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Grinding down a bunting base

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  • aborezo
    Hello, I have a friend offering to give me a bunting base on long term loan, but for some reason, when paired with a plate, it is higher than type high. She
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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      Hello,

      I have a friend offering to give me a bunting base on long term loan,
      but for some reason, when paired with a plate, it is higher than type
      high. She has an adjustable bed, I do not. She suggested grinding it
      down. Before I call a machinist, I'm just wondering if anyone has any
      opinions on this? Is it advisable? Any problems that could arise? Any
      idea of how much something like this might cost?

      Thanks so much,
      Amy Borezo
      www.shelterbookworks.com
    • Warren Gailbreath, Jr.
      Amy: I thought I would put my two cents worth in. Bunting Magnetic bases in my opinion are VERY expensive. Since it is on loan and the original owner may want
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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        Amy:

        I thought I would put my two cents worth in. Bunting
        Magnetic bases in my opinion are VERY expensive. Since
        it is on loan and the original owner may want it back
        eventually I would not have it machined down.

        Also if the machinist were to machine it slightly off
        that would present a whole new set of problems. When
        the bases are made they are made to order.

        Good Luck


        Warren Gailbreath,Jr.
        Southwest Finishing, Inc.
        Ft.Worth, Texas
      • parallel_imp
        ... Bunting bases are made for specific thicknesses of plate, and there are many variations. You re using the wrong plate. So buy a micrometer, measure the
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "aborezo" <aborezo@...> wrote:

          > I have a friend offering to give me a bunting base on long term loan,
          > but for some reason, when paired with a plate, it is higher than type
          > high.

          Bunting bases are made for specific thicknesses of plate, and there
          are many variations. You're using the wrong plate. So buy a
          micrometer, measure the base height, subtract that from .918", and you
          will know what thickness of plate to buy.
          -Eric Holub, SF
        • Scott Rubel
          I agree with Eric. You may have a choice of plate height and you should not need to grind it. If you do feel you should grind it, make sure your friend s
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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            I agree with Eric. You may have a choice of plate height and you should
            not need to grind it. If you do feel you should grind it, make sure your
            friend's adjustable bed will adjust to the new height.

            If you grind it, you need to ask specifically for Blanchard grinding.
            Regular milling by a machinist may not be precision enough.

            Even the smallest Bunting bases cost hundreds of dollars, so let your
            choices be well-considered.

            --Scott

            Warren Gailbreath, Jr. wrote:

            >Amy:
            >
            >I thought I would put my two cents worth in. Bunting
            >Magnetic bases in my opinion are VERY expensive. Since
            >it is on loan and the original owner may want it back
            >eventually I would not have it machined down.
            >
            >Also if the machinist were to machine it slightly off
            >that would present a whole new set of problems. When
            >the bases are made they are made to order.
            >
            >Good Luck
            >
            >
            >Warren Gailbreath,Jr.
            >Southwest Finishing, Inc.
            >Ft.Worth, Texas
            >
          • aborezo
            Hi again, Thanks to everyone who has responded so far with grinding info. Apparently, grinding a bunting base is not the best choice. Soooo, I will try to
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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              Hi again, Thanks to everyone who has responded so far with grinding
              info. Apparently, grinding a bunting base is not the best choice.
              Soooo, I will try to get the specs on the base height from her and see
              if there is a plate that will match up to type high. I'm trying to
              figure all of this out without having the base in my posession.

              Best,
              Amy Borezo
              www.shelterbookworks.com
            • Bryan Hutcheson
              We are in the market for Bunting Bases. If anyone has spare ones they want to get rid of, CALL US! bryan hutcheson manifesto letterpress 116 pleasant street -
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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                We are in the market for Bunting Bases. If anyone has spare ones they
                want to get rid of, CALL US!


                bryan hutcheson
                manifesto letterpress
                116 pleasant street - 2245
                easthampton, ma 01027
                p:413.529.0009
                f:413.529.1177
                http://www.manifestopress.com
                _________________________________
                a full-service design and letterpress studio
                announcements
                stationery
                packaging
                posters




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Gerald Lange
                Amy If you were to have the base ground you would have to send it to Bunting. The bases are a mix of materials of different densities, aluminum, steel, ceramic
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 1, 2006
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                  Amy

                  If you were to have the base ground you would have to send it to
                  Bunting. The bases are a mix of materials of different densities,
                  aluminum, steel, ceramic magnets, and would be very difficult to grind
                  properly and accurately. Also, having an outside source grind the base
                  would end the lifetime warranty. If you can send me the unique ID of
                  the base it's possible I could find out the thickness of the base for you.

                  Since Bunting grinds the bases to accomodate specific plate
                  thicknesses it is likely your friend is using the wrong plate
                  configuration if the base and plate measure over type high.

                  Bunting is so specific about the proper configuration of plate and
                  base they also do not recommend that folks use underlays with their bases.

                  Gerald
                  http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "aborezo" <aborezo@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello,
                  >
                  > I have a friend offering to give me a bunting base on long term loan,
                  > but for some reason, when paired with a plate, it is higher than type
                  > high. She has an adjustable bed, I do not. She suggested grinding it
                  > down. Before I call a machinist, I'm just wondering if anyone has any
                  > opinions on this? Is it advisable? Any problems that could arise? Any
                  > idea of how much something like this might cost?
                  >
                  > Thanks so much,
                  > Amy Borezo
                  > www.shelterbookworks.com
                  >
                • Gerald Lange
                  Amy In reply, I have been able to get information on specific thicknesses for bases connected with ID numbers, but I am not sure how extensive the record
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 2, 2006
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                    Amy

                    In reply, I have been able to get information on specific thicknesses
                    for bases connected with ID numbers, but I am not sure how extensive
                    the record keeping is. But if you send it I will inquire.

                    I can't recall off the top of my head how long Bunting has actually
                    been making bases but I'm quessing since about the mid 1980s. They
                    pretty much saturated the industrial market some long time ago. I'm
                    surprised they still continue to offer the product. They no longer
                    keep them in stock and only make them up as orders are received. I'd
                    hate to see them abandon this item as it is hands down the best
                    photopolymer plate precision base on the market. And I say that as a
                    user, not a distributor or rep (which I am). I have tried the
                    alternatives. If there was something better, I would switch over.

                    Gerald
                    http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                  • nagraph1
                    I think these date back to at least the early 70s as that s when I got my first product literature from them. They were used heavily in the box making part of
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 2, 2006
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                      I think these date back to at least the early 70s as that's when I
                      got my first product literature from them. They were used heavily in
                      the box making part of printing and tons of large flat bed presses
                      were still operating back then. We were using photopolymer plates on
                      Heidelberg cylinders where I worked in San Francisco in the 1968-69
                      era, so these things do pre-date what is thought to
                      be "contemporary" letterpress.

                      Fritz


                      > In reply, I have been able to get information on specific
                      thicknesses
                      > for bases connected with ID numbers, but I am not sure how
                      extensive
                      > the record keeping is. But if you send it I will inquire.
                      >
                      > I can't recall off the top of my head how long Bunting has actually
                      > been making bases but I'm quessing since about the mid 1980s. They
                      > pretty much saturated the industrial market some long time ago.
                      I'm
                      > surprised they still continue to offer the product. They no longer
                      > keep them in stock and only make them up as orders are received.
                      I'd
                      > hate to see them abandon this item as it is hands down the best
                      > photopolymer plate precision base on the market. And I say that as
                      a
                      > user, not a distributor or rep (which I am). I have tried the
                      > alternatives. If there was something better, I would switch over.
                      >
                      > Gerald
                      > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                      >
                    • Warren Gailbreath, Jr.
                      The first exposure I had with the Bunting base was in 1989 or 1990. The shop I was numbering checks for bought one and it is what we used to imprint the MICR
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 2, 2006
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                        The first exposure I had with the Bunting base was in
                        1989 or 1990. The shop I was numbering checks for
                        bought one and it is what we used to imprint the MICR
                        Routing and Account numbers with.

                        Until then they had somebody setting MICR in slugs.
                        They came out one day and said we are going to use
                        this now and I said OK.

                        I recently bought one for a GOOD price and it's in
                        good shape but I believe it to be old as the number on
                        the back is only 4 digits. Something like 1158 or
                        something.




                        Warren Gailbreath,Jr.
                        Southwest Finishing, Inc.
                        Ft.Worth, Texas
                      • tonyaaa2005
                        Fritz- you well traveled old-timer. I was in the Bay Area in 1968-89, but I was a 6th grader at Sunshine Gardens Elementary School in South San
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 2, 2006
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                          Fritz-

                          you well traveled old-timer. I was in the Bay Area in 1968-89,
                          but I was a 6th grader at Sunshine Gardens Elementary School in
                          South San Francisco.........


                          Best and Kindest regards,


                          Tony Archer






                          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "nagraph1" <nagraph@...> wrote:

                          >............ We were using photopolymer plates on Heidelberg
                          > cylinders where I worked in San Francisco in the 1968-69
                          > era..............
                          > Fritz
                          >
                        • amy borezo
                          I will be receiving the Bunting Base in the mail soon and will check the ID number and exact height. She has warned me that it is quite high, so I still might
                          Message 12 of 20 , Aug 2, 2006
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                            I will be receiving the Bunting Base in the mail soon and will check the ID
                            number and exact height.

                            She has warned me that it is quite high, so I still might have to look into
                            the grinding option with Bunting. It fits her press perfectly, which
                            apparently is not made for American type. It is a Vandercook that fits
                            European type of some kind. I did some research and found out about didot,
                            but her description makes me think it is even more of a height difference
                            than that. Were some Vandercooks made for different kinds of type?

                            Thanks for all of the informative historical info.

                            Best,
                            Amy Borezo
                            www.shelterbookworks.com


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Gerald Lange
                            Amy Sorry to be so slow in responding. My OS has a bad system file that I am gingerly stepping around until I can find the time to redo everything. I don t
                            Message 13 of 20 , Aug 5, 2006
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                              Amy

                              Sorry to be so slow in responding. My OS has a bad system file that I
                              am gingerly stepping around until I can find the time to redo everything.

                              I don't know if Vandercook made a special height bed for the European
                              market but I have heard that FAG (Switzerland) used to import
                              Vandercooks for their low end market. So maybe.

                              Gerald
                              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                              >
                              > I will be receiving the Bunting Base in the mail soon and will check
                              the ID
                              > number and exact height.
                              >
                              > She has warned me that it is quite high, so I still might have to
                              look into
                              > the grinding option with Bunting. It fits her press perfectly, which
                              > apparently is not made for American type. It is a Vandercook that fits
                              > European type of some kind. I did some research and found out about
                              didot,
                              > but her description makes me think it is even more of a height
                              difference
                              > than that. Were some Vandercooks made for different kinds of type?
                              >
                              > Thanks for all of the informative historical info.
                              >
                              > Best,
                              > Amy Borezo
                              > www.shelterbookworks.com
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Ph.D.
                              It seems odd that a Didot-height Vandercook would be found in the United States, as imported type was trimmed down to American height. Amy says that her friend
                              Message 14 of 20 , Aug 5, 2006
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                                It seems odd that a Didot-height Vandercook would
                                be found in the United States, as imported type was
                                trimmed down to American height.

                                Amy says that her friend makes it sound as though it's
                                a lot higher than the difference between Didot and
                                American (0.928 - 0.918 = 0.010 inch). Perhaps her
                                friend has a Vandercook designed to be used with
                                the type on a galley, but her friend doesn't realize this
                                and is just setting the base directly on the bed. That
                                would add approximately 0.050 inch to the height
                                (0.918 > 0.968").

                                Just a thought.

                                --Ph. D.

                                Gerald Lange wrote:
                                >
                                > I don't know if Vandercook made a special height
                                > bed for the European market but I have heard that
                                > FAG (Switzerland) used to import Vandercooks for
                                > their low end market. So maybe.
                                >
                                > Amy Borezo wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I will be receiving the Bunting Base in the mail soon and
                                > > will check the ID number and exact height.
                                > >
                                > > She has warned me that it is quite high, so I still might
                                > > have to look into the grinding option with Bunting. It fits
                                > > her press perfectly, which apparently is not made for
                                > > American type. It is a Vandercook that fits European
                                > > type of some kind. I did some research and found out
                                > > about didot, but her description makes me think it is
                                > > even more of a height difference than that. Were some
                                > > Vandercooks made for different kinds of type?
                              • nagraph1
                                Vandercook made whatever bed height was ordered, and it could vary by customer and country. Each proof and test press was entered as a separate order, and thus
                                Message 15 of 20 , Aug 5, 2006
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                                  Vandercook made whatever bed height was ordered, and it could vary
                                  by customer and country. Each proof and test press was entered as a
                                  separate order, and thus the customer specifications were
                                  established for each press. Even within the U.S., with its supposed
                                  uniform .918 type high, presses intended for uses other than for
                                  printers often had special bed heights.

                                  Just for the sake of argument, I just reviewed about 100 consecutive
                                  serial number cards for the Universal I's shipped in the mid-1960s
                                  and it appears the Swiss distributor for Vandercook was Monotype,
                                  not F.A.G. In Great Britain, the exclusive distributor was Soldans.

                                  Fritz

                                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Amy
                                  >
                                  > Sorry to be so slow in responding. My OS has a bad system file
                                  that I
                                  > am gingerly stepping around until I can find the time to redo
                                  everything.
                                  >
                                  > I don't know if Vandercook made a special height bed for the
                                  European
                                  > market but I have heard that FAG (Switzerland) used to import
                                  > Vandercooks for their low end market. So maybe.
                                  >
                                  > Gerald
                                  > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Lance Williams
                                  Phil, That is kind of what I was thinking. Either a galley, or a bed liner. I don t know enough about Vandercooks, but our Verner Multipresses all have what
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Aug 5, 2006
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                                    Phil,

                                    That is kind of what I was thinking. Either a galley, or a bed liner.
                                    I don't know enough about Vandercooks, but our Verner Multipresses all have
                                    what look like 11 point zinc plates (probably actually steel) on the bed to
                                    bring them up to type high. I never really knew the reason, but they are a
                                    stock item with the press.... Could some Vandercooks have been made with
                                    the same concept??

                                    - Lance Williams
                                    Williams Stationery Co.
                                    Camden, New York
                                    APA #785


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Ph.D.
                                    To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: 8/5/2006 11:27:17 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Grinding down a bunting base


                                    It seems odd that a Didot-height Vandercook would
                                    be found in the United States, as imported type was
                                    trimmed down to American height.

                                    Amy says that her friend makes it sound as though it's
                                    a lot higher than the difference between Didot and
                                    American (0.928 - 0.918 = 0.010 inch). Perhaps her
                                    friend has a Vandercook designed to be used with
                                    the type on a galley, but her friend doesn't realize this
                                    and is just setting the base directly on the bed. That
                                    would add approximately 0.050 inch to the height
                                    (0.918 > 0.968").

                                    Just a thought.

                                    --Ph. D.

                                    Gerald Lange wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I don't know if Vandercook made a special height
                                    > bed for the European market but I have heard that
                                    > FAG (Switzerland) used to import Vandercooks for
                                    > their low end market. So maybe.
                                    >
                                    > Amy Borezo wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I will be receiving the Bunting Base in the mail soon and
                                    > > will check the ID number and exact height.
                                    > >
                                    > > She has warned me that it is quite high, so I still might
                                    > > have to look into the grinding option with Bunting. It fits
                                    > > her press perfectly, which apparently is not made for
                                    > > American type. It is a Vandercook that fits European
                                    > > type of some kind. I did some research and found out
                                    > > about didot, but her description makes me think it is
                                    > > even more of a height difference than that. Were some
                                    > > Vandercooks made for different kinds of type?
                                  • Gerald Lange
                                    Fritz Thanks. It is so easy to pull the correct info from you, all one has to do is post slightly errant. :–) Gerald http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Aug 5, 2006
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                                      Fritz

                                      Thanks. It is so easy to pull the correct info from you, all one has
                                      to do is post slightly errant. :–)

                                      Gerald
                                      http://BielerPress.blogspot.com



                                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "nagraph1" <nagraph@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Vandercook made whatever bed height was ordered, and it could vary
                                      > by customer and country. Each proof and test press was entered as a
                                      > separate order, and thus the customer specifications were
                                      > established for each press. Even within the U.S., with its supposed
                                      > uniform .918 type high, presses intended for uses other than for
                                      > printers often had special bed heights.
                                      >
                                      > Just for the sake of argument, I just reviewed about 100 consecutive
                                      > serial number cards for the Universal I's shipped in the mid-1960s
                                      > and it appears the Swiss distributor for Vandercook was Monotype,
                                      > not F.A.G. In Great Britain, the exclusive distributor was Soldans.
                                      >
                                      > Fritz
                                      >
                                      > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Amy
                                      > >
                                      > > Sorry to be so slow in responding. My OS has a bad system file
                                      > that I
                                      > > am gingerly stepping around until I can find the time to redo
                                      > everything.
                                      > >
                                      > > I don't know if Vandercook made a special height bed for the
                                      > European
                                      > > market but I have heard that FAG (Switzerland) used to import
                                      > > Vandercooks for their low end market. So maybe.
                                      > >
                                      > > Gerald
                                      > > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Ph.D.
                                      Yes, many of the Vandercooks that I ve seen have a steel liner that fits in the bed. If you re using galleys, you take it off. If you re not using galleys
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Aug 5, 2006
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                                        Yes, many of the Vandercooks that I've seen have a steel
                                        liner that fits in the bed. If you're using galleys, you take it off.
                                        If you're not using galleys (perhaps you have a form already
                                        locked in a chase), then you put on the liner.

                                        --Ph D.

                                        Lance Williams wrote:
                                        >
                                        > That is kind of what I was thinking. Either a galley, or a
                                        > bed liner. I don't know enough about Vandercooks, but our
                                        > Verner Multipresses all have what look like 11 point zinc
                                        > plates (probably actually steel) on the bed to bring them
                                        > up to type high. I never really knew the reason, but they are
                                        > a stock item with the press.... Could some Vandercooks
                                        > have been made with the same concept??
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Ph.D. wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Amy says that her friend makes it sound as though it's
                                        > a lot higher than the difference between Didot and
                                        > American (0.928 - 0.918 = 0.010 inch). Perhaps her
                                        > friend has a Vandercook designed to be used with
                                        > the type on a galley, but her friend doesn't realize this
                                        > and is just setting the base directly on the bed. That
                                        > would add approximately 0.050 inch to the height
                                        > (0.918 > 0.968").
                                        >
                                        > Just a thought.
                                        >
                                        > --Ph. D.
                                        >
                                        > Gerald Lange wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > I don't know if Vandercook made a special height
                                        > > bed for the European market but I have heard that
                                        > > FAG (Switzerland) used to import Vandercooks for
                                        > > their low end market. So maybe.
                                        > >
                                        > > Amy Borezo wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I will be receiving the Bunting Base in the mail soon and
                                        > > > will check the ID number and exact height.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > She has warned me that it is quite high, so I still might
                                        > > > have to look into the grinding option with Bunting. It fits
                                        > > > her press perfectly, which apparently is not made for
                                        > > > American type. It is a Vandercook that fits European
                                        > > > type of some kind. I did some research and found out
                                        > > > about didot, but her description makes me think it is
                                        > > > even more of a height difference than that. Were some
                                        > > > Vandercooks made for different kinds of type?
                                      • Gerald Lange
                                        Phil Earlier in the thread Amy mentioned that her friend had a Vandercook with an adjustable bed. So it would not be just .918 or .968. I don t know offhand
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Aug 5, 2006
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                                          Phil

                                          Earlier in the thread Amy mentioned that her friend had a Vandercook
                                          with an adjustable bed. So it would not be just .918 or .968. I don't
                                          know offhand what the adjustable bed range of a Vandercook is. But my
                                          understanding is that Bunting stocks at .918 and grinds down as per
                                          order of specific plate thickness.

                                          Gerald
                                          http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                                          -- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Ph.D." <phil@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > It seems odd that a Didot-height Vandercook would
                                          > be found in the United States, as imported type was
                                          > trimmed down to American height.
                                          >
                                          > Amy says that her friend makes it sound as though it's
                                          > a lot higher than the difference between Didot and
                                          > American (0.928 - 0.918 = 0.010 inch). Perhaps her
                                          > friend has a Vandercook designed to be used with
                                          > the type on a galley, but her friend doesn't realize this
                                          > and is just setting the base directly on the bed. That
                                          > would add approximately 0.050 inch to the height
                                          > (0.918 > 0.968").
                                          >
                                          > Just a thought.
                                          >
                                          > --Ph. D.
                                          >
                                          > Gerald Lange wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > I don't know if Vandercook made a special height
                                          > > bed for the European market but I have heard that
                                          > > FAG (Switzerland) used to import Vandercooks for
                                          > > their low end market. So maybe.
                                          > >
                                          > > Amy Borezo wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I will be receiving the Bunting Base in the mail soon and
                                          > > > will check the ID number and exact height.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > She has warned me that it is quite high, so I still might
                                          > > > have to look into the grinding option with Bunting. It fits
                                          > > > her press perfectly, which apparently is not made for
                                          > > > American type. It is a Vandercook that fits European
                                          > > > type of some kind. I did some research and found out
                                          > > > about didot, but her description makes me think it is
                                          > > > even more of a height difference than that. Were some
                                          > > > Vandercooks made for different kinds of type?
                                          >
                                        • Daniel Morris
                                          I am in the process of restoring a pair of Uni IIIs and the writing on the control plate and badges had been painted over and removing the paint on top is also
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Aug 7, 2006
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                                            I am in the process of restoring a pair of Uni IIIs
                                            and the writing on the control plate and badges had
                                            been painted over and removing the paint on top is
                                            also taking off what is meant to stay... I am thinking
                                            of making up new ones, but need a good image of what
                                            they are meant to look like in order to either
                                            digitally print directly on the metal or screen print
                                            it. Can anybody with a full auto Uni III take a photo
                                            of the badges and the control plate for me?
                                            Have a look at what I am dealing with here... Not
                                            pretty!
                                            http://tinyurl.com/o7ywt

                                            Thanks,
                                            Daniel Morris
                                            The Arm Letterpress
                                            Brooklyn, NY



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