              everyone who gets a Bunting never looks back (as someone said), Pat
                              Reagh deserves his due. For many years to come PatMags will serve the
                              purpose of opening the door to new letterpress enthusiasts.

                              Also, the access to the technology for making your own custom
                              dimensions is helpful. When a friend of mine got a poster-sized
                              Vandercook a few years ago, I was able to find the source of the
                              adhesive rubber magnet, get a large piece of scrap aluminum Blanchard
                              ground to size, and for less than $200 had a base that covered the
                              entire printable area of the huge press.

                              --Scott

                              On Sep 15, 2006, at 6:20 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:

                              > Hi Isabel
                              >
                              > I hope my pointing out that plates can travel on a PatMag wasn't taken
                              > as a condemnation of the base. I also pointed out that many fine
                              > printers do use the base and it serves them well. But the base does
                              > deserve its due. Pat Reagh developed the PatMag in late 1980s and it
                              > was the first economical alternative to the Bunting. And that was one
                              > of the crucial ingrediants for the growth of contemporary studio
                              > letterpress and the use of photopolymer plates. Had Pat not developed
                              > his base I doubt we would be sitting here chatting.
                              >
                              > All best
                              >
                              > Gerald
                            • Scott Rubel
                              When I was using PatMags, I realized that the creep was in proportion to the surface area of the plate. So, I used to keep lots of developed photopolymer steel
                              Message 14 of 18 , Sep 16 11:19 AM
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                                When I was using PatMags, I realized that the creep was in proportion
                                to the surface area of the plate. So, I used to keep lots of
                                developed photopolymer steel on hand and, if my plate were much
                                smaller than the PatMag, I would build up the area around it with
                                pieces of steel stock.

                                This would often eliminate the need for glue.

                                Another thing I did, when I wanted to be certain (like for two-color
                                hairline registration), was I would bend pieces of the developed
                                stock at 90 degree angles so it could be locked into the chase and
                                still sit flat on the base. Then I could butt my plate up against the
                                lip of the bent piece, which was certain not to move. Usually plate
                                creep is only one direction, so I only had to lock in one 90 degree
                                piece.

                                Of course, all this went to hell if I was doing a very deep
                                impression. Because of the give of the rubber magnet, the edge of the
                                plate would tweak upward just enough to ride over the lip of the
                                locked stock.

                                --Scottt

                                On Sep 15, 2006, at 7:48 PM, cutvelvet@... wrote:

                                > I use a PatMag on a 10x15 C&P, and *usually* don't have any problem
                                > with travel. I had a lot more trouble printing with it on a
                                > Vandercook, though. (Although that was also a weird printing
                                > situation ...)
                                >
                                > A couple of tips: you can use strapping tape to anchor the polymer
                                > plate. With that or any kind of tape, you have to pretty much scan
                                > each print to make sure the tape hasn't rucked up, which it will as
                                > (if) the plate migrates. Once that happens the tape will be raised
                                > enough to get inked, and that area of the print will get inked too.
                                > (If you're going to trim the page after printing, and the marks are
                                > outside the trim area, it's not as much of a problem, but it still
                                > tells you the plate has moved.)
                                >
                                > Also you can draw with a Sharpie around the plate; then if your
                                > outline is no longer visible, you know the plate has gone travelling.
                                >
                                > Both the residue from tape and the Sharpie lines will come off with
                                > typewash or whatever you use to clean the plate.
                                >
                                > Lisa Rappoport
                                > (relatively) happy PatMag user
                                > Littoral Press
                                > Oakland, CA
                              • Gerald Lange
                                Scott There are other tricks as well. Both of the following are standard professional practices that don t require adhesives but do require some knowledgable
                                Message 15 of 18 , Sep 16 2:19 PM
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                                  Scott

                                  There are other tricks as well. Both of the following are standard
                                  professional practices that don't require adhesives but do require
                                  some knowledgable registration (template creation) at the prepress stage:

                                  A butt bar can be put at the cylinder end of the base and the plate
                                  butted up against it.

                                  Registration pins can be inserted into the base and the plates hole
                                  punched. Plate punchers are a tad expensive though.

                                  You can buy custom Buntings with these features built in but I know
                                  some folks use them on PatMags. One of my clients uses pin registration.


                                  Gerald
                                  http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > When I was using PatMags, I realized that the creep was in proportion
                                  > to the surface area of the plate. So, I used to keep lots of
                                  > developed photopolymer steel on hand and, if my plate were much
                                  > smaller than the PatMag, I would build up the area around it with
                                  > pieces of steel stock.
                                  >
                                  > This would often eliminate the need for glue.
                                  >
                                  > Another thing I did, when I wanted to be certain (like for two-color
                                  > hairline registration), was I would bend pieces of the developed
                                  > stock at 90 degree angles so it could be locked into the chase and
                                  > still sit flat on the base. Then I could butt my plate up against the
                                  > lip of the bent piece, which was certain not to move. Usually plate
                                  > creep is only one direction, so I only had to lock in one 90 degree
                                  > piece.
                                  >
                                  > Of course, all this went to hell if I was doing a very deep
                                  > impression. Because of the give of the rubber magnet, the edge of the
                                  > plate would tweak upward just enough to ride over the lip of the
                                  > locked stock.
                                  >
                                  > --Scottt
                                  >
                                • Ian Bristow
                                  Thanks for the advice everyone, this truly is a fantastic forum for Letterpress help. I experimented with my Offset plate punch and it punches through a steel
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Sep 17 2:36 PM
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                                    Thanks for the advice everyone, this truly is a fantastic forum for Letterpress help. I experimented with my Offset plate punch and it punches through a steel backed Polymer plate very nicely. I use a Duarte punch that punches the negs and Offset aluminum plates. It is probably not recommended for Polymer but seems to work fine. I have a pile of register pins, I guess they could only stick out so far or they would damage the platen. We do want to get a nice deep impression in our paper so I am leaning back toward Boxcar who have been so helpful. They also sell a deep relief base which looks interesting. The thing that worries me is the availability of plates, would I need to use the special plates they have with adhesive backing or could I use any plastic backed plates? I live in Ontario Canada so getting stuff over the border can be expensive sometimes. I was also wondering about the comparison between plastic backed and steel, will one give a deeper impression than the
                                    other?

                                    Thanks again
                                    everyone
                                    Ian

                                    Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote: Scott

                                    There are other tricks as well. Both of the following are standard
                                    professional practices that don't require adhesives but do require
                                    some knowledgable registration (template creation) at the prepress stage:

                                    A butt bar can be put at the cylinder end of the base and the plate
                                    butted up against it.

                                    Registration pins can be inserted into the base and the plates hole
                                    punched. Plate punchers are a tad expensive though.

                                    You can buy custom Buntings with these features built in but I know
                                    some folks use them on PatMags. One of my clients uses pin registration.

                                    Gerald
                                    http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > When I was using PatMags, I realized that the creep was in proportion
                                    > to the surface area of the plate. So, I used to keep lots of
                                    > developed photopolymer steel on hand and, if my plate were much
                                    > smaller than the PatMag, I would build up the area around it with
                                    > pieces of steel stock.
                                    >
                                    > This would often eliminate the need for glue.
                                    >
                                    > Another thing I did, when I wanted to be certain (like for two-color
                                    > hairline registration), was I would bend pieces of the developed
                                    > stock at 90 degree angles so it could be locked into the chase and
                                    > still sit flat on the base. Then I could butt my plate up against the
                                    > lip of the bent piece, which was certain not to move. Usually plate
                                    > creep is only one direction, so I only had to lock in one 90 degree
                                    > piece.
                                    >
                                    > Of course, all this went to hell if I was doing a very deep
                                    > impression. Because of the give of the rubber magnet, the edge of the
                                    > plate would tweak upward just enough to ride over the lip of the
                                    > locked stock.
                                    >
                                    > --Scottt
                                    >






                                    ---------------------------------
                                    The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new Yahoo! Mail.

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Gerald Lange
                                    Ian If you are looking for film adhesives for plastic-backed photopolymer plates go here http://www.williamson.ca/products/photopolymer/letterpress/ I think
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Sep 18 12:23 AM
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                                      Ian

                                      If you are looking for film adhesives for plastic-backed photopolymer
                                      plates go here

                                      http://www.williamson.ca/products/photopolymer/letterpress/

                                      I think Boxcar (according to the last specs I saw) is using a .004
                                      film thickness.

                                      Thicker plates don't actually give you a deeper relief, paper isn't
                                      all that thick, a thin plate will do the job. The main reason for a
                                      thicker plate is really because of variance in roller adjustment or
                                      travel. Operators will often experience ink transfer to the floor of
                                      the plate if press adjustments are off. With some presses, such as a
                                      C&P, this is often problematic.

                                      Plastic-backed plates are just slightly less configured than
                                      steel-backed plates for increased impression and that is usually
                                      revealed in their thickness to relief ratio. If you want guaranteed
                                      deep relief without letterform splay, you need to go to digital film
                                      negative generated copper photoengravings mounted on a honeycomb or
                                      patent base. Photopolymer really can't do extreme impression without
                                      noticeable distortion. There is a technical barrier to the thickness
                                      that they can be made. They are after all, plastic, in the true sense
                                      of the word.

                                      Gerald



                                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Ian Bristow
                                      <ductormanpaperboy@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Thanks for the advice everyone, this truly is a fantastic forum for
                                      Letterpress help. I experimented with my Offset plate punch and it
                                      punches through a steel backed Polymer plate very nicely. I use a
                                      Duarte punch that punches the negs and Offset aluminum plates. It is
                                      probably not recommended for Polymer but seems to work fine. I have a
                                      pile of register pins, I guess they could only stick out so far or
                                      they would damage the platen. We do want to get a nice deep impression
                                      in our paper so I am leaning back toward Boxcar who have been so
                                      helpful. They also sell a deep relief base which looks interesting.
                                      The thing that worries me is the availability of plates, would I need
                                      to use the special plates they have with adhesive backing or could I
                                      use any plastic backed plates? I live in Ontario Canada so getting
                                      stuff over the border can be expensive sometimes. I was also wondering
                                      about the comparison between plastic backed and steel, will one give a
                                      deeper impression than the
                                      > other?
                                      >
                                      > Thanks again
                                      > everyone
                                      > Ian
                                      >
                                      > Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote: Scott
                                      >
                                      > There are other tricks as well. Both of the following are standard
                                      > professional practices that don't require adhesives but do require
                                      > some knowledgable registration (template creation) at the prepress
                                      stage:
                                      >
                                      > A butt bar can be put at the cylinder end of the base and the plate
                                      > butted up against it.
                                      >
                                      > Registration pins can be inserted into the base and the plates hole
                                      > punched. Plate punchers are a tad expensive though.
                                      >
                                      > You can buy custom Buntings with these features built in but I know
                                      > some folks use them on PatMags. One of my clients uses pin
                                      registration.
                                      >
                                      > Gerald
                                      > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                                      >
                                      > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Scott Rubel <scott@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > When I was using PatMags, I realized that the creep was in
                                      proportion
                                      > > to the surface area of the plate. So, I used to keep lots of
                                      > > developed photopolymer steel on hand and, if my plate were much
                                      > > smaller than the PatMag, I would build up the area around it with
                                      > > pieces of steel stock.
                                      > >
                                      > > This would often eliminate the need for glue.
                                      > >
                                      > > Another thing I did, when I wanted to be certain (like for
                                      two-color
                                      > > hairline registration), was I would bend pieces of the developed
                                      > > stock at 90 degree angles so it could be locked into the chase and
                                      > > still sit flat on the base. Then I could butt my plate up against
                                      the
                                      > > lip of the bent piece, which was certain not to move. Usually plate
                                      > > creep is only one direction, so I only had to lock in one 90 degree
                                      > > piece.
                                      > >
                                      > > Of course, all this went to hell if I was doing a very deep
                                      > > impression. Because of the give of the rubber magnet, the edge of
                                      the
                                      > > plate would tweak upward just enough to ride over the lip of the
                                      > > locked stock.
                                      > >
                                      > > --Scottt
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ---------------------------------
                                      > The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new
                                      Yahoo! Mail.
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                    • Susan Angebranndt
                                      Ampersand is the quarterly journal of the Pacific Center for the Book Arts (PCBA). It has articles about all aspects of the book arts, from historical
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Sep 20 5:14 PM
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                                        "Ampersand" is the quarterly journal of the Pacific Center for the Book
                                        Arts (PCBA). It has articles about all aspects of the book arts, from
                                        historical commentary to profiles of working artists to practical how-to
                                        tutorials. The informative articles are generously illustrated with
                                        photographs. Back issues are available for $15 (includes shipping in
                                        US/Canada, California residents add tax). Information about the current and
                                        back issues as well as ordering is available at
                                        http://www.greenchairpress.com/amp.cgi

                                        The Fall 2006 issue is now available for purchase.

                                        In this issue:

                                        History of the Book / Orihon's Triumph
                                        Hedi Kyle looks at the origin and adaptations of the concertina fold

                                        Profile / Play, Weaving, Risk, Pattern
                                        Sara McManus gives us a glimpse into Kitty Maryatt's class, "Typography and
                                        the Book Arts," at Scripps College

                                        Broadside / I Speak of the Jazz Poets
                                        Lisa Rappoport's broadside of a Jack Crimmin's poem

                                        Appreciation / Lloyd Reynolds
                                        Gay Walker remembers the calligrapher and teacher Lloyd Reynolds

                                        Around the Bay / Out of Our Control
                                        Deborah Kogan looks at Margaret Tedesco's flip books

                                        Techniques / A Tie Clasp
                                        Deborah Kogan & Catherine Helfer detail instructions for making a tie clasp
                                        with your own hand-made linen cord

                                        Book Reviews
                                        Gerald Lange's review of Neil Macmillian's "An A-Z of Type Designers", and
                                        Amy Davidson looks at the recent multiplicity of books about altered books

                                        Tools / When Good Pens Go South
                                        Georgette Freeman's love affair with her Manuscript calligraphic pen

                                        Resources / Royalty-free Images

                                        Endnote / Letter from Italy
                                        Cathy Miranker discovers a book bonanza in Siena, Italy
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