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Re: Grinding down a bunting base

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  • parallel_imp
    ... Bunting bases are made for specific thicknesses of plate, and there are many variations. You re using the wrong plate. So buy a micrometer, measure the
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "aborezo" <aborezo@...> wrote:

      > I have a friend offering to give me a bunting base on long term loan,
      > but for some reason, when paired with a plate, it is higher than type
      > high.

      Bunting bases are made for specific thicknesses of plate, and there
      are many variations. You're using the wrong plate. So buy a
      micrometer, measure the base height, subtract that from .918", and you
      will know what thickness of plate to buy.
      -Eric Holub, SF
    • Scott Rubel
      I agree with Eric. You may have a choice of plate height and you should not need to grind it. If you do feel you should grind it, make sure your friend s
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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        I agree with Eric. You may have a choice of plate height and you should
        not need to grind it. If you do feel you should grind it, make sure your
        friend's adjustable bed will adjust to the new height.

        If you grind it, you need to ask specifically for Blanchard grinding.
        Regular milling by a machinist may not be precision enough.

        Even the smallest Bunting bases cost hundreds of dollars, so let your
        choices be well-considered.

        --Scott

        Warren Gailbreath, Jr. wrote:

        >Amy:
        >
        >I thought I would put my two cents worth in. Bunting
        >Magnetic bases in my opinion are VERY expensive. Since
        >it is on loan and the original owner may want it back
        >eventually I would not have it machined down.
        >
        >Also if the machinist were to machine it slightly off
        >that would present a whole new set of problems. When
        >the bases are made they are made to order.
        >
        >Good Luck
        >
        >
        >Warren Gailbreath,Jr.
        >Southwest Finishing, Inc.
        >Ft.Worth, Texas
        >
      • aborezo
        Hi again, Thanks to everyone who has responded so far with grinding info. Apparently, grinding a bunting base is not the best choice. Soooo, I will try to
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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          Hi again, Thanks to everyone who has responded so far with grinding
          info. Apparently, grinding a bunting base is not the best choice.
          Soooo, I will try to get the specs on the base height from her and see
          if there is a plate that will match up to type high. I'm trying to
          figure all of this out without having the base in my posession.

          Best,
          Amy Borezo
          www.shelterbookworks.com
        • Bryan Hutcheson
          We are in the market for Bunting Bases. If anyone has spare ones they want to get rid of, CALL US! bryan hutcheson manifesto letterpress 116 pleasant street -
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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            We are in the market for Bunting Bases. If anyone has spare ones they
            want to get rid of, CALL US!


            bryan hutcheson
            manifesto letterpress
            116 pleasant street - 2245
            easthampton, ma 01027
            p:413.529.0009
            f:413.529.1177
            http://www.manifestopress.com
            _________________________________
            a full-service design and letterpress studio
            announcements
            stationery
            packaging
            posters




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Gerald Lange
            Amy If you were to have the base ground you would have to send it to Bunting. The bases are a mix of materials of different densities, aluminum, steel, ceramic
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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              Amy

              If you were to have the base ground you would have to send it to
              Bunting. The bases are a mix of materials of different densities,
              aluminum, steel, ceramic magnets, and would be very difficult to grind
              properly and accurately. Also, having an outside source grind the base
              would end the lifetime warranty. If you can send me the unique ID of
              the base it's possible I could find out the thickness of the base for you.

              Since Bunting grinds the bases to accomodate specific plate
              thicknesses it is likely your friend is using the wrong plate
              configuration if the base and plate measure over type high.

              Bunting is so specific about the proper configuration of plate and
              base they also do not recommend that folks use underlays with their bases.

              Gerald
              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "aborezo" <aborezo@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello,
              >
              > I have a friend offering to give me a bunting base on long term loan,
              > but for some reason, when paired with a plate, it is higher than type
              > high. She has an adjustable bed, I do not. She suggested grinding it
              > down. Before I call a machinist, I'm just wondering if anyone has any
              > opinions on this? Is it advisable? Any problems that could arise? Any
              > idea of how much something like this might cost?
              >
              > Thanks so much,
              > Amy Borezo
              > www.shelterbookworks.com
              >
            • Gerald Lange
              Amy In reply, I have been able to get information on specific thicknesses for bases connected with ID numbers, but I am not sure how extensive the record
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 2, 2006
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                Amy

                In reply, I have been able to get information on specific thicknesses
                for bases connected with ID numbers, but I am not sure how extensive
                the record keeping is. But if you send it I will inquire.

                I can't recall off the top of my head how long Bunting has actually
                been making bases but I'm quessing since about the mid 1980s. They
                pretty much saturated the industrial market some long time ago. I'm
                surprised they still continue to offer the product. They no longer
                keep them in stock and only make them up as orders are received. I'd
                hate to see them abandon this item as it is hands down the best
                photopolymer plate precision base on the market. And I say that as a
                user, not a distributor or rep (which I am). I have tried the
                alternatives. If there was something better, I would switch over.

                Gerald
                http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
              • nagraph1
                I think these date back to at least the early 70s as that s when I got my first product literature from them. They were used heavily in the box making part of
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 2, 2006
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                  I think these date back to at least the early 70s as that's when I
                  got my first product literature from them. They were used heavily in
                  the box making part of printing and tons of large flat bed presses
                  were still operating back then. We were using photopolymer plates on
                  Heidelberg cylinders where I worked in San Francisco in the 1968-69
                  era, so these things do pre-date what is thought to
                  be "contemporary" letterpress.

                  Fritz


                  > In reply, I have been able to get information on specific
                  thicknesses
                  > for bases connected with ID numbers, but I am not sure how
                  extensive
                  > the record keeping is. But if you send it I will inquire.
                  >
                  > I can't recall off the top of my head how long Bunting has actually
                  > been making bases but I'm quessing since about the mid 1980s. They
                  > pretty much saturated the industrial market some long time ago.
                  I'm
                  > surprised they still continue to offer the product. They no longer
                  > keep them in stock and only make them up as orders are received.
                  I'd
                  > hate to see them abandon this item as it is hands down the best
                  > photopolymer plate precision base on the market. And I say that as
                  a
                  > user, not a distributor or rep (which I am). I have tried the
                  > alternatives. If there was something better, I would switch over.
                  >
                  > Gerald
                  > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                  >
                • Warren Gailbreath, Jr.
                  The first exposure I had with the Bunting base was in 1989 or 1990. The shop I was numbering checks for bought one and it is what we used to imprint the MICR
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 2, 2006
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                    The first exposure I had with the Bunting base was in
                    1989 or 1990. The shop I was numbering checks for
                    bought one and it is what we used to imprint the MICR
                    Routing and Account numbers with.

                    Until then they had somebody setting MICR in slugs.
                    They came out one day and said we are going to use
                    this now and I said OK.

                    I recently bought one for a GOOD price and it's in
                    good shape but I believe it to be old as the number on
                    the back is only 4 digits. Something like 1158 or
                    something.




                    Warren Gailbreath,Jr.
                    Southwest Finishing, Inc.
                    Ft.Worth, Texas
                  • tonyaaa2005
                    Fritz- you well traveled old-timer. I was in the Bay Area in 1968-89, but I was a 6th grader at Sunshine Gardens Elementary School in South San
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 2, 2006
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                      Fritz-

                      you well traveled old-timer. I was in the Bay Area in 1968-89,
                      but I was a 6th grader at Sunshine Gardens Elementary School in
                      South San Francisco.........


                      Best and Kindest regards,


                      Tony Archer






                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "nagraph1" <nagraph@...> wrote:

                      >............ We were using photopolymer plates on Heidelberg
                      > cylinders where I worked in San Francisco in the 1968-69
                      > era..............
                      > Fritz
                      >
                    • amy borezo
                      I will be receiving the Bunting Base in the mail soon and will check the ID number and exact height. She has warned me that it is quite high, so I still might
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 2, 2006
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                        I will be receiving the Bunting Base in the mail soon and will check the ID
                        number and exact height.

                        She has warned me that it is quite high, so I still might have to look into
                        the grinding option with Bunting. It fits her press perfectly, which
                        apparently is not made for American type. It is a Vandercook that fits
                        European type of some kind. I did some research and found out about didot,
                        but her description makes me think it is even more of a height difference
                        than that. Were some Vandercooks made for different kinds of type?

                        Thanks for all of the informative historical info.

                        Best,
                        Amy Borezo
                        www.shelterbookworks.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Gerald Lange
                        Amy Sorry to be so slow in responding. My OS has a bad system file that I am gingerly stepping around until I can find the time to redo everything. I don t
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 5, 2006
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                          Amy

                          Sorry to be so slow in responding. My OS has a bad system file that I
                          am gingerly stepping around until I can find the time to redo everything.

                          I don't know if Vandercook made a special height bed for the European
                          market but I have heard that FAG (Switzerland) used to import
                          Vandercooks for their low end market. So maybe.

                          Gerald
                          http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                          >
                          > I will be receiving the Bunting Base in the mail soon and will check
                          the ID
                          > number and exact height.
                          >
                          > She has warned me that it is quite high, so I still might have to
                          look into
                          > the grinding option with Bunting. It fits her press perfectly, which
                          > apparently is not made for American type. It is a Vandercook that fits
                          > European type of some kind. I did some research and found out about
                          didot,
                          > but her description makes me think it is even more of a height
                          difference
                          > than that. Were some Vandercooks made for different kinds of type?
                          >
                          > Thanks for all of the informative historical info.
                          >
                          > Best,
                          > Amy Borezo
                          > www.shelterbookworks.com
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Ph.D.
                          It seems odd that a Didot-height Vandercook would be found in the United States, as imported type was trimmed down to American height. Amy says that her friend
                          Message 12 of 20 , Aug 5, 2006
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                            It seems odd that a Didot-height Vandercook would
                            be found in the United States, as imported type was
                            trimmed down to American height.

                            Amy says that her friend makes it sound as though it's
                            a lot higher than the difference between Didot and
                            American (0.928 - 0.918 = 0.010 inch). Perhaps her
                            friend has a Vandercook designed to be used with
                            the type on a galley, but her friend doesn't realize this
                            and is just setting the base directly on the bed. That
                            would add approximately 0.050 inch to the height
                            (0.918 > 0.968").

                            Just a thought.

                            --Ph. D.

                            Gerald Lange wrote:
                            >
                            > I don't know if Vandercook made a special height
                            > bed for the European market but I have heard that
                            > FAG (Switzerland) used to import Vandercooks for
                            > their low end market. So maybe.
                            >
                            > Amy Borezo wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I will be receiving the Bunting Base in the mail soon and
                            > > will check the ID number and exact height.
                            > >
                            > > She has warned me that it is quite high, so I still might
                            > > have to look into the grinding option with Bunting. It fits
                            > > her press perfectly, which apparently is not made for
                            > > American type. It is a Vandercook that fits European
                            > > type of some kind. I did some research and found out
                            > > about didot, but her description makes me think it is
                            > > even more of a height difference than that. Were some
                            > > Vandercooks made for different kinds of type?
                          • nagraph1
                            Vandercook made whatever bed height was ordered, and it could vary by customer and country. Each proof and test press was entered as a separate order, and thus
                            Message 13 of 20 , Aug 5, 2006
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                              Vandercook made whatever bed height was ordered, and it could vary
                              by customer and country. Each proof and test press was entered as a
                              separate order, and thus the customer specifications were
                              established for each press. Even within the U.S., with its supposed
                              uniform .918 type high, presses intended for uses other than for
                              printers often had special bed heights.

                              Just for the sake of argument, I just reviewed about 100 consecutive
                              serial number cards for the Universal I's shipped in the mid-1960s
                              and it appears the Swiss distributor for Vandercook was Monotype,
                              not F.A.G. In Great Britain, the exclusive distributor was Soldans.

                              Fritz

                              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > Amy
                              >
                              > Sorry to be so slow in responding. My OS has a bad system file
                              that I
                              > am gingerly stepping around until I can find the time to redo
                              everything.
                              >
                              > I don't know if Vandercook made a special height bed for the
                              European
                              > market but I have heard that FAG (Switzerland) used to import
                              > Vandercooks for their low end market. So maybe.
                              >
                              > Gerald
                              > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                              >
                              >
                            • Lance Williams
                              Phil, That is kind of what I was thinking. Either a galley, or a bed liner. I don t know enough about Vandercooks, but our Verner Multipresses all have what
                              Message 14 of 20 , Aug 5, 2006
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                                Phil,

                                That is kind of what I was thinking. Either a galley, or a bed liner.
                                I don't know enough about Vandercooks, but our Verner Multipresses all have
                                what look like 11 point zinc plates (probably actually steel) on the bed to
                                bring them up to type high. I never really knew the reason, but they are a
                                stock item with the press.... Could some Vandercooks have been made with
                                the same concept??

                                - Lance Williams
                                Williams Stationery Co.
                                Camden, New York
                                APA #785


                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Ph.D.
                                To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: 8/5/2006 11:27:17 PM
                                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Grinding down a bunting base


                                It seems odd that a Didot-height Vandercook would
                                be found in the United States, as imported type was
                                trimmed down to American height.

                                Amy says that her friend makes it sound as though it's
                                a lot higher than the difference between Didot and
                                American (0.928 - 0.918 = 0.010 inch). Perhaps her
                                friend has a Vandercook designed to be used with
                                the type on a galley, but her friend doesn't realize this
                                and is just setting the base directly on the bed. That
                                would add approximately 0.050 inch to the height
                                (0.918 > 0.968").

                                Just a thought.

                                --Ph. D.

                                Gerald Lange wrote:
                                >
                                > I don't know if Vandercook made a special height
                                > bed for the European market but I have heard that
                                > FAG (Switzerland) used to import Vandercooks for
                                > their low end market. So maybe.
                                >
                                > Amy Borezo wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I will be receiving the Bunting Base in the mail soon and
                                > > will check the ID number and exact height.
                                > >
                                > > She has warned me that it is quite high, so I still might
                                > > have to look into the grinding option with Bunting. It fits
                                > > her press perfectly, which apparently is not made for
                                > > American type. It is a Vandercook that fits European
                                > > type of some kind. I did some research and found out
                                > > about didot, but her description makes me think it is
                                > > even more of a height difference than that. Were some
                                > > Vandercooks made for different kinds of type?
                              • Gerald Lange
                                Fritz Thanks. It is so easy to pull the correct info from you, all one has to do is post slightly errant. :–) Gerald http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                                Message 15 of 20 , Aug 5, 2006
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                                  Fritz

                                  Thanks. It is so easy to pull the correct info from you, all one has
                                  to do is post slightly errant. :–)

                                  Gerald
                                  http://BielerPress.blogspot.com



                                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "nagraph1" <nagraph@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Vandercook made whatever bed height was ordered, and it could vary
                                  > by customer and country. Each proof and test press was entered as a
                                  > separate order, and thus the customer specifications were
                                  > established for each press. Even within the U.S., with its supposed
                                  > uniform .918 type high, presses intended for uses other than for
                                  > printers often had special bed heights.
                                  >
                                  > Just for the sake of argument, I just reviewed about 100 consecutive
                                  > serial number cards for the Universal I's shipped in the mid-1960s
                                  > and it appears the Swiss distributor for Vandercook was Monotype,
                                  > not F.A.G. In Great Britain, the exclusive distributor was Soldans.
                                  >
                                  > Fritz
                                  >
                                  > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Amy
                                  > >
                                  > > Sorry to be so slow in responding. My OS has a bad system file
                                  > that I
                                  > > am gingerly stepping around until I can find the time to redo
                                  > everything.
                                  > >
                                  > > I don't know if Vandercook made a special height bed for the
                                  > European
                                  > > market but I have heard that FAG (Switzerland) used to import
                                  > > Vandercooks for their low end market. So maybe.
                                  > >
                                  > > Gerald
                                  > > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Ph.D.
                                  Yes, many of the Vandercooks that I ve seen have a steel liner that fits in the bed. If you re using galleys, you take it off. If you re not using galleys
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Aug 5, 2006
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                                    Yes, many of the Vandercooks that I've seen have a steel
                                    liner that fits in the bed. If you're using galleys, you take it off.
                                    If you're not using galleys (perhaps you have a form already
                                    locked in a chase), then you put on the liner.

                                    --Ph D.

                                    Lance Williams wrote:
                                    >
                                    > That is kind of what I was thinking. Either a galley, or a
                                    > bed liner. I don't know enough about Vandercooks, but our
                                    > Verner Multipresses all have what look like 11 point zinc
                                    > plates (probably actually steel) on the bed to bring them
                                    > up to type high. I never really knew the reason, but they are
                                    > a stock item with the press.... Could some Vandercooks
                                    > have been made with the same concept??
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Ph.D. wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Amy says that her friend makes it sound as though it's
                                    > a lot higher than the difference between Didot and
                                    > American (0.928 - 0.918 = 0.010 inch). Perhaps her
                                    > friend has a Vandercook designed to be used with
                                    > the type on a galley, but her friend doesn't realize this
                                    > and is just setting the base directly on the bed. That
                                    > would add approximately 0.050 inch to the height
                                    > (0.918 > 0.968").
                                    >
                                    > Just a thought.
                                    >
                                    > --Ph. D.
                                    >
                                    > Gerald Lange wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I don't know if Vandercook made a special height
                                    > > bed for the European market but I have heard that
                                    > > FAG (Switzerland) used to import Vandercooks for
                                    > > their low end market. So maybe.
                                    > >
                                    > > Amy Borezo wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I will be receiving the Bunting Base in the mail soon and
                                    > > > will check the ID number and exact height.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > She has warned me that it is quite high, so I still might
                                    > > > have to look into the grinding option with Bunting. It fits
                                    > > > her press perfectly, which apparently is not made for
                                    > > > American type. It is a Vandercook that fits European
                                    > > > type of some kind. I did some research and found out
                                    > > > about didot, but her description makes me think it is
                                    > > > even more of a height difference than that. Were some
                                    > > > Vandercooks made for different kinds of type?
                                  • Gerald Lange
                                    Phil Earlier in the thread Amy mentioned that her friend had a Vandercook with an adjustable bed. So it would not be just .918 or .968. I don t know offhand
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Aug 5, 2006
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                                      Phil

                                      Earlier in the thread Amy mentioned that her friend had a Vandercook
                                      with an adjustable bed. So it would not be just .918 or .968. I don't
                                      know offhand what the adjustable bed range of a Vandercook is. But my
                                      understanding is that Bunting stocks at .918 and grinds down as per
                                      order of specific plate thickness.

                                      Gerald
                                      http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                                      -- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Ph.D." <phil@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > It seems odd that a Didot-height Vandercook would
                                      > be found in the United States, as imported type was
                                      > trimmed down to American height.
                                      >
                                      > Amy says that her friend makes it sound as though it's
                                      > a lot higher than the difference between Didot and
                                      > American (0.928 - 0.918 = 0.010 inch). Perhaps her
                                      > friend has a Vandercook designed to be used with
                                      > the type on a galley, but her friend doesn't realize this
                                      > and is just setting the base directly on the bed. That
                                      > would add approximately 0.050 inch to the height
                                      > (0.918 > 0.968").
                                      >
                                      > Just a thought.
                                      >
                                      > --Ph. D.
                                      >
                                      > Gerald Lange wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > I don't know if Vandercook made a special height
                                      > > bed for the European market but I have heard that
                                      > > FAG (Switzerland) used to import Vandercooks for
                                      > > their low end market. So maybe.
                                      > >
                                      > > Amy Borezo wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I will be receiving the Bunting Base in the mail soon and
                                      > > > will check the ID number and exact height.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > She has warned me that it is quite high, so I still might
                                      > > > have to look into the grinding option with Bunting. It fits
                                      > > > her press perfectly, which apparently is not made for
                                      > > > American type. It is a Vandercook that fits European
                                      > > > type of some kind. I did some research and found out
                                      > > > about didot, but her description makes me think it is
                                      > > > even more of a height difference than that. Were some
                                      > > > Vandercooks made for different kinds of type?
                                      >
                                    • Daniel Morris
                                      I am in the process of restoring a pair of Uni IIIs and the writing on the control plate and badges had been painted over and removing the paint on top is also
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Aug 7, 2006
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                                        I am in the process of restoring a pair of Uni IIIs
                                        and the writing on the control plate and badges had
                                        been painted over and removing the paint on top is
                                        also taking off what is meant to stay... I am thinking
                                        of making up new ones, but need a good image of what
                                        they are meant to look like in order to either
                                        digitally print directly on the metal or screen print
                                        it. Can anybody with a full auto Uni III take a photo
                                        of the badges and the control plate for me?
                                        Have a look at what I am dealing with here... Not
                                        pretty!
                                        http://tinyurl.com/o7ywt

                                        Thanks,
                                        Daniel Morris
                                        The Arm Letterpress
                                        Brooklyn, NY



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