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post-exposure changes

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  • Mark Attwood
    Dear Listers, I am about to start a book with an artist, using line art which we will scan and make into polymer blocks. The artist has asked if he can somehow
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 6, 2002
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      Dear Listers,

      I am about to start a book with an artist, using line art which we will scan
      and make into polymer blocks.

      The artist has asked if he can somehow work on or manipulate the polymer
      plates once they are made, perhaps in the way that one can work on a lino
      block with caustic soda to get tonal areas?

      Has anyone had any success with anything like this? or possibly suggest any
      methods which may work?

      Thanks,
      Mark.



      Mark Attwood

      The Artists' Press
      Box 623
      Newtown
      2113
      South Africa

      Tel. +27 11 836 5474
      fax. +27 11 836 6858
      mark@...
    • bielerpr
      ... Hi Mark Been a bit Water itself works, as a solvent, for altering the surface at any time prior to initial washout (pre-exposure, during exposure). The
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 6, 2002
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        --- In PPLetterpress@y..., "Mark Attwood" <mark@a...> wrote:
        > Dear Listers,
        >
        > I am about to start a book with an artist, using line art which we will scan
        > and make into polymer blocks.
        >
        > The artist has asked if he can somehow work on or manipulate the polymer
        > plates once they are made, perhaps in the way that one can work on a lino
        > block with caustic soda to get tonal areas?
        >
        > Has anyone had any success with anything like this? or possibly suggest any
        > methods which may work?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Mark.

        Hi Mark

        Been a bit

        Water itself works, as a solvent, for altering the surface at any
        time prior to initial washout (pre-exposure, during exposure). The
        stuff seems to have an affinity for the acidic, such as vinegar?!?
        Don't know about alcohol, recently heard (?) not to use that as a
        plate solvent? Any form of pressure pre-exposure as well will effect
        the printing surface. Post exposure would then lock in whatever work
        had been accomplished.

        Afterwards, I'm not sure. Partly, it's a timed thing. The more post
        exposure the "harder" the plate gets. The more exposure to ozone, the
        more brittle, it kills them. And they have a relatively short life
        expectancy. No problem if you have negs (you can just remake them),
        but if you are manipulating the plate itself, a concern. I understand
        photopolymer can be revived with a carbon dioxide bath but... how do
        you do that?

        There has been an awful lot of experimentation with mixed results. I
        know someone who put potting soil on a plate, exposed it, and got
        incredible cloud-like effects. Who knows? A lot of printmakers have been
        working with photopolymer...

        Gerald
      • Harold Kyle
        ... For water-washable photopolymer isopropyl is okay (insofar as there is no reaction or swelling) but ethyl and methyl alcohol are not. But maybe that s the
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 6, 2002
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          On 6/6/02 4:50 AM, "bielerpr" <bieler@...> wrote:
          > Don't know about alcohol, recently heard (?) not to use that as a
          > plate solvent?

          For water-washable photopolymer isopropyl is okay (insofar as there is no
          reaction or swelling) but ethyl and methyl alcohol are not. But maybe that's
          the effect the artist is looking for.

          Harold

          ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
          Boxcar Press
          Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
          640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
          315-473-0930 ~ phone and fax
          www.boxcarpress.com
          ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
        • Katie Harper
          Lots of printmakers manipulate polymer plates, as Gerald pointed out. The techniques can be interesting and effective for intaglio, where every little
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 6, 2002
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            Lots of printmakers manipulate polymer plates, as Gerald pointed out. The
            techniques can be interesting and effective for intaglio, where every little
            mark--whether gouged or eaten by solvent--might affect the way it inks. In
            relief, however, you are limited (I would think) to what stays on the
            surface instead of substances or marks that eat away at the top surface. I
            would think "additive" techniques might be better, such as spray paint for a
            sort of aquatint effect...?


            Katie Harper
            Ars Brevis Press
            Cincinnati, OH
            513-233-9588




            > From: "Mark Attwood" <mark@...>
            > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 08:37:04 +0000
            > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [PPLetterpress] post-exposure changes
            >
            > Dear Listers,
            >
            > I am about to start a book with an artist, using line art which we will scan
            > and make into polymer blocks.
            >
            > The artist has asked if he can somehow work on or manipulate the polymer
            > plates once they are made, perhaps in the way that one can work on a lino
            > block with caustic soda to get tonal areas?
            >
            > Has anyone had any success with anything like this? or possibly suggest any
            > methods which may work?
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Mark.
            >
            >
            >
            > Mark Attwood
            >
            > The Artists' Press
            > Box 623
            > Newtown
            > 2113
            > South Africa
            >
            > Tel. +27 11 836 5474
            > fax. +27 11 836 6858
            > mark@...
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ? To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
            > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            > ? Encountering problems? contact:
            > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
            > ? To unsubscribe:
            > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • Gerald Lange
            ... Mark I don t know. Pressure, such as finger pressure, can adversely effect plates for type etc. I meant though, pressure prior to exposure. But, why not?
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 6, 2002
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              > You mentioned that any pressure on the polymer pre-exposure could be locked
              > in by exposure, and then printed. Does this mean that you could vacuum
              > textures like lace, leaves etc. onto the surface of the block, and then
              > "lock in" the dent by exposing it and print it?, like "Nature Printing" used
              > to work? I guess it would then be printed intaglio as Katie Harper
              > suggested. Has anyone experimented with this at all?
              >
              > Regards,
              > Mark.
              >
              > Mark Attwood
              > mark@...

              Mark

              I don't know. Pressure, such as finger pressure, can adversely effect plates
              for type etc. I meant though, pressure prior to exposure. But, why not? Any of
              the normal precautions one would take in rendering type could be reversed for
              effect in manipulating the plate. So yes, you can vacuum objects onto the
              plate and get imagery; what exactly that would look like I do not know.

              Let us know...

              There are a number of printmakers who have websites on their procedures. I've
              put as much as I cared to find (!) in the Bookmarks section.

              Gerald
            • Mark Attwood
              ... This is fascinating, what an amazing idea. Thanks Gerald, I will experiment and see what works for me. You mentioned that any pressure on the polymer
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 6, 2002
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                Gerald wrote:
                > There has been an awful lot of experimentation with mixed results. I
                > know someone who put potting soil on a plate, exposed it, and got
                > incredible cloud-like effects. Who knows? A lot of printmakers have been
                > working with photopolymer...

                This is fascinating, what an amazing idea. Thanks Gerald, I will experiment
                and see what works for me.

                You mentioned that any pressure on the polymer pre-exposure could be locked
                in by exposure, and then printed. Does this mean that you could vacuum
                textures like lace, leaves etc. onto the surface of the block, and then
                "lock in" the dent by exposing it and print it?, like "Nature Printing" used
                to work? I guess it would then be printed intaglio as Katie Harper
                suggested. Has anyone experimented with this at all?

                Regards,
                Mark.


                Mark Attwood
                mark@...
              • Mark Attwood
                ... Hi Katie, Very interesting, thank you, I will try the spray paint. Do you use the same polymer plates for intaglio as letterpress? I presume you would
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 7, 2002
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                  Katie Wrote:

                  > Lots of printmakers manipulate polymer plates, as Gerald pointed out. The
                  > techniques can be interesting and effective for intaglio, where every little
                  > mark--whether gouged or eaten by solvent--might affect the way it inks. In
                  > relief, however, you are limited (I would think) to what stays on the
                  > surface instead of substances or marks that eat away at the top surface. I
                  > would think "additive" techniques might be better, such as spray paint for a
                  > sort of aquatint effect...?

                  Hi Katie,
                  Very interesting, thank you, I will try the spray paint. Do you use the same
                  polymer plates for intaglio as letterpress? I presume you would expose a
                  positive rather than a negative for intaglio. sounds fascinating. I wish I
                  had an etching press to experiment.

                  regards,
                  Mark.

                  Mark Attwood

                  The Artists' Press
                  Box 623
                  Newtown
                  2113
                  South Africa

                  Tel. +27 11 836 5474
                  fax. +27 11 836 6858
                  mark@...
                • Katie Harper
                  Yes, one uses positives. In printmaking classes, the students often make their own positives by drawing, painting, or otherwise marking on prepared acetate or
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 7, 2002
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                    Yes, one uses positives. In printmaking classes, the students often make
                    their own positives by drawing, painting, or otherwise marking on prepared
                    acetate or mylar, exposing through objects like leaves, lace, etc. We have
                    used the same plates for both intaglio and relief, but I don't know if what
                    is optimum for one is optimum for another. Most work has been highly
                    experiemental. There is a brand sold for intaglio called Solarplate that is
                    a bit different from the plate material that I use; seems to be thinner, and
                    has a greenish cast. I have not used this for relief printing, but I think
                    many do.

                    I have to admit to a bit of a grin while reading all this about manipulating
                    plates and deliberately breaking sacred rules to get interesting
                    experimental results. Seems that we often work under that corollary of
                    Murphy's Law: when you want some type of mark to print, it won't; and if you
                    don't want it to print, it will.


                    Katie Harper
                    Ars Brevis Press
                    Cincinnati, OH
                    513-233-9588




                    > From: "Mark Attwood" <mark@...>
                    > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 07:01:27 +0000
                    > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] post-exposure changes
                    >
                    > Katie Wrote:
                    >
                    >> Lots of printmakers manipulate polymer plates, as Gerald pointed out. The
                    >> techniques can be interesting and effective for intaglio, where every little
                    >> mark--whether gouged or eaten by solvent--might affect the way it inks. In
                    >> relief, however, you are limited (I would think) to what stays on the
                    >> surface instead of substances or marks that eat away at the top surface. I
                    >> would think "additive" techniques might be better, such as spray paint for a
                    >> sort of aquatint effect...?
                    >
                    > Hi Katie,
                    > Very interesting, thank you, I will try the spray paint. Do you use the same
                    > polymer plates for intaglio as letterpress? I presume you would expose a
                    > positive rather than a negative for intaglio. sounds fascinating. I wish I
                    > had an etching press to experiment.
                    >
                    > regards,
                    > Mark.
                    >
                    > Mark Attwood
                    >
                    > The Artists' Press
                    > Box 623
                    > Newtown
                    > 2113
                    > South Africa
                    >
                    > Tel. +27 11 836 5474
                    > fax. +27 11 836 6858
                    > mark@...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ? To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                    > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    > ? Encountering problems? contact:
                    > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                    > ? To unsubscribe:
                    > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                  • Charles Jones
                    Hello Mark, I routinely cut and punch the surface of the polymer. It is like a hard lino. Cheers, Charlie
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 18, 2002
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                      Hello Mark,
                      I routinely cut and punch the surface of the polymer. It is like a hard
                      lino. Cheers, Charlie



                      _______________________________________________________________________________

                      Charles D. Jones
                      LaNana Creek Press
                      Crazy Creek Press

                      Nacogdoches, Texas
                      Artist/Teacher/Printer
                    • bielerpr
                      ... Charles Curious about this, the cutting that is (don t know what punching is!!!). Is there a length of duration involved? Plates tend to get hard and
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 23, 2002
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                        --- In PPLetterpress@y..., Charles Jones <cjones@s...> wrote:
                        > Hello Mark,
                        > I routinely cut and punch the surface of the polymer. It is like a hard
                        > lino. Cheers, Charlie

                        Charles

                        Curious about this, the cutting that is (don't know what punching
                        is!!!). Is there a length of duration involved? Plates tend to get
                        hard and brittle if exposed to the elements or over-exposed in the
                        first place. How does the cutting compare to Resolite (sp?) or that
                        kitchen counter top material that some folks are using?

                        If the plates get harder and more brittle, would engraving, rather,
                        than cutting, be possible? Don't even know why I ask this because
                        I've had problems printing on older brittle plates, but maybe there
                        is something I am missing or not aware or.

                        Gerald
                      • Charles Jones
                        ... My approach to the polymer plates was to continue with some of the working techniques that were used on zinc and mag. I have a set of engraving tools that
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 24, 2002
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                          >Curious about this, the cutting that is (don't know what punching
                          >is!!!). Is there a length of duration involved? Plates tend to get
                          >hard and brittle if exposed to the elements or over-exposed in the
                          >first place. How does the cutting compare to Resolite (sp?) or that
                          >kitchen counter top material that some folks are using?
                          >
                          >If the plates get harder and more brittle, would engraving, rather,
                          >than cutting, be possible? Don't even know why I ask this because
                          >I've had problems printing on older brittle plates, but maybe there
                          >is something I am missing or not aware or.
                          >
                          >Gerald

                          My approach to the polymer plates was to continue with some of the working
                          techniques that were used on zinc and mag. I have a set of engraving tools
                          that I have used when needed. Punching, or crible' with the tips of
                          various shaped tools was used to open up an area, add an accent, or in some
                          cases to create shapes. I also have a good set of woodcutting tools and
                          have found that when the plate is fresh, even after post-exposture (just)
                          the plate can be carved. It is easier before post exposure, and the image
                          can be proofed and then hardened. For example. a current work of mine
                          involved images of choppers landing. I made the plates with the blades
                          suggesting motion and then cut across them to create the illusion more
                          fully. The cutting is similiar to the resolite and no harder than boxwood
                          or masonite. Hope this explains more,
                          charlie



                          _______________________________________________________________________________

                          Charles D. Jones
                          LaNana Creek Press
                          Crazy Creek Press

                          Nacogdoches, Texas
                          Artist/Teacher/Printer
                        • Gerald Lange
                          ... Katie The Patmag is still available. Address etc can be found in the Database under Flatbases. There are about a dozen manufacturers of various flatbases,
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 28, 2002
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                            Katie Harper wrote:
                            >
                            > I'm wondering if there alternative bases (read not so expensive) to the
                            > Boxcar or Bunting. I have been using wood, but find it to be inconsistent,
                            > even when carefully planed. Any suggestions?
                            >
                            > Gerald: Is the PATMAG base you talk about in your book still available?
                            >
                            > Katie Harper
                            > Ars Brevis Press
                            > Cincinnati, OH
                            > 513-233-9588

                            Katie

                            The Patmag is still available. Address etc can be found in the Database under
                            Flatbases. There are about a dozen manufacturers of various flatbases, I think
                            I listed about nine of them. The Patmag is only slighly cheaper than the
                            Boxcar base though as the sizes increase so do the Boxcar base prices, relatively.

                            I would never recommend wood as a base for anything, even photoengraved
                            plates. If you have the first edition of the book you may remember there were
                            instructions on how to make your own base. This was subsequently edited out
                            with the second edition as I no longer feel I can endorse magnetized rubber
                            sheeting bases except as an economic alternative. Low-cost alternatives of any kind
                            need also to be considered as alternatives to the possibility of fine work.

                            Gerald
                          • Katie Harper
                            I m wondering if there alternative bases (read not so expensive) to the Boxcar or Bunting. I have been using wood, but find it to be inconsistent, even when
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jun 28, 2002
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                              I'm wondering if there alternative bases (read not so expensive) to the
                              Boxcar or Bunting. I have been using wood, but find it to be inconsistent,
                              even when carefully planed. Any suggestions?

                              Gerald: Is the PATMAG base you talk about in your book still available?



                              Katie Harper
                              Ars Brevis Press
                              Cincinnati, OH
                              513-233-9588
                            • Marnie Powers-Torrey
                              Katie- We used ground steel bases manufactured by a local metal shop. They are machined to a thousandth of an inch. Then we use spray adhesive to keep the
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jun 29, 2002
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                                Katie-

                                We used ground steel bases manufactured by a local metal shop. They are machined to a thousandth of an inch. Then we use spray adhesive to keep the plate in place. Rudimentary, but we've had not problems so far.

                                Marnie

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Gerald Lange [mailto:bieler@...]
                                Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 9:22 AM
                                To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Alternative Bases


                                Katie Harper wrote:
                                >
                                > I'm wondering if there alternative bases (read not so expensive) to the
                                > Boxcar or Bunting. I have been using wood, but find it to be inconsistent,
                                > even when carefully planed. Any suggestions?
                                >
                                > Gerald: Is the PATMAG base you talk about in your book still available?
                                >
                                > Katie Harper
                                > Ars Brevis Press
                                > Cincinnati, OH
                                > 513-233-9588

                                Katie

                                The Patmag is still available. Address etc can be found in the Database under
                                Flatbases. There are about a dozen manufacturers of various flatbases, I think
                                I listed about nine of them. The Patmag is only slighly cheaper than the
                                Boxcar base though as the sizes increase so do the Boxcar base prices, relatively.

                                I would never recommend wood as a base for anything, even photoengraved
                                plates. If you have the first edition of the book you may remember there were
                                instructions on how to make your own base. This was subsequently edited out
                                with the second edition as I no longer feel I can endorse magnetized rubber
                                sheeting bases except as an economic alternative. Low-cost alternatives of any kind
                                need also to be considered as alternatives to the possibility of fine work.

                                Gerald



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                              • Silver MayKitten
                                I use 3/4 lexan as a base with 11 point engravings, the cost is about the same as manufactured wood base. If you use two layers of 6 mil mounting tape the
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jul 2, 2002
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                                  I use 3/4" lexan as a base with 11 point engravings, the cost is
                                  about the same as manufactured wood base. If you use two layers of
                                  6 mil mounting tape the plate is nearly type high.

                                  MayKitten

                                  --- Katie Harper <knharper@...> wrote:
                                  > I'm wondering if there alternative bases (read not so expensive)
                                  > to the
                                  > Boxcar or Bunting. I have been using wood, but find it to be
                                  > inconsistent,
                                  > even when carefully planed. Any suggestions?
                                  >
                                  > Gerald: Is the PATMAG base you talk about in your book still
                                  > available?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Katie Harper
                                  > Ars Brevis Press
                                  > Cincinnati, OH
                                  > 513-233-9588
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  =====
                                  Pagan, Pagan, what are you finding?
                                  Yours is the road that winds lonely and far,
                                  Strange are the shadows that round you come creeping,
                                  Still through the clouds is the glint of a star!

                                  From the book, Charge of the Goddess
                                  BY: Doreen Valiente

                                  __________________________________________________
                                  Do You Yahoo!?
                                  Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
                                  http://sbc.yahoo.com
                                • bielerpr
                                  ... I tested out a Boxcar Base (w/anodized grid) and plate for the first time last night. It is a thing of beauty and while I am not a fan of plastic-backed
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jul 3, 2002
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                                    --- In PPLetterpress@y..., Katie Harper <knharper@f...> wrote:
                                    > I'm wondering if there alternative bases (read not so expensive) to the
                                    > Boxcar or Bunting. I have been using wood, but find it to be inconsistent,
                                    > even when carefully planed. Any suggestions?


                                    I tested out a Boxcar Base (w/anodized grid) and plate for the first
                                    time last night. It is a thing of beauty and while I am not a fan of
                                    plastic-backed plates and using film or spray adhesives, it worked
                                    out quite well. The film adhesive seems much less problematic than
                                    others I have worked with. I was impressed. I certainly would
                                    recommend this as an economic alternative to the Bunting, especially
                                    for institutional uses. I wasn't able to test this for travel so at
                                    this point I can't verify the claim that they don't.

                                    I also tested this out on a film negative sent to me from Xante which
                                    was produced on one of their 2400dpi laser printers w/film neg
                                    processing. That, surprisingly, worked out well also. Even the small
                                    3pt type on the neg rendered and printed well given the fact that I
                                    was working on a press I was a bit unfamiliar with and not set up in
                                    the way I would normally want to work. This was a demo for my students.

                                    Think I could easily say that this is quite the combo for
                                    institutional/instructional use. For professional bookwork I'm still
                                    learning toward the Bunting.

                                    Gerald
                                  • Katie Harper
                                    Gerald: I would love to hear your thoughts about why the Bunting is superior. I have heard a few negative comments about plate travel. I have been using the
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jul 3, 2002
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                                      Gerald: I would love to hear your thoughts about why the Bunting is
                                      superior. I have heard a few negative comments about plate travel. I have
                                      been using the Boxcar base for most of my work and have had no problems, at
                                      least not that cannot be traced to other causes-- but if I'm losing quality
                                      as a result of not using the Bunting, I would really like to know about it!


                                      Katie Harper
                                      Ars Brevis Press
                                      Cincinnati, OH
                                      513-233-9588




                                      > From: "bielerpr" <bieler@...>
                                      > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 17:50:09 -0000
                                      > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Alternative Bases
                                      >
                                      > --- In PPLetterpress@y..., Katie Harper <knharper@f...> wrote:
                                      >> I'm wondering if there alternative bases (read not so expensive) to the
                                      >> Boxcar or Bunting. I have been using wood, but find it to be inconsistent,
                                      >> even when carefully planed. Any suggestions?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I tested out a Boxcar Base (w/anodized grid) and plate for the first
                                      > time last night. It is a thing of beauty and while I am not a fan of
                                      > plastic-backed plates and using film or spray adhesives, it worked
                                      > out quite well. The film adhesive seems much less problematic than
                                      > others I have worked with. I was impressed. I certainly would
                                      > recommend this as an economic alternative to the Bunting, especially
                                      > for institutional uses. I wasn't able to test this for travel so at
                                      > this point I can't verify the claim that they don't.
                                      >
                                      > I also tested this out on a film negative sent to me from Xante which
                                      > was produced on one of their 2400dpi laser printers w/film neg
                                      > processing. That, surprisingly, worked out well also. Even the small
                                      > 3pt type on the neg rendered and printed well given the fact that I
                                      > was working on a press I was a bit unfamiliar with and not set up in
                                      > the way I would normally want to work. This was a demo for my students.
                                      >
                                      > Think I could easily say that this is quite the combo for
                                      > institutional/instructional use. For professional bookwork I'm still
                                      > learning toward the Bunting.
                                      >
                                      > Gerald
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > • To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                                      > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                      > • Encountering problems? contact:
                                      > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
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                                      >
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Gerald Lange
                                      ... Katie I’ve not experienced plate travel with steel-backed plates on a Bunting when printing on a Vandercook. I know others have when printing solids on a
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jul 3, 2002
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                                        Katie Harper wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Gerald: I would love to hear your thoughts about why the Bunting is
                                        > superior. I have heard a few negative comments about plate travel. I have
                                        > been using the Boxcar base for most of my work and have had no problems, at
                                        > least not that cannot be traced to other causes-- but if I'm losing quality
                                        > as a result of not using the Bunting, I would really like to know about it!
                                        >

                                        > >
                                        > > --- In PPLetterpress@y..., Katie Harper <knharper@f...> wrote:
                                        > >> I'm wondering if there alternative bases (read not so expensive) to the
                                        > >> Boxcar or Bunting. I have been using wood, but find it to be inconsistent,
                                        > >> even when carefully planed. Any suggestions?
                                        > >


                                        Katie

                                        I’ve not experienced plate travel with steel-backed plates on a Bunting when
                                        printing on a Vandercook. I know others have when printing solids on a
                                        Heidleberg and similar presses. I’ve not heard from other printers that a
                                        Boxcar base solves this problem.

                                        It should be said that the Bunting Cerface was developed specifically for the
                                        printing industry and is available with options, such as kerfs, scribe lines,
                                        pin registration. They are customizable for a variety of printing
                                        applications. Any travel or registration problems that are the result of
                                        specific use instances are preventable with a properly configured base.

                                        But this is a bit perplexing to me. You said previously you were using wood
                                        bases and your inquiry concerned the Patmag; now you say you use the Boxcar.
                                        (Are you just fishing?)



                                        Is not “quality” determined by the artifact? The work process itself is only
                                        the road. That one tool or one material is better than other can be determined
                                        by how well that road was traveled. I was told once to look to the work of
                                        printers I admired. Good advice.

                                        Gerald
                                      • Harold Kyle
                                        Gerry: Thanks for sharing your positive experience with the Boxcar Base. I d like to respond to some of your recent comments... ... Plate travel on a
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jul 5, 2002
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Gerry:

                                          Thanks for sharing your positive experience with the Boxcar Base. I'd like
                                          to respond to some of your recent comments...

                                          On 7/3/02 6:02 PM, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...> wrote:
                                          > I've not experienced plate travel with steel-backed plates on a Bunting when
                                          > printing on a Vandercook. I know others have when printing solids on a
                                          > Heidleberg and similar presses.

                                          Plate travel on a Vandercook with Buntings is what got me started with
                                          non-magnetic bases in the first place. This is not likely to happen in
                                          bookwork, Gerry, but with large solids and heavy impression the plate tends
                                          to move away from the feedboard--often in 1/16" increments.

                                          I've talked with other printers who have experienced this as well. They
                                          often remedy the creep with spray adhesive, scotch tape, or large "blanks"
                                          butted up at the tail end of the printing plate to block the movement. Spray
                                          adhesive and scotch tape are non-magnetic, I might add. Magnets are very
                                          good at holding down, but they don't hold things quite as well side to side.

                                          > I've not heard from other printers that a Boxcar base solves this problem.

                                          Well, if the Boxcar Base doesn't solve plate creep, then we offer a full
                                          refund (and we have not needed to issue any refunds yet). This I've of
                                          perfect register applies to all plates larger than 0.5" by 0.5" mounted as
                                          recommended in our owner's manual. Creep has never been an issue with a
                                          Boxcar Base.

                                          > It should be said that the Bunting Cerface was developed specifically for the
                                          > printing industry and ....any travel or registration problems that are the
                                          > result of specific use instances are preventable with a properly configured
                                          > base.

                                          It sounds as if you're implying that the Bunting Cerface is unique because
                                          it was made specifically for the printing industry. However, the Boxcar Base
                                          was developed specifically for letterpress and therefore is perfectly suited
                                          to the needs of letterpress printers. The Boxcar Base uses the same mounting
                                          system as much of the flexo and rotary letterpress industry, and I think
                                          it's safe to say that more polymer plates are mounted by adhesive in "the
                                          industry" than by magnets.

                                          I wasn't aware of the pin registration system for Buntings. Do you need a
                                          punch to make holes in the plate? Are there posts or holes on the surface of
                                          the Bunting which limit the size of plates that you can use? Could you
                                          elaborate on how the kerfs fight plate drift? Do these kerfs limit where you
                                          can put the plate on the surface?

                                          Buntings are very well machined bases, and for bookwork I would agree that
                                          they provide a wonderful printing surface. But the Boxcar Bases do give
                                          plates' stronger shear strength, weaker peal strength (for easier
                                          repositioning), and are priced much more affordably. Assuming that for a
                                          specific job you don't experience plate drift with a Bunting, the printing
                                          quality with a Bunting and a Boxcar Base is identical.

                                          I feel with the current technology that the Boxcar Base is the best system,
                                          but we're always looking for ways to improve - if you experience any
                                          specific shortcomings while using the Boxcar Base, please let me know!

                                          Re: more affordable bases.
                                          "More affordable" bases often aren't made to the precise tolerances of a
                                          Boxcar Base, and prove to be more expensive because of time involved to hang
                                          excessive makeready, multiplied by every press run. Our bases nowadays come
                                          in well below our guaranteed tolerances and in many cases only have .0003"
                                          variation across the surface. This eliminates much of the makeready that
                                          would face the user of a poorly machined base. Boxcar Press has dependable
                                          bases on our shelves, ready to ship, backed with a guarantee--so you
                                          shouldn't have to go through the hassle of making a base yourself when the
                                          results probably won't be as consistent.

                                          Harold

                                          ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                                          Boxcar Press
                                          Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
                                          640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
                                          315-473-0930 ~ phone and fax
                                          www.boxcarpress.com
                                          ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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