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Re: [PPLetterpress] Dampening and drying paper

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  • Mark Attwood
    I sometimes dampen paper for doing chine collé work, and drying it flat has always been a problem. Recently I saw a really simple system, which I have been
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 12, 2002
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      I sometimes dampen paper for doing chine collé work, and drying it flat has
      always been a problem. Recently I saw a really simple system, which I have
      been using for the last year or so:

      Use corrugated boards larger than your sheet, making a "sandwich" of damp
      sheets and corrugated boards. (I add acid free blotters between my printed
      sheets, but that may not be necessary). Weight the stack with something not
      too heavy or the boards will crush. Wrap the whole stack in plastic
      sheeting, leaving the fluted edge of the stack open on both sides. Use a
      household desk fan, wrapped also in the plastic to make a wind tunnel,
      blowing air through the flutes of the boards. Overnight the moisture will be
      carried out of you paper, into the corrugated boards and out through the
      flutes. and your paper will be perfectly flat and dry. It is really simple
      and works WELL!

      Mark.



      Mark Attwood

      The Artists' Press
      Box 623
      Newtown
      2113
      South Africa

      Tel. +27 11 836 5474
      fax. +27 11 836 6858
      mark@...


      ----------
      >From: "David Goodrich" <davidgoodrich@...>
      >To: "PPLetterpress@yahoogroups. com" <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
      >Subject: [PPLetterpress] Dampening and drying paper
      >Date: Fri, Apr 12, 2002, 3:00 am
      >

      > A month or two ago there was a good discussion on dampening paper. I have a
      > follow on question, which is, what is your experience in working with and
      > drying the paper?
      > I recently printed a job on dampened paper, which I had previously only
      > used for linoleum block printing, and found that on dampening the paper
      > expanded about 2% in one direction, but none in the other. This made the
      > printing not fit the page and I assume it will shrink back on drying so the
      > printed matter is 100% of the PPL plate in one direction but only 98% in the
      > other. In other words, slightly distorted. Further, on drying the paper
      > came out quite wrinkled and I am not sure that pressing it will ever get it
      > back to the flat state it started with. I am curious to know how others who
      > print on dampened paper handle these problems.
      >
      > David.
      >
      >
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      >
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      > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
      >
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      >
    • Michael Peich
      ... Dear David, The method that has always worked for me is acid-free blotter paper. I don t know the weight of the paper in grams, but it is literally
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 12, 2002
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        on 4/11/02 8:00 PM, David Goodrich at davidgoodrich@... wrote:

        > A month or two ago there was a good discussion on dampening paper. I have a
        > follow on question, which is, what is your experience in working with and
        > drying the paper?
        > I recently printed a job on dampened paper, which I had previously only
        > used for linoleum block printing, and found that on dampening the paper
        > expanded about 2% in one direction, but none in the other. This made the
        > printing not fit the page and I assume it will shrink back on drying so the
        > printed matter is 100% of the PPL plate in one direction but only 98% in the
        > other. In other words, slightly distorted. Further, on drying the paper
        > came out quite wrinkled and I am not sure that pressing it will ever get it
        > back to the flat state it started with. I am curious to know how others who
        > print on dampened paper handle these problems.
        >
        > David.
        >
        >
        > To respond to this message or post a message to the membership:
        > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Encountering problems?
        > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >


        Dear David,

        The method that has always worked for me is acid-free blotter paper.
        I don' t know the weight of the paper in grams, but it is literally blotter
        thickness. I put as many printed sheets as will fit on each sheet of
        blotter, making certain there is no overlap of dampened sheets, and stack
        them up. I normally let them dry three-four days, but on my current project
        (dampened Zerkall), they only dried for two days and were fine. By the way,
        you should put the sheets on the blotter as soon as you print them. For
        example, if I can put four printed sheets per blotter, I'll print eight and
        then transfer them to the blotters. Exposure to air is not always good, as
        you've discovered.

        I don't use any weight, other than some extra blotters on top of the
        finished stack. If one dries paper by leaving it exposed to the air, the
        cockling you experienced is probably the net result of air time.

        Good luck!

        Cheers, Mike
      • bielerpr
        David You will normally get some angular growth with dampened paper depending upon its proportions and its size. The larger the size and the more acute the
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 12, 2002
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          David

          You will normally get some angular "growth" with dampened paper
          depending upon its proportions and its size. The larger the size and
          the more acute the proportions the more stretch you might encounter,
          but this is not consistent with different handmades. This should dry
          out back to near where it started but your registration, both front
          and back, needs to take this into account. Especially frustrating
          when you are taking measurements and the paper is moving. You can lay
          your line gauge on it and actually watch it travel as it drys out!
          Note: in this regard, registration will be different on a Vandercook
          than a handpress because of the nature of the guide placements.

          Regarding curling. For some reason I never experience this. Might be
          something in the procedure I use. Off hand I'd suspect your paper may
          be too damp?

          I let the final heap air dry initially but within twelve hours I put
          it between acetate boards and keep turning these. After a couple of
          days of this I will eventually weight these but still keep turning
          the heap. In the end the paper lays out quite flat with just a subtle
          wave along the edges. During the dampening process or at any time
          during the period where the paper is hydrating or dehydrating it is
          quite important to keep the heap turning so that the humidity does
          not travel completely in one direction and then just sit there longer
          than a twelve hour period.

          Gerald

          --- In PPLetterpress@y..., "David Goodrich" <davidgoodrich@a...>
          wrote:
          > A month or two ago there was a good discussion on dampening paper. I have a
          > follow on question, which is, what is your experience in working with and
          > drying the paper?
          > I recently printed a job on dampened paper, which I had previously only
          > used for linoleum block printing, and found that on dampening the paper
          > expanded about 2% in one direction, but none in the other. This made the
          > printing not fit the page and I assume it will shrink back on drying so the
          > printed matter is 100% of the PPL plate in one direction but only 98% in the
          > other. In other words, slightly distorted. Further, on drying the paper
          > came out quite wrinkled and I am not sure that pressing it will ever get it
          > back to the flat state it started with. I am curious to know how others who
          > print on dampened paper handle these problems.
          >
          > David.
        • Yehuda Miklaf
          In addition to the excellent suggestions already given: It is possible to dry and then redampen to flatten paper. Some things I hang to dry, which here in
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 17, 2002
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            In addition to the excellent suggestions already given:

            It is possible to dry and then redampen to flatten paper. Some things I
            hang to dry, which here in Jerusalem happens very quickly, and then I
            mist them and stack between sheets of blotting paper, sometimes with
            Remay between.

            Yehuda Miklaf
          • Charles Jones
            ... Hello, Yes, that works well. The Flatbed Press in Austin, Texas uses 1/4 or 3/8 in. sheetrock, ( a porus, paper-clad wall board) that has been edged with
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 17, 2002
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              >In addition to the excellent suggestions already given:
              >
              >It is possible to dry and then redampen to flatten paper. Some things I
              >hang to dry, which here in Jerusalem happens very quickly, and then I
              >mist them and stack between sheets of blotting paper, sometimes with
              >Remay between.
              >
              >Yehuda Miklaf
              >
              >
              Hello,
              Yes, that works well. The Flatbed Press in Austin, Texas uses 1/4 or 3/8
              in. sheetrock, ( a porus, paper-clad wall board) that has been edged with
              gummed paper tape to flatten and dry prints.There is a stack of maybe 2ft
              by 4ft pieces and boards are added as the edition is pulled. I am sure
              they must use tissue or other thin paper to prevent offsetting from the
              prints to the boards.They are dryer than we are here in East Texas and I
              have not tried the method. In my classes and work, I have a stack of soft
              paper that is used to back each sheet as the print is pulled for relief,
              litho. and etching. These are stacked and covered with a sheet of plastic.
              When the printing session is done, I change the papers, add blotters and
              place all under a wooden form. I hang the damp sheets to dry, then change
              the papers each of at least three days. It helps to lay the pages out for a
              while and then re-stack them under the form. We run about 95-98% humidity
              here and even in the air conditioning it is humid.
              I trained in New Mexico where it was so dry we added salt to the litho
              water, and it is so hot here in Texas we often add ice esp. when printing
              softer colors for lithographs.
              Sorry to ramble, so much to know, and so little time.
              My new best love in paper is Magnani Pescia. It dampens by misting, prints
              relief and intaglio like magic, and will dry flat with little or no
              pressure. Cheers,
              Charlie



              _______________________________________________________________________________

              Charles D. Jones
              LaNana Creek Press
              Crazy Creek Press

              Nacogdoches, Texas
              Artist/Teacher/Printer
            • Yehuda Miklaf
              ... Where can one buy it? -Yehuda
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 18, 2002
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                >My new best love in paper is Magnani Pescia.

                Where can one buy it?

                -Yehuda
              • Charles Jones
                ... It is an Italian paper now owned by Fabriano. Magnani also has a beautiful Biblios book paper. The US importers are Savoir-Faire and ANW Crestwood, at
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 18, 2002
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                  >>My new best love in paper is Magnani Pescia.
                  >
                  >Where can one buy it?
                  >
                  >-Yehuda
                  >
                  >
                  It is an Italian paper now owned by Fabriano. Magnani also has a beautiful
                  Biblios book paper. The US importers are Savoir-Faire and ANW Crestwood,
                  at http://www.anwcrestwood.com and http://www.savoir-faire.com/, I used the
                  biblios for a volume of Pound' s Cantos, and the Pescia for "The Candide
                  Portfolio"
                  Cheers, charlie



                  _______________________________________________________________________________

                  Charles D. Jones
                  LaNana Creek Press
                  Crazy Creek Press

                  Nacogdoches, Texas
                  Artist/Teacher/Printer
                • Katie Harper
                  I found it on Daniel Smith s web site: http://www.danielsmith.net/categories-magnani-pescia.html Also, it s listed in the Stephen Kinsella catlog
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 18, 2002
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                    I found it on Daniel Smith's web site:

                    http://www.danielsmith.net/categories-magnani-pescia.html

                    Also, it's listed in the Stephen Kinsella catlog (800-445-8865)


                    Katie Harper
                    Ars Brevis Press
                    Cincinnati, OH
                    513-233-9588




                    >My new best love in paper is Magnani Pescia.

                    Where can one buy it?

                    -Yehuda
                  • Harold Kyle
                    ... The state-owned Fabriano sold off Magnani to a group of private investors in the last year or two. Magnani also makes sheets of handmade papers.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 19, 2002
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                      On 4/18/02 5:36 PM, "Charles Jones" <cjones@...> wrote:
                      > It is an Italian paper now owned by Fabriano. Magnani also has a beautiful
                      > Biblios book paper.

                      The state-owned Fabriano sold off Magnani to a group of private investors in
                      the last year or two. Magnani also makes sheets of handmade papers.
                      http://www.cartieremagnani.it
                      Brides and grooms like Pescia, I've found. Sometimes I fuel the fire by
                      mentioning Napolean Bonaparte printed his wedding announcements on Magnani
                      paper. Of course I don't mention _how_ they were printed.
                      I've don't see Biblios in my swatches. Could you be refering to the Biblio
                      made by Hahnemulhle?

                      Harold

                      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                      Boxcar Press
                      Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
                      640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
                      www.boxcarpress.com
                      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                    • Katie Harper
                      OK, Harold After that tease about Napoleon, now you must tell _how_those invitations were printed...Surely there could be nothing worse than that he had it
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 19, 2002
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                        OK, Harold

                        After that tease about Napoleon, now you must tell _how_those invitations
                        were printed...Surely there could be nothing worse than that he had it done
                        at Kinkos!


                        Katie Harper
                        Ars Brevis Press
                        Cincinnati, OH
                        513-233-9588




                        From: Harold Kyle <harold@...>
                        Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:37:36 -0400
                        To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Dampening and drying paper


                        On 4/18/02 5:36 PM, "Charles Jones" <cjones@...> wrote:
                        > It is an Italian paper now owned by Fabriano. Magnani also has a beautiful
                        > Biblios book paper.

                        The state-owned Fabriano sold off Magnani to a group of private investors in
                        the last year or two. Magnani also makes sheets of handmade papers.
                        http://www.cartieremagnani.it
                        Brides and grooms like Pescia, I've found. Sometimes I fuel the fire by
                        mentioning Napolean Bonaparte printed his wedding announcements on Magnani
                        paper. Of course I don't mention _how_ they were printed.
                        I've don't see Biblios in my swatches. Could you be refering to the Biblio
                        made by Hahnemulhle?

                        Harold

                        ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
                        Boxcar Press
                        Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
                        640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
                        www.boxcarpress.com
                        ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~


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                      • Charles Jones
                        ... No, it is fairly new and carried by Savoir-Faire. It has less texture and is a fairer color (less orangy) than Hahnemulhle s. It is more like Arches text
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 19, 2002
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                          >I've don't see Biblios in my swatches. Could you be refering to the Biblio
                          >made by Hahnemulhle?
                          >
                          No, it is fairly new and carried by Savoir-Faire. It has less texture and
                          is a fairer color (less orangy) than Hahnemulhle's. It is more like Arches
                          text wove.
                          Charlie



                          _______________________________________________________________________________

                          Charles D. Jones
                          LaNana Creek Press
                          Crazy Creek Press

                          Nacogdoches, Texas
                          Artist/Teacher/Printer
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