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Re: [PPLetterpress] snots & fonts

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  • Peter Fraterdeus
    ... Hmm. The type design community had a short but hearty hurrah. This publisher is well known for his disdain of intellectual property and the creative
    Message 1 of 9 , May 1, 2006
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      > > L's controversial but long-lived, useful, and
      > > extraordinarily comprehensive typographic site has apparently been
      > > censored and wiped from McG Uni's database but is now, thankfully,
      > > up at
      > > ...
      > >
      >> Freedom of speech and the expression of ideas lives? stay tuned.
      >>
      >> Gerald Lange
      > > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

      Hmm. The type design community had a short but hearty hurrah.

      This 'publisher' is well known for his disdain of intellectual property and the creative efforts of type designers.
      In particular his links to known font and software pirates have been a continual source of dispute.

      Before writing this note, I went to said site, and indeed, there is much of potential value there.
      It's only too bad that the publisher would not leave well enough alone.

      It's one thing to give away one's own property, another to encourage others to give their own away, but quite another indeed, to give away another's property... or to encourage those that do.

      While we may believe that Adobe, Apple or Microsoft can absorb the loss of type sales (and in fact, often give fonts away as part of the OS, or as marketing incentives), it is not true at all for the small professional foundries, whether Hoefler & Frere-Jones, Font Bureau, P22, et alia

      When the fellow encourages the pirating of original type design from these creative hardworking designers, I think he deserves censure and disdain himself.

      He apparently attempts to make himself known at conferences as some sort of expert, but I don't believe he has designed a type family himself, nor tried to make a living doing so.

      As an example, amongst his listings (many of which are wildly obsolete, btw) is a large enthusiastic review of "@p0str0phic Labor@t0rie5" * whose proprietor is alleged (in fact was sued and found liable, if I'm not mistaken) to have taken commercial fonts, run them through an editor to change -- nothing, essentially, except the copyright -- and then release them as "free". In fact, said proprietor, if I'm not mistaken, cheerfully acknowledged and bragged thereof.

      This is not an academic discussing pornography, to cite an analogy I've seen bandied about.
      It's simply aiding and abetting copyright infringement, aka piracy.

      That's my 3 cents and I'll stick with it.
      P

      * leet so as not to allow easy archive access to this name

      AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
      ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!

      Semiotx Inc. http://typeandmeaning.com
      Web Strategy Consulting Communication Design Typography
      Peter Fraterdeus http://www.fraterdeus.com http://www.galenaphotos.com
      Galena, Illinois http://www.alphabets.com
    • Gerald Lange
      Hi Peter There is a lengthy discussion about this over at Typophile. I m not sure I would venture to say the type design community had a hurrah, though some of
      Message 2 of 9 , May 1, 2006
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        Hi Peter

        There is a lengthy discussion about this over at Typophile. I'm not
        sure I would venture to say the type design community had a hurrah,
        though some of them might have. This became more an issue of free speech.

        My defense of Luc would be that he is a mathematician with an interest
        in fonts and typefaces and had access to McGill's search engine, so
        long ago he set it to find everything there is on fonts and typefaces
        on the internet and everything that showed up went into the site. A
        spectrum of what is going on in the world of type, which includes
        theft and piracy. I can't say that I have ever seen anything where he
        personally advocated theft or piracy. Though I have seen articles
        where he is often critical of the powers that be.


        A couple of points though in regard to your post:

        I think most folks who are after free fonts would never consider
        buying a font anyway.

        Bundled fonts by the major foundries itself devalued the worth of
        fonts to the average user.

        With the complexity involved in producing OpenType fonts, the free
        font movement is essentially dead, and all that really remains is the
        remnants of the 1990s.

        Folks who copy fonts from foundries and issue them as their own rarely
        attend to the technical qualities of a typeface, and often convert
        them to the TrueType format, so their fonts are essentially useless
        for any productive purpose.

        Current bit torrent software/technology and mentality ("sharing") has
        made all and any protection of software essentially useless.

        I am on your side. Folks should get paid for their work, or there will
        not be any quality work. But Luc is not the problem. He only provided
        the access links. It is ultimately up to the individual if they want
        to steal. And that is their problem.

        Gerald


        >
        > Hmm. The type design community had a short but hearty hurrah.
        >
        > This 'publisher' is well known for his disdain of intellectual
        property and the creative efforts of type designers.
        > In particular his links to known font and software pirates have been
        a continual source of dispute.
        >
        > Before writing this note, I went to said site, and indeed, there is
        much of potential value there.
        > It's only too bad that the publisher would not leave well enough alone.
        >
        > It's one thing to give away one's own property, another to encourage
        others to give their own away, but quite another indeed, to give away
        another's property... or to encourage those that do.
        >
        > While we may believe that Adobe, Apple or Microsoft can absorb the
        loss of type sales (and in fact, often give fonts away as part of the
        OS, or as marketing incentives), it is not true at all for the small
        professional foundries, whether Hoefler & Frere-Jones, Font Bureau,
        P22, et alia
        >
        > When the fellow encourages the pirating of original type design from
        these creative hardworking designers, I think he deserves censure and
        disdain himself.
        >
        > He apparently attempts to make himself known at conferences as some
        sort of expert, but I don't believe he has designed a type family
        himself, nor tried to make a living doing so.
        >
        > As an example, amongst his listings (many of which are wildly
        obsolete, btw) is a large enthusiastic review of "@p0str0phic
        Labor@t0rie5" * whose proprietor is alleged (in fact was sued and
        found liable, if I'm not mistaken) to have taken commercial fonts, run
        them through an editor to change -- nothing, essentially, except the
        copyright -- and then release them as "free". In fact, said
        proprietor, if I'm not mistaken, cheerfully acknowledged and bragged
        thereof.
        >
        > This is not an academic discussing pornography, to cite an analogy
        I've seen bandied about.
        > It's simply aiding and abetting copyright infringement, aka piracy.
        >
        > That's my 3 cents and I'll stick with it.
        > P
        >
        > * leet so as not to allow easy archive access to this name
        >
        > AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
        > ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!
        >
        > Semiotx Inc. http://typeandmeaning.com
        > Web Strategy Consulting Communication Design Typography
        > Peter Fraterdeus http://www.fraterdeus.com http://www.galenaphotos.com
        > Galena, Illinois http://www.alphabets.com
        >
      • Gerald Lange
        To further reinforce this. For me to point to this link, which can be found by anyone searching the net: http://thepiratebay.org/details.php?id=3459434 does
        Message 3 of 9 , May 2, 2006
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          To further reinforce this. For me to point to this link, which can be
          found by anyone searching the net:

          http://thepiratebay.org/details.php?id=459434

          does this mean I advocate theft? It is only informational. The
          recipient of that information has to make their own ethical/moral
          decision.

          [though for any with greedier tastes than shaky knees, bit torrent has
          its own punishment, your computer will likely be compromised by a bad
          guy in what, maybe, a couple of minutes or so?]

          More info on bit torrent here
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bittorrent

          And to think, the web held such promise. But, invite everyone in and
          what do you get? personal websites, personal blogging, flickr personal
          photo sharing, frappr personal here I am look at me or whatever that
          is all about; everything brought down to the basic lowest common
          denominator: an old sin, Greed, and a 21st century sin, Posing.

          Peter, this ain't about Luc, it's about us.

          Gerald



          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Peter
          >
          > There is a lengthy discussion about this over at Typophile. I'm not
          > sure I would venture to say the type design community had a hurrah,
          > though some of them might have. This became more an issue of free
          speech.
          >
          > My defense of Luc would be that he is a mathematician with an interest
          > in fonts and typefaces and had access to McGill's search engine, so
          > long ago he set it to find everything there is on fonts and typefaces
          > on the internet and everything that showed up went into the site. A
          > spectrum of what is going on in the world of type, which includes
          > theft and piracy. I can't say that I have ever seen anything where he
          > personally advocated theft or piracy. Though I have seen articles
          > where he is often critical of the powers that be.
          >
          >
          > A couple of points though in regard to your post:
          >
          > I think most folks who are after free fonts would never consider
          > buying a font anyway.
          >
          > Bundled fonts by the major foundries itself devalued the worth of
          > fonts to the average user.
          >
          > With the complexity involved in producing OpenType fonts, the free
          > font movement is essentially dead, and all that really remains is the
          > remnants of the 1990s.
          >
          > Folks who copy fonts from foundries and issue them as their own rarely
          > attend to the technical qualities of a typeface, and often convert
          > them to the TrueType format, so their fonts are essentially useless
          > for any productive purpose.
          >
          > Current bit torrent software/technology and mentality ("sharing") has
          > made all and any protection of software essentially useless.
          >
          > I am on your side. Folks should get paid for their work, or there will
          > not be any quality work. But Luc is not the problem. He only provided
          > the access links. It is ultimately up to the individual if they want
          > to steal. And that is their problem.
          >
          > Gerald
          >
          >
          > >
          > > Hmm. The type design community had a short but hearty hurrah.
          > >
          > > This 'publisher' is well known for his disdain of intellectual
          > property and the creative efforts of type designers.
          > > In particular his links to known font and software pirates have been
          > a continual source of dispute.
          > >
          > > Before writing this note, I went to said site, and indeed, there is
          > much of potential value there.
          > > It's only too bad that the publisher would not leave well enough
          alone.
          > >
          > > It's one thing to give away one's own property, another to encourage
          > others to give their own away, but quite another indeed, to give away
          > another's property... or to encourage those that do.
          > >
          > > While we may believe that Adobe, Apple or Microsoft can absorb the
          > loss of type sales (and in fact, often give fonts away as part of the
          > OS, or as marketing incentives), it is not true at all for the small
          > professional foundries, whether Hoefler & Frere-Jones, Font Bureau,
          > P22, et alia
          > >
          > > When the fellow encourages the pirating of original type design from
          > these creative hardworking designers, I think he deserves censure and
          > disdain himself.
          > >
          > > He apparently attempts to make himself known at conferences as some
          > sort of expert, but I don't believe he has designed a type family
          > himself, nor tried to make a living doing so.
          > >
          > > As an example, amongst his listings (many of which are wildly
          > obsolete, btw) is a large enthusiastic review of "@p0str0phic
          > Labor@t0rie5" * whose proprietor is alleged (in fact was sued and
          > found liable, if I'm not mistaken) to have taken commercial fonts, run
          > them through an editor to change -- nothing, essentially, except the
          > copyright -- and then release them as "free". In fact, said
          > proprietor, if I'm not mistaken, cheerfully acknowledged and bragged
          > thereof.
          > >
          > > This is not an academic discussing pornography, to cite an analogy
          > I've seen bandied about.
          > > It's simply aiding and abetting copyright infringement, aka piracy.
          > >
          > > That's my 3 cents and I'll stick with it.
          > > P
          > >
          > > * leet so as not to allow easy archive access to this name
          > >
          > > AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
          > > ARTQ: Help stop in-box bloat! Always Remember to Trim the Quote!
          > >
          > > Semiotx Inc. http://typeandmeaning.com
          > > Web Strategy Consulting Communication Design Typography
          > > Peter Fraterdeus http://www.fraterdeus.com http://www.galenaphotos.com
          > > Galena, Illinois http://www.alphabets.com
          > >
          >
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