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Re: [PPLetterpress] Adding a motor

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  • Julie Larson
    The hardest part is probably getting the system to line up properly. My C&P press was motorized probably around 1930 and has a rediculously large 2 phase
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 10, 2006
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      The hardest part is probably getting the system to line up properly. My C&P press was motorized probably around 1930 and has a rediculously large 2 phase motor that runs a belt off of the flywheel. I hope to replace it with a smaller, more powerful 110v motor someday. My advice is to find an engineer that does machine design, or a good machine shop that makes small motor driven machines. A stock motor can be gotten from a place like McMaster Carr, but you will need the belt, electronic on/off switch, speed control and probably a gear box, and the structure to hold it all in place. A good engineer that does machine design can figure out the correct motor size and gear box needs, and determine how to place the components. I don't know what this would cost, probably less than $1000 if you are paying for labor, and it shouldn't be that hard to do.

      mzslb <mzslb@...> wrote: I'm looking at purchasing a 10 x 15 C&P. How difficult is it to add
      a motor? Who would typically provide that service and how much would
      it cost? I do know some very mechanically inclined people so is it
      something they could do - that is if it's not too difficult?

      Thanks!





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    • Matt Kelsey
      When I got my 10x15 press (Challenge-Gordon, similar to a C&P) many years ago, I got it motorized at almost no cost. We had an old 110-motor sitting around
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 10, 2006
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        When I got my 10x15 press (Challenge-Gordon, similar to a C&P) many
        years ago, I got it motorized at almost no cost. We had an old
        110-motor sitting around that had been used as a pump for a fish pond.
        At the hardware store I got a pulley to put on the motor shaft; you
        need to experiment with what size pulley is best. I attached the motor
        to a board using galvanized "plumber's tape", and attached the board
        to the skids for the press using hinges. I looked into various belts,
        but commercial v-belts seemed too expensive at the time. So I
        fashioned a rope into a belt using thin wire to bind the ends of the
        rope together into a loop. The hinges allow for the motor and its
        weight to maintain tension between the belt, pulley, and flywheel.

        Almost 30 years later, it's still working. It only has one speed
        (unless you change the pulley size) and is a little underpowered in
        starting up, but it does the job. It's possible I could add a
        dimmer-type switch that would provide speed control, but I hadn't
        considered that before. Right now my inclination is to get a treadle,
        which would be more suited to the short runs I have been doing.

        Matt Kelsey

        > Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:55:30 -0000
        > From: "mzslb" <mzslb@...>
        > Subject: Adding a motor
        >
        > I'm looking at purchasing a 10 x 15 C&P. How difficult is it to add
        > a motor? Who would typically provide that service and how much would
        > it cost? I do know some very mechanically inclined people so is it
        > something they could do - that is if it's not too difficult?
      • frogvalleyforge
        Be Careful here, this was recently posted, It s possible I could add a dimmer-type switch that would provide speed control, but I hadn t considered that
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 11, 2006
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          Be Careful here, this was recently posted,
          "It's possible I could add a dimmer-type switch that would provide
          speed control, but I hadn't considered that before."

          This is often WRONG. Most AC motors will not allow you to use a dimmer
          switch, only universal ac/dc motors are able to be used with one.
          Check what kind of motor you have.

          If you experiment with a dimmer, be aware that such a setup on the
          wrong type of motor can OVERHEAT both the dimmer and motor, to the
          point of FIRE and SPARKS and KABOOM!!

          On the matter of the original post, yes it is easy to setup and
          shouldtn't cost a $1000 bucks. A couple of hundred if you buy all new
          motors and pulleys but next to nothing if you scrounge parts and have
          a friend hook up and advize. A step pulley or two and a counter shaft
          will give you multiple speeds for just the swap of a V belt.

          If you email me the motor speed and other specs I can tell you the
          proper pully combinations to give you different speeds. New style C +
          P's would have had or should/could have had a pully on them on the
          opposite side from the flywheel to connect to a line shaft or later
          for electric motors. Mine is missing the pulley but has the provisions
          for it including the holes for the "derailer" type of belt shifter to
          put the machine in neutral.

          Anyway, I have some experience with these and I have built many a
          machine including large power hammers. I am primarily a machinist and
          blacksmith/artist, but ink flows in my blood too. Ask me and I'll
          tell you what I can.




          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Matt Kelsey <matthewkelsey@g...>
          wrote:
          >
          > When I got my 10x15 press (Challenge-Gordon, similar to a C&P) many
          > years ago, I got it motorized at almost no cost. We had an old
          > 110-motor sitting around that had been used as a pump for a fish pond.
          > At the hardware store I got a pulley to put on the motor shaft; you
          > need to experiment with what size pulley is best. I attached the motor
          > to a board using galvanized "plumber's tape", and attached the board
          > to the skids for the press using hinges. I looked into various belts,
          > but commercial v-belts seemed too expensive at the time. So I
          > fashioned a rope into a belt using thin wire to bind the ends of the
          > rope together into a loop. The hinges allow for the motor and its
          > weight to maintain tension between the belt, pulley, and flywheel.
          >
          > Almost 30 years later, it's still working. It only has one speed
          > (unless you change the pulley size) and is a little underpowered in
          > starting up, but it does the job. It's possible I could add a
          > dimmer-type switch that would provide speed control, but I hadn't
          > considered that before. Right now my inclination is to get a treadle,
          > which would be more suited to the short runs I have been doing.
          >
          > Matt Kelsey
          >
          > > Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:55:30 -0000
          > > From: "mzslb" <mzslb@a...>
          > > Subject: Adding a motor
          > >
          > > I'm looking at purchasing a 10 x 15 C&P. How difficult is it to add
          > > a motor? Who would typically provide that service and how much would
          > > it cost? I do know some very mechanically inclined people so is it
          > > something they could do - that is if it's not too difficult?
          >
        • frogvalleyforge
          Matt, Please don t take offence at my earlier post. I like alternative setups for machines and have many myself.I happen to like rope belting and have a mill
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 11, 2006
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            Matt,

            Please don't take offence at my earlier post. I like "alternative"
            setups for machines and have many myself.I happen to like rope belting
            and have a mill that is using some. Flat leather belts on over head
            line shafts are cool too.

            Cheap, no cost mods to machines are the way to go. Even if you are a
            mechanical engineer and machinist/blacksmith like me. Why spend $1000
            on a press that you got for free?

            Anyhow, hope I didn't offend.

            Mark

            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Matt Kelsey <matthewkelsey@g...>
            wrote:
            >
            > When I got my 10x15 press (Challenge-Gordon, similar to a C&P) many
            > years ago, I got it motorized at almost no cost. We had an old
            > 110-motor sitting around that had been used as a pump for a fish pond.
            > At the hardware store I got a pulley to put on the motor shaft; you
            > need to experiment with what size pulley is best. I attached the motor
            > to a board using galvanized "plumber's tape", and attached the board
            > to the skids for the press using hinges. I looked into various belts,
            > but commercial v-belts seemed too expensive at the time. So I
            > fashioned a rope into a belt using thin wire to bind the ends of the
            > rope together into a loop. The hinges allow for the motor and its
            > weight to maintain tension between the belt, pulley, and flywheel.
            >
            > Almost 30 years later, it's still working. It only has one speed
            > (unless you change the pulley size) and is a little underpowered in
            > starting up, but it does the job. It's possible I could add a
            > dimmer-type switch that would provide speed control, but I hadn't
            > considered that before. Right now my inclination is to get a treadle,
            > which would be more suited to the short runs I have been doing.
            >
            > Matt Kelsey
            >
            > > Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:55:30 -0000
            > > From: "mzslb" <mzslb@a...>
            > > Subject: Adding a motor
            > >
            > > I'm looking at purchasing a 10 x 15 C&P. How difficult is it to add
            > > a motor? Who would typically provide that service and how much would
            > > it cost? I do know some very mechanically inclined people so is it
            > > something they could do - that is if it's not too difficult?
            >
          • Scott Rubel
            I did not see the post about the dimmer experiment. Don t use a dimmer. You need what s called a variac. Here s a picture that looks similar to the one on my
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 11, 2006
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              I did not see the post about the dimmer experiment.

              Don't use a dimmer. You need what's called a variac.

              Here's a picture that looks similar to the one on my 8X12 C&P.
              http://it.stlawu.edu/~physics/labs/common/img/black_variac1.jpg

              frogvalleyforge wrote:
              > Be Careful here, this was recently posted,
              > "It's possible I could add a dimmer-type switch that would provide
              > speed control, but I hadn't considered that before."
              >
              > This is often WRONG. Most AC motors will not allow you to use a dimmer
              > switch, only universal ac/dc motors are able to be used with one.
              > Check what kind of motor you have.
              >
              > If you experiment with a dimmer, be aware that such a setup on the
              > wrong type of motor can OVERHEAT both the dimmer and motor, to the
              > point of FIRE and SPARKS and KABOOM!!
              >
              > On the matter of the original post, yes it is easy to setup and
              > shouldtn't cost a $1000 bucks. A couple of hundred if you buy all new
              > motors and pulleys but next to nothing if you scrounge parts and have
              > a friend hook up and advize. A step pulley or two and a counter shaft
              > will give you multiple speeds for just the swap of a V belt.
              >
              > If you email me the motor speed and other specs I can tell you the
              > proper pully combinations to give you different speeds. New style C +
              > P's would have had or should/could have had a pully on them on the
              > opposite side from the flywheel to connect to a line shaft or later
              > for electric motors. Mine is missing the pulley but has the provisions
              > for it including the holes for the "derailer" type of belt shifter to
              > put the machine in neutral.
              >
              > Anyway, I have some experience with these and I have built many a
              > machine including large power hammers. I am primarily a machinist and
              > blacksmith/artist, but ink flows in my blood too. Ask me and I'll
              > tell you what I can.
            • Matt Kelsey
              Mark, No offense taken. I threw in the comment about trying a dimmer in admitted ignorance and figured in the back of my mind that someone would set me
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 11, 2006
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                Mark,

                No offense taken. I threw in the comment about trying a dimmer in
                admitted ignorance and figured in the back of my mind that someone
                would set me straight if I was off track, and you did! I have used
                stepped pulleys in the past as a simple alternative for controlling
                press speed, and will look into the variac if I need to try something
                new.

                Matt

                > Matt,
                >
                > Please don't take offence at my earlier post. I like "alternative"
                > setups for machines and have many myself.I happen to like rope belting
                > and have a mill that is using some. Flat leather belts on over head
                > line shafts are cool too.
                >
                > Cheap, no cost mods to machines are the way to go. Even if you are a
                > mechanical engineer and machinist/blacksmith like me. Why spend $1000
                > on a press that you got for free?
                >
                > Anyhow, hope I didn't offend.
                >
                > Mark
              • Bill Denham
                A number of years ago I was involved in the development of machines to produce Randy s wired cigarette rolling papers Having a reasonable mechanical
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 12, 2006
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                  A number of years ago I was involved in the development of machines to produce Randy's wired cigarette rolling papers Having a reasonable mechanical aptitude but absolutely no engineering background, my formal education being in English literature, I sought the help of a rather brilliant engineer/inventor, Pete Welborn. Together, over a period of a couple of years, thousands of hours of trial and error and three progressively sophisticated incarnations, we succeded.

                  This has nothing to do with printing, per se, but it does relate to motorizing a C&P. One of the primary needs in our manufacturing process was speed contol, as we attempted to integrate these two wildly different materials--.012" stainless steel wire with 15 grams/sqm paper. Pete swore by DC motors with variable speed control. I don't remember the cost but I picked up a motor and a contol box at an electronic surplus outfit in San Jose for not too much.

                  Beyond this, I really don't know if this would work on a C&P or not but I thought I'd throw it out there. Other people may know. It's kind of a neat story, anyway--Randy's wired rolling papers--imagine that!

                  Bill

                  Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote: I did not see the post about the dimmer experiment.

                  Don't use a dimmer. You need what's called a variac.

                  Here's a picture that looks similar to the one on my 8X12 C&P.
                  http://it.stlawu.edu/~physics/labs/common/img/black_variac1.jpg

                  frogvalleyforge wrote:
                  > Be Careful here, this was recently posted,
                  > "It's possible I could add a dimmer-type switch that would provide
                  > speed control, but I hadn't considered that before."
                  >
                  > This is often WRONG. Most AC motors will not allow you to use a dimmer
                  > switch, only universal ac/dc motors are able to be used with one.
                  > Check what kind of motor you have.
                  >
                  > If you experiment with a dimmer, be aware that such a setup on the
                  > wrong type of motor can OVERHEAT both the dimmer and motor, to the
                  > point of FIRE and SPARKS and KABOOM!!
                  >
                  > On the matter of the original post, yes it is easy to setup and
                  > shouldtn't cost a $1000 bucks. A couple of hundred if you buy all new
                  > motors and pulleys but next to nothing if you scrounge parts and have
                  > a friend hook up and advize. A step pulley or two and a counter shaft
                  > will give you multiple speeds for just the swap of a V belt.
                  >
                  > If you email me the motor speed and other specs I can tell you the
                  > proper pully combinations to give you different speeds. New style C +
                  > P's would have had or should/could have had a pully on them on the
                  > opposite side from the flywheel to connect to a line shaft or later
                  > for electric motors. Mine is missing the pulley but has the provisions
                  > for it including the holes for the "derailer" type of belt shifter to
                  > put the machine in neutral.
                  >
                  > Anyway, I have some experience with these and I have built many a
                  > machine including large power hammers. I am primarily a machinist and
                  > blacksmith/artist, but ink flows in my blood too. Ask me and I'll
                  > tell you what I can.


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                  Visit your group "PPLetterpress" on the web.

                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                  ---------------------------------






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Vinayaga Prabhu
                  Hello there, Any 2HP AC motor will do to run the machine.Regarding the speed control,you can go for the VARI-SPEED Belt system like the one in the Heidelberg
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 16, 2006
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                    Hello there,
                    Any 2HP AC motor will do to run the
                    machine.Regarding the speed control,you can go for the
                    VARI-SPEED Belt system like the one in the Heidelberg
                    Platens.Its easy to make one like the Heidelberg
                    system.

                    Regards,
                    Prabhu

                    Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.yahoo.com
                  • Rodney Grantham
                    Our 10 x 15 Chandler & Price has a 1/2 horse motor. What might interest you folks is how a variable speed pulley works. http://www.granthams.com/Pulley/ shows
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 19, 2006
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                      Our 10 x 15 Chandler & Price has a 1/2 horse motor. What might
                      interest you folks is how a variable speed pulley works.
                      http://www.granthams.com/Pulley/ shows the steps on how to make one.
                      However so much printing equipment has this type of pulley that you
                      should be able to scrounge one.

                      To keep with the topics of this group, we use liquid photopolymer to
                      make the dies for imprinting wooden tokens on our C&P.

                      Rod Grantham
                    • parallel_imp
                      For Bay Area printers considering variable speed: I was out at Heagy s yesterday (less than a month left there) and saw a motor control that was left from a
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 21, 2006
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                        For Bay Area printers considering variable speed:
                        I was out at Heagy's yesterday (less than a month left there) and saw
                        a motor control that was left from a C&P that reverted to treadle (It
                        was over in the X-ray Man's section). It was a pedestal-type rheostat,
                        but the motor was not attached; that doesn't mean the motor wasn't
                        there somewhere else.
                        There are also various Variacs. And the 10 x 15 C&P that Fred Voltmer
                        has up for sale, which includes a variable speed pulley arrangement.

                        Eric Holub, SF

                        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Scott Rubel <scott@i...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I did not see the post about the dimmer experiment.
                        >
                        > Don't use a dimmer. You need what's called a variac.
                        >
                        > Here's a picture that looks similar to the one on my 8X12 C&P.
                        > http://it.stlawu.edu/~physics/labs/common/img/black_variac1.jpg
                        >
                        > frogvalleyforge wrote:
                        > > Be Careful here, this was recently posted,
                        > > "It's possible I could add a dimmer-type switch that would provide
                        > > speed control, but I hadn't considered that before."
                        > >
                        > > This is often WRONG. Most AC motors will not allow you to use a dimmer
                        > > switch, only universal ac/dc motors are able to be used with one.
                        > > Check what kind of motor you have.
                        > >
                        > > If you experiment with a dimmer, be aware that such a setup on the
                        > > wrong type of motor can OVERHEAT both the dimmer and motor, to the
                        > > point of FIRE and SPARKS and KABOOM!!
                        > >
                        > > On the matter of the original post, yes it is easy to setup and
                        > > shouldtn't cost a $1000 bucks. A couple of hundred if you buy all new
                        > > motors and pulleys but next to nothing if you scrounge parts and have
                        > > a friend hook up and advize. A step pulley or two and a counter shaft
                        > > will give you multiple speeds for just the swap of a V belt.
                        > >
                        > > If you email me the motor speed and other specs I can tell you the
                        > > proper pully combinations to give you different speeds. New style C +
                        > > P's would have had or should/could have had a pully on them on the
                        > > opposite side from the flywheel to connect to a line shaft or later
                        > > for electric motors. Mine is missing the pulley but has the provisions
                        > > for it including the holes for the "derailer" type of belt shifter to
                        > > put the machine in neutral.
                        > >
                        > > Anyway, I have some experience with these and I have built many a
                        > > machine including large power hammers. I am primarily a machinist and
                        > > blacksmith/artist, but ink flows in my blood too. Ask me and I'll
                        > > tell you what I can.
                        >
                      • Chad Pastotnik
                        After many years of neglect my website is now fully updated including a whole lot of new pages, images and a new shopping cart feature for the books and gift
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 22, 2006
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                          After many years of neglect my website is now fully updated including a
                          whole lot of new pages, images and a new shopping cart feature for the
                          books and gift items. As I'm on a Mac and can only test the site
                          functionality on this platform I'd like to ask any who are interested
                          or have time to check it out and maybe report any problems you might
                          have. It's all about letterpress and books so I figure the best folks
                          to check it are those who might be interested in the subject. Thanks
                          in advance,

                          Chad

                          _____________________________

                          Chad Pastotnik
                          Deep Wood Press 231.587.0506
                          http://www.deepwoodpress.com
                        • Chad Pastotnik
                          My thanks to everyone who took the time to visit the site and offer their valuable observations. It s great to have a group of keen eyed and design oriented
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 25, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            My thanks to everyone who took the time to visit the site and offer
                            their valuable observations. It's great to have a group of keen eyed
                            and design oriented folks to bounce this off of before it gets
                            announced to the world at large again.

                            Chad

                            _____________________________

                            Chad Pastotnik
                            Deep Wood Press 231.587.0506
                            http://www.deepwoodpress.com




                            On Jan 23, 2006, at 12:46 AM, Chad Pastotnik wrote:

                            > After many years of neglect my website is now fully updated including
                            > a whole lot of new pages, images and a new shopping cart feature for
                            > the books and gift items. As I'm on a Mac and can only test the site
                            > functionality on this platform I'd like to ask any who are interested
                            > or have time to check it out and maybe report any problems you might
                            > have. It's all about letterpress and books so I figure the best folks
                            > to check it are those who might be interested in the subject. Thanks
                            > in advance,
                            >
                            > Chad
                            >
                            > _____________________________
                            >
                            > Chad Pastotnik
                            > Deep Wood Press 231.587.0506
                            > http://www.deepwoodpress.com
                            >
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