What happened here?
- Gerald Lange <bieler@...> wrote:
Kelly and Kseniya
This is talking head BS. If you folks want to characterize experienced
printers as old farts and elists, you've got issues. Why indeed would
you insist on the point of apprenticing with people that you obviously
WOW.... i honestly cant say anymore. if you will re-read my posts, i can assure you they are tempered with great respect, often trying to sympathize with frustrations you must feel about newer folks yet trying to share another perspective.
i only joined this group LESS than a week ago. i never posted messages months ago requesting apprenticeships. i never sent emails such as... i am a graphic designer and i want to start a stationery co...help me. originally i was interested in the thread regarding the vandercook use vs. the c&p. i thought there was a lot of good advice given to the girl who had originally asked. eventually i responded to some emails this week because i am stubborn and felt the need to stick up for other new folks who want to learn, regardless of their motives, when the emails started getting ugly. in fact in my first emails i was asking about a press with a clutch and getting some advice but no one responded to that.
i cant recall joining a group where so quickly i dreaded checking my emails. i have tried several times in my last emails to divert the thread back towards a positive place. i still want to know about the damn clutch but oh well. while i may be stubborn and opinionated, i am not a masochist. it is obvious that while there are some very interesting, lovely people here, the opinions most loudly and frequently expressed are discouraging and negative. i have posted many times on briar press regarding different press & plate issues both asking and answering. the discussion board is great but i was hoping this forum would help fill in the gaps where briar press is lacking. however, i think i will just stick to briar press so that this group may continue as is without my interference. on b.p., right now people are organizing a print exchange which is something i would rather focus on than a discussion that really is going nowhere.
for those who have given little bits of valuable advice here and there (both idealistic & realistic), thanks so much. i think it is responsible to warn people about bad press choices, realistic shop practices etc. this, i want to know and anyone who is serious about learning should want to know.
for those who have not responded in kind, i apologize if you feel you aren't being given your due respect. i certainly don't feel that way and have stated over and over my utter appreciation towards those who have paved the way. perhaps you will warm over time to the idea of younger people - in my case, if you consider 33, young :), finding an interest in letterpress. there will be people who are lazy and irresponsible and aren't dedicated enough. this isn't just in the world of letterpress. anything that can be romanticized or glamorized will ultimately have people who are in it only until they realize they may get a little dirt under their nails.
having taught photography to teenagers for the past 8 years, i can't tell you the number of kids who sign up because of their 'ideal' of photo. they want all the bells and whistles and the new cameras that will do it automatically. they don't want to learn about the tradition and history... how photography was originally done by those with the highest level of training and was not access able to every yokel... how photographers risked their lives standing in the middle of a civil war battlefield to photograph because the medium demanded that the plates be developed on the spot. and while in those 8 years these kids have come and gone, their interest waxing and waning, there are those few who will amaze you. who are dedicated more than you could ever ask for. and it makes it all worthwhile. some of them even change their whole lives and future plans to revolve around this passion for photography. do i fear they will become my competition? heavens no. if that were
the case i would no longer have a reason to teach. it is the greatest feeling to know that someone will become a part of something that i love, because i taught them and taught them well.
take this as you will. i meant no harm. good luck with your endeavors, perhaps i will pass you on another message board. i'm just too tired to continue to respond here. but please try not to scare off every new person who joins. :)
ps... i never called anyone a 'fart'. ...just spunky.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- I would love to offer an apprenticeship to anyone willing to learn
letterpress printing, but there are several problems with the concept in
#1: Location: Rural Upstate New York, 35 miles NNE of Syracuse, in the
middle of nowhere, so it is hard to find anyone to want to move here.
Outside of working, there is little or nothing to do.... (Hey, that may be
a benefit, the apprentice can work 24/7 <grin>).
#2: Current employee: We have one part time employee working on our one
regular local commercial account, and would not want to displace him for an
#3: Work Volume: Since our fund raising side of the business has suffered
drastic decreases in the past 5-6 years, we are working on developing other
lines of work, but until that develops more fully, we just don't have
enough work to keep anyone on a full-time basis...
Other than that, I would love to share my experience of operating a
commercial letterpress operation for the past 26 years. We have (4) Miehle
Vertical V-50's, (5) B. Verner Model FM Multipresses (for envelopes,
mainly), (1) C&P 10x15 Craftsman w/Rice Feeder, (1) C&P 10x15 Craftsman
Handfed and (1) C&P 8x12 NS. We use all of these presses on various
projects. When we were 100% in the stationery fund raising business, each
press was set up to run a single product line. Now, I am looking for
additional other work to keep more of this equipment in operation more
often. Once that developes, maybe if there are some interested people, I
could take on an apprentice or two to learn the craft. Oh, yeah, our type
setting department consists of 3 Intertypes and 2 Ludlows with 40+ fonts
for the Ludlows and 20+ fonts for the Intertypes. We long ago dumped all
of our foundry type to the scrap dealer (20 years ago or so, my father's
decision, not mine....).
With this in mind as well: an apprenticeship with us would include most of
what Allen described, as we have about the same type of operation as his,
except for the foundry type part of the operation. (We do still have 3
cases of foundry type, however, so someone could learn the layout of a
Calif. Job Case, etc...) It is a dirty job at times, and everything to
keep a commercial shop operating has to be in the brain of the owner, so
you have to learn everything from the bottom up....
- Lance Williams, President
Williams Stationery Co.
(Printer of Kadet Stationery)
Camden, New York
> [Original Message]thoughtful email should be. I DO think us young ones need to know what is
> From: Kelly Maron <kellymaron@...>
> To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: 6/4/2006 12:41:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Internships/Apprenticeships
> See... this is a realistic yet not alienating email. This is what a
involved, the unglamorous and unromantic side. But know that there are a
few of us out there who may be naive and inexperienced but WILL work our
butts off. Hopefully this group allows us to find each other.
> Allen Stump <adstump@...> wrote:
> ' Evening Kseniya, Kelly et al -
> Regarding apprenticeships, internships:
> I run a traditional job printing shop, a bit of
> a time warp perhaps, producing quality printing
> primarily from type and engravings. Recently I
> have spent a lot of time talking and e-mailing
> folks that want to learn the craft, at least a
> half a dozen so far in my current incarnation.
> Results; zero, nada, zip. All full of idealism
> and perhaps a bit naive as to the actual aspects
> of being an intern leading to an apprenticeship.
> On occasion these duties are are hot, physical
> and demanding - ie: cleaning the plungers, wells
> and skimming the pots on the Elrod, Ludlow and
> Intertype. In addition, about once a month,
> firing up the remelt furnace and casting pigs for
> the machines. Duties also include filling up the
> lead and slug racks and sorting of copper and
> brass spaces.Then there is always type to dis and
> fonts to be dissed into cases, proofs pulled and
> cataloged. Galleys to be dumped and or saved.
> Keeping the stone and banks tidy, furniture
> stowed correctly in cabinets. Hand feeding,
> "machine minding" automatic presses, plus the
> care of presses (washing up and maintenance)
> Hand folding and bindery work, shrink wrapping,
> padding and paper cutting. Plus the usual grunge
> work, sweeping the floor and dumping the trash.
> Being a certified "old fart" (and a touch
> cranky), I'd like to teach some one to learn this
> craft/trade/business with a long range view of
> someone to take care of this business after my
> demise. My children have divorced me a long time
> ago and essentially have no one to leave this
> fine collection of stuff to and I'd definitely
> hate to see it dumped for scrap.
> Anyway, enough of ranting and raving, for now.
> a Mano Press � Allen Stump, Printer
> 22568 Mission Blvd. # 504 Hayward, CA 94541
> (510) 780-0520 (Shop) � (510)
> 582-4830 (Fax) � (510) 209-0740 (Cell)
> http://www.amanopress.com/ - e: printer@...
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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